Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

President Trump and First Lady Test Positive for COVID, Barron Negative; Coronavirus Trends Moving in Wrong Direction Amid Trump Diagnosis; Top White House Staffers Mark Meadows, Dan Scavino Test Negative. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired October 02, 2020 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): To know whether we have to be in a situation to think about alternatives.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Sen. Chris Murphy, thanks so much for joining us this morning.

MURPHY: Thanks, Jim.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And thanks all of you for being with us today. Obviously a very consequential one. We will be on this around the clock. We'll see you back here on Monday. I'm Poppy Harlow.

SCIUTTO: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

NEWSROOM with John King starts right now.

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everybody. I'm John King in Washington. Thank you so much for sharing this stunning day with us.

The president of the United States is in quarantine, infected with the coronavirus. The first lady infected, too, and at least one of the president's most senior aides. We learned this overnight, and we are digesting it now 32 days before Election Day.

The questions are many about the operations of the government and the impact on the campaign. The White House doctor says the president and the first lady are well and will remain at home during their convalescence. A White House official telling us the president is experiencing mild symptoms, something echoed just moments ago by the White House chief of staff.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK MEADOWS, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: The president and the first lady tested positive for COVID-19. They remain in good spirits. The president does have mild symptoms.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: The chief of staff there also saying don't be surprised if there are more positives in the West Wing and there is now a massive contact tracing operation underway. Top West Wing aides and cabinet members who have been in close contact with the president and first lady and White House Counselor Hope Hicks in recent days.

Trump campaign officials too, members of Congress, Secret Service, military aides and more. The Vice President Mike Pence reports a negative test this morning. Democrat Joe Biden is also getting tested this morning. Remember, he was on a debate stage with the president Tuesday night, and it is quite possible the president was already infected and perhaps contagious then. The former vice president, Mr. Biden scheduled to campaign in Grand Rapids, Michigan later today.

World leaders are sending messages of support to the president and to the first lady. Global markets are tumbling. It is no secret the president for months has ignored his own team's coronavirus safety guidelines, mocking mask use and insisting on holding crowded political rallies. His debate prep sessions early this week were no exception.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR: No one was wearing masks in the room when we were prepping the president during that period of time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: The president revealed his diagnosis on Twitter shortly before is 1:00 a.m., hours after it had been reported that had his top aide Hicks had tested positive. Hicks traveled to Minnesota with the president on Wednesday. Thursday morning, she tested positive.

Yet hours later, the president was on Air Force One headed to New Jersey for a fundraiser. That ignores White House guidelines that recommend quarantine after potential exposure. Again, the timing here only adds to the crisis atmosphere. The public get wells and words of support from leading Republicans today, masks private worries that the president testing positive is damning development in a campaign to find by his mismanagement of this pandemic.

It is indisputable that the coronavirus statistics right now are heading the wrong direction. Cases are climbing in half the country. The daily new case number on Thursday, 43,000 plus new infections. The president of the United States now part of the data he repeatedly tells you to ignore.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I just want to say that the end of the pandemic is in sight and next year will be one of the greatest years in the history our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Let's get straight to CNN medical correspondent, chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay, it is just stunning news. The president of the United States now in quarantine. The White House doctor using the term convalescence. There are a lot of things we don't know. From what we do know so far, what's the biggest takeaway?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know now it wasn't in the official summary that the president does have mild symptoms, and that is -- that is important, you know. One of the reasons is that it gives some indication of, you know, how serious this may be. And as you pointed out and as Mark Meadows correctly pointed out statistically the odds are very much on the president's side.

You know, if you look overall because of his age, because of his pre- existing conditions, he is at increased risk. He still has a greater than 90 percent, 95 percent chance of -- of doing fine with this coming through this particular illness.

Now, I think the idea of what to do about it if the president starts to become worse. That's got to be a decision point that I'm sure the doctors and medical teams are sort of considering now. If he starts to have trouble with breathing or oxygenation, what are the triggers for those sorts of things and how long should this isolation last?

As you know typically, John, 14 days. But I think those are some of the questions I'm sure swirling around. John, you know that in the days before someone becomes symptomatic, that is when they are most contagious. And just remember that.

