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GOP Senator Mike Lee Tests Positive After Visiting White House; Trump Campaign Postpones Events and Goes Virtual; White House Chief of Staff Says Trump Has Mild Symptoms of COVID; Pence Plans to Attend Debate Next Week; Source Close to White House Says Experimental Drugs an Option for Trump. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired October 02, 2020 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Now Senators wear masks, they try to keep socially distant, but they still vote on a regular basis. Senate Republicans still meet though socially distanced for their daily Republican lunches behind closed doors.

And I think this kind of brought home the fact that the virus is still very, very relevant. Some of them aren't running into it when they go back home to their states, there haven't been a lot of outbreaks here on Capitol Hill.

And so, this was a reminder from a public health perspective that this is very, very real. But also keep in mind, Mike Lee is on the Senate Judiciary Committee. You mentioned that he was at the ceremony on Saturday, that he met on Tuesday with Amy Coney Barrett and when you talk to Republicans, one of their biggest concerns right now, obviously, the health of their colleague but also what does this mean for the potential confirmation?

And I think Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, Senate Judiciary Chairman Lindsey Graham making clear they're full steam ahead. But listen to the balancing act McConnell lays out here in an interview with Hugh Hewitt this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: The plan is for the nomination to come out of committee on October the 22nd as Chairman Lindsey Graham has indicated. And we will be voting on the nominee, you know, very soon.

HUGH HEWITT, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Is any member of the Senate, Democrat or Republican, to your knowledge, do they have the virus?

MCCONNELL: Well, we don't know. But, you know, it could sneak up on you as it, obviously, did with the President and the first lady, so we're being very careful and keeping out eye on everyone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: And I talked about the reality check, that uncertainty that McConnell refers to at the end, we don't really know and that could have repercussions, not just for the state of the Senate but also for a Supreme Court nominee that they're trying to get through in a very, very compressed timeline.

So, keep an eye on all of these things, Kate. It's not just public health, it's not just public policy, I think it's all of the operations on Capitol Hill right now are a little bit unsettled and certainly have had a very jarring last 12 to 15 hours or so.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: Absolutely, thanks, Phil. Great to see you.

So any serious illness by any American President brings with it serious national security implications add to it, we don't know yet how far this outbreak at the White House extends, how far into the danger zone is the country right now?

Joining me right now is the former Director of National Intelligence, James Clapper. Director, thank you for your time. What are the national security implications of the President having COVID and now in isolation? I mean what vulnerabilities does this present?

JAMES CLAPPER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I think the -- my main concern is the kind of the distraction. Obviously, we are all consumed with this, about concern for the President's health and that of the first lady. And obviously that has to affect operations in the White House, no matter what they say.

The White House is a charged place anyway, high pressure all of the time, even under normal circumstances. And so, a situation like this is quite a distraction. And that's kind of what my concern would be from a national security standpoint, is just the inability to focus on national security issues, particularly overseas.

BOLDUAN: And if you were in your old job right now, you get a call with this news, what are the -- I'll call them protocols that are kind of set in motion to ensure the continuity of government if that becomes necessary? I mean what are the conversations that you would be having?

CLAPPER: Well, if I were in my old job, the conversation I would certainly be having is with all of the intelligence component leaders, the directors of the agencies, et cetera, about leaning forward in the fox hole to be extra alert for any sort of provocation by either a nation state or a non-nation state. And so, I would be in the mode of fostering and pushing higher alertness and higher awareness.

BOLDUAN: And look, we don't know how far this has spread within the White House and beyond, of course. Just what we know right now, does this impact the operation of government?

CLAPPER: Well, I think it has to, Kate. You know, I spent hundreds of hours in the White House attending meetings, lots and lots of time in the Situation Room, which is a very small, confined room that is actually smaller than the pictures that you see of it indicate. And so, from the standpoint of operations in the White House, which is kind of the nerve center for our government and for the national security apparatus, this has got to be a huge distraction. So, I do worry about that.

At the same time, the U.S. government is a very large, dispersed enterprise so you can bet that the intelligence community is on the alert and the Department of Defense is.

[15:35:00]

And, in fact, not to hyperventilate about this, right now the President is reportedly experiencing mild symptoms and is still able to perform his duties as President and importantly as commander-in- chief. And I'm sure, or at least I hope that in the White House, they're thinking about and making some contingency plans in case his conditions worsens.

BOLDUAN: That's exactly right. I mean what questions -- look, you worked in the world of secrets. But what questions do you think need to be answered to the public right now about what you're talking about? About operations of government, about continuity of government, what do you think?

