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CNN Poll: Biden Builds National Lead as Election Looms; Trump Continues to Downplay Coronavirus after Leaving Hospital; Trump Tweets He's "Feeling Great" and Looking Forward to Debate Next Week. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired October 06, 2020 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:25]

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everybody. I'm John King in Washington. Thank you so much for sharing a very busy news day with us.

We're now four weeks from Election Day. And we have fresh evidence today that more and more of you want a new president and don't trust much of what you hear from the incumbent whose White House right now is a coronavirus hotspot.

Here's the headline number from our new CNN poll. The former Vice President Joe Biden has his largest lead of the 2020 campaign cycle, a 16-point national advantage over President Trump.

Democrat Biden campaigning in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania today. He will call for national unity in this time of coronavirus crisis and he will do so in a key area of a vital swing state.

President Trump is out of the hospital but still confined to the White House. His campaign sees the chance to use his COVID infection as a springboard to a giant come back, show empathy, and a new understanding of the pandemic's pain is the campaign idea. But the president is again writing his own script. And if you had to describe it in one word your leading options would be reckless, dangerous, dishonest also comes to mind.

It is reckless to rip off your mask when you are COVID positive and close to others. That at a White House that right now is a coronavirus cluster. It is dangerous. As we learned this morning, to reject the CDC offer to help contact trace that Supreme Court rollout, you see it right there. That event now tied to at least 10 new coronavirus cases. And it is dishonest, by definition, to say something you know is not true.

The president tweets this morning, we should just live with COVID like we live with the flu. That same president, remember, told journalist Bob Woodward eight months ago he had been briefed that this coronavirus was far more deadly than the flu. The tweet this morning is another lie but it fits perfectly with the alternative facts and in the alternative reality the president wants you to embrace, even if that puts you at risk.

His return from the hospital last night was true reality TV, which is to say, facts are optional. The president is on experimental medications most people can't get. He has a doctor on call at home 24 hours a day and a clinic in the White House basement, not to mention a helicopter to rush him back to the hospital if needed. But he wants you to think he is just like you and if he can stare down COVID, so can you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Don't let it dominate you. Don't be afraid of it. You're going to beat it. And I know there's a risk, there's a danger, but that's OK. And now I'm better and maybe I'm immune. I don't know. But don't let it dominate your lives. Get out there, be careful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: The president's doctor say he is doing better but hardly out of the woods. Well, nor is the country. New infections are at a troubling high-level heading into the cold months when such viruses thrive.

Joe Biden says Americans must not believe the president when he suggests through his words and in his actions that this is no big deal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I hope no one walks away with the message thinking that it is not a problem. It's a serious problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: It is a serious problem. Let's just go through some of the numbers as the former vice president now leading in this race four weeks to go says don't listen to the president when he talks about the coronavirus.

Let's just look at the map here. Here's a somewhat different way to look at. This is coronavirus by county across America if you are red or orange, it is bad, right? Look how deep the red is here across the southeast part of the state. Most, just to note, four weeks to the Election Day, states that support President Trump.

This is deaths per 100,000 residents. Again, the deeper the red, the higher the rate of coronavirus. Look at it here. Look at it up here in the plains. Coronavirus is everywhere in America. Not everybody in America has a helicopter or a doctor on call 24 hours a day.

The death rate at the moment is down some, 460 deaths recorded yesterday, down some but that's still a miserably high number. You see averaging over 1,000 deaths through most of the summer. And most of the projections because of the cases right now, most of the projections are sadly that the death toll will start to tick back up as well.

And then there's the economic impact. We are still 10.7 million fewer jobs. 10.7, nearly 11 million jobs missing from the economy. Jobs that were there in February wiped out by the coronavirus still not back. And 31 percent of Americans tell - Stanford University researchers, they cannot fully work from home.

The pain of the pandemic is not just the public health crisis. It's an economic problem as well. And this, the president's tweet this morning, this is simple math. It's just simple math. It is not like COVID. The flu is not like COVID.

