Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Outbreak Grows at White House as Trump Upends Stimulus Talks; McConnell Blames 'Risky Behaviors' Away from Hill for Senate Infections; Trump says he's Looking Forward to Debate Next Week. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired October 07, 2020 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:07]

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: It's the top of the hour. Hello, everybody. I'm John King in Washington. Thank you so much for sharing your day with us.

We're told today President Trump is trying to push his way back into the West Wing, even as his White House adds to its new coronavirus case count. Staffers are getting down, goggles and masks ready, in case they have no choice but to assist the president in the Oval Office. The list of aides available to help keeps shrinking. Senior adviser Stephen Miller is the latest Trump insider to test positive for COVID-19. The chief of staff, well he tested negative again this morning, but listen, he sounds nervous he could be next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK MEADOWS, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: We know this virus will -- has a way of reaching out and getting people when they least expect it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: It's important to note the president's doctor last answered questions back on Monday, and the White House continues to share only vague written updates that don't tell us much about the president's condition and his COVID treatment. If he is feeling well enough to work today, one thing not in his to-do box is broad stimulus negotiations. A surprise tweet from the president yesterday ended those talks and it rattled financial markets counting on Washington to do more to help ease the pandemic's economic pain.

Chief of Staff Meadows, you saw him there, he says the White House will aim now for smaller deals. Helping airlines is one example. Meadows again blaming the House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. But the fact is she was making progress with Trump's Treasury secretary until the president's tweet bomb yesterday.

Tonight, you see live pictures right here, it is debate night for the vice-presidential candidates. That's Salt Lake City, there's no doubt the coronavirus and its economic impact will be flashpoints. VP debates do not usually alter the course of an election but as you look inside the debate hall there, we should be reminded this campaign is anything but normal. And a 74-year-old president confined to the White House with coronavirus 27 days to Election Day only adds to the long list of 2020 things that we simply have not experienced before.

Vice president's mission tonight is to project the president and country is on the road to recovery. Senator Kamala Harris tasked with prosecuting the president's pandemic response and Pence's role as the White House task force leader, will also come under fire. This debate come to the moment of grave Republican worry.

The president's numbers are miserable and getting worse. And if things don't change soon, Republicans see the Senate slipping away along with the White House. And in this pandemic election, the coronavirus numbers are troublesome and getting worse.

Look right there. 25 states, half of the United States now heading in the wrong direction. More cases now than a week ago. 43,000 new infections reported Tuesday. Colder weather and coronavirus fatigue has Dr. Anthony Fauci very worried.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: The models tell us that if we do not do the kinds of things that we're talking about in the cold of the fall and the winter, we could have from 300,000 to 400,000 deaths. That would be just so tragic if that happens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Stunning number there. Stunning number there.

Joining me now the Washington bureau chief for "The Daily Beast," Jackie Kucinich, CNN's Ryan Nobles is at Salt Lake City, the site of tonight's VP debate and CNN's John Harwood is in Washington, coming to White House for us.

And John, so I want to start with you. We are told the president says he's itching to get back into the Oval Office. We're told they're setting up an isolation cart so that any aides called on to work closely with him can get the protective equipment they need. I want to you listen to a little more of Chief of Staff Mark Meadows this morning talking about the situation at the White House that frankly is, it's an overused term all of a sudden, but a ghost town. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEADOWS: We do mandate social distancing as much as practical and even with some of your colleagues. A number of your colleagues who may wear masks religiously, they've come down with it. And so, it makes us pivot back to one critical thing. We need to make sure that therapeutics and vaccines are what we focus on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: The last part of that John as you all know is a bit of a copout, a responsible behavior also helps. And the president has not and many around him have not practiced responsible behavior. But what is the status there? What do we know about the president's plans and when will we next hear? And when will the president's doctor actually take questions?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, we don't know very much at all, John, about the state of the president's health. We got a vague statement yesterday from the White House physicians saying that the president had reported no symptoms but did not say the president had been examined, did not provide any specifics about his vital signs, whether he was getting oxygen, whether he's still taking the steroid dexamethasone.

So, there's a lot of blank sheets of paper that we're looking at in terms of trying to figure out where the president is. We have not heard from the president's doctor in a couple of days, as you noted. We have not heard the president speak live for a number of days. He put out taped statements. Apparently, he taped something last night.

