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Biden Tests Negative Following Debate With Trump; How Trump's COVID Infection Changes Campaign; President Trump Contracts COVID-19. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired October 02, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:09]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan. Thank you so much for joining us this hour.

We continue to follow the many moving parts and developments on what really is turning out to be the worst health crisis to hit the White House and presidency in decades, facing its greatest health risk since Ronald Reagan was shot nearly 40 years ago.

So, here's what we know right now. President Trump and the first lady, Melania Trump, both tested positive for coronavirus, the White House announcing that at around 1:00 this morning. They are now isolating themselves in the White House residence.

The president's scheduled call today about coronavirus support for seniors, he did not participate. The Trump campaign just announced that all previously scheduled events are postponed or now going to be virtual.

The president's chief of staff, Mark Meadows, he also spoke to reporters earlier today with an update, and he says the president is experiencing mild symptoms, but is in good spirits, which is good news.

What is also, though, important is what Meadows would not say. He would not get into the treatments that the president is receiving. He also would not detail when the White House first learned one of the president's closest aides, Hope Hicks, had tested positive.

Meadows also did not answer the question when asked why he and others in close contact with the president and Hicks weren't going into the 14-day quarantine with the guidelines set by the CDC.

Here's what Mark Meadows said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK MEADOWS, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: We have tested all of our core staff. And I can tell you that Mr. -- Mr. Kushner, Mr. Scavino, myself, a number of us have been tested and come back with negative results. And yet, at the same time, I fully expect that, as this virus continues to go on, other people in the White House will certainly have a positive test result.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: We're going to talk more about that comment from Mark Meadows in a second.

Vice President Pence, he still plans to travel to Salt Lake City next week for his debate with Kamala Harris. His doctor put out a statement this afternoon saying that Pence tested negative today. He is in good health and does not need to quarantine.

Joe Biden, who shared a debate stage with President Trump on Tuesday, his staff reports he has tested negative for coronavirus today as well.

But let's be honest. This is just the very beginning, the first chapter in what is no doubt going to be a long and serious story that gets to the core of our entire conversation since the beginning of this pandemic, a virus that does not discriminate, the clear mitigation measures that health experts say can and do protect you and your neighbor, and a president who has flouted, dismissed and mocked those very same safety measures all along.

Let's go to the White House right now.

CNN's Jim Acosta, he's standing by with the very latest.

Jim, what are you hearing?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

Well, Kate, right now, what we're hearing is that White House officials are trying to get to the bottom of how all of this got started. There's been a lot of focus, obviously, on Hope Hicks, the top aide to the president.

But there's also some focus on this event that was held at the White House last Saturday, when the president announced his pick for the Supreme Court, Amy Coney Barrett. We know that Utah Senator Mike Lee, who was at that event, the president of Notre Dame, who was also at that event, have both tested positive now for the coronavirus.

Obviously, White House officials were at that event. And so there is the potential that all of this began there. But it is difficult to say, because, as you said, Kate, the president has had a busy schedule all this week.

He had a debate with Joe Biden on Tuesday. He had that rally in Minnesota on Wednesday. And then he went up to Bedminster for his fund-raiser yesterday. That is when Mark Meadows said, just before they were boarding Marine One yesterday, that they discovered that Hope Hicks had been tested positive for the coronavirus.

And the mystery remains just how many more staffers are going to test positive for this virus.

We learned earlier this morning that an additional White House staffer who works in the press office has tested positive for the virus, and two members of the White House press corps have come down with positive results. And so this is spreading and this is growing.

This has been the fear all along for months and months, that, as the president holds these rallies and events with lots of people gathered at the White House, that you could have a potential super-spreader event, where people come down with COVID-19.

In the meantime, we should note, even as the White House is saying, yes, the president is experiencing mild symptoms of the coronavirus, he was unable or at the very least not able at the time to be on a conference call on COVID-19's effect on senior citizens.

The vice president, Mike Pence, instead chaired that conference call and explained to people listening in that the president was convalescing, in the words of the vice president.

So, we're not getting a lot of clear answers as to how well the president doing. They say he has mild symptoms. Could they be more serious than that?

[15:05:03]

As we know from listening to our top health experts, people like Dr. Anthony Fauci and so on, this may start off mild in terms of the symptoms, but could get worse over time.