[11:05:05]

So, if the president became symptomatic on Thursday, go back two or three days, that's probably the time when someone is the most symptomatic. If Hope Hicks became symptomatic on Wednesday, go back to Sunday now, you can get an idea of how laborious this contact tracing process will be, and that's ongoing, John.

KING: Right. And so, we're trying to get information, and we need to piece together much more of the timeline you just said. Dr. Scott Atlas, who's a member of the president's Coronavirus Task Force, telling Fox News earlier today, he says there's absolutely zero reason to panic. He says it's no surprise that people get the infection even with precautions. I anticipate a complete and full recovery back to normal, anticipated be back in the road in full swing.

Let's hope that's correct. Let's hope that Dr. Atlas is right about the president. But to the challenge you mentioned here, we don't know, people here in the news, you know Hope Hicks tested positive and hours later, the president tests positive and I think Hicks gave it to the president. We don't know that because of what you were just talking about.

The president was doing debate prep. So, he's in a room with a bunch of people. We know he routinely has discouraged the use of masks in the West Wing. We know he's been traveling for campaigns. How complicated of an effort is it?

He met with the Treasury secretary. He's met with the vice president. He's met with his Supreme Court pick. I just mentioned three people, the vice president, Amy Coney Barrett the judge, and the Treasury secretary. They all say they've tested negative this morning but explain, Sanjay, how important it is that that test today or yesterday might not matter. How long do these officials have to keep checking to make sure?

GUPTA: Yes. No, this is a very fundamental point, so if you've had contact, if you've been in close contact with someone with COVID. Typically unmasked within six feet for longer than 15 minutes, that's the sort of general guidelines. If you've had that kind of contact, you need to quarantine yourself, right?

People know that, but that's - that's regardless of what a test may show because you could be testing negative for several days after that exposure and then all of a sudden day five, day six and up to day 14, as you know, John, you could suddenly test positive. That's why you have to go into quarantine after that sort of exposure.

So, the testing is important. I don't want to minimize the role of testing. It's very important. But it's not a get out of the quarantine free sort of card here because you have to assume that you've had this exposure and there's a certain incubation time, that's, you know, up to 14 days. So, that's going to be critical.

They're going to have to figure out what - how close were these contacts. If you're on a helicopter with people, if you're on a closed room or small room like Governor Christie was describing, nobody masked, you know, smaller room in the White House, may not have great ventilation. That's a real concern. And those people really need to be monitored and testing is great, again, but it doesn't mean that you -- that you shouldn't be quarantined at this point.

KING: And, again, it's important for us to take the time to do the reporting, to try to address many of the questions we have about the timeline and tick talking who may have given the infection to whom. That is critical. But we do know, Sanjay, we do know for months that the president and many of those around him have brushed aside the White House task force own rules about how you should be conducting yourself about whether you should be in large groups.

Even I believe we have some video. We even saw at the debate the other night that the Biden team was on one side of the hall, they were all wearing masks and you see on the right side of the screen there, that's a woman from the Cleveland Clinic in the a lab coat there coming up and approaching members of the Trump team asking them if they would like a mask. You had members of the president's party including the president's family sitting there without mask.

And again, if you look to the left of your screen, the Biden team was wearing masks. And then after this debate, the president's son went on television with Sean Hannity. Let's listen to a little bit of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: Joining us now to respond, President Trump's son, Donald Trump, Jr. You know we both have been called to test --

DONALD TRUMP, JR., PRESIDENT TRUMP'S SON: We've been tested. I don't want to get you know they'll throw us in gulag --

HANNITY: Oh, yes. Where's my mask?

TRUMP, JR.: -- for being really close.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: He says I was tested. I want to make it clear, so I don't get thrown in the gulag. Just the way -- the dismissive way about this, the dismissive way about this. Again, if he have been tested that day, let's hope his test tomorrow, the next day -- next week and forever are negative, but they throw that word out all the time. They'd say this at the White House all the time. He's the most tested man in America, therefore, he can be in close contact with people. It doesn't work that way, right?

GUPTA: No, it does not work that way. First all, testing doesn't prevent you from getting infected. Unfortunately, it's testing, as we look at the White House's sort of protocols. It's really their only COVID security because they are not focusing on physical distancing. They're not focusing on wearing masks, obviously.