CLAPPER: Well there is a defined process here for ensuring continuity to government. There is, of course, the 25th Amendment.

BOLDUAN: Right.

CLAPPER: That is -- well, it has been used in the past when Presidents have been temporarily incapacitated. It's not quite as clear at least in my mind about what happens if the Vice President is incapacitated.

So, one thing I trust, or I hope is that the Vice President is being isolated and is being careful about his not being infected.

The other thing that we have to be mindful of is the typical pattern of the COVID is, if come down with it, that the first few days are not typically mild symptoms. And so, the real issue here I think is going to be in a few days to see which path the disease takes, particularly with the President.

But I think all of the rest of the government is going to be, you know, leaning forward and being on the alert. I think another issue to be, you know, that the speculation about will someone, some nation state or a non-nation state do something to try to take advantage, air quotes, of the situation? I think that's certainly theoretically possible, but I think at this point it's very unlikely.

BOLDUAN: Thanks for coming on, Director. I really appreciate it.

CLAPPER: Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, the White House has not provided details of the treatment that the President is receiving. And much more. How important is transparency in this unprecedented moment? We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:40:00]

BOLDUAN: One of many big questions still outstanding right now is what exactly is the timeline of when the President was infected, by whom and when did the administration know?

We do know that the President's infection came after a busy week of traveling and campaign events which once again had the President in close contact with a ton of people, including at a fundraiser in New Jersey just yesterday.

Joining me right now for more on that timeline which I believe is going to become critical, CNN's John Harwood. John, you've been taking a close look at the President's movements this week, what are you seeing?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Kate, first of all, it's important to say up front, we do not know when the President caught this virus or how he caught it. Certainly, there's been a lot of attention as far back as Saturday when he nominated Amy Coney Barrett and there were a lot of people gathered in close quarters without masks there. White House is doing contract tracing to try to figure it out.

But let's talk about the last few days beginning on Tuesday which is what we thought was going to be the big event of the week, the debate took place. The President flew in the afternoon to Cleveland, for that debate, conducted a walk-through, then at 9:00 took the stage with Joe Biden to debate him without masks. And in keeping with the President's defiance of public health advice, his team declined to wear masks while seated in the audience. The President mocked, made fun of Joe Biden for wearing masks during the debate.

Then he returned to the White House that evening. On Wednesday he left to go to Minnesota. He stopped and talked to the press without wearing a mask in the driveway. He then flew to Duluth, had a fundraiser at a private residence. Had a rally that evening.

It was not a particularly long rally. Don't know if it was cut short for any reason. But on the way home Hope Hicks, his very close aide, reported that she was feeling unwell. She isolated on the flight home. On Thursday morning, staffers learned that Hope Hicks had tested positive for the coronavirus. They did not tell the public that information.

And in the afternoon on Thursday the President went to his golf club Bedminster to have a round table with supporters that was partly inside, partly outside. People at the event thought the President looked exhausted and maybe thought he had been worn out from travel, maybe wasn't feeling all that great.

But in any case, he then returned to the White House at 6:00 p.m. The White House did not disclose anything related to coronavirus in the White House. But then at around 8:00 "Bloomberg News" broke the news that Hope Hicks had tested positive for coronavirus. CNN quickly confirmed that.

Subsequently the President went on the "Hannity" show, said did he not know if he had coronavirus, that he was waiting for his test to come back. Then after midnight just before 1:00 in the morning he tweeted out that he and the first lady had both tested positive for coronavirus and were beginning the quarantine process and that started the chain of events that we've seen unfold today.

[15:45:04]

That includes Vice President Pence and Karen Pence saying they had tested negative. Same with Treasury Secretary Mnuchin and same with Joe Biden the Democratic presidential nominee who announced that he had tested negative for coronavirus. And now we wait to follow the course of the President's illness and of course we hope he does not get anything worse than the mild symptoms that aides say he's suffering right now.

BOLDUAN: That's exactly right. It is really important to see that timeline in full and it will continue to kind of fill out, John, thank you so much for tracking that. I really appreciate it.

So as the President now becomes one of over 7 million Americans who have been infected with COVID and as you just heard we are still trying to figure out the President got it. You can't also ignore how the President has talked about COVID all along. But even this week at the debate on Tuesday, mocking masks and then a taped statement to the Al Smith dinner. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't wear masks like him. Every time you see him, he's got a mask. He could be speaking 200 feet away from me and he shows up with the biggest mask I've ever seen.

