Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Trump's Tests Positive after Recklessness Response to Virus; Amy Coney Barrett Was Diagnosed with COVID This Summer, Recovered; Lawmakers on Capitol Hill Respond to Trump, Senator Lee Testing Positive; Trump's Infection Throws Election into Chaos, Threatens Crisis; Campaign: All Planned Trump Events Postponed or Going Virtual, Dr. Jorge Rodriguez Discusses Trump Testing Positive, Exposure to Family and Others. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired October 02, 2020 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Right, right. He has become a number. And we should all hope that he has a mild case of coronavirus.

But this is a president who was saying, you know, we have turned the corner, coronavirus is in the past. And now we know he is exhibit "A" inside the White House, of all places, that is coronavirus is not a thing of the past.

And ask Tony Fauci or Deborah Birx or Bob Redfield, the science advisers the president doesn't like and has criticized, if they believe this was kind of inevitable given the fact that this is a president who, during the debate even, made fun of Joe Biden for adhering to a mask rule.

And we even know that at that debate the president's own family decided they would not wear masks during the debate.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: That's right.

I just want to say we have information just in, Gloria, that the president's SCOTUS pick, Amy Coney Barrett, was diagnosed with coronavirus this summer and she recovered. This is according to three sources. Her husband was also infected and recovered.

That is -- that is good news.

BORGER: Yes. Yes.

KEILAR: Because this was someone who had spent a lot of time clearly exposed to the president and then went to Capitol Hill and was talking with a lot of different Senators.

We've also seen her not practicing social distancing or wearing a mask as she took a photo in her meeting with Mike Lee, who tested positive. So this is very good news.

BORGER: Right. We have to start really asking questions about when she was introduced to the American public by the president of the United States at that event in the Rose Garden, I believe it, was because now you have the president of Notre Dame and Mike Lee at that event who have been diagnosed with COVID.

So I think the question has to be asked -- and I'm sure people who are doing the contact tracing are doing that -- were people exposed at that event? Was the president? Was Hope Hicks exposed at that event? We don't know at this point. But you have to look at that.

This also provides a picture, Bri, of how difficult all this tracing really is --

KEILAR: Yes.

BORGER: -- when you're talking about the president of the United States, the people he's come into contact with.

He went -- after they knew about Hope Hicks, for example, he went and did a fundraiser in New Jersey. What about those people? If I'm a big funder of Donald Trump, I think I might be a tad angry today about that.

KEILAR: Yes.

BORGER: So the circle grows wider and wider and wider. And there's a lot of work to do because we don't know who gave the virus to whom and how it got started.

But we do know that it is in a very dangerous place right now and that is inside the White House.

KEILAR: And those donors were not wearing masks.

BORGER: That's right.

KEILAR: And they were tested.

So the idea being that they would have been -- the president would have been protected against catching the coronavirus maybe more so from them if they were tested, at least insofar as you can take a negative test to the bank all the time.

BORGER: Right.

KEILAR: But that's not -- the coronavirus doesn't distinguish. Doesn't care if you're president, right?

Just to reiterate what you said, this is just in, that the president of Notre Dame also tested positive. And he had attended the Supreme Court announcement at the White House last week. He was criticized, Gloria, for not wearing a mask around other people.

And this brings up this question about whether this Supreme Court event was a super spreader, certainly as you said.

I guess a big question would be: How's this all going to affect the president's mindset coming to just confronting reality. He shouldn't be able to ignore it. And yet, I wonder what you think of this.

BORGER: Honestly, Brianna, it is hard to predict what the president of the United States is going to do in any circumstance. But I think this really depends on how severe or mild his COVID is.

And I don't know how it's going to affect his outlook or how he's going to start talking about masks or whether he's going to require people inside the White House to finally wear masks.

Today, I watched the White House chief of staff have a little pull aside with reporters and even today he was not wearing a mask. And they all say ---

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: But, Gloria, he said --

BORGER: Yes.