The testing is just going to tell you after the fact. You know, they are very jokey about it, you know, the idea that somebody could test negative in the morning and then still test positive later on that same day, having been some source of significant spread of the virus throughout that entire day, maybe even before that.

[11:10:01]

You could even be contagious, you know, again, the few days before you start to develop symptoms. So, it's really concerning, you know, in an indoor environment like that sitting next to somebody for a long period of time, not wearing a mask. I mean, that's the exact concern. If you look at the then-diagram of the hottest sort of spot in terms of trying to figure out what is going to be the riskiest, it's exactly that, unmasked, indoors, long duration. And that's what was going on there.

KING: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, our chief medical correspondent, grateful for the time and the insights. Sanjay, thank you so much.

Let's continue this important conversation with Seung Min Kim of the "The Washington Post," Toluse Olorunnipa also from "The Washington Post."

Toluse, let me start with you about what we don't know and how we try to get it. And I was struck especially when Mark Meadows, the White House chief of staff, came out to the White House driveway with a serious tone he was taking, we're all in this fight together. This reminds us this virus can get to anybody. That is not the tone the president has taken in recent weeks and indeed months.

The question now and one of the reasons there are so many questions is that this is a White House that's not known for its transparency. What is missing from the accounts they have given us so far? TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: John, you mentioned the tone. The tone has been set by the president. The tone for how to respond to this coronavirus has been set from the top, from the president. He has wanted to put a positive spin on this from the very beginning. He said I wanted to downplay this.

And that's also what we're seeing as the president has been diagnosed with this virus. So, they are continuing to downplay this. They are saying that everything is moving full steam ahead, that the president is doing well and that he only has mild symptoms and that he's feeling fine and he's going to continue to carry out the prospects of his office.

Now, we don't know what symptoms he has, the mild symptoms that they are talking about. They haven't outlined exactly what they were. We still don't know exactly when the president contracted this virus. We don't know how many people in the White House have been infected.

And when it comes to transparency, we didn't find out this information originally from the White House. We found out about Hope Hicks after a media reported that she had tested positive. Even some people within the White House didn't know until the media report it.

So, there's a lot of room to grow when this comes to transparency from this administration or from this White House. There are a lot of questions that still need to be answers, especially about the president's health, about the continuity of government. We still need to learn exactly what's happening behind closed doors so the American people can have confidence this close to an election in what their government is doing and in what the government is telling them about the virus.

KING: And to that point, Seung Min, the president of the United States is now in quarantine. This is the letter the doctor released through the press secretary and used the term convalescence. This was the first hint that we had that the president had symptoms, using the word convalescence, not just in the quarantine out of precaution. But it was Mark Meadows came out to the White House driveway, you know, for a few minutes and good for him for giving some update on the president's condition but it's the president's doctor.

Do we have any indication that the White House is willing to put the president's doctor forward to walk us through what do we mean my mild symptoms? What do they know about how and when the president might have contracted this? How do they explain, for example, why the president got on that helicopter and went to New Jersey yesterday after being told Hope Hicks had tested positive?

SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: There's no indication about what more information, what more administration officials will be briefing the media and the public on the latest situation at the White House. The chief of staff did indicate that he would be giving, or others would be giving more regular updates but not necessarily from the president's doctor just yet.

But you're making so many good points here, John. I mean, we are -- the biggest question mark I have is why was the president was allowed to go to Bedminster around the time that Meadows himself confirmed that several White House officials learned about Hope Hicks' diagnosis? Meadows said that's even the reason why some several officials were pulled off the trip but question is why wasn't the trip cancelled all together because we don't know the extent of the spread of the White House. We don't know when the president contracted it and from whom.

And also, this has significant implications for the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue. There is constant communication, constant movement even right now in the time of coronavirus between the White House and Capitol Hill. You know that Secretary Mnuchin, Chief of Staff Mark Meadows have been speaking and communicating with Speaker Pelosi over these stalled what on again, off again coronavirus reports.

Obviously, Judge Amy Coney Barrett who the White House says has tested negative this morning for the virus. Her and top White House officials -- top White House officials have met with some three dozen senators already on Capitol Hill this week. So, there are a lot of questions that need to be answered in the coming hours and days.