[11:05:00]

Back in 2017, 2018, 61,000 people that's a big, sad number, died from the flu. COVID in 2020, we're not done yet, 210,000 you don't need to be a rocket scientist. It's a bigger number right here. A new poll out today says 21 percent of Americans do say they're more

Don't need to be a rocket scientist. It's a bigger number here. A new Ipsos poll out - Axios-Ipsos poll out today, says 21 percent of Americans do say they're more likely to wear a mask or social distance after the President Trump's diagnosis. The president though says or trying to say, get out there, live your life, you can fight COVID just like I did. Listen to some family members of people - people here who have lost family members to this horrible pandemic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATIE COEHLO, LOST HER HUSBAND TO COVID-19: My husband fought COVID. My husband wanted to come home, and he deserved it.

FIANA TULIP, LOST HER MOTHER TO COVID-19: My mom did not want to leave this earth. She had a grandchild for the first time in 64 years, and she was so excited to spend her first birthday with her grandchild on August 25th. She didn't get to because she died on July 4th. She didn't want to die. She didn't deserve to die.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Joining me now to continue this conversation, our CNN medical analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner. He's a professor of medicine at George Washington University. And White House reporter for "The Washington Post," Toluse Olorunnipa.

Doctor, I want to start with you, and I'm sad I have to do this, but the president of the United States in his tweet this morning we'll get to what we saw last night and the recklessness of that in a moment. But in the tweet this morning, just for anybody watching out there when the president says go about your business, it's just like the flu. Please tell them how wrong that is.

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Incredibly wrong. So, the flu doesn't require you to get three experimental drugs and be typically flown emergently to Walter Reed. It is true that the flu can kill and does kill Americans every year. In 2018 through 2019, 37,000 Americans died from the flu. That's a big number. 210,000 Americans have died from COVID-19 in the first nine months of this year. So just look at those -- just look at those numbers. We think a best case estimate right now of the case fatality rate is somewhere around 1 percent. We don't know precisely because we don't know the denominator. We don't really know exactly how many people have been infected but if you look at a case fatality rate of around 1 percent, the seasonal flu has a case fatality rate of around 0.1 percent. So even if you use a more optimistic estimate for the mortality rate for COVID-19, COVID-19 is many times more lethal than the flu. That's not even close.

KING: It's not even close. And so, now, I want to stay with you for a minute, Dr. Reiner, because we don't really know a lot about the president's condition. We did see him last night. He walked off the helicopter. He walked up to the balcony. He went back out after his display last night and redid it again with a camera crew, I assume for a campaign ad.

But I want you to just listen to Dr. Fauci here. As you know the president is on drugs that most patients can't get. And I think we all wish the president and any COVID patient well but Dr. Fauci says we need to be careful for a while.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Sometimes when you're five to eight days in you can have a reversal. This position is not a reversal, meaning going in the wrong direction and get into trouble. It's unlikely that it will happen, but they need to be heads-up for it. You're not out of it until you've gone several days out and doing well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: And yet one of the president's campaign spokesmen was on Fox News just moments ago saying the president is eager to get on the campaign trail. The president tweeted just moments ago he's looking forward to a debate a week from Thursday with Joe Biden. Is that reasonable and feasible?

REINER: I think it's certainly not reasonable. Look, John, we don't really know how far into the president's illness he really is because we don't know because the White House refuses to tell us when the president last tested negative. So, he might be still in the very beginning stages of his illness if, indeed, he was negative on Wednesday and became positive on Thursday. That would make, though, the cadence of his illness, the requirement for the hospitalization very unusual. I think it's much more likely that the president hasn't been tested in days and he's much further on into the illness, which would explain maybe why he's doing better now and why he got sick at the end of the week.

But that piece of information would let us know. The other piece is that there are so many people around the president who have been infected, he in essence is patient zero and in fact might have been patient zero at that SCOTUS event. Because so many people have been exposed and now, we know infected.

[11:10:00]

I don't think it's safe to bring a presidential entourage to a debate next week because the people surrounding him may be infected. If I were the Biden campaign I would only debate in a closed studio via video link.

KING: We'll see what happens in the days ahead with that one. It's supposed to be a town hall with voters in the room as well. Which actually adds to the consequences if you think about it.

So, Toluse, let's talk about right now the president's event last night it was a made for TV event to say I beat COVID, I'm back on the job, I will soon be back on the campaign trail. But as you note in your great reporting today, this is just a piece of it, President Trump began discussing with officials Sunday when he could return to the campaign trail and how. Aides said the diplomatic reception room and map room are being prepared for workspaces for President Trump at the White House where many staff members have opted to work from home in the coming days.

