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Trump Ends Stimulus Talks as Nation and White House Fight Outbreaks; Mike Pence, Kamala Harris Face Off in Vice Presidential Debate, Trump Accuses FDA of Political Sabotage; GOP Senator McSally Stops Short of Saying She's "Proud" to Support Trump; Stimulus Talks Between President Trump and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi Ends Abruptly; Pence, Harris Face Off in Vice Presidential Debate Tonight. Aired 9- 9:30a ET

Aired October 07, 2020 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Poppy Harlow.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto. There is some sobering news this morning. Let's get through it and here's where we start.

Right now half of the states across this country are reporting a rise in new coronavirus infections. Dr. Anthony Fauci is warning that the death toll in this country could reach 400,000 deaths, double where we are now, by winter. Dr. Fauci is also saying the growing outbreak at the White House could have been prevented.

The White House, the nation's house, is now in effect a COVID hot spot. At least 19 people who work there or have recently visited the White House have tested positive for coronavirus. The latest senior adviser, Stephen Miller, he's infected. And after weeks of getting the outbreak under control, overall cases are on the rise in Washington, D.C.

HARLOW: On top of that, there is despair and confusion this morning after the president blows up stimulus talks, he says, until after the election. Millions of Americans and businesses were relying on that aid, counting on Washington to do its job.

We'll get into more on that in a moment.

Also tonight a major debate between Vice President Pence and Senator Kamala Harris. It will be one like you have -- we can assure you -- never seen before. Not to mention the Plexiglas barriers on stage. This face-off comes as some are doubting whether next week's clash between the president and Joe Biden will happen at all.

Let's begin this hour at the White House, our John Harwood joins us there. There is a lot of news out of the White House this morning, John, but let's begin with the president's health as Stephen Miller has tested positive for COVID. JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all,

Poppy, we don't know about the state of the president's health. We got a cursory statement yesterday from the White House physician saying that the president had reported no symptoms, but no detail. The doctor did not make himself available for questioning about specifics or the president's vital signs, whether he's still receiving oxygen, all that sort of thing.

We also have not seen the president speak live to the American people. We understand that he recorded a statement yesterday, we have not seen it. So we don't know the president's condition. What we do know from his Twitter feed is that he is cooped up in the residence, feeling sorry for himself, complaining that, for example, that FDA rules on producing a safe vaccine and vetting the vaccine to make sure it's safe are a political hit job on him because he can't announce a vaccine breakthrough before the election.

So we understand that he wants to bust out of the residence, get to the Oval Office, but when you look at what a ghost town the West Wing is right now, so many people out sick with coronavirus or quarantining because they've been exposed to people who are sick with coronavirus, it is clear that there is a lot of apprehension about letting the president do that. May happen as early as today.

In the meantime, as you noted, he blew up those stimulus talks with the House and then once there was blowback of that for being a politically unwise decision, he raised the possibility of a la carte passage of things like paycheck protection and aid to airlines, that sort of thing. But this president is not acting in a way that suggests that he's concerned about other people. He is concerned and focused principally on himself and he appears from his conduct to be a danger to himself health-wise as well as to those around him, guys.

HARLOW: John Harwood, thank you for reporting on all those fronts.

Let's get to Salt Lake City. Now it is the site of a big consequential debate tonight. Our Jason Carroll is there.

And, Jason, your mask is on. They're mandated this time. That's a good thing. And the Plexiglass is up and the anticipation is building.

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. The Plexiglass is up, and Poppy, a number of the critics of the vice president were wondering why this was something that was even being debated at all, when you consider the fact that the vice president is head of the White House's task force on the coronavirus.

You look at what happened with Stephen Miller becoming infected, his wife. Some folks out there may not know, but his wife Katie Miller is the press secretary for the vice president.

The two work closely with each other. She flew home yesterday, she tested negative, but given all the optics involved with this you can see why someone like Senator Kamala Harris is going to key in on this issue tonight. She basically is going to be presenting the vice president and the president as two of the same in terms of the administration's failed response to the coronavirus.

[09:05:07]

Pence, the vice president, for his part will do what he can to try to show that Senator Harris is too progressive, too liberal for the country. Also, let's look ahead at what we can expect in terms of the format of tonight's debate.

There will be no opening or closing statements. Again, the Plexiglas is up. The candidates will be standing about 12 feet, three inches apart. It will last for 90 minutes with 10-minute segments. The moderator will be Susan Page from "USA Today," and again, as you mentioned there, Poppy, masks required by all attendees here inside the hall.

Some questions about the tone of tonight's debate, a lot of people wondering about that given what we saw during the presidential debate. Both of these candidates, skilled debaters, both seem to be from what we've seen in the past very calm in terms of how they debate. So let's see how that plays out tonight when the two hit the stage -- Poppy, Jim.

