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Constant Interruptions, Insults Mar First Presidential Debate; Trump, Biden Hurl Insults In First Presidential Debate; President Donald Trump Tells Far-Right Group To "Stand Back And Stand By"; President Donald Trump's Debate Performance Reflects Poor Standing With Female Voters; Joe Biden Speaks At Train Campaign Stop In Ohio. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired September 30, 2020 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Yes, both men tossed insults.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He is racist.

JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: You're the worst president the Americans ever had. Come on.

TRUMP: Did you use the word smart? So you said you went to Delaware State but forgot the name of your college.

You didn't go to Delaware State. You graduated either the lowest or almost the lowest in your class. Don't ever use the word smart with me. Don't ever use that word.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: But it was the president who from the beginning took this event off the rails refusing to abide by time limits refusing to heed the moderator's appeals for fairness and decency, refusing to let the former vice president finish most thoughts and answers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: The question is--

TRUMP: Radical left--

BIDEN: Will you shut up, man?

TRUMP: Who is on your list, Joe? This is--

CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR & DEBATE MODERATOR: Gentlemen, I think this is--

BIDEN: This is so unprecedented.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: There were many, many lows including the President of the United States telling a far right extremist group to stand back and stand by instead of condemning it. Voters looking for clarity about policy and how each candidate might plan to guide the country through national turbulence, down little, or couldn't hear it over constant cross- attacks?

They also stumbled into more fact-free claims, courtesy of the president about the security of your vote and whether you can trust the results of the election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I hope it's going to be a fair election. If it's a fair election ---

BIDEN: Fair election and what?

TRUMP: I am 100 percent onboard. But if I see tens of thousands of ballots being manipulated, I can't go along with that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Unseemly, chaotic, messy, bellicose - those just some of the unflattering words being used here in Washington in the analysis and the conversations about last night's debate. What matters more, much more, are how the event is interpreted by voters in the communities are likely to decide the election outcome?

Macomb County, Michigan is one such place, the blue-collar suburb north of Detroit carried twice by Barrack Obama, but then flipped by Donald Trump in 2016 as part of his Michigan upset. Our Senior Washington Correspondent Jeff Zeleny is in Macomb, Michigan talking to voters. Jeff, here in town, the debates, a lot of buzz, how about out in America?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: John, there is no doubt voters here in Macomb County, Michigan are talking about this debate. We are actually at the site of where people are actually voting. We do know every day now is Election Day in many parts of the country between now and November 3rd and that certainly was the case here. You can see behind me here, someone literally is casting her ballot as we see.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: Did you watch the debate last night?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I did.

ZELENY: What do you think? Who did you vote for this morning?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joe Biden.

ZELENY: OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So, John, you can see right there, live here on CNN, someone casting their vote. We've seen a steady stream of cars coming through - throughout the morning here. We have heard the words "despicable, disgusting, un-American, not appropriate for children" by supporters of both Donald Trump and Joe Biden, explaining their view of the debate last night.

But we did not hear a lot of minds changed, because of watching that debate. Take a listen to our conversation with a couple voters earlier this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROSE SINELILI, VOTED FOR TRUMP: I'm not in love with Trump, that's for sure, and some of the things he says come off as crass and crude, but I don't believe all the negative press about him either.

RAY SISUNG, VOTED FOR BIDEN: To think that my grandson had to watch the president of the United States argue, interrupt, it was despicable. It was not a debate. It was a brawl.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So partisans on both sides casting their ballots here this morning. We had conversations with many of them and it is clear that people are, A., frustrated by the tone and tenor of this debate, and B, ready for this to be over in some respects.

So John, you could not be more clear about Macomb County, it is a central part of this election. On election night we'll be watching this county, I know, you will be to see if President Trump is able to win it by as big of a margin as he did last time. He only carried the state of Michigan by some 10,704 votes.

We saw the woman behind me here, she said she voted for Joe Biden, but we did see stream of Donald Trump supporters as well. The question is, those slivers of undecided voters will they come out and won't change their minds or they'll be fed up by all of it?

One thing that was not consent to sub should there be more debates it was essentially split with the voters I talked to this morning. They said if it's like last night, probably not. John?

KING: Well, a little less than five weeks to go Jeff Zeleny already counting votes for us in Macomb County, Michigan. Jeff, I appreciate that. Keep in touch. Let's continue the conversation now joining us Julie Pace of "The Associated Press" Tarini Parti of "The Wall Street Journal" and Toluse Olorunnipa of "The Washington Post".

Julie Pace let me start with you. If you just take the fundamental dynamics, it takes a few days to sort through the polls it may take a few extra days in this case, because there is so much chaos and wreckage after last night.

