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Trump Attempts to Show Strength in Surprise Photo-op; Uncertainty over Trump's Condition after Joyride around Hospital; Trump Claims He's Learned a Lot about COVID as a Patient. Aired 11- 11:30a ET

Aired October 05, 2020 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:12]

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everybody. I'm John King in Washington. Thank you so much for sharing your day with us.

President Trump tweeting up a storm this morning agitating to leave the hospital and get back to the White House. His chief of staff says things look like they're on track for today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK MEADOWS, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF (via telephone): Obviously he continues to improve overnight, and his health continues to improve. The doctors will actually have an evaluation sometime late morning. And then the president, in consultation with the doctors will make a decision on whether to discharge him later today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: We could hear from the president's doctors anytime now. Doctors familiar with COVID-19 say that would seem an early release for a 74- year-old patient we know is getting two experimental treatments. At least twice has needed oxygen to help him breathe. And is taking a steroid generally reserved for serious COVID cases. But the president tells friends he needs to get back to work and back to the campaign.

He tweeted a video Sunday saying, being infected is like going to COVID school. Maybe, but the president is again clearly learning the wrong lessons. He insisted the Secret Service take him for this joyride Sunday. President wanted to wave to supporters outside the Walter Reed Medical Center. Secret Service agents locked inside a bulletproof or medically sealed SUV with a COVID patient.

Dr. Anthony Fauci tells CNN today he's not involved in the president's treatment, but that his doctors are excellent. The president's Sunday drive was four or five days into his symptoms. In other words, way too soon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: The general guidelines are when is it safe for a person to go out from the time they get symptoms is probably around 10 days from the onset of symptoms. You usually have no virus and in the studies that have been done, those people generally are not at all infective to other people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: But of course, we all know the president's coronavirus rule breaking is constant. New Jersey's governor among those furious, the president held a fundraiser at his Jersey golf club after being told a top aide tested positive and that he had clearly been exposed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. PHIL MURPHY (D-NJ): This is -- borders on reckless in terms of exposing people not just in New Jersey, but it looks like for folks around the country who have now scattered, by the way. The folks at the top, beginning with the president, have to set an example.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: The president, though, knows he is losing the election right now. He knows Joe Biden is out campaigning while he is hospitalized with the virus he told us would disappear six months ago. The president's morning tweets, a campaign rally of sorts.

Stock market highs. Vote!

Law and order. Vote!

Space Force. Vote!

You see them all there and so on and so on. Here's though the tough reality 29 days to Election Day. The national coronavirus case count is heading up. 22 states headed in the wrong direction. That means more new infections now compared to last week.

Now the count is usually down on Sundays, 35,000 new cases yesterday more than 300 Americans dying of COVID-19. Yes, the president is proof anyone can get coronavirus but he and his team are also proof, stunning all at once proof that reckless behavior makes it much more likely you will get coronavirus.

The COVID positive list so far, the president, the first lady, the head of the Trump campaign, the head of the Republican Party, the president's personal assistant and three top confidants, Hope Hicks, Kellyanne Conway and former Governor Chris Christie. Two Republican senators who attended the packed White House Supreme Court rollout. Look at that list.

Word from Melania Trump today she will not be leaving the White House while COVID positive because that would unnecessarily endanger others. Is that shade at her husband for his Sunday joyride? Well, we report. You decide. Lives in chaos of course are nothing new at the Trump White House but in this context, with the president COVID positive and an outbreak centered in the West Wing, the confusion has much more significance.

Plus, tensions are running high there because many of those who work for the president say they are getting little information about what happened and what's being done to make their workplace safer. There are some notable changes. Masks are now required in the National Security Council work area and aides were told it is OK to stay home if they are not feeling well.

CNN's John Harwood live for us at the White House. John, we'll hear from the president's doctors any moment now it's possible he could be back to a White House tonight where there's a lot of tension.

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's a lot of apprehension in that building behind me because of the lack of information that staff members have gotten. Even though they, of course, have been people exposed to the virus. And there's so much damage, wreckage around the president, close family members, close aides, close political allies all having been infected.

[11:05:02]

We did get word this morning in a tweet from Melania Trump that she's feeling better and resting at the White House. And of course, there's potentially good news as Mark Meadows indicated for the president himself, he talked about wanting to get out of the hospital today. Don't know if that's going to happen. We'll from his doctors.