KEILAR: -- he said I got a negative test. I just had a doctor on saying the incubation period --

BORGER: Right.

KEILAR: -- can be from two to 14 days, averaging five to seven days.

But that means, whenever they had last had exposure to President Trump while he was positive, they'll have to keep getting tests for the --

BORGER: Yes.

KEILAR: -- the duration of that period of incubation to make sure. A negative test now, today, doesn't mean they couldn't have a positive one the next day or the next.

BORGER: Tomorrow.

KEILAR: Yes.

BORGER: So it's this false sense of security. Yes, OK, I had a COVID test, I'm fine. They're not fine because the president of the United States has COVID.

KEILAR: Yes.

BORGER: So we know that these instant tests don't always tell you what will happen that afternoon or what will happen tomorrow.

[13:35:09]

But what you can do --

KEILAR:: Or five to seven days from now.

BORGER: Exactly. What you can do is you can wear a mask.

And so you have a president who has been out there making fun of his opponent and saying you don't need it and saying that COVID is in the rear-view mirror and we all know it is not.

So when I say it's up ended the campaign, it has.

KEILAR: Tests are not a prophylactic.

BORGER: Right.

KEILAR: Social distancing and masks are.

BORGER: Absolutely.

KEILAR: Gloria Borger, thank you so much -

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Republican Senator Mike Lee testing positive after hugging people at the Supreme Court event last week, without a mask.

Plus, the spotlight on the continuity of government gets brighter than ever. Hear what the plans are in what is perhaps the biggest presidential health risk since Ronald Reagan was shot.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:40:47]

KEILAR: Now to Capitol Hill where lawmakers are not only responding to news that the president has COVID-19 but also news that a Senator who spent time with the president has also tested positive.

I want to go to CNN's Phil Mattingly on the Hill.

You have this stretching to Senate because Senator Mike Lee. You also have this other issue of the Treasury Secretary Mnuchin having met with Speaker Pelosi and with Leader McConnell.

Now there are a bunch of questions of who could have been exposed and who might have been further exposed to them.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, it goes broader than that because it wasn't just this Saturday ceremony at the White House for the nomination of Amy Coney Barrett or the negotiations on a broader stimulus package between the treasury secretary and the speaker of the House.

There's also the Air Force One trip to Duluth, Minnesota, that a number of Republican members of the Minnesota congressional delegation went on.

What the last 15 hours have demonstrated more so than perhaps over the course of the last five or six months, at least for people here on Capitol Hill, is how interconnected the White House is with Congress.

It is something that, over the course of this period of time in the pandemic, everybody tried to keep the distance, tried to be smart about masks, in particular, here on Capitol Hill, particularly in the Senate.

But the White House has continued to invite Republicans to events, has continued to invite Republicans to travel with the president. And Republicans have been more than willing to go along.

And then you throw in the treasury secretary, who on Wednesday morning, met in the Oval Office with President Trump.

And then, three hours later, was here on Capitol Hill meeting for 90 minutes behind closed doors with the speaker of the House.

Shortly after that, walked over to the Senate majority's office, Mitch McConnell, and met with him face to face for 25 minutes.

And you understand -- and I'm not sure if it's because people have gotten lax or complacent.

Again, Steve Mnuchin wears a mask everywhere he goes. So does the speaker of House. So does Mitch McConnell.

But something has occurred, kind of progressed over the course of the last several months that people are mingling, coming together, people are closer than perhaps they have been.

And that leads to serious problems not just because Mike Lee, obviously, who tested positive today, putting out a statement, was there at the White House on Saturday, met face to face with Amy Coney Barrett on Tuesday, was at multiple Senate judiciary committee hearings and mark-ups over the week.

Was at the closed-door Senate Republican lunches keeping social distance but they're eating and often take their masks off.

I think the bigger issue right is, Brianna, there's no testing regime on Capitol Hill. There's no contact tracing regime in place on Capitol Hill.