But Joe Biden, we can show you some polls in the battleground states, he came in leading in Pennsylvania, leading in Wisconsin, leading even in Ohio, leading in Michigan, a very close race, a slight Biden lead maybe your statistical tie in Iowa.

So conventional wisdom tells you, you come in the front-runner, Donald Trump did not change the basic dynamic of the race.

[12:05:00]

KING: Joe Biden wins the instant polls after. Is that the right morning-after analysis?

JULIE PACE, WAHSHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, ASSOCIATED PRESS: Well, I think it is because you're right. It was Donald Trump who I think has the burden to shift the dynamic right now. He's the one who is behind in national polls. He is also behind in a lot of these battleground state polls.

And so, it was up to him to try to build his coalition, broaden it out, appeal to voters who have maybe moved away from him, to really win in independents that have really turned off by his tone in particular over the last four years?

And what you saw was him just leaning into that tone even further and using the same tactics that have really pushed voters he meets away from him. So I think it's hard to see how he actually made up ground to the exact voters, and then he needs to be trying to appeal to right now.

KING: And you could see throughout the debate Tarini, the Former Vice President, Joe Biden now the Democratic Nominee's frustration. He wanted to talk in more detail about health care. He wanted to talk in more detail about the Coronavirus. He wanted to talk in more about climate change as he tried to speak, especially when he started to criticize the president, a lot of frustration, constant interruptions. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Donald would you--

TRUMP: And you don't know her--

BIDEN: Folks you have an idea what this clown's doing? Will you shut up, man?

TRUMP: Who is you're--

BIDEN: That was really a productive segment. Wasn't it? Keep yapping, man. It's hard to get any word in with this clown - excuse me, this person.

TRUMP: Let me just say--

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Shush, clown, shut up. Never thought I'd hear any of those words spoken to the President of the United States. I'm not necessarily blaming Joe Biden, but do they worry at all about that on the Biden campaign that they got dragged into it?

TARINI PARTI, NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: Well, we know that Joe Biden had been doing intense debate prep and preparing for personal attacks from Donald Trump, preparing for Donald Trump to heckle him as we saw in the 2016 debates with Hillary Clinton. I don't think that anyone was really ready for this level of interruptions and heckling.

And I think that there is some concern that maybe it's to some voters, it seems like Joe Biden got dragged - Trump, but in that sort of situation, it would be hard not to get frustrated, and I think a lot of voters probably understood that.

We also know that heading into the debates there was a very small liberal of undecided voters and based on "Wall Street Journal's" polling only 70 percent of those surveyed, that the debates would factor into their decision-making. So a lot of polling will obviously be done in the aftermath of this debate.

But you know, it's unclear if Joe Biden actually lost any support or, you know, had any impact in the way that he spoke back to Donald Trump with those lines.

KING: You know running for president is complicated because the country has 50 states. Many of them have very different views politically. So some issues are complicated Toluse. But one that should not be is when you're the President of the United States or whether you're a plumber, in Dubuque and you get asked to condemn white supremacists, it should be a pretty easy question.

You should say, no. If you're the President of the United States, you think he would say I condemn it and I condemn any of them if they try to wear my hats or affiliate with my campaign. But the president had that chance last night; instead of condemning it clearly we got this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Say it, sir. Do it. Say it.

TRUMP: You want to call them - what do you want to call them? Give me a name, give me a name.

WALLACE: White supremacists and right-wing militia.

TRUMP: The Proud Boys? Stand back and stand by. But I tell you what, I'll tell you what, somebody's got to do something about ANTIFA and the left.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: He always tries to, somebody's got to do something about, and there are fine people on both sides. But stand back and standby is not, I condemn you and everything you stand for. TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Yes, and

if you want to understand how this was received all you have to do is, listen to how the Proud Boys group welcomed the president's comments on social media. They were talking about how this was in my pronunciation instead; it was an embrace, an endorsement of source from the highest position in the country.

And in terms of the president essentially saying that these people should be standing by and they use this and made logos and made memes on social media, saying yes, Mr. President, we're standing by.

This is a group that engaged in violence in the streets, gone out to protests with long guns, and gotten into brawls with protesters and activists on the other side of the political spectrum. The president could have tried to calm things down and said, yes, people on the left need to calm down and not riot and not get involved in violence. He says that regularly.

[12:10:00]

OLORUNNIPA: But he could also have been presidential and reined in some of his own supporters and said, listen, people who think they support me, who are embracing on the white supremacists viewed or engaging in violence, I do not want your support and I want you not be out in the streets attacking people.

Instead he said stand back and stand by and that led to a number of headlines essentially giving this group more prominence and also adding to the longest times the president has not denounced white supremacists and extremists within his base.