The president is trying to convert this into a political advantage, a political argument in that campaign that he is losing, as you mentioned, to Joe Biden, with the president -- Mark Meadows the president's chief of staff telling Fox earlier today that now he understands better what the entire country has been going through. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEADOWS: This president, just like you just said is really not only understanding of what millions of Americans have had to face as they've come into contact with this disease but more importantly the fact that we need to continue to work on therapeutics. His treatment has been remarkable. His strength is incredible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARWOOD: Obviously, therapeutics are important and the improved use of them has led to a decline in mortality over time. What the president has not learned, however, is how to model the kind of leadership that you need to take the country through this crisis.

That information from the doctors, which by all accounts has been directed by the president's wishes himself, and that reckless ride in his armored limousine, exposing members of the Secret Service to additional risk. So, the president may have learned some lessons but not all of them that he needs to, John.

KING: You can make the argument he's learning the wrong lessons. John Harwood, grateful for the live reporting from the White House.

Let's continue the conversation. Dr. Celine Gounder is with us. She is a CNN medical analyst, the former assistant health commissioner for New York City and Josh Dawsey, the great White House reporter for "The Washington Post."

Dr. Gounder, I want to start with you. The president went to the hospital Friday evening. So, he's been there less than 72 hours and they're talking about releasing him which we all hope that the president is well and can be released. I just want to get your sense of whether that seems quick.

We know the president is taking an experimental drug remdesivir. We know he also took an experimental treatment monoclonal antibody. He's on a steroid dexamethasone and several other medications there. Some of them the more routine medications.

Based on -- I know there's a lot we don't know, and I know his doctors have said things that are misleading. But we know he's needed oxygen, at least twice. Does that lead you to believe -- if that were me, if I were this COVID patient, would my doctors tell me less than 72 hours in, you can go home.

DR. CELINE GOUNDER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: John, assuming we have the timeline right, that he got sick Wednesday or Thursday, you would really want to wait between seven and 10 days after symptom onset for two reasons.

One as Dr. Fauci noted it's not until about 10 days out that somebody is no longer infectious to others, from a public health infection control perspective, you would want to keep him in the hospital until then.

But secondly you have sort of two phases of the virus infection. You have the initial week or 10 days or so which is really dominated by the virus itself and then starting around seven to 10 days is where you can have a dysfunctional, hyper-inflammatory immune system response that can occur.

And so, you really, especially in somebody like the president, who's older, who's male, who's obese, all of which are risk factors for this kind of hyper-inflammatory immune response. You would want to keep them under observation in the hospital until then to make sure they don't have an acute decompensation, which typically occurs at 7 to 10 days.

KING: They do of course have a mini clinic at the White House. I should make that clear. Unlike most Americans, the president does have access to some medical facility but it's not nowhere near sophisticated as he has in Walter Reed. I'll come back to you in a second for more on that, doctor.

Josh Dawsey, I want to play a little bit. The part you heard Mark Meadows there saying the president is learning. He understands this better now. The president himself said that last night in a Twitter video he put out. Let's listen to it a little bit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's been a very interesting journey. I learned a lot about COVID. I learned it by really going to school. This is the real school. This isn't the let's read the book school. And I get it and understand it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: The president thinks this helps him politically to show and number one, he's standing there, and he looks better than he did the day before, clearly. But the school part. I - forgive me but I find that a little rich for a guy we know for seven months now doesn't go to most Coronavirus Task Force meetings, doesn't read the brief, mocks his own scientists. So, he had to get COVID to study COVID?

JOSH DAWSEY, CNN POLITCAL ANALYST: Yes, you're right, John. He has squabbled with his own scientists. He has not attended many of the COVID task force briefings. His main dictations to aides has been to reopen the country as soon as possible and to try and you know do whatever it takes to just get the country reopened.

The president is now saying that because of you know his own personal experience that he's more qualified to lead on this virus, that he can now take the message to the country.

[11:10:00]

But critics noted last night, John, that you know minutes after he said he learned about the virus and knew better about the procedures and how to handle it he got into a car with others, you know closed the windows, in close proximity and went on a car ride to greet his supporters.

You know there are other aides I've talked to in the White House. They say masks you know are still not required. Masks are encouraged but not required among the White House staff.

You know it's still a workplace that Joe Grogan, the former head of the domestic policy council, told me this weekend you know it was the most dangerous and unsafe that he had ever worked in. That it just felt unhealthy. People are getting all the time.

You know you have really close quarters in the West Wing. You have a lot of people in small offices. People have this idea of a you know gargantuan sprawling West Wing it's not that. Most people have very limited space and they're all on top of each other.

