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Biden, Trump Hit Campaign Trail after Disastrous Debate; President Trump Refuses to Condemn White Supremacists; Trump Urges Supporters to Go to Polls and Watch Very Carefully. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired September 30, 2020 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:00:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN RIGHTNOW: Hi there. I'm Brianna Keilar, and I want to welcome our viewers here in the U.S. and around the world.

We begin with the fallout from the most chaotic debate in modern political history, President Trump interrupting Joe Biden and moderator Chris Wallace more than 120 times, and in doing so, derailing in a epic way the first opportunity for Americans to see and evaluate the candidates on their policies side by side.

Instead, voters suffered through 90 minutes of rancor and insults, most of it originating with the president, though Joe Biden did call him a clown. And the president so bent on not following the rules, he bulldozed through Biden's words paying tribute to his dead son.

Well, while Biden's campaign is now boasting of raising nearly $4 million in a single hour, the president's colossal on-air tantrum is prompting even his allies to say that he damaged his campaign. And as painful as the event was to listen to, what was not said on the Cleveland stage was hugely significant. Joe Biden asked if he would add justices to the Supreme Court and he would not answer the question. He said he wouldn't answer it.

Donald Trump skirted questions about his accountability for his government's failed coronavirus response, even as the death toll has soared above 200,000 in America. He wouldn't answer questions about how he will protect current covered by Obamacare if and when the Supreme Court does away with it.

But, by far, the worst moment of the worst presidential debate was a sitting American president given the opportunity to denounce white supremacists multiple times, refusing to do so, instead, issuing a call to action to right-wing extremists.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS HOST: Are you willing, tonight, to condemn white supremacists and militia groups --

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Sure.

WALLACE: -- and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities, as we saw in Kenosha and as we've in Portland? Are you prepared to specifically --

TRUMP: Sure, I'm willing to do that.

WALLACE: Go ahead, sir.

TRUMP: But I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right wing.

WALLACE: So what are you saying --

TRUMP: I'm willing to do anything. I want to see peace.

WALLACE: Then do it, sir.

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Say it. Do it. Say it.

TRUMP: You want to call them -- what do you want to call them? Give me a name.

WALLACE: White supremacists and --

TRUMP: Who would you like me to condemn?

BIDEN: Proud Boys.

WALLACE: White supremacists and white --

(CROSSTALKS)

TRUMP: Proud boys, stand back and stand by. But I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what, somebody has got to do something about Antifa and the left.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Let's go to Arlette Saenz, who is in Ohio following the Biden campaign. What is the view from there, Arlette?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, Joe Biden told me that he believes the president's performance last night was a national embarrassment. He said that he could understand why Americans would be turned off from politics after watching that debate.

But Biden noted that these attacks from the president that came his way, that he was expecting the president to launch those attacks against him and his family, but I also asked the former vice president if there are any changes he wants to see made going forward in these future debates.

He said he would like the commission come up with a way to ensure that each of the candidates has their time to speak uninterrupted. At one point, even suggesting that perhaps the president has a microphone, no else has a microphone for the two minutes he is suppose to speak and vice versa.

That is something the campaign has said that there are always continuing conversations and negotiations with the debate commission as these debates get much closer. They expect those conversations to continue.

But take a listen to a little bit more of what the former vice president had to say here in Alliance, Ohio.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: He did what I expected him to do last night. He announced what he was going to do. He announced he was going to -- I think the phrase was, now, we can become really vicious. I think that was his phrase at some point.

Look, last night reinforced my why I got in this race in the first place.

Last night was, I think, a wakeup call for all Americans. What I tried to do last night, I tried to speak directly to the camera, to the American people, to talk about their concerns, to talk about what's on their mind, to talk about what I would do as president.

Trump has no plans, no ideas, didn't express a single plan that he had about how he's going to move forward. And it made me realize that just how much is at stake.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now, Biden also sharply criticized the president's comments last night where he would not disavow white supremacists.