SCIUTTO: You look at those Plexiglas barriers, not particularly intrusive. I mean, we see them at grocery stores, at pharmacies, you see them all over right now. Remarkable that was a fight.

Jason Carroll, thanks very much.

This morning President Trump is attacking the FDA after it issued guidelines to vaccine makers, guidelines that seem to follow the science here and the safety, but would make it difficult to meet the president's demand of a vaccine by the election.

HARLOW: The agency now says they want -- they need two months of safety data. This is after trials finished, the final shot is given, before they will consider giving emergency use authorization to a vaccine.

Let's bring in former FDA commissioner Dr. Mark McClellan.

Good to have you. Good morning.

DR. MARK MCCLELLAN, FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER: Good morning, Poppy.

HARLOW: Explain to everyone why two -- at least two months of data is imperative.

MCCLELLAN: Well, Poppy, these are vaccines that are going to be given to people who are healthy, we're trying to keep millions of Americans from getting the coronavirus, and so it's very important to make sure that there aren't rare or significant side effects.

We've seen that with some vaccines. It hopefully is not going to be the case with the many vaccines under development now and in these advanced very large clinical trials for COVID, but most of those side effects show up within the first couple of months because they can be rare.

It's very important to get the data on tens of thousands of patients, and, Poppy, the standards that FDA is applying here are standards like they've used for other vaccines where these large clinical trials are required before they're used on many Americans. So this is not really a raising the bar.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MCCLELLAN: This is setting the bar in the right place.

SCIUTTO: Dr. McClellan, we've seen a number of instances in the last several months where institutions including health institutions have, it appear, let politics trump the science. I mean, you had HHS pushing and exaggerating the benefits of a treatment on the eve of the Republican National Convention, the White House pushing hydroxychloroquine which the president did not take, we should note, when he himself became infected.

Do you see the FDA putting out these restrictions now as something of a victory, right, that medicine trumps politics here?

MCCLELLAN: It is. It's a reminder of how important it is for us to have an FDA that is surrounded by processes that people understand, that are backed by science, they're backed by experience in terms of doing good, independently overseeing clinical trials, having independent review by the FDA and coming up on the vaccines, Jim, will be a public meeting where independent experts that advise the FDA will have a chance to give their views about whether the vaccine is safe and effective enough for use.

This is really important in a public health emergency. We need to do it as timely as possible to make sure that people have the confidence in the treatments that are coming. And it can apply to other treatments, too. There's an important announcement from Lilly today about the monoclonal antibodies, the treatments like what appeared to make a significant difference for President Trump last week. About those potentially becoming available soon and we need that process to be just as science-based.

HARLOW: That's a really good point, and to build on Jim's excellent point about, you know, is science finally winning here, listen to this. This is from Dr. Peter Marks who heads the FDA's Center for Biologic Evaluation Research. Right? He's like key in all of this. And here is what he said that struck me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. PETER MARKS, DIRECTOR, FDA CENTER FOR BIOLOGIC EVALUATION AND RESEARCH: There's something that's really amazing that you can actually use sometimes and that is you can sometimes actually use data.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: It's sort of like, duh. SCIUTTO: Yes.

MCCLELLAN: Yes.

HARLOW: But the fact that he had to say it, right?

MCCLELLAN: You know, it's duh, but it's also -- it's data and it's data from trials where people are randomized to get the treatment or get something else so that we don't make mistakes and conclude that there's a either safety problem or important benefit. This is the way science should work and it's great to see it working, to make a difference in this pandemic.

[09:10:08]

SCIUTTO: Dr. McClellan, before we go, let's set aside the political timeline here because the science timeline, the medicine one is the one that matters. In your view is this country still on track to have a vaccine approved perhaps as soon as the end of this year based on where the science is leading us?

MCCLELLAN: I think so. You know, we have to see what actually happens in the clinical trials, FDA has paused one of them because of the safety concerns.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MCCLELLAN: So we have to make sure that the results are really there, but I do see the trials on track to have some availability at least to highest risk Americans like health care workers and people in nursing homes potentially before the end of the year. It will be well into next year before vaccines may be widely available if we keep up with that pace.

The other important news, though, is that there are some of these other treatments like a monoclonal antibody that President Trump got that could be available significantly sooner. So the treatments are coming along. We really need to support the science to get them moving along as fast as possible while making sure they are safe and effective.

HARLOW: Thank you, Dr. McClellan. So good to have you on all of this, this morning.

MCCLELLAN: Good to be with you. Thank you.

HARLOW: Joining us now, "New York Times" political correspondent Alex Burns and NPR White House reporter Ayesha Roscoe.