[11:05:02]

We have not seen him. So, we don't know the state of his health. And we know that if in fact he had symptom onset late last week that he's still in a danger zone in which this very unpredictable virus could take a turn.

He wants to go back to the Oval Office. The aides are very apprehensive. There are empty desks all over the place. And that's going to make it extremely difficult for Vice President Pence tonight, John, to make the argument that the country is on the road to recovery if the White House itself is a hotspot.

KING: Right. And you mentioned tonight's debate. And Jackie, here we are 27 days from election. The president is confined to the White House with the infection, with the disease, he said would disappear six months ago.

I want you to listen here because Republicans are very careful here but privately, they're very worried. Listen to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. He's going to try to come back in a couple of weeks and push the Supreme Court confirmation battle through. But listen to his own frustration here with the fact that coronavirus is so front and center.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): I do think there have been risky behaviors in other areas but not in the Senate.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: So, you're saying, you think that the White House has taken too many risks?

MCCONNELL: Well, there's no question that some of the infections occurred elsewhere, and not here.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: I mean, you understand sometimes we have to translate the majority leader there. But clearly frustration. The infections occurred elsewhere and not here. Three of his senators have -- Republicans have infections right now.

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right.

KING: Two of them were at that Supreme Court rollout event.

KUCINICH: And also, on the Judiciary Committee, which is going to be charged with reporting out Amy Coney Barrett, if this hearing ends up happening, which it seems like right now it is. But, sure, this is slowing down what Mitch McConnell's main objective is, which is to get the Supreme Court justice through before Election Day.

And the fact the White House has been so belligerent about not mask wearing, Mark Meadows hasn't worn a mask. I mean, he has every reason to be nervous. They say it sneaks up on you. Well, I mean, you can hide a little bit if you're wearing - if you and everyone around you is wearing a mask. Sort of use what he said.

But it is frustrating everyone on every level. Now Mike Pence has to stand next to a Plexiglas because of all of these infections in the White House, which is a visual reminder during this debate of the failures of this administration to handle the coronavirus crisis.

KING: And, Ryan, that is the point Senator Harris hopes to prosecute tonight. She hopes to make the case that because of this administration's mishandling of the pandemic. That's why we're in October, we have 25 states heading in the wrong direction. We have more than 210,000 Americans dead.

Senator Harris also understands mission number one for her is do no harm because the Democrats have a big and growing lead at the moment. Joe Biden is in the driver's seat in this race and he essentially helped try to right the script yesterday when it comes to prosecuting the pandemic. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: This pandemic is not a red state or blue state issue. This virus doesn't care whether you live, where you live, what political party you belong to. It infects us all. It will take anyone's life. It's a virus. It's not a political weapon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Set the scene for us there, Ryan. As I said, you know normally Americans don't vote based on the vice-presidential candidates. I don't remember campaign where the vice-presidential debate altered the course of the election, however, we are in a campaign unlike any other. So, I say watch everything closely.

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think you're right, John. And the other point that should be made is that the final two presidential debates are in Dallas. So, this may be the last opportunity that we may have to see both of these campaigns face to face answering tough questions.

But getting back to your point about how the Biden campaign through Kamala Harris tonight will attempt to prosecute the Trump administration's response to the coronavirus, it is a dicey proposition because Mike Pence is a much different person on the debate stage than President Trump is. His nickname within the Trump campaign is on-message Mike.

They've found a way to hone-in their message even in the wake of the president's coronavirus diagnosis. And you can expect Mike Pence to try and turn this back on Kamala Harris, accuse her of being a sponsor of Medicare for All and going down the road of socialized medicine and tying her to the radical left. It's pretty clear from the polling that there's a lot more for the Democrats to lose in this setting than there is for the Republicans to gain.

And so, it's going to be very difficult for the Harris campaign and in - you know in this setting to try and make that case without doing more harm. However, they do feel more confident that someone like Kamala Harris, who is a skilled prosecutor, who has shown the ability in settings like this and her role on various Senate committees, particularly the Senate Judiciary Committee, where she has grilled members of the Trump administration to have come before him, that she has a unique ability to do it in a setting like this.

[11:10:05]

So, it creates a very interesting dynamic, John. And it's important to point out, again, this may be the last debate we see so as a result it takes on a special level of importance.