And that's you know no fault of their own, just how the West Wing works. But that leads to you know dangerous conditions. So, what we're seeing here, you know one person gets it and all of a sudden you have a major outbreak. KING: Right. And whatever people watching think of the president, whatever your politics at home, Secret Service agents, the military aides, the house staff, even the president's staff, these are young people mostly just trying to do the right thing, trying to serve their government, conserve the president. And just Josh notes, they're in very tight quarters.

Dr. Gounder, you gave us an example of a COVID patient chart. So, the president of the United States, these doctors are there right now, we understand. They called the press pool to Walter Reed. We're going to hear from those doctors any minute.

The president we know wants to be released. You gave us this chart. Just walk through what you would be looking if the president were your patient with the symptoms that he has. What would you be going through to decide, OK, how severe of a case is this? And what's my next course of treatment? And can he go home less than 72 hours after checking into the hospital?

GOUNDER: Well, the short answer to that, John, is the president has severe COVID and I would not release him 72 hours into hospitalization. Now in terms of the chart of vital signs and labs and other findings that we look at. We look at the patient's fever curve, whether that fever was on medication, such as Tylenol or ibuprofen or steroids, which can also actually decrease a fever. So, it's very important whether that's on or off medications.

We would be looking at his O2 set, his oxygen saturation, whether that's with supplemental oxygen or not. Whether that's at rest or walking. We would be looking at labs like his white cell count, inflammatory markers, clotting tests and then finally, we would be looking at his imaging. So, chest x-rays, chest CT scans.

One thing that really stuck out to me over the weekend was Dr. Conley and Dr. Dooley's comment about his liver, kidney and cardiac function test. Dr. Conley said the liver and kidney function tests have remained normal. Dr. Dooley said that they had remained normal or were improving. And he had included cardiac testing in that list.

I am concerned that the ultrasound he had was at the heart and we have not gotten any reports as to what that workup was.

KING: Well, that's been part of the frustration, Josh. And again, the president like any patient deserves some privacy but he's the president of the United States. We're 28 days - 29 days to election, countries around the world, friend and foe, watching this. This is just an example yesterday on the question of oxygen. The president needing oxygen. Dr. Conley's answer here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Why were you so reluctant, until today to disclose that the president had been administered oxygen?

DR. SEAN CONLEY, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S PHYSICIAN: That's a good question.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Thank you.

CONLEY: I was trying to reflect the upbeat attitude that the team, the president, this course of illness has had. Didn't want to give any information that might steer the course of illness in another direction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: We just lost Josh Dawsey. So, we'll continue that conversation another day. But that was the president's doctor there. Again, confirming he has misled you about the president's treatment.

Dr. Gounder, before we go how important is that? Just public transparency. And if you don't want to say something, don't say it, but don't mislead.

GOUNDER: I completely agree with that. And if he wants to say, look, doctor-patient confidentiality that is one thing, but I think it's really inappropriate for a medical professional to be misleading the public. Just say you can't answer the question if you don't want to answer it honestly.

KING: We will see. We should hear from the president's medical team a bit later this morning. Dr. Gounder, I'm grateful. Josh Dawsey as well. Had a little technical glitch there.

Up next for us, how coronavirus cases on Capitol Hill could - could jeopardize the GOP's fast track confirmation plan for the president's Supreme Court nominee.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:18:50]

KING: The Democrats say new coronavirus infections among Senate Republicans make it unwise and a near view unsafe to stick to the GOP's fast track Supreme Court confirmation plan. But the Republican leadership says the schedule is not going to change.

Senators Ron Johnson, Tom Tillis and Mike Lee are all COVID-19 positive. Tillis and Lee are on the Judiciary Committee which is set to start hearings on Supreme Court nominee Judge Amy Coney Barrett in one week. The Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer wants a delay and he wants a testing plan for members of Congress.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): It makes no sense. If it's not safe for the Senate to meet in session, it's not safe for the hearings to go forward. I have asked McConnell repeatedly that all senators get tested and all our staff get tested. And so far, he has not gone along with it and I think he's very, very wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Joining us now is the Illinois Senator Dick Durbin. He's a member of Democratic leadership team and also a member of Judiciary Committee. Senator Dick Durbin, grateful for your time today.

Let's start with the confirmation process. And I want you to listen here. This is Senator Lindsey Graham, the chairman of the Judiciary Committee in his debate over the weekend back home in South Carolina says full speed ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): The one thing I want to people to know is that the virus is serious, but we have to move on as a nation.

