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Trump Postponing Rallies Following Diagnosis; Sen Mike Lee (R- UT) Positive for COVID-19; Mike Pence to Resume Scheduled Campaign Events. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired October 02, 2020 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JORGE RODRIGUEZ, INTERNAL MEDICINE AND VIRAL SPECIALIST: I don't know their definition of mild symptoms, to be quite honest. I think we need to have -- to take everything that's told to us about his symptoms with a grain of salt. He is not asymptomatic.

The next few days is going to tell the story as to whether this evolves to something very, very serious including pneumonia, neurological issues or whether he is going to be toward the milder spectrum of these cases.

So again, I don't know what mild symptoms mean, that's subjective and I don't think that we're being told exactly what's going on, which is a shame because transparency at this time is not only important I think for sort of public confidence, but also for people to see the evolution of what really happened so that they can finally see the truth (ph).

Listen, you have no idea how many -- and maybe you've gotten the same thing -- tweets and comments that I've gotten from people that because of the president crying wolf so many times and the mistruths, they don't even necessarily believe, you know, that this is true. They think that this may be some sort of October ploy.

But I do believe it's true, and I think that we have a chance here of learning many lessons that could save tens of thousands of lives.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Dr. Rodriguez, we always appreciate your insight. Thank you, sir.

It is the top of the hour, I'm Brianna Keilar. President Trump has now come face to face with the threat of coronavirus, announcing that he and his wife, first lady Melania Trump, have both tested positive. That news is coming less than a month before the election, and just hours after one of his closest aides, Hope Hicks, also tested positive for coronavirus.

White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows says the president is in good spirits and has mild symptoms. He added that others in the White House will likely have positive results.

And then last hour, the Trump administration announced that two more people -- a journalist and a press staffer -- have received positive diagnoses.

On Capitol Hill, Republican Senator Mike Lee, who visited the White House earlier this week and met with Supreme Court nominee Amy Coney Barrett on Tuesday, announced that he has COVID. Sources do tell CNN that Barrett was diagnosed with COVID this summer, but that she recovered. A White House spokesman says Barrett is currently tested every day and is negative.

And the president's 2020 rival, Joe Biden, who Trump mocked during this week's debate for wearing a mask, has tested negative as has his wife. This is according to Biden's primary care physician.

TEXT: Joe Biden: Jill and I send our thoughts to President Trump and First Lady Melania Trump for a swift recovery. We will continue to pray for the health and safety of the president and his family.

KEILAR: Biden tweeted his wishes for a speedy recovery for today, and I want to get now to Kaitlan Collins who is at the White House covering this for us.

And Kaitlan, just moments ago, the campaign announced that all planned Trump events -- both by the president and by his family members -- will be postponed or will be virtual. What can you tell us?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. Any event with the president -- which of course you know he had been doing rallies on a near daily basis, at least several a week as he was ramping up his campaign activity in these 30 days before the election.

Now, all of that is being scrapped. They say "postponed," but really you know, they don't know when they're going to be able to reschedule those rallies, so they say some of those events will become virtual events, and they say all of the events involving the president's family are also going to be postponed or made virtual as well.

And it just shows you just what the repercussions of this diagnosis -- not just from the president and the first lady, but also the concern about the other officials that it could have affected are now having on his campaign. Really, a worst-case scenario, timed for the 32 days before the election and now the president is not able to do on the campaign trail.

And it's not clear if after he is, if that comes to that situation, that he will then be able to return in the same fashion that we had seen, where he was already flouting the medical guidelines.

KEILAR: There's also some new details about the fundraiser in New Jersey that he attended yesterday despite knowing that Hope Hicks -- who he had had considerable exposure to -- had tested positive for coronavirus. What can you tell us about that?