In the meantime, Kate, we're also waiting to see whether or not we will actually have the president come out in front of the cameras today. That was anticipated perhaps yesterday, that we might see the president. But as he's come down with COVID-19, the first lady's come down with COVID-19, it is unclear at this point whether or not we will see the president by the end of day.

Of course, that would reassure people inside the campaign, who have scrapped all of his events for the time being, as well as the financial markets, if the president were to come out in front of the cameras, but, as of yet, no announcement from the White House as to whether or not we will see Mr. Trump -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Well, we will stand by for that.

We also just learned from a spokesperson for Rudy Giuliani, who, of course, was part of President Trump's debate prep team, he has tested negative, his spokeswoman says, tested negative for coronavirus. We're going to continue to have to have these updates, because of how many people were in the president's circle in the past week.

Jim, thank you so much.

All right, joining me right now, Dr. Celine Gounder, an infectious disease specialist and an epidemiologist, and Dr. Eric Topol. He is an influential physician, scientist, as well as the director of the Scripps Research Translational Institute.

Thank you both for being here.

Dr. Gounder, the chief of staff saying that the president is experiencing mild symptoms, they have not gone into any further detail than that. Can you give me a range of what mild symptoms would be, from your perspective?

DR. CELINE GOUNDER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, mild symptoms might include runny, stuffy nose, a bit of a cough. I certainly would not anticipate somebody like that having a high fever or shortness of breath.

But I think it's also important to remember that the majority of patients who get sick with COVID, it takes about a week from initial symptom onset before they really get a lot worse and decompensate.

And so it's still too early to say how severe this is going to be for the president.

BOLDUAN: And that's some important perspective.

And the time period -- there's also another part of the time period that I think is also important, Doctor. There is now this large and kind of growing pool of people that are potentially at risk because of close contact.

I want to play again what Mark Meadows said about the need to quarantine. Listen to the reporter's question to Mark Meadows and listen to what he says.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: I just wanted to ask really quickly, the officials who were on the flight with the president on Wednesday, including Kushner, Scavino, I think Stephen Miller was there, are they all quarantining? Have they been tested?

MEADOWS: We've tested all of our core staff. And I can tell you that Mr. Kushner, Mr. Scavino, myself, a number of us have been tested, have come back with negative results.

And yet, at the same time, I fully expect that, as this virus continues to go on, other people in the White House will certainly have a positive test result.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Dr. Topol, he's saying there essentially that they're all -- they're in the clear because they got negative test results. But that's not correct, because of what we have come to learn about the incubation period of this virus, right?

DR. ERIC TOPOL, SCRIPPS RESEARCH TRANSLATIONAL INSTITUTE: Exactly.

That's really unfortunate, Kate. It's a fallacy in reasoning. These people could easily be harboring virus that's not yet detectable by the test. Also, we know the test that the White House relies on has a high false negative rate of at least 30 percent.

So these people should be undergoing quarantine. They shouldn't be saying that, just because they have a negative test, they're good to go.

BOLDUAN: And they should still be wearing a mask. That was another reason -- the negative test is another reason why Meadows said to our Jim Acosta that he felt he was at a safe distance, and he had a negative test, so he didn't need to have a mask, which, again, that's not it.

That's not how this goes.

TOPOL: This is just a lot of denialism, and just not being straight with what -- masks or how essential they are, and the tests are and how they iffy they are in the early days.

BOLDUAN: Dr. Gounder, it's not just Mark Meadows and Jared Kushner,as he was talking about there.

Let me put up a list of just some of the people who we know were in close contact and have announced that they received negative tests back.

Should all of these people be quarantining?

GOUNDER: Oh, 100 percent, Kate.

It takes, on average, four to five days before someone turns positive on a test or symptoms after their exposure, and it can take out to 14 days. And so just because you're negative on day one doesn't mean you will still be negative on days two, three, four all the way out to 14.

And so while they should be retested, until that 14-day mark, anybody who's been in close contact with the president in the last couple days should be in quarantine.

BOLDUAN: Which is why the CDC put forth the 14-day quarantine in the first place.

[15:10:03]

It's like we're all -- it's like -- seems like such a strange two different worlds that we're operating in right now.

Dr. Topol, let's talk about the president, his risk factors, his health, as we know it, as been presented by his doctors, because there are several -- there are several risk factors that we have been told in the past.

He's in a higher-risk group just because of his age. He's 74. And the fact that he is a man, that puts him at a higher risk. There is also his weight. CNN reported in June he weighs 244 pounds, and he's 6'3'', with a body mass index then of 30.5 percent, which does make him obese.