And what's been amazing, in both talking to lawmakers and texting with aides -- some of them were panicked last night, early in the morning, texting back and forth -- is nobody is totally sure of the scope and scale of this, right?

You don't necessarily know who has talked to, who's been with who. Then you factor in the fact that members are traveling by airplane from districts and states across the country and you recognize that there's a very real potential issue here if things start to get out of hand.

That's why I why you've heard, over the course of the day, members talking about the fact that, at some point, a testing regime needs to be put in place here. Leaders from both parties have rejected that up to this point. But I

think perhaps now is the moment.

I was just talking to House members as they were walking out. People are pissed, to be blunt, and they want some changes. We'll see if that actually happens.

But as of now, the Senate is scheduled to be in session next week and hearings with Amy Coney Barrett scheduled still to start October 12th -- Brianna?

KEILAR: They should be pissed. They should be.

Phil, thank you very much. Phil Mattingly from Capitol Hill.

The president's positive test amounts to the most serious known health threat to a sitting American president in decades, at least since 1981 when President Ronald Reagan was shot.

There are no indications right now that President Trump is making any plans in case he takes a turn for the worse. His doctor said that he expects the president to carry out his duties.

But what does happen if the president needs to go into the hospital? Could need a ventilator. Many Americans have. Needs to go into intensive care like so many coronavirus patients, who are of his age and have his health profile.

I want to bring in CNN contributor, Garrett Graff, to talk about this. He has a book, "Raven Rock, The Story of the U.S. Government's Secret Plan to Save Itself While the Rest of Us Die."

It is all about what he calls the hidden architecture in existence to ensure the continuity of government and presidential succession.

Garrett, what does happen if the president becomes so sick that he cannot execute his duties of the office?

[13:45:00]

GARRETT GRAFF, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: The good news -- of course, I want to say as what everyone else is saying, which is we all hope, as Americans, that the president --

KEILAR: Yes.

GRAFF: -- stays as healthy as he can be.

But the good news is that an illness by the president, even in the incapacity of the president, is actually not a big unknown question in the U.S. Constitution.

The 25th Amendment lays out a very clear set of processes that would allow the president, if he is well enough to officially transfer power, to do so to the vice president, as well as for the vice president to seize power officially in the event that the president is suddenly taken ill and unable to transfer those powers.

And in fact, this is something that somewhat routinely happens during presidential medical procedures. Vice President Cheney twice assumed the official powers of the presidency while George W. Bush was sedated for colonoscopies in his presidency.

So this is actually something that we have a very good system for protecting. The challenge is we don't actually have any system for replacing a vice president if a vice president is made incapacitated by illness.

KEILAR: OK. So explain that because, right now and such good news, that is the vice president and his wife, Karen Pence, have tested negative.

The issue we just heard from doctors is you can't say, OK, I'm totally free and clear because there's this issue of the incubation period.

And in order to ensure that he is negative -- is actually negative, he'll have to continue to be tested and have those negative tests during this entire potential incubation period.

What happens if, beyond the vice president -- say, where does the speaker come in? What is the next step?

GRAFF: Yes. So this is where you get into very fraught and very problematic scenarios.

The first is the 25th Amendment in the Constitution gives no procedure for replacing or cutting out of the line of succession an incapacitated vice president.

And so what Vice President Cheney did -- he has a long history of heart problems coming into that office in 2001 -- he left with his chief legal counsel a signed letter of resignation that he intended to be given to President Bush in the event that something happened and he was taken ill or incapacitated.

Because that's -- and so, you know, there's an interesting question now, has Mike Pence left a similar letter with someone in the White House in the event that something happens to him right now?

KEILAR: Then who would replace -- who would replace him?

GRAFF: This is where you get into the second level of problems, which is the normal presidential line of succession holds that the -- it would go to the speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi.

There's an open question among constitutional and presidential scholars whether that line of succession is actually constitutional.