KING: And as you try to put this together, Toluse, Chris Christie was on ABC this morning, the former governor of New Jersey who was part of the debate prep for the president, he says during those debate prep sessions, everybody is you know obviously in a room, they are in close quarters. He said nobody was wearing a mask. We do know.

[11:15:00]

And I think we have some pictures of Hope Hicks going on Air Force One the other day. They were on their way to the president's rally in Minnesota. She went out to -- first to Marine One at the White House. Then she was on Air Force One with the president. We are told those were actually that later that night at the rally she began to feel some symptoms, she felt achy and the like. I've been inside Marine One and I can show you some pictures here from the Obama administration about how close the quarters are.

These are White House photo released back during the Obama days. Do you see it there? You see how closely packed that is. That's President Obama on those days with his top aide Valerie Jarrett, his Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel and Illinois congressman and senator on the helicopter there. But we show you that just to show you the close quarters.

The White House has a lot of - a lot still to fill in, in terms of how many people are around the president? What is the contact tracing operation? They say it's under way, but we don't have any of the details. We do know, Toluse, that the White House has told people if you are among those people, a telecommuting, telework is now back and you can work from home, if you believe you were in contact.

OLORUNNIPA: Yes, the White House has a pretty big task on its hands. They need to contact trace potentially dozens or hundreds of people who have been in contact not only with the president, but with his inner circle of people who have been close to Hope Hicks.

They have a large number of people, because the president has been going into crowds unlike his rival, unlike what public health guidelines say you should not be going into crowds and holding massive events the way the president is doing.

So, they need to contact a lot of those people who have been in touch with the president. We know that the president, we know the White House officials have not been wearing masks. We know that even the idea of getting your temperature check before you go into the White House that was in place earlier in the spring. I would go into the White House and get my temperature checked, that doesn't happen anymore.

So, they have relaxed their standards and their guidelines and they have made it seem like this virus is just going away and disappearing and it's not something they need to take control of and now we see that it has infected the Oval Office. So, the White House has a lot of work to do to try to get a sense of how widespread this is. We did see Mark Meadows, the Chief of Staff speaking without a mask, so there's still a lot of work to do in terms of actually following their own guidelines.

But it's clear that this is hit home for a lot of people close to the president that if they can't protect the chief - the commander in chief, if they can't protect his closest advisers and how are they are going be able to message the American people that this is all under control on the president's doing a good job?

So, they have a pretty big public relations task and a pretty big public health task, and it seems like they are paddling upstream on that right now.

KING: It is a difficult challenge for them, because we certainly wish the president a speedy recovery, the first lady as well and Hope Hicks. But the president's behavior in recent days and weeks has been directly contrary to the advice given to him by his own White House Coronavirus Task Force. Toluse Olorunnipa and Seung Min Kim, I appreciate the reporting and the insights.

When we come back, we can have an inside look at how a White House physician deals with the president who is ill. First though the House Speaker Nancy Pelosi reacting a bit earlier today to the diagnosis positive coronavirus test for the president and the first lady.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Very early this morning, the news came that the president and the first lady had tested positive for the virus. I pray for them all the time including last night, so this was just a continuation of more prayers for their safety and their health and wellbeing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [11:22:40]

KING: The White House is on edge today and the world is watching confirmation the president is positive for COVID-19, this dramatic news itself. The timing adds to the anxiety and the uncertainty. It is a month to the election and the coronavirus case count in the country is headed in the wrong direction right now.

So how does the White House handle a crisis that involves the president's health? With me now two people who've worked in the West Wing. Former presidential adviser to Presidents Nixon, Ford, Reagan and Clinton David Gergen and former White House Physician Dr. William Lang.

Dr. Lang, I want to begin with you because I'm trying to understand, and I think viewers around the world would like to know what are the protocols in the White House? You have a president, his chief of staff says, he has mild symptoms. He is 74 years old. He is overweight and he has a history of some mild heart issues in the past, very mild.

There's no reason to believe based on what we know, we do know the president's vigorous that he won't be fine. But how do you draw the line as the White House position of can we handle this in the house, or should we get the president somewhere else where he has better care?

DR. WILLIAM LANG, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PHYSICIAN: Well, the first thing is we treat the president as a patient, that's one of the first things we teach new White House docs coming in, is you've got to keep track of what you're doing.