What does that snapshot, if you will, mean for -- of course, we don't know -- you're not privy to, we're not privy to all of the president's medical records. But if you get that snapshot of a patient with COVID, what does that mean for his risk level with COVID?

(CROSSTALK)

TOPOL: Well, right, Kate, those are three principal risk factors, the age greater than 70, male, obesity.

They play out much more, we know much more if someone winds up in the hospital. So, as Dr. Gounder pointed out, that it could be days ahead. If he gets worse and has to be in the hospital, then we know those features really carry a high risk of running into trouble.

But, in general, so many people with those risk factors will actually do well and not have a rough course. So, even though he's in a higher- risk category, at this stage, in the early days, it's too early to tell where this is headed.

BOLDUAN: Right?

Dr. Gounder, the chief of staff also confirmed today that the White House knew about Hope Hicks testing positive before President Trump went to New Jersey yesterday for events, campaign events inside and outside, a roundtable with no masks inside in New Jersey.

From an infectious disease standpoint, what's your reaction to that?

GOUNDER: Well, at that point, the president had not yet been tested. So he was an exposed individual, not a COVID case yet. And so he should have been in quarantine from the time he learned of Hope's -- Hope Hicks' diagnosis.

And, at that point, he should have been getting tested and awaiting testing, the results of that. But he should not have been traveling for any kind of event at that point.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

And I have to say, we have got -- we will see what happens throughout the hour, but I just anticipate, unfortunately, hearing of more positive tests coming out from the White House complex, unfortunately.

Dr. Gounder, thank you so much.

Dr. Topol, thank you. Really appreciate it.

TOPOL: You bet.

BOLDUAN: Still ahead for us, the presidential campaign as we knew it is over after the president's diagnosis. One month out to the election, what does the 2020 campaign look like now?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:17:14]

BOLDUAN: Welcome back.

Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden and his wife, Jill Biden, have announced that they have tested negative today for coronavirus. The former vice president is now on his way to Michigan for campaign events.

CNN's M.J. Lee following all this for us.

M.J., what are you hearing from the campaign?

M.J. LEE, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, clearly, Donald Trump testing positive for COVID-19 having huge implications, including for the 2020 campaign.

And, as you said, just this morning, both Joe and Jill Biden were tested for COVID-19. Those tests came back negative. And so then the campaign made the decision to go ahead with Biden's trip, a campaign trip to Michigan. So he is on his way there now.

And he was supposed to leave in the morning. But that trip, the departure was delayed, as the campaign was waiting for those COVID tests to come back.

I think we should just remind the audience quickly on why the Bidens had to be tested. It was just three days ago that Joe Biden shared a debate stage with President Trump. Yes, the podiums were socially distance, they were well over six feet apart, actually more than 12 feet apart, to be precise.

However, they were, of course, indoors. There was an audience in attendance at this debate, guests of both campaigns. And, as we saw in real time, some of those guests, especially from the Trump campaign, we saw in real time were not wearing masks.

Now, even if Trump and Biden, we didn't actually see them physically interacting, there was no handshake, there were certainly no hug or anything like that, clearly, there was that concern of exposure, and that is why the Bidens were tested.

When Biden announced his negative test earlier today, he tweeted this out, sort of like a PSA of sorts. He said: "I hope this serves as a reminder, wear a mask, keep social distance, and wash your hands."

I do also just want to quickly note, we have a new statement from a Biden official sort of informing us on the decision to go ahead with this Michigan trip. The official said: "Vice President Biden tested negative and was not in close contact with President Trump. He also wore a mask at all times, except for when he was on stage. And we implement social distancing, mask-wearing and other best practices in all of our campaigning."

So, clearly, in this statement too sort of drawing a contrast between the way that Biden has conducted himself on the campaign trail and the way that President Trump has -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Yes.

M.J., it's great to see you. Thank you.

So, without question, as M.J. is laying out, this reshapes the final weeks of the presidential campaign. One candidate is now in quarantine. You just have to like let that set in for a second.

Let me bring in CNN's political director, David Chalian, for more on this,

David, what does it mean, first and foremost, for the -- looking at the president in isolation, what does it mean to lose at least two weeks of campaigning at this point for him?

[15:20:08]

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Right.

You noted one candidate in quarantine. That candidate also happens to be president of the United States right now.