And whether Secretary of State Mike Pompeo would be able to challenge that assumption power by the legislative branch in the event that something happens and the speaker of the House is called into the presidency.

So this becomes a very challenging question, very quickly, if something happens to the vice president.

KEILAR: All right. Garrett, thank you so much for walking us through all that. Garrett Graff.

And as the president confronts his coronavirus diagnosis, there's new reaction from the Trump campaign. We'll have that coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:51:27]

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What does it mean that the president is experiencing mild symptoms?

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Can you tell us what kind of test the president got? Did he get a follow-up PCR test, which is more sensitive? How confirmed is this?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I'm not going to get into exactly what kind of test. But as soon as he was assured, indeed, tested positive for COVID-19, within an hour, we put out that information to the American people.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What symptoms -- Kayleigh, what were those symptoms?

MCENANY: I'm not going to get into on the president's symptoms exactly. And mild symptoms. But he's hard at work. We're having to slow him down a little bit.

He's been on the phone with Senator McConnell, Senator Lindsey Graham, been on the phone with chief of staff, Mark Meadows talking about emergency declarations for states as well as stimulus.

So, he's hard at work, despite mild symptoMs.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The chief of staff came out earlier and say the White House learned that Hope Hicks tested positive before the president departed for Bedminster. Why would he still go knowing there's a positive who he had contact with?

MCENANY: It was deemed safe for the president to go. He socially distanced. It was outdoor and it was deemed safe by White House operations.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: When did the president first start feeling unwell?

(CROSSTALK) MCENANY: No. When I briefed that Hope Hicks was positive, I've seen inaccurate reporting. I encourage you to ask the question before you report because I have no --.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: I did ask the question.

MCENANY: -- no, not you but I think others who recorded it falsely.

(CROSSTALK)

MCENANY: I have no knowledge of Hope Hicks' positive test for you.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Will you be wearing masks from now on indoors?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Kayleigh, who exactly assessed that it was safe for president, even when they knew he had exposure, to travel to New Jersey. He was in Air Force One and that fundraiser. Who made that assessment?

MCENANY: White House operations. They assessed that it a was safe for the president in consultation and with --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Kayleigh --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: All right. Many questions left unanswered as Kayleigh McEnany walks away from an impromptu gaggled she seemed to be having there on the North Lawn of the White House area.

She said she wouldn't get into the kind of tests the president had, if it was PCR more exact test. She wouldn't get into the symptoms he has, although, she says that they're mild and he has been working the phones, talking to congressional leaders and to his chief of staff.

And this one, honestly, just made no sense. She said, "It was deemed to be safe" for the president to go to that New Jersey fundraiser.

What she erroneously said was it was an outdoor event. It wasn't. It was an indoor event, I believe. I am pretty clear about that. The fundraiser was an indoor event. The outdoor event was the rally he had had the day before.

Which begs the question on what the timing is about certainly knowing, of course, when the president may have been at risk.

She said White House operations made this assessment. And she did say that when she briefed reporters yesterday, she had had no knowledge of Hope Hicks' positive test before that briefing. There had been a question about whether she, without wearing a mask,

had been briefing reporters, knowing she had been exposed to somebody who was positive for coronavirus. She was saying she did not know that.

Now the Trump campaign just put out a statement as well, which also raises a lot of questions.

It says, "All previously announced campaign events involving the president's participation are in the process of being moved to virtual events or are being temporarily postponed."

"In addition, previously announced events involving members of the first family are also being temporarily postponed. All other campaign events will be considered on a case-by-case basis. And we'll make any relevant announcements in the days ahead."

[13:55:02]

It says, "Vice President Mike Pence, who has tested negative for COVID-19, plans on resuming his scheduled campaign events. Any further information about the president will come from the White House."

This is from Bill Stepien, who is the campaign manager for the Trump campaign.

A couple of things there that we need talk about. One being this admission of members of the first family not going to be participating in in-person events. They were exposed to the president.