Nice to have you both here. Alex, let me begin with you if I could on stimulus because you had a very colorful way of explaining the president's move last night to just throw it all out. Quote, "A staggering act of self-harm and sabotage to his party." Why?

ALEX BURNS, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Well, Poppy, for the closing weeks of his own campaign and it's important to remember that his campaign has tied up in it the fates of Republicans all up and down the ballot, the party has been hoping that the president would, you know, either before he got infected or coming out of the hospital deliver a pretty clear and forceful message about the economy and about the recovery from COVID, perhaps informed by his own personal experience, and maybe could forge some kind of deal on the hill that would give him something to campaign on in the final weeks of this election.

For months he has been campaigning essentially on the idea that the pandemic is a thing of the past. That message is pretty much shot because of what's going on in the White House and just because of the factual reality that we are all living in, but that notion of an economic message would give him something to work with, would give his party something to work with.

What has happened instead is that the president has cut off negotiations and has done it in exactly the language that Democrats have been using to attack the Republican Party, saying they're more focused on the Supreme Court than on helping people suffering.

SCIUTTO: Ayesha Roscoe, Vice President Biden went to Gettysburg yesterday to give an address about division in this country and a way forward, but he also spoke about the health crisis in this country, particularly on the issue of mask wearing.

I want to play his sound and ask you a quick question.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Wearing a mask is not a political statement. It's a scientific recommendation. Social distancing isn't a political statement. It's a scientific recommendation.

This pandemic is not a red state or blue state issue. This virus doesn't care whether you live or where you live, what political party you belong to. It affects us all. It will take anyone's life. It's a virus. It's not a political weapon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Has the Biden campaign in your view determined that the response to the virus, the outbreak, is the central issue in this election?

AYESHA ROSCOE, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, NPR: Well, absolutely. And I think that's what you're going to see tonight in the debate with Kamala Harris versus Mike Pence. You're going to hear them driving that home because that is a big issue for the U.S. as a whole and we're seeing it play out for the president himself. I mean, the president's own health is at risk. We see that even with, you know, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, some of them are having to quarantine.

All of these issues, I mean, it's affecting the federal government and this is an issue where President Trump in particular has had very weak marks on polls. This has been the weakness for him and part of the reason why his polls have been so low is because of his handling and his management of the coronavirus and that key groups do not approve of it, senior citizens, a lot of women, and so you see the Biden campaign really honing in on this.

HARLOW: There was a really fiery debate last night in Arizona, Alex, and I'm super fascinated with Arizona right now because of what our poll numbers, the Siena College-"New York Times" poll showed this week that Biden now has an eight-point lead in Arizona.

If he were to win Arizona, Alex, it would be the first to do that for Democrats since '96.

[09:15:00]

If you could listen to this exchange, it was between the moderator and Republican Martha McSally about whether she basically stands by the president, if she's proud of the work the president has done. Let's roll it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you proud of your support for President Trump?

SEN. MARTHA MCSALLY (R-AZ): Well, I'm proud that I'm fighting for Arizonans on things like cutting your taxes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator, the question was, are you proud of your support for President Trump?

MCSALLY: I'm proud to be fighting for Arizona every single day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that a yes or a no for President Trump?

MCSALLY: Putting legislation on President Trump's desk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: By the way, kudos to the moderator, just an --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

HARLOW: Excellent job on that. Alex, what does that tell you --

ALEX BURNS, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Yes --

HARLOW: About not just her, but the party right now?

BURNS: Well, in her case, I would just say quickly, Poppy, it's sort of baffling because she has tied herself so closely to the president all along that to suddenly seek separation at this point in that sort of very stilted way, does not seem particularly, strategically well- informed. But in terms of the bigger picture of the Republican Party, that really shows you the corner that they have painted themselves into.

That they feel in a state like Arizona, that they have a choice between either tying themselves inseparably to the president and alienating the majority of voters who dislike the president, most of them in Arizona right now according to our polling are voting for Joe Biden or seeking separation from the president and enraging the hardcore base of the Republican Party and perhaps the president himself.

SCIUTTO: Yes, McSally even aligning herself for the president's attack on the media, I remember her interaction --

HARLOW: Yes --

SCIUTTO: With our colleague Manu Raju --

HARLOW: Yes --

SCIUTTO: A few weeks back. Ayesha, just before we go, quickly, what is McConnell's read of the politics on stimulus in your view. Was he on board with the president scrapping this or does he see danger to senators in tight races?

AYESHA RASCOE, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, NPR: Well, it was always a kind of -- I mean, his focus is clearly on the Supreme Court right now, and it was always going to be a bit tough in the Senate because there were a lot of senators who were against doing, you know, another big stimulus -- you know, all of a sudden, they were getting concerned about how much is being spent. So I think it was always a tricky thing to happen, but if Trump had leaned on him and said that he really wanted this done, it would have gotten done.