Kate, you have covered enough campaigns to know there is no more precious resource in a campaign than the candidate's time. Now, this whole campaign season has been different, obviously, because it hasn't involved as much on-the-ground campaigning.

But we know that, for President Trump, that's still a premium for him. He has still been holding rallies. He has been itching to get out there. He's been mocking Joe Biden for hiding in his basement and not out there as much and mocking him for mask-wearing, as well, as recently as at the debate on Tuesday night.

But we know that Donald Trump campaigning means getting out there in front of his supporters, holding those rallies, getting that positive affirmation back. Absent that, he gets very itchy. He likes to be out there with his supporters.

So it will dramatically change. And that has been his main vehicle of campaigning. So, for two weeks now, when there are only four left, for that being sidelined, that's a very big departure from what the game plan was in the homestretch for the Trump campaign.

BOLDUAN: And look at it on the other side, then.

And what does this mean for Joe Biden? He's going -- he's going to continue campaigning. M.J. laid out what the position is of the campaign in terms of the procedures and kind of protocols that they have in place. He's still -- he's on his way to Michigan.

CHALIAN: Yes. This is a really interesting decision for the Biden campaign to proceed.

Clearly, they did their testing. They believe they have the opportunity to show how you campaign responsibly. It's something, a contrast they have been trying to draw with the president from the conventions and onward in this fall campaign season, holding a socially distanced event when they are in front of people, like drive- in with the cars, as they did at the CNN town hall or at their convention, or people are wearing masks.

They make sure to draw that contrast. But I do think, Kate, there's going to be a question here just about tone. We don't have a playbook for this. I mean, I think much of how the Biden camp procedure -- Biden camp proceeds is going to be dependent on the health news out of the White House, right?

BOLDUAN: Right.

CHALIAN: I mean, if we learn that the president is getting sick, and really having a tough battle with this, I think there's going to have to be a reassessment of the Biden campaign about how you campaign against an opponent who is sick.

But until we have that information, Biden campaign indicates it's all systems go at the moment, though safely and according to CDC guidelines.

BOLDUAN: I totally hear you. And who knows what this means for the debates. Stand by to stand by on that.

But looking at it from just a campaign messaging standpoint, from the Trump side, if you have been spending an entire campaign really downplaying coronavirus, downplaying the seriousness of it, we're getting -- we're turning the corner, as the president said just this week, I mean, what does the messaging from the Trump campaign look like out of this?

CHALIAN: It's such a good question.

Let's just also start with the fact that Donald Trump was seeking any which way, if you were paying attention, as you were, for the last a couple months, to make each campaign day and the news narrative around it not about coronavirus, because, when it is about coronavirus, that is the thing that has brought Donald Trump to the position he's in, which is an underdog for reelection right now, and so whether it is having the opportunity to make a Supreme Court nomination, or trying to turn the message to law and order and focusing their convention on that.

Now, none of that really sidelined a global pandemic from the very center of this campaign, obviously. But now, with the president actually testing positive, with the president battling this virus, I don't think there's a chance for anything else that could possibly break through.

This is the coronavirus campaign. And that has been brought home now in a way that nobody could have possibly imagined in these closing days. And that is not -- aside from the health -- and, obviously, we all wish the president and first lady to have a speedy and complete recovery. Aside from their health, though, politically, this is not at all where

the Trump campaign and the president wanted the conversation to be four weeks out.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

It's good to see you, David. Thank you.

CHALIAN: Sure.

BOLDUAN: Still to come for us: U.S. Senator Mike Lee, he tests positive for COVID. We're going to take your live to Capitol Hill.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:29:21]

BOLDUAN: Republican Senator Mike Lee of Utah announced today that he has tested positive for coronavirus.

This is especially relevant now, because, just this weekend, he was at the White House. Take a look at this video, Mike Lee on Saturday at the nomination ceremony of Supreme Court nominee Amy Coney Barrett, without a mask and not socially distancing.

He also met with Barrett on Tuesday on Capitol Hill.

CNN's Phil Mattingly is joining me now. He's tracking all of these developments.

And there's a lot to track on the Hill right now, Phil.

What more are you hearing about this?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kate, in the words of one senior Republican aide, he said, this is kind of a reality check, to some degree.

If you talk to senators, Senate business in large part has been business as usual. Now, senators wear masks. They try and keep socially distant, but they still vote on a regular basis.