Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Biden: I'll Do Whatever The Experts Say On Participating In Next Debate; WH Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany Tests Positive For Coronavirus; Uncertainty Over Trump's Condition After Joyride Around Hospital; White House Refuses To Say When Trump Last Tested Negative; U.S. Averaging More Than 43,000 New Cases Daily; Fauci: Contact Tracers Should Absolutely Contact WH Event Attendees. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired October 05, 2020 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

MATT VISER, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: If you're a Biden supporter or even internally in the Biden campaign, you want a couple of more negative results for Joe Biden.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Matt Viser grateful for your insights. And, again, former vice president saying he would debate if the doctor say it's OK, Matt. Thank you.

VISER: Thanks, John.

KING: And hello to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm John King in Washington. Thank you for sharing a very important breaking news day with us.

Another member of the president's inner circle now testing positive for the coronavirus, this time, it's the Press Secretary, Kayleigh McEnany. The COVID positive list in the West Wing so far, the president, the first lady, the head of the Trump campaign, the head of the Republican Party, the President's personal assistant and three top presidential confidants, Hope Hicks, Kellyanne Conway, and Chris Christie. Plus two Republican senators who attended that packed White House Supreme Court rollout last weekend.

Regardless of the positive cases, the president agitating to leave the hospital and get back to the White House. He'll be talking with his doctors later today about a possible discharge, which could put him back in the White House as early as tonight. Now, doctors familiar with COVID-19 say that would seem an early release for a 74-year-old patient we know who is getting two experimental treatments, at least twice has needed oxygen to help him breathe, and is taking a steroid generally reserved for serious COVID cases.

The President insisted the Secret Service taken for this joyride yesterday so that he could wave to supporters outside Walter Reed Medical Center. Secret Service agents locked in a bulletproof, hermetically sealed SUV with a COVID patient.

Dr. Anthony Fauci tells CNN today he's not involved in the president's treatment, but he says the president's doctors are excellent. The president's Sunday drive four or five days into his symptoms, in other words, way too soon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: The general guidelines are, when is it safe for a person to go out from the time they get symptoms. It's probably around 10 days from the onset of symptoms you usually have no virus and in the studies that have been done, those people generally are not at all effective to other people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: The White House Press Secretary, as we noted, Kayleigh McEnany, now the latest in the President's inner circle to test positive for COVID-19. Let's get straight to CNN's Kaitlan Collins, live at the White House. It is a stunning Kaitlan, the building behind you is really a coronavirus hotspot.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we are now seeing how many people have tested positive and the list is continuing to grow. And John, well, we obviously wish Kayleigh McEnany well and that she has a speedy recovery from coronavirus. This is a sign of how the White House thinks that the rules do not apply to them.

Kayleigh McEnany was told on Thursday that Hope Hicks had tested positive and that she was someone who was considered to have direct contact with Hope Hicks. However, she did not quarantine, as is recommended, if you've come into sustained contact with someone who's tested positive.

And instead she relied on negative tests that she took every single day and continued to come to work, as she did on Friday, when she gaggled with reporters outside without a mask and as she did yesterday, as she gaggled with reporters very briefly, probably for about two minutes, but still, once again, taking her mask off as she was approaching the microphone.

And it shows this level of recklessness inside the White House where she is relying on having these negative tests, as you've seen several other officials as well, despite the fact that she did come into contact with someone that we now know, is positive - actually to people, because she was also obviously around President Trump as well and Hope Hicks.

So it just goes to show how the White House has responded to this when everyone else, if you had come into contact with someone who had tested positive and you were told you were a direct contact, you would go into quarantine and she chose not to do that as have several other officials as well.

So it's not just raising concerns about how we're seeing how prolific this outbreak is inside the West Wing and in the president's inner circle, but also how they're responding to it and how they are not doing what medical experts have advised. And instead, they are not isolating themselves when someone tests positive. They continue to come to work because Kayleigh McEnany said she was considered an essential worker and now she's going to have to quarantine and work remotely for the next two weeks.

This also raises questions about other people who have relied on negative tests. The Chief of Staff probably is the first one that comes to mind and his staffer did just say that he has tested negative once again today. But he is someone who has been at Walter Reed with the president.

Yesterday the President did a briefing with his national security adviser and defense secretary virtually. But a picture from the White House shows President Trump receiving the briefing not wearing a mask and it does say in the caption that Mark Meadows was in the room. He says he's was not pictured, but he was in the room as well, and we presume he was wearing a mask. But the president, who we know has coronavirus, wasn't.