KING: And so, it is one of those things, Julie Pace, that makes you sort of scratch your head and wonder, shake your head and wonder. Toluse it's right. This is the president's history. The president does this routinely.

But if you accept the narrative that only thing Trump cares about is himself, he's told going into this debate, he has to improve his standing among suburban women. He must improve his standing among independence. He must try to reach the tiny slice of people out there who are either undecided or open to changing their mind.

The Republican Pollster, Frank Luntz, a veteran, he loves to run focus groups, had a group of independent voters last night that he was talking to and that answer from the president, refusing to just flat out say, I denounce the Proud Boys. I denounce white supremacists. The president wouldn't do that. And listen, it befuddled the voters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was definitely as worst moment, not a good line and bad moments. That's the easiest thing that he could do, it would be a home run.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know why he misses these layups. Why? Why is what I just kept saying after he didn't answer that question? (END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Why is a fair question but on the specifics of that bad answer and on the broader question of the president came in, knowing the two or three things he had to try to broaden his coalition, didn't go there, didn't really even try.

PACE: No, and I think those voters are quite astute in raising the right political question, which is, why does he seem incapable, particularly on this issue, on this question of condemning white supremacists? Why does he seem so incapable of doing the thing that would actually play to his political advantage?

So many of the lowest points of his presidency have come after Charlottesville for example, when he did the same thing, talked about good people on both sides of these protests, and it hurts him with again the voters that he needs.

And this has been one of the great kinds of mysteries of this presidency and you can only conclude that he either doesn't understand the politics or he actually does support these groups.

KING: Right, it is his reflex that's just clear from the history and so, one of the challenges Tarini for the president heading into this debate. He look, he is losing in the national polls on average by about eight points. I went through some of the battleground state polls at the top, not insurmountable, but with fewer than five weeks left a giant, steep hill for the president to climb.

One challenge for any incumbent is, I want four or more years because, if you elect me I will do this, Chris Wallace gave the president a couple opportunities last night to talk about in detail about policy. Here's what we got.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS HOST: My question, sir, is what is the Trump Health Care Plan?

TRUMP: Well, first of all I guess I'm debating you, not him. I'm cutting drug prices, I'm going with favored nations which no president has encouraged to do because you're going against big Pharma.

WALLACE: What will you do in the next four years to confront them?

TRUMP: I want crystal clean water and air. I want beautiful, clean air. We have now the lowest carbon. If you look at our numbers right now, we are doing phenomenally.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: You can - I can tell our viewers, whether watching in the United States or around the world; you can go online and find many, many fact checks going through what the president said there. But there was not a re-elect me and you will get this anywhere in last night's debate. PARTI: The president has now struggled for months in articulating a

clear second-term agenda. We've seen this; we saw this over and over again in interviews over the summer. In an interview with "The Wall Street Journal" our reporter asked him, if he could name one new initiative he would push for in his second term and he failed to do so.

But what the president has done in the past is he usually pivots to talking about what he thinks are his accomplishments. And last night he didn't even really do that. He talked a little bit about nominating justices to the bench, but he didn't really get into talking about trade deals or any of the other things that he usually likes to tout.

So not only did he not really talk about a second-term agenda, but he didn't really even talk as much about his accomplishments in the first term.

KING: Tarini Parti, Julie Pace and Toluse Olorunnipa grateful for the reporting and insights on this morning after. Up next for us, the president had some clear debate goals going in, especially to try to win over more suburban voters. Did he meet them? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:15:00]

KING: If you look on Twitter, you will see Team Trump says the president turned in the greatest debate performance in American history last night. Of course it was also that same Team Trump that told us he had the largest inauguration crowd in history and that same Team Trump that co-interface alternative facts.

The facts here speak for themselves, heading into the debate, Trump aids outlined two important goals, make the race less about the incumbents and more about Joe Biden and find ways to improve the president's standing with women. Well, did he accomplish either of those goals?

Republican Strategist, Alice Stewart is with us. Alice good to see you on this day my apologies for we have to interrupt Joe Biden is on the campaign trail in Ohio. If we go there live, I want to apologize in advance.

I want to read you this from Amy Walter who I know you know and respect of the political report. She tweeted last night, the reason Trump is losing women independent voters, suburban voters, is that they are exhausted by the chaos, the constant attacks and drama. He is leaning into all of that in this debate. Do you agree, number one, and does that disappoint you as a Republican?

ALICE STEWART, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, John, yes. I agree, I respect Amy a lot and I have to agree with her. Look, the women voters who are the target audience for last night and the undecided voters, a lot of them are tired with the tone and tenor of this administration and this president, and they wanted to see a little softer tone, and unfortunately, they did not get that. [12:20:00]

STEWART: I feel as though the constant interruptions and the fighting and the going against not just Joe Biden but Chris Wallace were something that was really off-putting for the voters that needed to be swayed. But the point in terms of his base, his team, and people that support him, they loved it. They loved the bull in the China shop.