COLLINS: Yes, there are a few problems with this. Because, A, we had already known that there was a small group of White House officials who knew as of Thursday morning that Hope Hicks had tested positive for coronavirus. Despite that, the president got on Marine One and went to this fundraiser anyway. And now the chief of staff has confirmed it was as Marine One was

taking off, he says, that they had learned about that. Yet instead of telling Marine One to turn around and come back to the White House, the president went on to this fundraiser.

And Kayleigh McEnany says that's because the White House Operations Office deemed it safe for the president to go to this fundraiser, which she claimed -- wrongly -- was outdoors. It was --

KEILAR: That's right.

COLLINS: -- half indoors and half outdoors, Brianna. There were about 15 to 20 people, we're told, at a roundtable inside with the president yesterday where people were not wearing masks, and then outside the president addressed about 250 people, though he was distanced from them then as he was giving his remarks.

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And so it is just really raising questions about who in the White House Operations Office thought this was a good idea, for the president to continue to go to this.

But the White House has not been transparent about this because as we were learning about how aides had not even found out about this until later on in the day yesterday -- including Kayleigh McEnany, who said she did not know that Hope Hicks had tested positive when she briefed reporters yesterday.

But clearly, they knew something was up because we are told she was someone who was scheduled to go on that trip with the president and then she was pulled from the trip at the last minute and no longer traveled with him.

So, Brianna, everything that we are hearing from the White House today -- and these attempts that they say to be transparent about what's going on -- is only raising more questions. And most of what we learned has been from our own reporting that then the White House has gone on to confirm about what we've already figured out from sources.

KEILAR: Yes. And as she said, it was deemed safe for the president to attend that event. There were a number of people, Kaitlan, there at that event not wearing masks. They were reportedly distanced from the president, but when you're talking about someone who is in the early stages of coronavirus, that should not be full comfort for those folks. And I'm sure that they are all getting tested.

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COLLINS: And, Brianna, they weren't told that the president's top aide had just tested positive --

KEILAR: That's right.

COLLINS: -- for coronavirus. That's what my colleague Jeremy Diamond is reporting now. So it's not like they were making a judgment call where they knew the president had come into contact with someone, they did not know, we are told.

And yet they -- the president knew, his staff knew, and they went on to this fundraiser and didn't tell the people that he was around. And that is going to raise so many questions about the judgment of that decision to not let people know at least what they were getting themselves into.

KEILAR: Yes, it's very, very irresponsible. Kaitlan Collins, thank you so much, live for us covering the White House.

This ripple effect of the president's diagnosis, it really cannot be understated given how much he has been traveling this week. So let's take a look at who he has been in contact with that we know of. The full list could be much longer, but this is sort of contact tracing happening in real time here.

Just yesterday, White House aide John McEntee and deputy press secretary Judd Deere were on Air Force One with the president as he traveled to New Jersey, maskless, as our White House folks are reporting. And as we mentioned, he met with 18 donors at that fundraiser there indoors.

On Wednesday, some of the most senior members of his staff were on Air Force One as they were headed to the Minnesota rally. This included -- of course -- Hope Hicks, but also Jared Kushner and White House chief of staff Mark Meadows. There were also three Republican members of Congress from Minnesota who were on board.

And once the president arrived in Minneapolis, several state leaders met him on the tarmac including the state's house minority leader and three high-ranking military leaders. Again, we do not know all of the people that he may have come into contact with at the fundraiser.

And on Tuesday, the day before Hope Hicks tested positive, the president was with his wife, all of his children and their spouses on the way to the debate. Also on board, several senior staffers, Congressman Jim Jordan and Alice Johnson, the woman who had her drug sentence pardoned by President Trump.

When they landed Ohio State Representative Bernadine Kent and her husband met Trump on the tarmac, and CNN has learned that Rudy Giuliani was also in contact with him that day.

So again, to put this all into perspective, that is more than 45 people by our count alone who now have to be tested, should probably quarantine -- should according to the CDC definitely quarantine. And as well, do their own contact tracing.

