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Trump Contradicts Experts On When Vaccine Will Be Available; Trump Claims He's Paid "Millions" In Taxes Amid NYT Report Suggesting He Paid No Income Taxes For At Least 10 Years; Moderator To Trump: Where Is Your Health Care Plan?; Trump Speaks About Disastrous Debate Ahead Of MN Trip. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired September 30, 2020 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS WALLACE, DEBATE MODERATOR & FOX NEWS ANCHOR: He talked about the summer, sir, before it's generally available.
(CROSSTALK)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He said it's a possibility we'll have the answer before November 1st.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: I want to bring in CNN Medical Analyst, Dr. Leana Wen. She formerly served as Baltimore's health commissioner. She's is currently an emergency room physician at George Washington University.
So first, Doctor, what are the chances we are going to have an answer, to the words the president used, on a coronavirus vaccine before November 3rd?
DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Extremely low. I think what President Trump may be referring to is this answer is this idea of emergency-use authorization for people like health care workers, frontline employees, those the most vulnerable.
Even that, for it to become before Election Day is extremely low. I would image a better timeline, a more realistic timeline would be beginning of next year.
After which, there's a very lone process of manufacturing hundreds of millions of doses of the vaccine, distributing it, especially because the initial vaccine probably will require two doses. Imagine giving that to hundreds of millions of Americans.
I think a much more realistic timeline is looking into made to mid to late next year for distribution.
Also, we have to take into account that, right now, the studies don't involve children. So before our kids can get the vaccine, there also needs to be testing for kids and that's going to extend the timeline even further.
KEILAR: The president, we watch him, he's making his campaign all about a vaccine for coronavirus. And we see him throwing his own experts under the bus.
But I wonder what that means for what should really matter here, which is the vaccine. Not whether the president wins, but whether people when there is, if there is a vaccine, will be confident that they can take it safely.
WEN: That's right, Brianna. For a vaccine to be lifesaving, it needs to be safe and effective but also trusted. People need to have trust and need to understand that it's science driving the process and not political pressure and manipulation.
And on top of that, there are things we can do before the vaccine arrives, and even after it arrives. Because it's going to take so many months before we can come close to reaching herd immunity, we're still going to keep up these same measures.
This is a time for us to double down on wearing masks, practicing social distancing, avoiding crowds, all these life-saving public health measures that I wish all of our elected officials, including President Trump, can also champion.
KEILAR: I wonder, for you, seeing what the contents of this debate were, if there was anything you took away from it, as a medical professional, feeling like either the government has a plan moving forward or if the former Vice President Joe Biden has a plan.
Were you able to discern that from this?
WEN: I definitely could not tell whether President Trump has a plan, because we haven't seen it in all these months he's been the president.
There have been pieces of a plan. For example, there was a plan on reopening safely that the White House's own Coronavirus Task Force put out. But we didn't follow that plan and, in fact, we openly disregarded guidelines. We still don't have a national testing strategy.
Vice President Biden does have a plan that he's outlined. My concern is how he's going to bring together, how anyone could bring together the American people at this time that's so divided.
But I think it begins with having some kind of national strategy because this piece-meal approach is not working and it's only costing lives.
KEILAR: Many lives.
Dr. Wen, thank you so much for being with us.
[14:33:37] Still ahead, President Trump trying to claim he's paid millions in income taxes, despite a "New York Times" investigation that details how he paid virtually nothing for much more than a decade. I'm going to speak to an investigative reporter who has been studying Trump's finances for years.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:38:32]
KEILAR: President Trump is insisting he paid millions in income taxes, despite a detailed report and well sourced report in "The New York Times" that found he only paid $750 in federal income tax in 2016 and 2017 and not a penny for 10 of the 15 years before that.
Here's what he said about this in the debate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I've paid millions of dollars in taxes, millions of dollars of income tax.
And let me tell you, there was a story in one of the papers I paid --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: -- I paid $38 million one year. I paid $27 million one year.
(CROSSTALK)
JOE BIDEN (D), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Let's see your tax returns.