[13:05:05]

And Biden was asked if he had a message to the Proud Boys. Biden saying that they need to cease and desist, that things like white supremacy should not exist in this country. That has been a fundamental component of Biden's campaign since he launched.

He said that he got into this race due to those clashes in Charlottesville and the president's response. And he, once again, expressed frustration with the way that the president has handled these questions relating to white supremacists.

Now, Biden, right now, is on a train tour. They are -- I believe the train just left Alliance, Ohio. He is now making his way over to Pennsylvania, where Biden is heading directly to Trump country, visiting some counties that the president won by more than 30 points back in 2016, as he is looking to woo some of those Trump supporters back to the Democratic column in November. Brianna?

KEILAR: All right. Arlette, thank you for that report from Ohio.

And this debate is raising the question, how to handle the next one and how to stop it from going downhill. It is going to be a town hall format in Miami. It will take place Thursday, October 15th. And my next guest has a unique perspective to answer that question.

Carole Simpson moderated the first presidential town hall debate in 1992 between Bill Clinton, George W. Bush and Ross Perot. She is the first woman and the first African-American to moderate a presidential debate, and she's joining us now with her view on this.

So, Carole, I mean, you watched, it was a debacle, but it sounds like you think it was damaging enough that it's not something really worth repeating. Explain that rationale to us.

CAROLE SIMPSON, FIRST WOMAN AND AFRICAN-AMERICAN TO MODERATE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE: Well, since President Trump does not seem to be able to follow orders and follow rules, I don't expect that even in the town half, he is going to do anything any differently. I think the American people were turned off by the debate last night.

And I imagine that they'll hear, okay, here is the second debate coming up next week, I think a lot of them will say, I don't want to say that. I mean, it really was a street brawl. And if they can't get any more information out of the president than they got last night, I don't think they'll look at it. So why would the commission with it? I don't understand why they would to continue to have these debates.

I know that Trump has said he would participate and Biden said he would appreciate but they can't have a repeat of what happened last night.

KEILAR: So I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here, because, I mean, I think we know that if there is another debate, there will be people watching it, which will prove there are people, and I'm sure the ratings will go beyond just folks who are watching it from sort of a political reportorial point of view, so we know that people will be watching it, that they actually may want to see this.

Are there other ways to adjust this if you would say, give one candidate time, but make it clear that if it's not their time to speak, the mic is not on? I don't know. I wonder what you think about accommodations that have been floated.

SIMPSON: This mic control, I don't think that's going to work very well. I can see that getting all messed up too.

I had similar problems that Chris had last night, because I had three candidates. And Ross Perot, the independent candidate, would not stop talking. And I'm getting instructions in my ear, do not let him dominate the debate. So I'm going, Mr. Perot, Mr. Perot, please, Mr. Perot, we have to move on, Mr. Perot.

And then all night long, I was doing that every time he came up. And, of course, the public thought I was being rude to him. The moderator is always criticized.

And a lot of my friends who have texted me have criticized Chris, and they lost control. Why didn't he control it? He did the best he could. Chris and I were baby reporters in Chicago years ago. So I know how dogged he is as a journalist. And I think he did the best he could, a shy of climbing the stairs and grabbing them by the neck ties. I just don't see the mic turning off and the -- I don't see anything can work, really, to avoid that.

KEILAR: Okay. You don't think anything can work to avoid that. We're hearing from some Democratic allies of the former vice president who has spoken out, like Senator Amy Klobuchar, they think that this should go on.

They think that this is a good chance -- look, I think we know that when it comes to policy and substance, this was short on that, right? But when it comes to style, which seems to be what this election is about, when it comes to tone, when it comes priorities, that was revealing last night.

[13:10:08]

And so some of the vice president's allies think this should continue. What do you say to those folks who say, this is actually to his benefit?

SIMPSON: It is to his benefit, and he did talk directly to the American people looking into the camera. And he did get across some of the plans he has for the pandemic and health care and so on. So he was able to make his points.