The West Wing is a total ghost town said one official who worked at the White House on Monday. So, he is on the residence side of the building. He is still COVID positive. Anyone working near him is a risk but they're trying to project this, we got this.

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, they're trying to project a sense of confidence, a sense of victory over this virus, even though it continues, as you mentioned, to kill hundreds of Americans every week. The president is in a unique position because he's been able to have the best medical care, able to get the experimental drugs, he's been able to have an opportunity to be cared for 24 hours a day, even while he's quarantining at home. But the White House wants to show that the president is back out there, that he's back in the game. He's been talking incessantly about his campaign, even while he was at the hospital looking at polling numbers, looking at campaign strategy for the final stretch of the race.

And the president wants to be back out there, holding rallies, holding events even though at this moment he continues to be contagious and continues to be infectious. So, we see in his tweets sort of this downplaying of the virus, talking about the flu not being you know something that causes us to shut everything down saying it's not that bad, saying you know we have all these therapeutics and drugs and everyone should get back to normal but it's clear that looking at polling and looking at what the American people are saying, they don't trust the president's view on this. They don't believe the president is leveling with them, they don't believe this downplaying is going to help them get back to work or get back to school. And that is his biggest Achille's heel in the weeks of the campaign.

KING: You mentioned the trust question. No matter how you look at it, here's just one from our new poll: Do you trust most of what you hear about Trump's health from the White House? Only 30 percent of Americans say yes. That means even some of the president's base doesn't trust what they're hearing from the White House. 69 percent say no.

And Toluse, we watch the campaign impact of this, we don't know we're four weeks away from election. But we do know if you look at our new poll, the NBC/Wall Street Journal poll, the state polls that have come out. The last week has been horrific for the president, there was the disclosure he pays little or nothing in taxes, he had a horrible debate. He had a coronavirus outbreak at the White House traced to the Supreme Court event, Dr. Reiner talked about. Then he himself got COVID and was hospitalized.

And Joe Biden seeing what the president did last night ripping off his mask. He tweeted out a video that shows the two of them side by side. The president ripping off his and Joe Biden wearing his. Some of the campaign, they can use this as a comeback effort. All of the numbers on our new poll suggest to me that the American people in the last week enough of them have just said enough.

OLORUNNIPA: Yes. This defiant approach works for a small sliver of the American public, the president's hard-core base. This works for them, they like seeing the president kind of trying to downplay this virus or saying it's not a big deal, you don't need to wear a mask, I'm defiant and fighting against the disease, it's a very small sector of the American public.

We've seen in polling, it's not enough to get you to 270 electoral votes. He needs to expand his base. He hasn't been doing that. He's doubling down on this denial approach that has led to more than 210,000 deaths and has allowed the virus to continue spreading for the last seven months. So, the president needs to win, independents needs to win, moderates needs to win, senior citizens who were disproportionately impacted by this disease and he's not doing anything to win them over.

He's instead making it seem like he's not caring about the troubles that they're going through. And the fact that they have to deal with this virus. They're not being able to go to work or to school, and they have to shelter in place and the fact he's not having to quarantine, makes people wonder why he's not treating this as seriously as he should.

KING: Telling the truth and behaving responsibly might be building blocks on that path but the president doesn't listen to his own campaign. He's not going to listen to me or to Dr. Reiner or to Toluse. Gentlemen, thank you both for your time and your important insights here.

In a related development Facebook is now removing the president's false statement he posted this morning in which he claims the seasonal flu is deadlier than COVID-19. A spokesman says the comment violates Facebook's policy on misinformation.

Let's check in with CNN's Donie Sullivan who is tracking this. In this case Donie, we've talk about this before where things stay up a while. This is pretty quick.

[11:15:00] DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN REPORTER: Yes, John. This is pretty quick. And you know Trump himself has, by his own admission, downplayed the seriousness of this virus and given the fact now that is going to become a real central component of his campaign, it's really putting him on a collision course with Facebook and Twitter. So, this morning Trump posted on both platforms, basically equating the coronavirus to the seasonal flu, falsely doing so. Twitter -- both companies have rules against COVID misinformation that could cause harm.