I just want to say that the end of the pandemic is in sight and next year will be one of the greatest years in the history of our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Look, it's that mentality, that recklessness that definitely did not help protect the President here.

With me now, CNN's Gloria Borger for a little more perspective on this. Gloria, there's this recklessness that we've seen with the President, flouting CDC guidelines all along and mocking these safety measures and also a real lack of transparency. Let's start with the first. He did not, the President, take this seriously all along.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: No. Look, this is a President who's been reckless as you point out. He's been negligent, I would argue he's also been incompetent when it comes to COVID. He's been putting his campaign above his own safety. The safety of his staff and as John Harwood pointed out, even the safety of his donors whom he flew to see in Bedminster knowing that someone who was very close to him have been diagnosed with COVID.

This is also putting the duties of his office at risk. I think it's kind of stunning, even by Trump standards, when you put this all altogether and you see what the President knew about COVID, and he still continued to go on and on.

And, you know, you have to wonder whether everyone in the White House, if they were masked, and forget the fact that they take these COVID tests every day. It doesn't matter. Because you can have a negative test one day and a positive test the next. If everybody in the White House had abided by the CDC suggestions, guidelines, then perhaps all of this could have been avoided.

BOLDUAN: And the lack of transparency now, it's a real problem all of the time with this administration. But a real problem now.

BORGER: Sure.

BOLDUAN: I mean they don't want to talk about the timeline. Thank goodness for John Harwood and his work.

BORGER: Right.

BOLDUAN: "The New York Times" is even reporting they had hoped to keep the news of Hope Hicks being infected from becoming public. How is this keep this shrouded in secrecy going to help them now with credibility?

BORGER: It's not going to help them at all. I mean look, we all know very well that this is not a White House known for telling the truth or putting a premium on transparency.

If "Bloomberg News" hadn't first broken this news about Hope Hicks, who knows when we would have heard about this. So, I think that, you know, you have to look back also to when the President made that visit, we still don't know about, to Walter Reed Hospital. I think it was back in November of 2019. We still don't know what that visit was about. When it comes to the President's health, people in this country should not have to be reading the tea leaves about what is going on.

There should be regular briefings by doctors. There should be regular briefings by his key staff about what we know about the President's health. I mean, this is, you know, this is not just some person out there, this is the President of the United States of America.

And if you need to talk about any kind of transfer of power for example, we need to know about the President's health. It is remarkable that we do not know any more other than a couple of people coming out on the lawn and saying, oh yeah, the President's doing fine, he has a mild case of COVID. What does that mean?

BOLDUAN: Yes, no kidding. The President's health is not a private matter. Unfortunately, that's just the way it is.

BORGER: That's right.

BOLDUAN: Gloria, thank you so much.

BORGER: Sure.

BOLDUAN: We're going to take a quick break, we're getting some breaking news coming in, an update on the President, what's going on at the White House. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:50:00]

BOLDUAN: Breaking news now on the President's condition. More specifically, what we are now learning about possible treatments for the President. Let's get right back to John Harwood. He's got this breaking news coming in. What do you have, John?

HARWOOD: Kate, we don't know if the President will require treatment because if he has mild symptoms, in those cases sometimes they don't. If he does require treatment, we know there are three emergency use treatments available. One is the antiviral remdesivir. The other -- second is the steroid dexamethasone and the third is convalescent plasma.

But what we're hearing from a source familiar with the White House medical unit is that if the President requires treatment or doesn't respond to those treatments, they will be able to get access to treatments that have not yet gotten Emergency Use Authorization by the FDA because it's a case of the President of the United States.

Again, we do not know if he will require any treatment if his case is mild enough that he doesn't. But if he does, in addition to those that have gotten emergency use authorization from the FDA, they will obtain drugs that are being experimented with, being tested that have not yet gotten that Emergency Use Authorization -- Kate.

[15:55:00]

BOLDUAN: And interesting, John, because when asked today about what treatment the President was receiving, no one from the White House is willing to talk about it. And definitely and they're not even talking about it when asked about hydroxychloroquine, which is the treatment that the President has touted so much.

HARWOOD: Exactly. And as far as we know, he remains in the White House residence, and that suggests that he may not require treatment at all at the moment. But if we begin to see that he is moved to a different a location, that's where we could draw the inference that he is getting more intensive treatment of some sort.

BOLDUAN: Great point. Thank you, John, I really appreciate it. I'm Kate Bolduan. Thanks all for joining us.

Much more on this breaking news. THE LEAD picks up after a quick break. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)