So it just raises so many questions about how the White House has responded to this and how they have been irresponsible at best in the way that they have taken these positive cases. And instead of quarantining, like they were told to do, or like they were advised to do by the CDC guidelines, they instead believe that a negative test grants them immunity from coronavirus. And what we are seeing with Kayleigh McEnany testing positive shows that it doesn't.

Now there are a few other officials, John, I just want to note that were pulled off of the trip on Thursday. That was when Hope Hicks was testing positive. McEnany maintains she did not know that Hope Hicks had tested positive when she briefed reporters in the briefing room without a mask on Thursday.

[12:05:00]

But we were told that she was pulled off the trip to New Jersey that day. So there was an inkling that something was going on, yet she continued to hold that briefing. And then we're told she was informed later on that day that Hope Hicks had tested positive.

KING: It's - it is, as you put it, as reckless behavior. Kaitlan Collins, live for us at the White House. Appreciate it. Let's continue the conversation now.

Joining me our Chief Political Correspondent Dana Bash; and Dr. Howard Koh, Professor at Harvard and Assistant Secretary of Health in the Obama administration.

Dr. Koh, I just want to start with you. If you are the White House doctor right now, or if you were working in one of the agencies and the chief of staff called you and said, "What should we do? The president wants to be released from the hospital. He wants to come back to the White House that is clearly a coronavirus cluster point at the moment"

When you see the mounting cases, the president, the first lady, now the press secretary, others who have been in the White House including three presidential confidants, what must be done at the white house right now?

DR. HOWARD KOH, PROFESSOR, HARVARD T. H. CHAN SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Well, John, there's so many issues here at the White House and the White House is actually a microcosm over the last several days of what's happened around the country over many months.

The CDC guidelines are so clear. If a person is diagnosed, they need to be isolated and get the care and treatment they need and deserved. And then people who are exposed should be quarantined for 14 days.

That was not followed at the White House. And then in the meantime, with respect to the president's care, there's so many questions about the status of his condition, how severe his disease is.

One example, John is that he received dexamethasone, which is reserved only for people with severe COVID. So that alone raises concerns about his condition. We need to know a lot more about whether he has pneumonia or not what his lung imaging tests show. So you put that all together, the thought of releasing him today to go back to the White House seems very unrealistic to me and I think all physicians. And we need so much caution right now. Our health is so precious and fragile and it needs to be protected.

KING: It needs to be protected and any president deserves the best protection, obviously, and we'll see - we could hear from the Presidents doctors, any minutes. We know he is agitating to get out of the hospital and come back to the White House.

And Dana that agitation is built on the president thinks it looks weak to be hospitalized. In any case, he thinks he does not want to be hospitalized. It'd look weak 29 days before an election. And so he took a joyride last night, putting two Secret Service agents at deep risk in an SUV. And he tweeted out this video in which the President said, "Having COVID has taught him a lot." Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's been a very interesting journey. I learned a lot about COVID. I learned it by really going to school. This is the real school. This isn't the, let's read the book school, and I get it and I understand it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: What does he get and understand if he's putting those two Secret Service agents at risk, leaving the hospital four, maybe five days into his symptoms, when any doctor would tell you it should be at least 10 days. And when you see as Kaitlan just outlined, the continued behavior at the White House, the president himself, goes to a fundraiser after being told Hope Hicks is positive and that he was definitely exposed. Kayleigh McEnany in the briefing room after being around Hope Hicks and at the White House again yesterday. They have not learned the lessons.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: No, two things. Number one, why is - does it take going to coronavirus - or getting coronavirus to go to school? I mean, he has an entire COVID Task Force that has been set up. Why didn't he go? Why didn't he study, not as a patient, but as a president? That's number one.

But number two, you're absolutely right. He is trying to politically, at least somehow find a silver lining, which is show empathy, show understanding with that statement that you just heard from the president. But you're right, it completely flies in the face of the actions that the president has taken, not just beforehand, which was reckless in going to have a meeting with his own donors in New Jersey, knowing that he was very likely exposed, but even while he is in Walter Reed.

I mean, we've heard from doctors who are working there saying, "Are you kidding me? This is a ridiculous idea to go into his car, which is hermetically sealed with other people." It's just not fair. I mean, look, those Secret Service agents that's what they go in for that. They're trained to take a bullet for the president. But I don't think they trained to take a bullet from the president, and in this case, the bullet being COVID-19.

KING: Well, nobody should have to be put at harm's way, because their boss, or in this case, the person they protect, decides to do something that is reckless. But they have no choice. They have no choice.

[12:10:00]

Dr. Koh, one of the issues here has been transparency. The president's doctor admitting yesterday that he was misleading about certain things, because he wanted to be more upbeat in public and he knows the president watches him on television. Another question that neither the doctor nor anyone else at the White House will answer is, when was the last time the president tested negative for coronavirus? Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: What was the date of the president's last negative test?

DR. SEAN CONLEY, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S PHYSICIAN: I'm not going to get into all the testing going back. But he and all the staff routinely are tested

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I'm not going to give you a detailed readout with timestamps of every time the president's tested. He's tested regularly. And the first positive test he received was after he's returned from Bedminster.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Help a viewer understand why that is critical information, not only as you as a doctor would consider the president's care, when is it safe perhaps for him to leave the hospital? How - when was the last negative test therefore we can grade how severe these symptoms are right now? And for the people who work in that complex, who are not getting information from the chief of staff or from anyone else about the risks in the building? KOH: You're right, John. The question on his last negative test is really important, not just for the president himself, and the future course of his care, but also looking back to see who may have been within six feet of him for more than 15 minutes, and therefore are need to be contacted by tracers, and then potentially quarantined.

When you stop and think about it, there is going to be a massive contact tracing effort that needs to be coordinated right now, not just by the by the White House, but by health officials in DC, and in New Jersey, and in Minnesota, and possibly even Ohio. And so those are a lot of people who have been exposed and many of the highest levels of government. So that's why we need the best care for the president right now from medical terms, but also the best public health interventions with respect to contact tracing.

BASH: Can I just jump in on that, John?

KING: Sure.

BASH: That's not happening. It is not happening. Everybody from our friend, Michael Shear, who is a reporter for The New York Times, who is home, he was on CNN this morning. He is positive with COVID. He has been contacted by nobody. But it's also the case for someone like Chris Christie, who was in debate prep next to the President, has COVID, is in the hospital. He's been called to see how he's doing, but not to see who he's been in contact with.

It isn't happening at all. And this is the white house. This is the highest levels of government that they should know how to do this and it is not happening.

KING: Right. Let me add the governor of New Jersey who said on our air today that they've gotten some names of the people who were at the president's golf club in Bedminster. But the White House, obviously, has contact numbers, e-mails and the like and they haven't passed that information on. As well the Republican Party has them. Dana Bash, Dr. Koh an important breaking story. Appreciate the reporting and their insights.

Up next for us, we continue to track the country's COVID issue, 22 states now reporting rising case numbers. This pandemic showing signs of surging again.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:15:00]

KING: Dr. Anthony Fauci said right here on CNN this morning that he's looking at the numbers when it comes to coronavirus trends across the country, and he is worried. Those numbers we'll explain just why, because he has every reason to worry.

Let's look at the state by state trend right now. 23 states heading in the wrong direction, that's the orange and red on this map. 23 states wrong direction means more new infections now compared to the data one week ago. And you'll notice it's the Northern half of the country where most of these states are trending in the wrong direction. It's getting colder. Public health experts have warned this was coming. Get the baseline down. 23 states heading in the wrong direction. 23, that's the base holding steady. Only five reporting fewer new infections now compared to a week ago.

If you look at the case trend, this was the peak of the summer surge. This was 18,000 or so cases a day back before Memorial Day. You see where we are right now, about 40,000 new infections a day on average. Saturday was down to 35,504. Saturday - Sunday, excuse me. 35; Saturday 50,000 plus. We'll watch this in the week ahead. But the trend line is above 40,000 new infections a day, way too high of a baseline.

The death trend line right now trickling down a little bit. You see 687 on Saturday 337 on Sunday. The counts over the weekend generally are down a bit. We will watch this through the week ahead. But all the experts remind us this is a lagging indicator. If the case count is going up, this will follow. Most of the projections say this will start to head up soon.

If you look at the testing positivity map, the percentage of coronavirus tests coming back positive again, focus on the Northern half of the country, 22 percent positive and Idaho; 16 in Wyoming; 23 percent, South Dakota; 18 percent, Iowa; 17 percent, Missouri; 21 percent, Wisconsin. All of these states, Northern half of the country, high positivity rate, which means more cases today, and more likelihood of more infections tomorrow.

The seven-day average of new cases right now, 43,000. Above 43,000 new infections a day right now. Remember, it was down to 18,000 back in May. 43,000 plus right now, which is doctor - why Dr. Fauci says, I'm really worried.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAUCI: I am certainly not please, satisfied, but I'm actually disturbed and concerned about the fact that our baseline of infections is still stuck at around 40,000 per day. That's no place to be when you're trying to get your arms around an epidemic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Dr. Howard Koh from Harvard School of Public Health is still with us. Doctor just explain - expand on what Dr. Fauci is trying to say there. He has been saying for months you need to shove that baseline down. 43,000 new infections on average a day means we're in a horrible place as it gets colder and people start to go inside.

[12:20:00]

KOH: You are right, John. And Dr. Fauci's comments are very concerning for all of us. For the new cases a day, the numbers you review, remind us that we are double the numbers where we were after Memorial Day. And those numbers should be way down now, because we're heading into flu season. That's another threat for all of us.

A second wave of COVID may be coming as well. And we now have well over 200,000 deaths nationwide since this pandemic started. And some projections are that number may close to double by the end of the year.

So the president's diagnosis is as distressing and as disturbing as it is, hopefully will be a solemn wake up call for the country. We need to double down on public health and prevention. We need universal mask usage. And we need to be as careful as possible about our health as we move forward through the rest of the year.

KING: The question is, will the leadership at the top and people around the country listen? Because experts like yourself have been sounding these alarm for some time. And here's another example. Dr. Scott Gottlieb, the former Commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration in the Wall Street, "Journal failures, compounded failures, and after the shutdowns came a political backlash. As a result, in the 10th month of a public health crisis, there is a grim risk that rising caseloads across the country will turn into a third wave of infection that could end up dwarfing prior surges."

It's that last part, Dr. Koh, could end up dwarfing prior surges. As you noted, we were around 18,000 new infections on average back in May and the summer surge got us up to 70,000 - above 70,000 in some cases. So that's starting from a baseline of 18,000. You get to routinely high 60s, 70,000 new infections a day. If we're starting for a baseline of 44,000. How high could that go?

KOH: Well, the concern here, John, is that those numbers can keep rising, hospitalizations can rise. We know in a typical flu season, we can have hundreds of thousands of people in hospitals and overwhelmed that system even more. So this is a time where we have to rally around and really double down on prevention and public health. That's the message that's been going out for months, but we got to take it really seriously right now.

And so we can - if we rally around and try to do this as the united country, hopefully we can make a difference as the flu season comes and then get a safe and effective COVID vaccine sooner rather than later.

KING: We can - we can all hope for that. Although, we're told that would be end of the year, maybe that the earliest. Dr. Koh, grateful for staying around your patients and your important insights.

Coming up for us, another positive coronavirus case inside the White House. What we know about the contact tracing happening or not happening inside the government.

[12:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Today's breaking news, that the White House Press Secretary also has coronavirus puts a new focus on contact tracing in the West Wing. A source tells CNN Kayleigh McEnany was told she had been in close contact with Hope Hicks and that's why she was pulled off the president's trip to New Jersey on Thursday. This morning, Dr. Anthony Fauci said he's not involved in any contact tracing at the White House. But he did speak more broadly about why this tracing is so critical.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAUCI: When you get cases, if you have a situation where someone comes into contact and is infected, and you know that there are people around him that the important public health measure is to do the identification, isolation and contact tracing so that you can get people who have been exposed to go into the appropriate quarantine, get tested and do the things that are very clearly delineated in the CDC guidelines.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: With us to share some insights and expertise in this area is Emily Gurley. She's an Infectious Disease Epidemiologist with Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. Dr. Gurley, thank you for your time today. Obviously, we have another case in the West Wing. And we know Kayleigh McEnany was pulled off that trip. But then she also briefed.

And if you talk to people around the White House, they say there has been very little, if any, of this detailed contact tracing. Why - explain to viewers why it is so critical.

EMILY GURLEY, INFECTIOUS DISEASE EPIDEMIOLOGIST: So there are really two parts to contact tracing. The first is letting people know that they've been exposed. And these cases are pretty high profile. It does sound like people know that they've been exposed.

But then the second part and the most important part for stopping transmission is quarantine. So when people know that they've been exposed, they should be limiting all their contact with others so that they don't spread the infection further. And this seems to be where the lapse is.

KING: And so I just want to show you the picture. This is a week ago Saturday, the Amy Coney Barrett - Judge Amy Cony Barrett roll out at the White House for the Supreme Court nomination. You see those red circles, all of those people have tested positive.

And just - just to the left center of your screen, you see Kayleigh McEnany. We made this graphic before the program before we knew. There she is there as well. So you have now eight or nine people at this event who've been tested COVID positive.

The White House - the vice president, I'm sorry, Mike Pence is circled there in yellow. He has consistently tested negative. Just looking at this event you have senators, you have cabinet members, you have people from the University of Notre Dame. There are a whole bunch of people - am I right Dr. Gurley? And just in this photo alone, who "A" should be quarantined and "B" should be making a list of who they came in contact with.

GURLEY: That's right. That's the current guidance from the CDC.