And John, you and I talk a lot about when it comes to voter misinformation or manipulated videos that the campaign and Trump himself might sometimes tweet. We'll often see that Twitter and Facebook put those tiny little labels on them. That's perhaps a politically prudent move on the company's part because they can say they're doing something or all to not removing the president's posts. With this, however, their rules are clear.

COVID misinformation is not allowed and it's going to be taken down. We have yet to hear from Twitter however, I'm guessing they are still figuring out what to do. The post is still live up on Twitter. But you know as we see, you know Trump who has the virus himself now and who is going to be doubling down in how he downplays this virus, we're going to probably see this a lot more in the next few weeks. And this I think is going to be one of the defining challenges for these companies and how they handle misinformation in the final weeks of the election. John?

KING: In the blizzard and blur of the final four weeks. Donie O'Sullivan, appreciate the hustle on the reporting there. Keep an eye on Twitter and let us know if they make a change as well.

When we come back, the new CNN poll shows Joe Biden with the biggest lead of the 2020 campaign. We'll take you inside the numbers and explain just why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:21:05]

KING: We count votes four weeks from today, Election Day. Our new CNN poll tells us the events of the past week are putting more of you in the mood for a new president. Let's take a look at the numbers, straight up on the horse race number in the race.

It is not just that Joe Biden has a 16-point lead, 57 percent to 41 percent, the largest lead for Democrat Biden in this election cycle. But it's not just the size of it. Joe Biden well above 50 percent. That's where you want to be, get a majority support. Well above 50 percent. The president stuck just above 41 percent. This is a national poll but a big number, a big double-digit lead like this. You can watch it and say that it matters.

Now, you look through, why are people breaking for Joe Biden late in this race? Well, they trust him by a lopsided margin to handle racial equality. They trust him by more than 20 points to handle the pandemic. The number one issue in the country right now. They trust him by 20 points. They think he's better to handle health care. They trust him more on crime and safety.

The only place the two candidates are essentially tied is on the economy. Joe Biden on the issues lopsided edge over the president heading into the final weeks. And then, part of picking a president is who is this man? Do I want this man in the White House? Look at these character questions, can he unite the country, lopsided by an advantage.

Is he trust worthy, speaks for itself, 25 points -- by 25 points voters, you, view Joe Biden as more trustworthy, more honest than Donald Trump, cares about people like you, again 20 point advantage there, has a plan for problems facing the country, 15 point lead for Biden there, 16 points. Keep the United States safe, again, a double- digit lead. On the character questions as well as the policy questions, Joe Biden with a lopsided lead heading in to the end.

Now, you might say that's a national poll. What about the key states? Remember 2016? We have to go state by state. Well, look at this. Brand-new Pennsylvania poll, comfortable Biden lead. Very Recent Arizona poll, fairly comfortable Biden lead. Florida poll, small but Biden lead. Ohio, a state Republican absolutely have to win, a tie there. Joe Biden is competitive in Ohio. The candidates fighting it out, one of the interesting things is President Trump has less money. He's not advertising in Ohio at the moment, for example. Both campaigns going at it hard in Pennsylvania.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY JEFFERSON, BUSINESSMAN: COVID has affected my business in such a large way. To not be able to work for over three months, I lost eight employees. They had no other choice. It was heart breaking for me. Trump does not see me. I don't understand how he can look himself in the eye.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Trump delivered on the impossible in his first term and in his second term he will continue to fight for you. President Trump will end our alliance on China, eradicate the coronavirus, and make our medicines and supplies here in the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: With us to share their insights, Democratic pollster Margie Omero, and Republican pollster Neil Newhouse is joining us by the phone. We got a technical issue there. Margie, let me start with you. In a sense that when you see this, that giant national lead but then more importantly to me was when you go through the issues and the personal characteristics what is it that caused this break? It doesn't mean it can't swing back, but what is it in your view that in the past week to 10 days has caused this break?

MARGIE OMERO, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER: I mean, what hasn't caused the break. You had the president show multiple times every day how concerned he is about himself only ahead of everyone else. Whether it's the debate, whether it's exposing his staff and family and people who work with him and numerous other reporters to the coronavirus and now the way he's handling it not in any way focused on the facts or on science and also at the same time seeming to indicate that only tough people survive and make it through the coronavirus.

And what does that say to the hundreds of thousands of families who have lost someone to the coronavirus? So, there's been an -- not to mention, now it seems like a long time ago, the tax story. So, where he's just time and again really put himself first rather than the country or anybody else.