Right now the White House says the president is having mild symptoms. It's really unclear what that actually means though. People who interacted with him yesterday said he had a raspy voice, and that he appeared tired throughout the day.

I want to bring in Elizabeth Cohen, CNN's senior medical correspondent. Even before testing positive, Elizabeth, the president's age and health could put him at even greater risk of more severe symptoms. And we also have to be clear that we just don't really know what his symptoms are. They say they're mild at the White House, but they have not credibility. They often do not tell the truth there.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Brianna. And so when I hear that he has mild symptoms, I have to tell you that doesn't really mean much to me, exactly for the reason that you just said. This administration has lied or been wrong about so many things.

So let's talk about what we do know. He is indeed at higher risk than most other people of getting very sick or -- God forbid -- dying from COVID. Now, before I go through all these numbers I want to be clear, he's at higher risk than other people. However, still, chances are -- thank goodness -- that he will get through this OK. The data tell us that chances are he will survive COVID just fine.

But let's talk about why he's at higher risk than other folks. First of all, he weighs 244 pounds, which means that he is clinically obese. And folks who are clinically obese, that triples their risk of being hospitalized.

He is also 74 years old. Folks who are between the ages of 65 and 74, they are at five times greater risk for hospitalization, and a 90 percent greater risk of death. He's also a man. Men are more likely to get sick or get very sick or die from COVID. He's also been treated for high cholesterol, there are a variety of medical ailments that put one at a higher risk for COVID.

But again, to make it clear, chances are -- we know -- the data tells us that chances are he will get through this just fine. It might not necessarily be a quick recovery, but he will recover.

KEILAR: He will recover. All right, that is the expectation. Elizabeth Cohen, thank you so much.

I want to bring in Dr. Rochelle Walensky, who is chief of infectious Diseases Division at Massachusetts General Hospital. She is a CNN medical analyst.

So thank you for being here. We are hearing that the White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows, is describing the president's symptoms as mild. But you know, we've discussed this. There's a lot of credibility problems at the White House in general, and particularly when it comes to the president's health.

But if -- let's just say these really are mild symptoms that he is experiencing, what does that tell you about the long-term prognosis for his coronavirus diagnosis?

ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Good afternoon. First I want to start by sending my good wishes to the president, to the first lady and to Ms. Hicks for what I hope is a speedy and easy recovery.

Here's generally how it goes. If you consider the day you were exposed to this virus day zero, then generally at about day five, people start developing perhaps mild symptoms. That can be low-grade fever, feeling unwell, headache, muscle aches and pains. And that can last from day five to about day 11.

Some people however then progress to some respiratory symptoms, some shortness of breath, difficulty breathing. That's often when they present to the hospital. They might have an oxygen requirement, need some oxygen supplementation. And then if people progress from there, they can get more severe pulmonary symptoms that bring them to an intensive care unit, usually about day 14.

So I think these next five to seven days, we can expect potentially some mild symptoms. And then after that, we really have to either see how this goes and hope for a recovery after that. For about 30 percent of people in his demographic who progress, that's about the time that they would get hospitalized.

KEILAR: So what is the treatment here in these early stages? Is it just -- it's just resting? Is that what it is, resting and observation?

WALENSKY: You know, right now we don't have a lot in the outpatient setting for treatment, right? So we are starting on some clinical trials, there were some early clinical trial data just this past week on monoclonal antibodies and how they could be potentially be very helpful, but nothing yet authorized that's available to treat outpatients with coronavirus.

KEILAR: And I wanted to ask you about something, you know, that has come to our attention, which is that the president, just before announcing that he was positive, he still traveled and held an indoor fundraiser despite knowing that one of his closest aides had coronavirus. These folks were not wearing masks. What is your assessment of that and the action by the White House and the president to proceed with that event?

WALENSKY: Well first, I want to comment that as soon as the president and others tested positive, the plan is isolation. The CDC says you need to isolate, you need to isolate for at least 10 days starting with your first day of symptoms. So I think we should expect that these folks will be in isolation for at least 10 days starting today.