TRUMP: I went -- you'll see it. As soon as it's finished, you'll see it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: The president has refused to release his tax returns for years. He claims he cannot do so until his IRS audit is complete.
That's a lie. Nothing prevents a person being audited by the IRS them from releasing their returns publicly.
David Cay Johnston is an investigative reporter and author of "The Making of Donald Trump" and "It's Even Worse Than You Think, What the Trump Administration is Doing to America."
David, the president's wording about his taxes was extremely vague. How telling is that to you?
DAVID CAY JOHNSTON, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER & AUTHOR: That's how Donald does everything. It's extremely strong, it very good, it's very bad.
Donald -- yes, he's paid millions of dollars in taxes. But consider the $38 million figure he mentioned, which is from my report at "DCReport," about his 2005 tax return that I have at my house.
He paid, in regular income tax, $3.5 million -- or $5 million, I'm sorry, on over $150 million of income.
[14:40:09]
And the rest of it, he paid $30-some million with something called alternative minimum tax. That's what he got back in the refund and what the audit is about, whether he improperly got that back in the refund case.
And the regular income he paid was at a lower rate, less than 3.5 percent than the rate paid by the poorest half of American taxpayers. Not the poorest Americans, the poorest half of taxpayers. The paid more than 3.5 percent and their average income was only $16,000.
KEILAR: He'll say he's been smart about it. His main defense is everything he's done has been legal. So let's listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I don't want to pay tax. Before I came here, I was a private developer. I was a private business people. Like every other private person, unless they're stupid, they go through the laws and that's what it is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: A lot of stupid people out there paying their taxes.
JOHNSTON: Not only that, Donald Trump cheated on his taxes. We have two courts that ruled on this. He was tried civilly for tax fraud twice. He lost both cases.
His only witness in one of the cases was his own long-time tax lawyer and accountant, who testified the tax return the government had was a forgery. He said my signature's on that return but I didn't prepare that return.
And Trump concocted out of thin air $600,000-plus of deductions. No receipts, no records. He just made it up.
KEILAR: Obviously, not legal.
David Cay Johnston, we appreciate your insight.
JOHNSTON: Take care.
KEILAR: The week after the election, the Trump administration will argue in front of the Supreme Court to try down strike down Obamacare. But when pressed, President Trump still couldn't explain what his replacement would be. We'll have details on what that means for you, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:46:08]
KEILAR: The very first question of the presidential debate was about the Supreme Court vacancy but it quickly descended into a clash over Trump's efforts to overturn the Affordable Care Act in the high court.
As far back as 2015, then-Candidate Trump claimed he would not only overturn the law but he would quickly replace it with his own plan.
That plan repeatedly has not materialized. The president promising to reveal it, quote, "soon," for years.
He even says it's ready now but the administration has provided no proof that a comprehensive Trump health care plan exists. And people are already voting.
Moderator Chris Wallace reminding Trump he has failed to make good on that promise.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: You have never in these four years come up with a plan, a comprehensive plan --
TRUMP: Of course, I have.
WALLACE: -- to replace Obamacare.
TRUMP: Of course I have.
WALLACE: Well --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: I got rid of the individual mandate --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Excuse me. I got rid of the individual mandate, which was a big chunk of --
(CROSSTALK)
WALLACE: But that's not a comprehensive plan.
TRUMP: That was absolutely a big thing.
(CROSSTALK)
That was the worst part of Obamacare.
(CROSSTALK)
WALLACE: Sir --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Chris, that was the worst part of Obamacare.
WALLACE: Sir, let me ask my question.
TRUMP: Well, I'll ask Joe.
WALLACE: No --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: The individual mandate was the most unpopular aspect
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: -- of Obamacare. I got rid of it.
(CROSSTALK)
BIDEN: There are 20 million people getting health care through Obamacare now that he wants to take it away. He won't ever look you in the eye and say that's what he wants to do. Take it away.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: No. I want to give them better health care --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: -- at a much lower price.
(CROSSTALK)
BIDEN: -- because he doesn't know how -- he doesn't know how to do it.