[11:20:04]

When a military member gets infected you don't shutdown the whole unit. We're going to have a hearing for Amy Barrett, the nominee for the Supreme Court. It will be done safely but I've got a job to do and I'm pressing on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: I know you think it should wait until after election, but the Republicans have the votes and they disagree. I know you think now it's unwise with these infections, but the Republicans have the votes, Senator and they disagree, clearly.

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): John, if this were a baseball team or football team, three of the players tested positive for COVID-19, any responsible caring manager would say enough. We're going to postpone this game until everyone is well. We're not going to endanger the health of anyone. That should be what we hear from Senator McConnell, but not at all. This notion of every senator being tested, and staffers as well is just basic commonsense when you're dealing with a deadly virus.

And I like Lindsey Graham. He's my friend. We worked together on many things, but he has been getting on assignment come hell high water COVID-19 or no COVID-19 finish this in time for November 10th, so the Supreme Court hearing on the future of the Affordable Care Act, we'll have this brand-new Supreme Court justice.

KING: Republicans, I heard Senator Marsha Blackburn making this case this morning. They say, hey look, hopefully those senators are recovered by the time we actually have to have a vote, but we can do the hearings by hybrid if necessary. If you don't feel safe, you can do it by video link and stay out. What's wrong with that plan?

DURBIN: I could just tell you. They are cutting every corner. We have never, in the history of the United States considered a Supreme Court nominee after July 1st of an election year. They are accelerating this to move this through as quickly as possible. As little time as ever when it comes to reviewing the background of this nominee who is seeking a lifetime appointment to the highest court in the land.

Now we're going to do it by remote. We may check in. We may check out. Trust me John, I've been through many of these hearings. If you are not in the room with the nominee or in close proximity you lose a lot in terms of responding to her answers and coming up with the questions that really get to the truth.

KING: I heard you know the Democratic leader there. We played the sound. Chuck Schumer, calling on Leader McConnell to have a better testing plan for the Senate. Democrats run the House and you have the same complaints over there, Senator, directed at the speaker, saying this is nuts, right?

The president of the United States is hospitalized. The head of the Republican Party, the head of the Trump campaign, three of your Republican colleagues in the Senate, three close councils to the president have tested positive for COVID. At least at the White House they have the testing. I don't want to get - you know we can talk about the politics at another time.

Does there need to be a testing regiment and protocol for the members of the Senate and the House and for your staff as well, who put themselves at risk. And do you need to have that yesterday? Why are we still having this conversation?

DURBIN: Absolutely, we need a testing protocol. I have been talking to the attending physician for months about this. It is a major undertaking. There are many people currently working in the Capitol building in a scaled down staff situation. Many who want to return can't because we just don't have a system in place.

We need to take this deadly virus seriously, even if the president does not. I wish him the best in his recovery, the first lady too. But to say nine months into this he's starting to really realize how serious this is. Then he hops in a car and exposes the men and women who are guarding his life to his own infection to go out and wave to the crowds. This president is not in touch with reality. Congress should be. We need testing and every member should have regular testing as well.

KING: The testing part, not my job to get involved in the politics. The testing part just seem nuts for major government institutions installations, should have testing seven months in. Senator Durbin, grateful for your time today. I hope you get the testing and the safety. And we'll deal with the court pick as we move closer, the Republicans say they're not going to change. Appreciate your time, sir.

Coming up for us, coronavirus spiking in some neighborhoods in New York City. The mayor says, he might have to shut things down.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:28:50]

KING: The president says he's learning a lot about COVID as he is hospitalized himself with the coronavirus. If the president is learning, he's looking at the data. He knows his country at the moment headed in the wrong direction.

Let's take a look at the state by state case trend. 23 states right now, 23 states heading in the wrong direction. That means more new infections now compared to the data one week ago.

You see them in the origin, the red. And it is noteworthy, most of them in the northern half of the country where the temperatures are getting colder. We were warned about this by public health officials. And you see it right there. 23 states heading in the wrong direction. 23 holding steady. Only five states reporting fewer new infections now compared to a week ago.

The death trend also, sadly, in the states going up. The count is a little lower but by state, 23 states reporting more deaths this week compared to the data last week. And remember, we know this is a lagging indicator. So, we need to keep an eye on this as we go to 10 states holding steady in terms of the fatality, 17 states are trending down.

Here's the overall trendline of cases. Often cases go down over the weekend. The reporting goes down over the weekend. Saturday was a big number, though, 50,000 cases. Sunday down to 35,000 lower than 50 but still a troubling high number.

You see the case count. This is the summer peak we came down some. We had dipped below 40. Now on average, the seven-day average of cases, call that a plateau, maybe trending back up, but above 40,000 new infections a day.