[11:25:05]

And so, I think you see people really responding to that. I mean you see people saying this is not something we want out of our president. What we want is someone who's going to really focus on us and what we're going through. And he's really only focused on what he's going through.

KING: Neil, the Trump campaign has this idea that yes, it's a significant deficit right now but the president came back to the White House last night, he's going to try to get back on the campaign trail. Their plan is to have the debate a week from Thursday. We will if that happens. It's supposed to be a town hall. They have decided that they can be the comeback kid, if you will, by projecting the president is victorious over COVID.

We'll see what path his health takes but the voters seem to have made the wrong decision here. Did Trump act responsibly in handling the COVID-19 infection risk for people around him? Responsibly 35 percent. Irresponsibly 62 percent. How does the president, if you look at all of these numbers, it appears to me that in the last week to 10 days, a decent amount of people have said enough? How does president turn that?

NEIL NEWHOUSE, REPUBLICAN POLLSTER (via telephone): No question yet, Margie has highlighted the key points, which is over the last nine or 10 days, his tax returns came out, the debate occurred, and then the president caught COVID. It may be -- we have to wait and see but it could be the straw that broke the camel's back.

What we've seen, generally most presidents get what they get in the polling. And we've seen some disparity on those numbers as over the last few weeks but right now you saw in your own CNN poll, the president sitting at 40 percent approval, assuming 39 percent of votes. It feels like that there is at least potential Trump fatigue where voters are a little, you know, kind of anxious about the chaos and what's going on, and they're reverting to if they approve of the job he's doing they're re-electing, if they don't, they're voting for Joe Biden.

And as far as the president. The president has decided I think they're doubling down and tripling down on his position on COVID. It's as simple as that. And he wants to tell people that he has it under control, that he beat it, they can beat it too. He wants to encourage and try to be upbeat. Whether that's going to resonate or not, I don't know. KING: It strikes me, forgive me, and Margie to you first on this one. It's like a Wizard of Oz moment. That the president is going to say to the voters I'm doubling down on COVID, as Neil just put it. trust me and change my numbers. It's a pay no attention to the man behind the curtain moment. In the Wizard of Oz when people already his approval - overall approval is 40 percent as Neil Noted, disapproval 57 percent. On Coronavirus handling, 38 percent of Americans approve, 59 percent of Americans disapprove.

Can you keep doing the same thing and change your numbers? It seems to me to be completely counter intuitive to think I can double down or triple down, and people are going to change their minds?

OMERO: He wanted, I guess, wanted to avoid seeming weakened by doing what one should do with the coronavirus and you're not feeling well and go to the hospital. So, he wanted to create this image of strength and, in fact, he created further weakness. He demonstrated his further -- even more -- you know, even more clearly highlighted his lack of grasp on the facts and the fact that he's disconnected from reality and exposed people all around him -- numerous people all around him and setting an image, you know, setting an example for folks who may, themselves now further expose people in their communities around the country.

Thankfully, as you talked about before, only 12 percent say they really trust seriously what the health information they're getting at in the White House. I hope people are not looking at what the president is doing and saying that's what I should do also. I hope people are, and polls suggest that they are taking more action than they see the president doing. At the same time, if there are still people who are following his example, that's going to prolong the duration of the coronavirus throughout the whole country.

KING: Neil, as you well know, ticket splitting is a thing of the past in American politics. So, in a presidential election year, if the president's numbers are this bad and if they stay this bad, Republicans running for the House, Republicans running for the Senate, Republicans running for governor, Republicans running for anything from dog catcher up are going to be in trouble.

Just go through these numbers among people of color, Biden 72 percent, Trump 25 percent. Among women, Biden 66 percent, Trump 32 percent. Among seniors, Biden 60 percent, Trump 39 percent. Among independents, Biden 57 percent. Trump 38 percent.

Neil, what's going to happen to the Republican Party, forget the president for a minute, every other Republican on the ballot, what is going to happen to them if those numbers don't change by Election Day?

NEWHOUSE: Well, John, you know as well as I do, you can guess the answer there, which is the Republican Party could be facing a significant challenge if these numbers don't turn around. And if there's no 14.3 in politics. You can't just, you know, change things on a dime.