SCIUTTO: Guys, I think we might have some news to talk about in the next couple of weeks, I'm sure we'll have you back.

(LAUGHTER)

Alex Burns, Ayesha, probably more before the end of the day, thanks to both of you. Still to come this hour right now, top Pentagon leaders -- top Pentagon leaders are under quarantine after being exposed to COVID-19. What does that mean for your country's national security?

HARLOW: Also tonight, Senator Kamala Harris, the first African- American woman to be on a major party ticket, to be nominated as vice president takes the stage to debate Mike Pence. Her focus, though, may not just be solely on the vice president. We'll tell you why? And a powerful hurricane is battering Cancun as we speak and other parts of Mexico right now. Is the U.S. at risk?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:20:00]

HARLOW: Well, a major development this morning. Several top generals are quarantined after the vice commandant of the Coast Guard tested positive for COVID-19.

SCIUTTO: CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr, one of the first to report this. And Barbara, you reported that they have not yet tested positive. I imagine that they're continuing to be tested. But how is this impacting operations in the Pentagon?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning. Yes, all of them are continuing to be tested, and as of right now, all of them are still negative after that exposure through the number two admiral at the Coast Guard last week when he was here in the Pentagon for a series of meetings.

What we know this morning besides all testing negative, they are all continuing to work from home out of what we're being told is an abundance of caution and being in compliance with CDC protocols. It is now expected that they will continue to work from home at least through Monday.

And really, we are -- we are told very adamantly, it is not impacting national security, but make no mistake, the key official here would be General Mark Milley; chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, he is President Trump's top military adviser, he has to be in touch around the world 24 hours a day with anyone that he needs to talk to about national security, be ready to make recommendations to the president if there is a crisis.

General Milley has a complete classified suite of communications in his home, he lives on a military base here in the Washington area. So, we're told he has everything at his fingertips, he can continue to work from home and it looks like the Joint Chiefs will not be back in the Pentagon for several days now.

SCIUTTO: Just to be clear, Barbara, would the other members of the Joint Chiefs also have access to classified information and classified communications --

STARR: Sure --

SCIUTTO: At home?

STARR: Yes, absolutely. But on General Milley's level, it's a bit of a different story, given his responsibilities to advise President Trump at all times.

SCIUTTO: Understood. And that's of course key because they need that access to make key decisions. Barbara Starr, thanks very much.

STARR: Sure.

SCIUTTO: Well, 25 states are now seeing a spike in coronavirus cases, we bring you that map every day, at least, a dozen reported more than 1,000 new cases on Monday alone. I mean, many times, Poppy, what you see in entire countries abroad.

HARLOW: Yes, it's a total failure across the board. The nation's top infectious disease doctor warning now -- that's Dr. Anthony Fauci, that this country could see as many as 400,000 COVID deaths this Winter.

[09:25:00]

Alex Field joins us, good morning, Alex.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Poppy. It is incredibly sobering for anyone who has heard that we are rounding the corner.

You just have to look at the map, you will see that half of the country is seeing an uptick in cases, nearly as many states are also seeing rising death tolls, Wisconsin being hit very hard, that state has issued emergency orders that will limit public gatherings to 25 percent capacity of any room or building, that as the state records its highest case numbers, its highest death toll and its highest rate of hospitalizations all in just the last few days.

We've really got to keep our eye on these hospitalizations, we've got to keep our eye on the fact that the death toll is rising in a number of these states across the country. Important information as you may be hearing that this is a virus that is somewhat magically easy to beat.

We know that it isn't. That's why Dr. Fauci is again sounding the alarm bell. He's pointing out the fact that we are still averaging some 40,000 new cases as a country every day. This is not the number that public officials, public health officials hoped to have as we head into the colder Winter months and into flu season.

They had hoped that you would see cases going down around the country, that it would give them a lower baseline, that it would help to prepare across the country for the challenges that come along with flu season. It was Dr. Fauci who last Spring suggested that we could have some 200,000 deaths related to coronavirus if people didn't follow basic protocols. We are at 210,000 now. And Poppy and Jim, as you pointed out, he is once again saying if we continue on this trajectory, we could hit 300,000 or 400,000 American deaths this Winter.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: Wow. Alex, thank you for that reporting. You're right, it is very sobering to hear. Also this economy, we're moments away from the market opening after the president threw out stimulus talks, futures are higher here, investors have a lot of uncertainty.

The president's health crisis among them, his decision to reject any more stimulus talks until after the election, and then sort of trying to half walk that back hours later. Now suggesting maybe he will support a standalone deal for airlines and businesses. All of this if there is no deal could lead to a notable -- noticeable slowdown in the economy.

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