TRUMP: I already fixed it.
BIDEN: He has never offered a plan.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: I already fixed it to an extent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Julie Rovner is the chief Washington correspondent for "Kaiser Health News."
And, Julie, you're always wonderful in helping us know exactly what's going on with health care. He said it's already fixed.
JULIE ROVNER, CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, "KAISER HEALTH NEWS": The president did put out what the administration is calling his health care plan last week.
It's a bunch of press releases and a list of some small things that he's already done. There was not much forward looking in that plan. The president likes to say that Obamacare is dead because the penalty
for not having insurance is gone. Although the health insurance exchanges are getting along surprisingly well without that penalty.
KEILAR: That's right. There's a lot of people who are on there.
I wonder, if the Supreme Court hears the Trump administration case, there could be a new justice by then. So, we could see the ACA entirely struck down.
What happens for real people who have health insurance and coverage through Obamacare, what happens if it goes away?
ROVNER: It would be an enormous mess. And not just for the 20 million who directly get it through the exchanges or expansion through the Medicaid program. It's basically everyone who uses health care in this country.
It was a huge sweeping law. There was not a ton of concern among legal experts, as of a couple of weeks ago about this case, because it's not considered very strong.
And they assume Chief Justice Roberts would vote with the liberals because he's voted to uphold the law twice.
But if there's a new conservative justice, even if Chief Justice Roberts votes with the liberals, there could be five votes to strike down the entire law.
So it may not be as immediate as some of the Democrats are making it out to be but it is a live possibility.
KEILAR: Julie, we know you will be watching very intently here in the next month or so to see what's going on.
Julie Rovner, as always, thank you.
ROVNER: Thank you.
[14:49:37]
KEILAR: Any moment, we're going to hear from the president for the first time since the debate. This, as Joe Biden called the debate performance a national embarrassment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I have every --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Excuse me. Portland, the sheriff just came out today and he said I support President Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Literally never happened. The sheriff of the county that covers Portland, Mike Reese, is not on record having ever said he supported the president.
And he responded on Twitter saying, quote, "I have never supported Donald Trump and never will."
Portland has seen regular protests against police brutality and racial injustice since the killing of George Floyd and has become a target of Trump's hardline message on law and order.
We have breaking news this hour that we're following. And confirmation of how the coronavirus is shaping everything.
The NFL announcing that it will postpone the Sunday contest between the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Tennessee Titans. This comes after at least four Titans players tested positive for COVID-19, including a starting offensive lineman.
The NFLs says it will share details next week when it plans to reschedule the game.
And President Trump spoke to reporters about the disastrous debate where he failed to condemn white supremacists. We're going to bring that to you as soon as we have it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: I thought that was great. We've gotten tremendous reviews of it. We're hitting what people want, law and order, which Biden was unable to talk about because he'd lose the radical left, his radical left followers. I don't think there's too many of them left.
But I thought it was a great evening. It was an exciting evening. I see the ratings were very high. And it was good to be there. Felt very comfortable. And I appreciate all of the good words.
So we are going now and we're going to have a big rally. A lot of people showing up.
Yes?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mr. President -- (INAUDIBLE) -- the Proud Boys to stand by?
TRUMP: I don't know who the Proud Boys are. You have to give me a definition because I don't really know who they are.
I can only say they have to stand down and let law enforcement do their work. Law enforcement will do the work, more and more as people said how bad this radical liberal democratic movement it and how weak. The law enforcement is going to come back stronger and stronger.
But again, I don't know who Proud Boys are. But whoever they are, they have to stand down and let law enforcement do their work.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mr. President -- (INAUDIBLE) -- stand by -- (INAUDIBLE)
TRUMP: Just stand by. Look, law enforcement will do their work. They have to stand down. Everybody, they have to stand down. Whatever group you're talking about. Let law enforcement do the work.
Now Antifa is a real problem. Because the problem is on the left. And Biden refuses to talk about it. He refuses to issue the words law and order. You saw that last night when he choked up.
[14:55:06]
He can't say the words because he'll lose the rest of the left. So he's got to condemn Antifa. Antifa is a very bad group.
Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mr. President, white supremacists clearly love you and support you. You welcome that.
TRUMP: I want law and order to be a very important part of my campaign. And when I say that, what I'm talking about is law enforcement, police, have to take care.
And they should stop defunding the police like they've done in New York.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: But white supremacist --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Like they've done in New York. I just told you.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: But do you denounce them? Do you denounce them?
TRUMP: I've always denounced any form, any form --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: -- any form of any of that. You have to denounce it.
But I also -- Joe Biden has to say something about Antifa. It is not a philosophy. These are people that hit people over the head with baseball bats.
He's got to come out and he's got to be strong and he's got to condemn Antifa. And it is very important that he does.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Can I follow up about Joe Biden? (CROSSTALK)
Mr. President -- (INAUDIBLE)
TRUMP: I can't hear a word you're saying. I can't hear.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)
TRUMP: I hear he doesn't want to go forward but that is up to him. I mean --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What about you?
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Yes. I would like to. By every measure, we won the debate last night.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: He was very weak. He looked weak. He was whining.
Yes, we won the debate by almost every poll that I saw. If you look at the -- the various polls. I looked at about six of them and we won every one of them, so.
No, I don't mind debating him. I hear he wants to get out of the debates. I don't know. That is up to him.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Why are you afraid of the -- (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) Does that concern you they go out there with their weapons and walk around --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Yes, it does concern me. And crime generally concerns me. Any form of crime. And let law enforcement take care of it.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mr. President, are you afraid --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Why are you afraid --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: So we have a problem in New York. They have 100,000 ballots that are a mess. They are all confused and mixed up. And now they're going to redo them.
What are they going to do with the 100,000 ballots already sent? This is what I'm talking about. It is a big, big, big-scale problem.
And 100,000 ballots went out to New York with the wrong names and wrong envelopes, wrong addresses and wrong everything.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: And now they want to redo the ballots. That doesn't help. What about the ones that are already sent?
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: This is exactly what I'm talking about.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Can I follow up to that, Mr. President. (INAUDIBLE) -- from the 20th of January?
TRUMP: There won't be. There won't be.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sir, what if there is -- (INAUDIBLE)
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: All right, everyone, thanks for joining us. I'm Kate Bolduan. We're picking up here.
As you're listening, Donald Trump leaving the Oval Office. He's heading off on Marine One. This was just moments ago. We're watching this tape come in for the first time and watching it coming together.
And the president addressing the issue that he must, which is his refusal last night to condemn white supremacy when he was handed very easily the opportunity to do so.
Pressed several times about it today, he said he doesn't know who the Proud Boys are, despite the fact that he's had at least 15 hours to figure that out.
But then saying that he does denounce all forms of any of that, referring to white supremacy.
Let me get over to CNN's Kaitlan Collins. She's at the White House. She's been watching all of this.
Kaitlan --
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Kate.
BOLDUAN: -- the president today and that is his response.
COLLINS: Yes, and it took him this long to come up with that. saying he doesn't know who the Proud Boys are and that he wants them to stand down.
Part of what he said last night but what people took issue with is how he said to "stand" by last night.
This is something that the White House immediately getting questions about, including campaign aides as they were getting on Air Force One to leave Cleveland last night.
And then, of course, you saw several spokespeople asked about it today. They didn't feel like it was anything that the president needed to clarify.
And he came out today and was pressed by reporters on this. And he was trying to clean up his remarks from last night during the debate where he refused to explicitly condemn this group after saying that he would condemn the groups.
And then you saw how that moment played out, one of the main takeaways from the debate last night.
Now the president said he does not know who this far right group that has endorsed violence is. Of course, we have seen several members of them at the president's rallies. We've reported on that here at CNN in the past.
But the president does appear to be trying to clean up his remarks from that debate last night. It almost seems inevitable, Kate.
[15:00:00]
But then he took a turn and pivoted to Joe Biden, talking about what Joe Biden has and hasn't said about Antifa. Similar to the way that you saw the president do so on the debate stage last night.