You're taking care of a person. So how do you take care of the president as a person? You apply the same rules, the same medical guidelines we apply to anybody else. But of course, he is the president. So, you have to start thinking about where is the best place to take care of him? What do you need to do to take care of him most effectively and efficiently?

And you've got to remember that you can bring lots and lots of equipment, if you ever needed it not to say that we do need it, not to say that we expect we would need it. But you need to bring lots of -- you can bring the equipment and the personnel you need to the White House. So the question of when would you go to the next level of care which would be to Walter Reed would be if you feel like you need a support that is just safer done in a medical environment.

That's something that with this disease, it doesn't happen at the moment's notice. It's something that would evolve as we'd be able to put that going forward. So, it's not something that is -- we will always have to think about what's the next step, but it's something that we could evolve into if it was needed.

KING: David Gergen four presidents have called on you in times of crisis. We're 32 days from the election. The defining issue in the campaign is the Coronavirus pandemic, and we learned overnight the president of the United States who has kind of dismissed the seriousness of this pandemic, who has mocked mask use as recently as the debate Tuesday night has COVID-19.

[11:25:07]

What would your advice be to the president at this moment about how to handle this?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Remember history for 70 years John, there's been an overwhelming focus and the White House when president gets sick or shot, to find the best physicians in the country to bring those people to the White House to make sure that president gets the best analysis available. And then to be transparent.

When I had - President Eisenhower had a heart attack, he got wonderful physicians and they talked about it. They talked publicly to the press and huge details so much so that I was never quite uncomfortable with it.

And Nelson Johnson had heart problems, they did it well.

When Ronald Reagan got shot the best physicians came out and they not only saw Reagan, but they get regular reports to the country that calms people down.

And lets people adjust to the new situation, it protects everybody's interest, especially it protects the health of the president in which we're you know afraid about now. But it also gives confidence to the country. They were not being bamboozled. Give it to us straight and then we can figure out. Of course, in the case pandemic White House's been anything but straight in recent months.

KING: So, Dr. Lang what are the protocols, I assume it is the Chief of Staff or the president himself who makes the call about what to tell the American people. Is there a playbook for the White House doctors that talks about the public's need to know? Or is it you provide the care and then pass the information up the chain of command? But they make the decisions about what we are told.

LANG: Well that's right. HIPAA applies to the president just like it applies to anybody else. But as Mr. Gergen said, the bad news doesn't get better with age, but people don't -- they don't know what to expect if you're not being open.

That's why traditionally they whenever there's been illness even if it's a minor thing like a cold and announcements made. Either the president or the medical team tells what's going on because as you share that information, people trust that you're going to tell the whole story.

So that's one of the important things is communication and that's one of the things that has always been done this administration and other administrations also pertains to the actual health of the president.

You tell the story and then people believe that you're telling the story. And people are more comfortable when they understand what's going on? KING: David, what's your best guess on this day from your experience because this year has been a gut punch constantly? We keep learning new things. We're trying to still learn about this novel virus. But 32 days for election, the President of the United States has COVID-19. He's already -- he's behind in the election right now.

We suspect the second debate which falls within the quarantine period will at least be postponed. What goes through your mind on this day when you think about the moment where we are in the calendar and the consequential election just ahead?

GERGEN: John, I think we don't quite know where we are? And I think so much depends upon how people respond publicly over the next couple of weeks?

If the White House -- if the president and the White House come out and show some humility about this to recognize in fact that they could have done a better job, really wouldn't be in all this contact testing is, what valid forces coming down with the virus itself. But if it shows some humility, I think it's going to go one way.

If on the other hand, what we see is a president within just a few days bouncing into our living room by television and saying, I'm the guy who'd be COVID. I'm just saying here for extra caution say, but I took it like a man and everybody else can do it, and we've turned a corner.

If he's defining it in other words, I think it's going to go a very different way. And I don't think public will have sympathy for him or for his people. I think right now the recent natural amount of sympathy, but let's see where this goes the next, I'd say in next 6,7 days.

KING: David Gergen and Dr. William Lang, grateful gentleman both of you for your expertise and insights and we'll keep our eyes on this. I may call you back for additional help. When we come back though David just noted, and I noted the impact on the presidential campaign.

Remember Joe Biden was on a debate stage with the president the other night. He's being tested this morning, he's due on the campaign trail later today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)