They loved the fact that he took on not just Joe Biden, but Chris Wallace because they say, he's going to fight for us and jobs and the economy just like he did with them. But that is all well and good, but the goal is to broaden the base and bring in these people that have felt as though this president did not connect and that didn't happen.

I think Joe Biden did a good job with that. His ability to look directly into the camera and convey a message directly to the voters, that goes to show that he's not only trying to connect but it did convey a feeling of empathy which is what a lot of voters want, these women voters.

And he actually did great service for himself trying to communicate. And he is reinforcing that, as we call the layering of the campaign by talking about that on the debate stage and doing it today out there on the campaign trail.

KING: So you have worked in campaigns in Arkansas, in presidential campaigns. So you know how this works and you know sometimes getting the candidate to do what you think you need him or her to do can be difficult. I think especially in this case, this president has proven to be someone who does things his own way and sometimes obviously he's president and worked to his advantage in 2016.

The question is, if you look at the numbers it was a "Washington Post- ABC News Poll", among suburban women likely voters. The president is getting 34 percent one-third of the suburban women vote. Joe Biden, 66 percent. The president narrowly carried the suburbs four years ago.

The suburbs decide closed elections, presidential elections in the United States of America; here is a piece of the campaign debate last night, Joe Biden, to your point, trying to make the case when the president appeals to you in the suburbs don't listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If he ever got to run this country, and they ran it the way he would want to run it, we would have--

BIDEN: We would run it, no way.

TRUMP: Our suburbs would be gone. By the way, our suburbs would be gone and you would see problems like he never see--

BIDEN: He wouldn't know a suburb unless he took a wrong turn.

TRUMP: Well, I know suburbs so much better than-- BIDEN: I was raised in the suburbs. This is not 1950. All these dog whistles and racism don't work anymore. Suburbs are by and large integrated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: What did you make of the exchange? Especially the idea the president believes law and order helps him particularly with white suburban voters. The former vice president trying to make the case it's not the 1950s. Who won that exchange?

STEWART: I do think with regard to the president making the case that he is the candidate for law and order. He did win, in my view that exchange, because what we're seeing right now is a president who does support law enforcement, who does support law and order, who does support, supporting our police.

And then you have Joe Biden who is the face of the Democratic Party, as he said, and we have Democrat-led cities across the country that are on fire and many of them are supporting defund the police. And from the argument that a candidate who supports law and order and keeping our suburbs safe, that was a good and convincing argument.

But even more so than that, a couple of the points that the president made with regard to that, what he's going to do to help continue to turn the economy around after COVID? What he has already done with regard to the Supreme Court and issues that are certainly important to people across this country?

But also reinforcing the successes he made in the past, I wish that he would have made a little bit of a greater effort to outline not just what he has done in the past, but his vision for the future. What his plans are to improve healthcare? What his plans are to go about dealing with race relations?

Bus I am sure there will be time for that to come at the next few debates. But a little bit more emphasis on what we can do for the future would go a long way to answering a lot of those unanswered questions in these women and undecided voter's minds.

KING: They will unquestionably be time; the question is how will the president choose to use it? Will he do a repeat of last night or really listen to smart strategies like yourself? Alice Stewart grateful for your time today thank you so much.

Up next for us a COVID-19 warning out of Wisconsin. Why officials in that state now saying, it is facing a crisis heading into the fall?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:25:00]

KING: I want to take you live to Alliance, Ohio. This is the Former Vice President of the United States, the Democratic Nominee Joe Biden on a train tour from Ohio into Pennsylvania, the day after the debate. Let's listen. BIDEN: Thank you very much. The Mayor of Youngstown is here. And I

tell you what, Mr. Mayor, thanks for making the effort to be here. And Commissioner Kathleen Clay (ph) is here and Reverend Michael Harrison is also here. And thank you for joining us today.

Your collective leadership and by the way this - that are here I say salute, thank you guys. And by the way I was telling on the reason I stopped a moment ago. I've ridden a few miles on Amtrak. When I first got started in Amtrak didn't have a police department and one of the things that I try to - hard to make sure that we have Amtrak police, you do excellent job guys. You do a great job.

It's good we back in Ohio and as they're getting here in - Ohio and my favorite means of transportation. I know the fact is that, we have a - the family of this town as the spot where two rail road's intersected. That's all I got started. And can I take my mask off, I guess, I can all right.

And I just wanted to know that I appreciate the opportunity to be here and I appreciate the opportunity to move on Alliance, started as a place where people came together. And as what we so badly need to do now in this country is began again to come together.

We rode today with some remarkable Ohioans and whose families are here.