Many were at the debate on Tuesday night: Ivanka Trump, his son-in- law, Jared Kushner, Eric Trump, Donald Trump Jr., Eric Trump's wife, Lara Trump -- Kimberly Guilfoyle, Don Jr's girlfriend, has already had COVID -- and Tiffany Trump, the president's daughter, as well.

All of them exposed, as well as the first lady, who is currently in isolation.

I want to bring in Dr. Jorge Rodriguez, internal medicine and viral specialist, to join me.

I want to ask you a question about -- I have a couple about what Kayleigh McEnany just said.

But first, this idea that the vice president, having tested negative for COVID-19, plans to resume his scheduled, in-person campaign events, it appears.

But explain to us how this works. He may have had exposure to the president, right? And you have to be very careful about this when it comes to what the incubation period would be.

You could have a negative test today and you have to be very conservative in making sure you continue to test through an incubation period. DR. JORGE RODRIGUEZ, INTERNAL MEDICINE & VIRAL SPECIALIST: Absolutely

right. First of all, the president may have been contagious to other people for the last two weeks. He may have been in an incubation period himself.

So, anybody who came in contact with him during that period is potentially infectious.

Because the vice president had one negative test, does not mean he is in the clear. You're absolutely right, Brianna. He needs to be tested on a regular basis.

And I would recommend, and I think any other doctor would, that he completely quarantine himself and not be around people for the next 14 days.

Now, he has the luxury to be tested on a daily basis but that doesn't mean he doesn't have virus. It just takes a certain amount of virus for a test to become positive.

So you're right on the money. He should not be meeting with people during these 14 days.

KEILAR: And Kayleigh McEnany at work not wearing a mask?

RODRIGUEZ: Oh, yes.

KEILAR: I mean, I assume she's also had a negative test but is it the same thing there?

RODRIGUEZ: Of course, it's the same thing there. Listen, one of the problems with this administration is they are giving people, just by what they present, wrong and dangerous information.

It is very -- I mean, are we surprised this has turned into a super- spreader event? No. People need to take this seriously.

That's one of my concerns is, first of all, people need to learn this virus is not a hoax. People need learn it isn't that nobody can get it. It's that anybody and everybody can get it.

And we also need to know that it is wearing masks, social distancing, and washing your hands that apply to everybody at every time.

So, yes, she should have been wearing a mask.

KEILAR: I want to ask you about the first lady because we know she's in isolation with the president. She has tested positive with coronavirus.

I think the first thing that comes to mind for a lot of folks is, in 2018, she was hospitalized for what the White House described as a benign kidney procedure.

But there were questions, because of the length of her hospitalization, about, could that create some sort of risk factor for her? Is that something that would concern a physician?

RODRIGUEZ: Sure. First of all, we don't know the accuracy or the truth of what is her medical history.

And I also don't want to give the false sense of security that only people that are elderly or sick can die or get very ill from the coronavirus. It can be anybody.

But obviously, if you have an underlying illness that suppresses your immune system or makes your body weaker, you're probably more susceptible to getting something critically ill from this.

The president was in the hospital or rushed to the hospital last November. We still don't know what that was about. That, along with his age, his overweightness is probably contributing to him being in a higher risk category.

KEILAR: I want you to listen to something that the president's former physician, Ronny Jackson said, even after the White House chief of staff said President Trump has mild symptoMs. Here's Ronny Jackson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. RONNY JACKSON, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PHYSICIAN: What I know right now to be true is he's asymptomatic right now. And I think that's great. I think he will continue to be asymptomatic.

I think we have to remember that he's in great physical health otherwise. He doesn't have the comorbidities. And several of your other guests have mentioned that. But that's true. And that's going to be big for him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: He is not asymptomatic.

[13:59:57]

RODRIGUEZ: No. He currently is not asymptomatic. And I don't know their definition of mild symptoMs, to be quite honest. I think we need take everything told to us about his symptoms with a grain of salt. He is not asymptomatic.