KING: And Jackie, to that very point, Frank Fahrenkopf, the chairman of the Debate Commission was on CNN just a short time ago, and he made that point. The president says he wants to debate. Joe Biden says he will show up for the second debate only if the doctors say that President Trump is COVID free. Frank Fahrenkopf says stay tuned. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANK FAHRENKOPF, CO-CHAIR, COMMISSION ON PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES: -- going to depend on the president's health. Now he said yesterday I understand from the newspapers that he's ready, raring to go and will be in Miami and run the debate. But it's going to depend on what the doctors say about his health, whether or not -- not only will he be safe but the people around him be safe. We're concerned about our staff, our workers who are here. You know we have a crew of about 65 people who work on these things so it's going to depend upon what the medical evidence is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: It is a fascinating moment there. The coronavirus concerns. And if you look at this from the Trump campaign and the Republican Party perspective, it is hard to come back from a deficit as big as the president faces right now and it's a lot harder when the other guy has more money, the other guy is on the campaign trail and you're confined to the White House with coronavirus.

KUCINICH: Well, certainly. And you know the president is going to try to push forward with that debate no matter what. But there are still things we don't know. We don't know when President Trump's last negative test is. Someone there knows. I think Sanjay Gupta said that, but they haven't told the public. So, we don't know how - where the president really is in the course of this infection as to whether he'll be able medically to not infect anyone else with this debate.

And certainly, the Biden campaign is -- their biggest concern is keeping Joe Biden healthy. So, how the Presidential Debate Commission handles this is really - I mean, it's a stay-tuned situation. But it's not just the president that's being dragged down by this, John. It's other candidates, Senate candidates around the country that are, you know, that people are looking at what's happening in the White House and looking to what's happening around the country with these infections and are, perhaps, casting their vote elsewhere.

KING: It is a remarkable moment, unchartered, we use all those words, but that's a fact. Jackie Kucinich, John Harwood, Ryan Nobles, appreciate the reporting and insights.

Up next for us, coronavirus infections. This is our sad October reality, rising in half the country. Dr. Fauci says it's not rocket science how you get this number down but he says too many Americans simply not listening.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:16:50]

KING: The vice-presidential candidates debate tonight and Vice President Pence, of course, the head of the White House Coronavirus Task Force. The current numbers are going to be hard to explain away.

Let's take a look at the current numbers. You look at the 50-state trend map right now and this is just a very sober first week of October. 25 states, as it gets colder, 25 states heading in the wrong direction. That means reporting more new infections now compared to a week ago.

You see orange and red on the map. Those are the states heading in the wrong direction. They now include Texas and Arizona. They of course were big part of the summer surge. Let's hope those are just temporary which is there.

But 25 states heading up, 22 states holding steady, only three states - only three of the 50 states reporting fewer infections now than a week ago. That is very troubling as you head into the colder weather. Five states reported over 2,000 new cases yesterday, 5 states.

Now, maybe you're not surprised when you see big states like Florida, Texas and California, with more than 2,000 new infections. But look Kansas. Kansas more than 2,000 new infections reported yesterday. Wisconsin as well. Wisconsin is a hotspot. And this is the saddest map of all. And again, when you have more cases, which we have at the moment, then kind of week or two, you get more deaths.

22 states, it's the red and the orange. And you noticed, it's across the northern half of the country where temperatures are colder right now. 22 states reporting more deaths, more coronavirus deaths now compared to a week ago. 11 holding steady. 17 states trending down in their week-to-week death count.

If you look at the case timeline now, again, the trendline heading in the wrong direction. This is where we are. Call it a plateau or call it a slight uptick, but we are above. We are 43,000 new infections yesterday. We're about that as the level -- the average daily new infections above 40,000 now.

Remember, it was below 20,000 when we started the big summer surge up to here. This line not moving up, you see the trajectory, it's not moving up straight like that. But this is a stubborn, stubborn plateau right now at above 43,000. The fear is as it gets colder, it will go higher.

Nationally, the positivity rate in pretty good shape. You want to be at 5 percent or lower. It's at 4.7 percent. But that's a national look. When you look state by state, again, especially in the northern half of the country, 23 percent positivity in Idaho, 15 percent in Wyoming, 23 in South Dakota, 13 Nebraska, Kansas double digits, