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Trump Back at the White House, Again Downplays the Virus; White House Declines CDC Offer to Help with Contact Tracing; President Trump Returns to the White House from Hospital; Biden Suggests Trump is Responsible for Contracting Coronavirus; Pelosi, Mnuchin to Hold Stimulus Talks Again Today. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired October 06, 2020 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:51]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Poppy Harlow.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

Like every day these days there's a lot of news to get to this morning. The president says that he's learned a lot about the coronavirus. All evidence points to the contrary. He is downplaying the virus that has claimed more than 210,000 American lives, a virus that has now infected 35 million people worldwide, telling Americans don't be afraid of COVID, don't let it dominate your life.

But, Poppy, you'll remember he told Bob Woodward in his own words in February it is far more serious, far deadlier than even the most severe flu.

HARLOW: That's exactly right. And he is contradicting that again this morning. He abruptly -- there you have it -- took off his mask for a photo op last night at the White House that has become frankly a fast emerging virus hot spot.

The president's doctors say he's not out of the woods yet and while the nation's top infectious disease doctor, Anthony Fauci, says he did think the president looked, quote, "good," there remains a chance, Fauci says, at this point that his condition could reverse.

There are so many questions this morning and they are questions that Americans deserve answers to. So let's begin our coverage with John Harwood. He joins us at the White House this morning.

John, just important to note, I think the president still has COVID, right? And he's still contagious, right?

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: So given that, what are we expecting from him today?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, we expect from him, today, Poppy, is that the president will endanger the lives of more Americans than he has already. Even though he has no public events on his schedule, he's already been up tweeting the false message that Americans need to learn to live with COVID, that it's less lethal for many populations than the flu.

Of course, that's the false message that he gave earlier in the year. That's contributed to the deaths of 210,000 Americans so far. He has also endangered Americans in close proximity to him by returning to the White House, by removing his mask, by telling people to tough it out. He has put the at-risk White House resident staff, journalists, a growing trail of disease following him among top aides, among top Republican officials.

Now this is a president who's always been concerned about his own needs to the exclusion of those of others, but now he is under the influence of these steroids that he has been taking, dexamethasone, which can cause people to feel that they are invulnerable. So the president continues to try to do something to revive his political campaign, which has been going badly for him.

We do not know as you guys indicated whether or not his own health is going to be on a positive course. His doctors will not say whether or not he has pneumonia or lung damage, and we certainly know that his political health has been deteriorating from this new CNN poll out this morning showing Joe Biden ahead by 16 percentage points, guys.

SCIUTTO: Well, of course, staff in the White House, journalists who cover it, they've got children, they've got grandparents, and of course you expose them, the risk is they then expose their loved ones as well.

John Harwood, thanks very much.

So there is the messaging, there are the words and there are actions, and this next one is an action that is important.

Breaking news from the White House this morning, we're learning that the CDC offered to help with contract tracing around the outbreaks surrounding the president's COVID-19 diagnosis, yet the White House refused that offer. Contract tracing is how you protect other people from being infected, to isolate so that they don't infect more people.

HARLOW: Of course it is. Let's get to our Nick Valencia. He broke this reporting this morning.

Nick, what do we know?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is just another example of the recklessness to which the White House has handled this pandemic. To deny the nation's leading public health agency to do what they're trained to do in contact tracing is just an example of total disregard, according to public health experts I've spoken to this morning. Total disregard by the White House to those who were around the president, and potentially were infected because of his diagnosis.

But according to a federal health official they told us that almost immediately after the president tweeted about his diagnosis he was reached out to by Dr. Robert Redfield to help with such things as contact tracing.

[09:05:07]

That offer was repeated on a phone call yesterday, according to a federal health official, and the White House rejected those offers. You know, this is another example, as I mentioned, of the recklessness but it really goes to show that there hasn't been a comprehensive contact tracing plan by the White House all reporting -- colleagues of mine at the White House unit, their reporting has shown that there's been more than a few phone calls to those who have been at exposed events like the one that we saw last Saturday during the Supreme Court nomination ceremony where it's believed that many people were exposed to the coronavirus.

This is just really upsetting to a lot of people in the public health community -- Jim and Poppy.

HARLOW: Nick, before you go, just one question here because some of your reporting is also that there is a CDC epidemiologist detailed to the White House. Are they leading this charge?

VALENCIA: That's right. A CDC epidemiologist has --

HARLOW: Is it just --

VALENCIA: Yes, a CDC epidemiologist has been detailed since March, however, one person, Poppy, to try to manage a very comprehensive contact tracing plan, you know, the White House, they did release a statement to us pushing back on this federal health official saying, just very quickly guys, here, "The White House has plans and procedures in place that incorporate current CDC guidelines and best practices for limiting COVID-19 exposure and has established a robust contact tracing program led by the White House Medical Unit with CDC integration."

They finished the statement by saying, "Contact tracing has been conducted by the White House Medical Unit consistent with CDC guidelines and appropriate notifications and recommendations that have been made."

What is said matters, though, Jim and Poppy. You read into this statement very clearly, they say they are going about consistent with CDC guidelines, not saying, though, that the CDC is helping with contact tracing -- Jim and Poppy.

HARLOW: Nick, important reporting. Thanks for bringing it to us.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And we know some of the journalists infected in the White House, who cover the White House, were not contacted as of yesterday by the White House.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Let's speak more about this with Dr. Ashish Jha. He's dean of the Brown University School of Public Health. Dr. Jha, good to have you on this morning. You know, concern

throughout this, right, weeks and months, has been, will politics infect the science on real and impactful decisions? And in the last 24 hours we've seen two examples that seem to indicate that's happening. One, the White House refusing the CDC's help, it's their job to contact trace to prevent more people from being infected, guys like those who have it from this White House hot spot, but also pressuring the FDA on what's going to constitute a safe vaccine.

As a doctor and epidemiologist, how concerned are you here and how should viewers then take this?

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Yes, good morning and thank you for having me on. This is obviously concerning. You know, there's been politicization of the science, going back all the way to February, and so this is the latest manifestation of that. There are two points here that I think -- that you raise, first on the White House contact tracing. CDC is the gold standard premiere agency that does this and they should absolutely be driving this.

And this is not just to figure out who was infected and who was not, but it's to stop the spread of the disease. The reason we do contact tracing is it breaks the chains of transmission. If we don't we're just going to see more people get infected and get sick. So that really is unacceptable that they're not doing it.

On the FDA it's a similar issue. The FDA has very basic standards that they have laid out for evaluating the effectiveness and safety of a vaccine. It's not really clear why the White House gets to weigh in on this, why political people get to weigh in on what the FDA scientists are arguing. We've got to listen to the science.

HARLOW: Dr. Fauci, the lead epidemiologist on all of this, said this last night to our Chris Cuomo.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: The issue is that he's still early enough in the disease that it's no secret that if you look at the clinical course of people, sometimes when you're five to eight days in you can have a reversal. His physicians -- a reversal meaning going in the wrong direction and getting into trouble.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: How common are reversals like that, and is the president at more risk being back at the White House and not at Walter Reed?

JHA: So reversals like that are common. We definitely see people five, eight, up to 10 days out from their initial infection or certainly even after their symptoms who can take a turn for the worse. And so it is absolutely critical that we continue to monitor him very closely.

You know, he's at the White House, which is not like any home I have ever lived in, right? Like 24/7 nursing-doctor care. So he's essentially functionally at a hospital. So I'm not as worried about where he is, but it is really important to know he's not out of the woods.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Let me ask you this going forward because a vaccine of course is going to be essential. Everybody is looking forward to that moment, right? They're looking forward to the moment when the science shows it's safe. But a new CNN poll shows that now it's down to 51 percent of Americans who say they will take the vaccine when it's out. I mean, that's far below the efficacy rate necessary to make the vaccine work across the population.

[09:10:06]

What are we going to do about that?

JHA: Yes, absolutely. Look, I think we -- I would have taken a vaccine yesterday if it was safe and effective.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

JHA: We've got to wait for that to show up because if we -- I believe that if the vaccine process, which has been driven by science so far, is allowed to continue that way and we have scientifically credible findings that the vaccine is safe and it works, I think the number of Americans who are going to take it is going to be much higher than that.

I think what you're seeing is a reflection that the concerns Americans have that the White House is overruling the FDA, that's not how we do these things and we shouldn't start doing that now.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: There is a new study out from Northwestern just out this morning that shows that in the course of their COVID illness 82 percent of patients had experienced some neurological symptoms. So headaches or altered brain function in structure. And I ask you that in terms of what does that mean with a president who has COVID right now? Like what really are those potentially lasting neurological impacts?

JHA: Yes, whether they are lasting or not we don't know because, again, we haven't had long-term follow-ups, but you're absolutely right. This study raises something that a lot of us have been concerned about which is a good proportion of people end up having neurologic symptoms, sometimes it's transient, it lasts a day or two and it gets better, sometimes it's longer lasting, sometimes it can be severe.

This is something his doctors obviously have to pay close attention to, but also if it begins to impair his judgment then I think we have to -- you know, people have to pay attention to that to know whether Vice President Pence needs to step in at some point. But I don't know -- I obviously am not involved in his care, I can't make that judgment call. That's really going to be important for his doctors to assess. SCIUTTO: Dr. Jha, you've watched his doctors gives those

pronouncements from Walter Reed and elsewhere, even one of them admitting at one point that he kind of colored the data on the president in a positive way because he just wanted to kind of put out a good message.

How did the doctors perform here? I mean, we expect them, if no one else, to stick to the science and the medicine?

JHA: Yes, so the doctors at Walter Reed, the physicians who have been taking care of him at Walter Reed, I think have done an excellent job. They're some of the best doctors in the country. Obviously they're also getting input from doctors from Hopkins.

I think the problem here is Dr. Conley has been evasive, he's been unhelpful, he's been a cheerleader. Look, we all want to be cheerleaders for our patients, but straightforward honest communication with the American public is what the American people deserve. And unfortunately Dr. Conley has not given that and I think it really has harmed his credibility.

HARLOW: Dr. Jha, we're grateful for you each and every day you're on. Thanks very much for that.

JHA: Thank you.

HARLOW: Ahead a brand-new video from former first lady Michelle Obama. She takes on the president, calls him a liar, negligent, and she rips into his response to the pandemic. She's taking her message to the American people. You'll see that new video in just a few moments.

SCIUTTO: And the White House is now battling its own outbreak of coronavirus. A hot spot there in the White House. Will that impact our national security?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:15:00]

HARLOW: Twenty eight days, can you believe it? Twenty eight days until the election, that's it. There are, as you know, people currently -- a lot of them currently voting and the president, a current coronavirus patient who is on oxygen twice and is right now taking a steroid meant for patients facing the worst of the virus, he is downplaying the severity of it.

SCIUTTO: Yes, with us now is Errol Louis, political anchor for "Spectrum News", host of the podcast "You Decide". Also with us, Margaret Talev, she's politics and White House editor for "Axios". Thanks to both of you.

Margaret, I want to begin with you, if I can. You've covered this White House for some time, you were head of the White House Correspondents Association. I can't count the number of times during the last four years where we've heard of some advisors to the president, always unnamed, saying they've been privately encouraging him to take a different tact, to sort of moderate, to show more empathy, et cetera. And we heard that again following the president's COVID diagnosis. Of course, the president emerges, goes back to his old line, this is nothing, forget the masks, et cetera.

Is anyone telling him to moderate at this point, and should we just buckle down and say the next four weeks are going to be like we've seen for the last four years?

MARGARET TALEV, POLITICS & WHITE HOUSE EDITOR, AXIOS: Jim, can the answer be yes to both questions? Because I think --

SCIUTTO: Sure --

TALEV: That is what's going on. There are people inside the White House trying to guide the president to a better place for himself, for the staff and for the country. But there's also a wide recognition that he is the president and he's going to be the way he wants it to be, and so, and there's not the strongest push back is not at the top. So, we're not seeing the chief of staff sit down with the president --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

TALEV: And say, enough, we have to totally re-erect this. That's not what's happening. So, our reporting from last night was that already steps were being taken to try to figure out where in the West Wing compound, the president would move to because he will leave the residence. That's certainly his plan even like sort of immediately upon his return. So the discussions that we were hearing at that point, my colleague Alayna Treene reporting was that he was being advised not to enter the Oval Office --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

TALEV: But that steps were being made to prepare the diplomatic room to be available for him to do videos, tweets and work. And so like immediately, we were expecting him to leave the residence.

SCIUTTO: Yes --

HARLOW: Errol, this morning, the president with a -- in an astonishing tweet -- and at the end of it, he says you know, "we've learned to live with it", being the flu, "just like we're learning to live with COVID in most populations far less lethal."

[09:20:00]

Not only is that not accurate as Jim pointed out rightly before, it contradicts what he told Bob Woodward in the interview back in -- back in --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

HARLOW: February. And I ask you this because Ed Rollins; the co- chairman of the Pro Trump Super PAC, Great America, said this to "The Washington Post", quote -- now about the Republican Party, quote, "now we're sort of the stupid party. Candidates are being forced to defend themselves every day on whether they agree with this or that in terms of what the president did on the virus." That is from a Republican leading a pro-Trump Super PAC. Do you have any reporting on the impact on the party?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, the impact on the party -- we'll know definitively on November 3rd. But all of the early polling suggests that this is going to be a problem for many candidates.

If you're in a relatively small congressional district, you can be anti-science, you can follow along and play along and play cleanup for the president no matter what ridiculous comment comes out of his Twitter feed. If you're running for Senate on the other hand, if you're dealing with large numbers of people, if you're dealing with a serious and sober electorate which is really what the polling suggests we're going to have going into this election, people are not ready for this foolishness.

And up and down the ballot, what we've seen in past elections, and I think we're going to see in this election, is that not everybody can do what Trump does. You know, Trump can put out a tweet, saying something that is absolute nonsense, comparing it to the flu yet again, a fatal and flawed analysis and a dangerous course of action that's being suggested, and he can get away with it. But when other people try it, it really doesn't work --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

LOUIS: Because voters can see them, most politicians I think also no matter how conservative they are, they really want to be a little bit consistent, they really want to be a little bit truthful, they don't want to be held responsible for maybe leading people to a dangerous course of action. The president, though, is sort of one of a kind. He says --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

LOUIS: What he says and he doesn't really care.

SCIUTTO: Well, and the comparison to the flu is factually false. I mean, I'll share the numbers on Twitter, but in fact, the number of deaths is five -- so far equal to five -- the five past flu seasons combined. Anyway, those are the numbers. Margaret Talev, I want to play how Joe Biden is approaching this, particularly on the question of masks. Have a listen and then I'll ask you a question.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE FOR 2020: Anybody who contracts the virus by essentially saying masks don't matter, social distancing doesn't matter, I think is responsible for what happens to them. As president of the United States, I would make a federal mandate on federal property, federal buildings, you must wear a mask, period, and you must be socially distant.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SCIUTTO: Tell us about the politics of that now because we know

there's a portion of this country that believes masks are somehow an infringement. They buy the president's line, but polls consistently show a majority agree masks work.

TALEV: That's right. There is a minority of the population that still doesn't want to wear masks, but that is becoming a smaller and smaller share over quite some time now. I think Joe Biden is trying to show a contrast, and he's repeatedly asked, he was asked again last night in that town hall, meaning, well, can you -- what power do you have to enforce a federal mask mandate, and he's acknowledged not -- he doesn't, but he wouldn't, except for on federal property.

But his point is to say that the president should set an example through the actions that the president can take and then that the president should convene governors, mayors, what have you, even from states where there might be less support for this, and say this is the right thing to do and apply pressure.

And Trump has obviously -- I mean, I can't think of no clearer contrast than this side-by-side. The president returning from the hospital -- literally, from the hospital, climbing stairs he never climbs, standing between two flags and taking off the mask.

So, these are the closing arguments, we'll see the president now in the next few weeks try to make this case that it's actually a good thing he got it, he might be, you know, more -- somehow more immune now, and that he can lead by experience.

And Biden going to make the opposite argument and drive into it, that's nonsense. This could have been avoided with masks use and American lives could have been saved with masks use. I think those are the real stark contrasts, but what's so telling and startling is that, you guys have a new poll out, we've done polling as well.

While the national polling shows Biden's lead expanding, it's much tighter in the swing states, and it's not really -- it's not like white non-college educated men are changing their minds about President Trump, that's not what's happening, it's that the two sides are hardening and women, people of color, some white voters with college educations, they're the ones breaking more solidly in Biden's direction now.

[09:25:00]

SCIUTTO: We'll continue to follow those, Errol Louis, Margaret Talev, thanks to both of you.

TALEV: Thanks.

HARLOW: Well, the former first lady Michelle Obama has some pretty strong words this morning for the president and for his administration's response to coronavirus.

SCIUTTO: Also moments away from the opening bell on Wall Street. Stocks look to start the day mixed. Investors are watching for any developments on President Trump's health now that he's out of Walter Reed, back at the White House, as well as status of the stimulus talks between House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin. The two sides are set to talk by phone today, will they make progress?

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