So that then brings up, what do you do when somebody is a known exposed? So you have a case -- that would be Hope Hicks -- you have a known close exposure -- that would be the president and other people traveling with him. And those people, as soon as that known exposure, would have been contact traced and they should have been quarantined. And quarantine would mean trying to not go out and about, staying home so as to not spread the disease to other people.

KEILAR: So is that a violation of CDC recommendations?

WALENSKY: It certainly is in conflict with them.

KEILAR: Certainly is in conflict with them. All right, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, thank you so much.

WALENSKY: Thank you so much for having me.

KEILAR: Next, a flurry of testing on Capitol Hill as the fallout from this outbreak at the White House continues. Hear what Speaker Pelosi had to say about the president's diagnosis.

And we've also learned that at least one person who attended the president's announcement of his Supreme Court pick has tested positive for coronavirus.

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And we're going to look at the contingency plans being developed behind the scenes right now for every possible scenario.

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KEILAR: We have more now from Capitol Hill as we add to the list of lawmakers undergoing COVID testing today in the wake of the president's diagnosis. Utah Senator Mike Lee, the latest to go public with positive test results.

We have CNN's Lauren Fox on the Hill, following all of these developments. And Lauren, you know, one of the big concerns here was that he had met with the Supreme Court pick, Amy Coney Barrett. You saw it there in that photo.

But this actually, as we're understanding, is not as much of a concern that should be registering for folks on the Hill. Tell us why.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Well that's exactly right, Brianna. And when this news initially broke, the concern was that Mike Lee met with Amy Coney Barrett on that very first day at the end of Tuesday, meaning she still had another about 20 members that she met with on Wednesday and Thursday.

But we have since learned -- CNN reporting -- that Amy Coney Barrett actually had coronavirus over the summer and she had recovered. So the risk to the president's Supreme Court nominee significantly diminished there of course, given the fact that she already had this virus.

Now, there are still widespread concerns up here on Capitol Hill about the fact that Mike Lee has now tested positive. He is a member of the Judiciary Committee. This is really a reminder of just what a petri dish Capitol Hill can be when it comes to a virus like this one.

I mean, one thing to remember is that members, they lunch together. The Republican conference is meeting in person, having lunch together on Tuesday afternoons, Wednesday afternoons, Thursday afternoons. We also know that Mike Lee was present at a Judiciary Committee meeting earlier this week, so there are legitimate questions about anyone else who might have been exposed.

Now, Lee was also, Saturday, at that Rose Garden ceremony with the Amy Coney Barrett announcement, and we know now that one person who was present there, Notre Dame's president, actually has since tested positive as well, Brianna. Now, I asked Nancy Pelosi this morning what does all of this mean,

what does the president's diagnosis mean for not only Capitol Hill but the country at large? here's what she told me.

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REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: As sad as the diagnosis is that the president and first lady have, maybe it is the pivotal moment to take us to a different place as we fight this vicious virus based on science, not on politics.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOX: And of course, the fight that's going to develop up here on Capitol Hill is one that's kind of been brewing for a couple of weeks, Brianna, and that is whether Capitol Hill needs to have a mechanism to have rapid testing, some kind of testing mechanism because all of these members, they're flying from 50 different states, hundreds of different congressional districts. That is a recipe for disaster.

You can expect that lawmakers are pushing their leadership, both on the Republican and Democratic side, to get some kind of testing program up here on Capitol Hill. You know, Senator Roy Blunt, a Republican in leadership, and the chairman of the Rules Committee, he has been fighting for this behind the scenes for several months, and you can bet that those discussions are going to be ongoing -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Oh yes. Something may need to change there. Lauren Fox, thank you so much for that.

The president's infection is also triggering questions about continuity of government. What happens if the president gets more sick? What if he would need to go on a ventilator, what if he goes into intensive care like the experience of so many coronavirus patients of his age and health profile?