But to have him being interrupted everything he was trying to say, it made him use words like liar and clown and fool, which I was shocked to being -- shocked to hear the president of United States being called on television, international television.

So while, yes, Biden can continue to express himself in what he plans to do, what is Trump going to do? I don't know that he is going to do anything any different. All he is is on the defensive. And he can't have an offense because, as Biden said, he has no plans. So I don't know in a short period time what he could do or what benefit it would augur to him. But, Biden, yes, he gets to make his points with interruption.

KEILAR: Yes, many interruptions. Carole Simpson, it's so great talking to you. Thanks for being with us.

SIMPSON: Thank you.

KEILAR: After the president told a far-right extremist group to stand by, they are now pledging their allegiance to him.

Plus, the president refused to tell his supporters to stay calm if the election isn't called on election night, and instead, he told them to stand watch at the polls. That is code for voter intimidation.

And how the president mocked masks again, he refused to take accountability for the failed response to the pandemic.

This is CNN's special live coverage.

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[13:15:00]

KEILAR: It seems like an easy thing to do to call out those who preach hate and incite violence. But, once again, the president of the United States flat-out refused to condemn white supremacist groups at last night's debate. Instead, he said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Who would you like me to condemn?

BIDEN: Proud Boys.

WALLACE: White supremacists and white --

(CROSSTALKS)

TRUMP: Proud boys, stand back and stand by.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Jonathan Greenblatt is the CEO and National Director of the Anti-Defamation League and CNN's Sara Sidner is here with us as well. She has done extensive reporting on the rise of far-right hate groups.

Jonathan, tell us what you know about the Proud Boys.

JONATHAN GREENBLATT, CEO AND NATIONAL DIRECTOR, ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE: The Proud Boys are a hate group through and through. They describe themselves as a pro-western fraternity.

But the reality is they traffic in misogyny, anti-Semitism, xenophobia and anti-Muslim bias. They're violent and they have been involved in many altercations and violent acts in the streets as recently as this past weekend in Portland and in Washington, D.C. And, look, more than anything, they have lengths to other white supremacists groups and the so-called alt-right.

The bottom line is that the Proud Boys don't deserve a place in the public conversations. Their kind of extremism should be rejected by elected officials at every level, level on the president of the United States.

KEILAR: And I know, Sara, you just got off the phone with one of the leaders of the Proud Boys. Tell us what that was like.

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Enrique Tarrio is their chairman, as they call him, of the Proud Boys. And he -- it is interesting when you talk to him, because you talk in circles oftentimes where they're always trying to say, we are not this, what everyone says we are. We are not violent. We only defend ourselves.

But in New York, several of their members, two of them were convicted of violence. They were convicted of attempted assault and attempted gang assault and riot. But he says, oh, the justice system is not fair and compared what happened in New York, in Manhattan, where you see a video of them beating on members of the anti-fascist movement and said, well, it's very similar to the justice system that failed Breonna Taylor.

And so this is the kind of conversations that happen when you ask them about violent acts. And you're seeing that there. Something was thrown at them and several of their members then just start piling on and beating down, kicking -- you're watching it all unfold there. He didn't condemn that violence because he said it was self-defense.

They also are very clear in saying, at this point in time, that the Proud Boys are not a white supremacist group. He wanted to make sure that that was not the label that they had. And said, look, I know that people think that our founder has said some things, but it was all in jest when he made jokes and said something about -- Gavin McInnes saying something about the ten things I hate about Jews. He said, it's all in jest.

So they won't be pinned down when you talk to them about things like anti-Semitism, about things like violence. But if you look at some of the things that have happened and you just go to the courts, the judge said, these guys are doing political violence.

And so you have two different stories, as always. They have their public face. But there are plenty of things that have shown them being -- looking for a fight.

[13:20:02]

And they show up in places like Portland. They have got their tactical gear on. They have got guns. They have got bats. They have got brass knuckles. And they are ready to rumble. But they always preface it with, oh, wait a minute, we are just defending ourselves.

KEILAR: Yes. And -- Jonathan?