John Hudak is the deputy director of the Center for Effective Public Management of the Brookings Institution. In July, he wrote a piece called, "What Happens if President Trump Contracts COVID-19." And also here is CNN election law analyst Richard Pildes with us. He is a constitutional law professor at NYU School of Law.

Rick, to you first, what should happen if the president does become so sick? And look, they say he has mild symptoms at the White House. We don't actually know what that means, they lack credibility there. So what happens if the president were to not only have mild symptoms and he were to become so sick that he can't actually execute his duties?

RICHARD PILDES, CNN ELECTION LAW ANALYST: Yes, so fortunately the Constitution speaks directly to this question. In the 25th Amendment, we've provided for this scenario. So there are two paths to dealing with this issue potentially.

First is the president himself could sign a declaration in a letter to Congress, saying I don't think I'm able to continue to exercise the duties of the office temporarily, and Vice President Pence would become acting president immediately.

If the president becomes immediately incapacitated and can't sign a letter like that, the vice president and the majority of the cabinet could send a letter like that to Congress, in which case, again, the vice president would immediately become the acting president.

KEILAR: I see.

And John, how is this going to impact the election, which is just a month away now?

JOHN HUDAK, AUTHOR, 'WHAT HAPPENS IF PRESIDENT TRUMP CONTRACTS COVID- 19": Well I mean, obviously, the campaign itself is going to take a very dramatic turn for Mr. Trump and Mr. Pence. The president has to come off of the campaign trail, he needs to get well, he'll need to isolate probably for several days after he gets well.

And for the vice president, his health needs to be maintained for the line of succession and for the continuity of government, and so he'll have to come off of the campaign trail too. And the campaign needs to figure out an alternative way to communicate with voters other than how they thought they were going to spend the last five weeks of the race.

KEILAR: You're saying that the vice president needs to come off the campaign trail?

HUDAK: Absolutely. We cannot risk the health of the vice president while the president is sick. And this morning, the vice president tested negative and we hope of course that he continues to test negative, but every day that he is out on the campaign trail, he is putting not just his own health at risk but the continuity of the United States government at risk. And so it is incumbent upon the campaign to isolate the vice president and to ensure that his health is maintained.

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KEILAR: OK, and I just -- I hear what you're saying. And I think that's pretty common sense that he should come off, but I just want to read what the campaign is saying. "Vice President Mike Pence, who has tested negative for COVID-19, plans on resuming his scheduled campaign events." So look, they're not taking that very obvious advice and counsel that I think many doctors and experts would tell them.

To you, Rick, if the president were to be sick for a long time, what would that mean for Election Day?

PILDES: Yes, so this could be talked about in terms of him getting incapacitated before the election, or what if he's elected and then gets incapacitated after the election?

So before the election, if he's incapacitated, the formal organization of the Republican Party -- which is called the Republican National Committee, 168 members, has the power to put forward a replacement candidate for the party. Now the problem is if that happens, we are so close to the election

that it's going to be very hard for states to change their ballots to reflect that. Maybe they can change the electronic voting machines, but I think this is going to be very complicated to do and especially if this happens two weeks or three weeks from now.

So what would happen is that we would vote. And of course we are actually voting for electors to the Electoral College. And so people who wanted to support the president or the Republican Party would presumably vote for the president on the ballot. That would elect a slate of Republican electors to the Electoral College, who would then have considerable freedom if the president was incapacitated to decide how they were going to vote.

KEILAR: John Hudak and Rick Pildes, thank you so much to both of you.

HUDAK: Thank you.

PILDES: Good to talk to you, Brianna.

KEILAR: Joe Biden and his wife Jill say that their tests have come back negative today for coronavirus, but the president's infection is throwing another wild card into an election that is just a month away, so we are going to talk more about that.

Plus, details on the most promising treatments that are available right now that the president or first lady may need.

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