GREENBLATT: Yes. I so appreciate, Sara, your continuous reporting on these issues of extremist movements, but the Proud Boys are so deeply problematic. And what we need to focus on today is not just the violence that they perpetrate and the hate that they bring, but that last night, the president of the United States, in an astonishing moment, couldn't bring himself to condemn them clearly when delivered a layup, if you will, by a moderator.

In fact, I would go so far as to say, he didn't just missed the layup, it appears that he is playing for the other team. And what I mean by that is --

KEILAR: But, Jonathan, I want to ask you what is the effect of that, of instead of taking that chance to knock them down, to say, this is unacceptable, yes, I condemn it, which is the right answer. And if that's not the answer, then there you have a characterization of what the president is doing here.

I think some of his supporters will say, no, he's sort of like -- he's denounced these groups. He hasn't. He doesn't. That's not what his language is. So, what's the effect of him doing that?

GREENBLATT: Of course, there is a clear pattern there. Go back to 2016 on the campaign when they were credentialing white supremacist media for their events to 2017 after the Unite the Right rally, where it was a huge, racist, anti-Semitic melee and a woman was killed, and he said there were fine people on both sides to just literally last night.

This isn't, if you will, an outlier. It's indication of a pattern. And it's a pattern of prejudice that doesn't belong in any political conversation, let alone coming out of the Oval Office.

So what I would say to you is the following. This wasn't an opportunity for the president to condemn. This was a clarification. He sees these groups as his allies.

And so when we at the ADL, who track extremist movements, when we say these groups feel emboldened, it's because that's what these groups are saying.

And if you look last night at social media, if you look at the accounts of the Proud Boys, which, by the way, you can't find on Facebook or Twitter because they were thrown off those platforms in 2018 and ADL helped to do that, but on other services that they used, they said, standing by, sir, they said, ready for action, Mr. President. They are ready. They saw last night as a call to arms, and that's why it should be so alarming to all of us who care about our democracy, who care about society.

KEILAR: Sara?

SIDNER: I would have just jumped in there, Jonathan, and say that the president not only failed to absolutely condemn white supremacists, he kind of egged them on in the way that he answered that question. But that is not how the Proud Boys see it. When he answered to Chris Wallace that, would he be willing to condemn white supremacists, and he said the word, sure, that was enough for them.

Now, we should also mention that why does this help him, what does this do to groups like the Proud Boys with the president putting their name out there, as well as Biden bringing it up and then the president going further and he is saying, stand back and stand by, they're selling T-shirts on Amazon right now. And I asked about that.

And you know what? They're using it for recruitment. They're using it for media attention. They are using to grow their base of people. That is what this will do, is to help grow the base of people that are involved in this particular group.

GREENBLATT: And let's remember the context, like 2019, the ADL tracked more anti-Semitic incidents than at any time in our history, more than 40 years. This summer, we had racism in the streets. It's deeply frightening that in this time the president would forget. He didn't fail to condemn (ph). He clarified he sees them as allies. Again, that should alarm everyone of us.

KEILAR: Yes, it is alarming. All right, Sara, Jonathan, I really appreciate the conversation. Thank you to you both.

SIDNER: Sure.

KEILAR: The president refusing to pledge to accept results of the election, and suggesting that his voters intimidate people at the polls.

Plus, the question that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris both refused to answer about the future of the Supreme Court.

And we'll do a reality check on the president's claim that his crowded rallies have not had a negative impact on people's health.

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[13:25:00]

KEILAR: As he tossed out a barrage of baseless claims on the debate stage, President Trump included a favorite refrain, claiming the upcoming election is rigged and rife with fraud. That is a lie. The president also called on supporters to back him up in person at the polls.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I am urging my supporters to go in to the polls and watch very carefully because that's what has to happen. I am urging them to do it.

As you know, today, there was a big problem. In Philadelphia, they went in to watch.

[13:30:01]

They were called poll watchers. They're very safe, very nice thing. They were thrown out. They weren't allowed to watch? You know why?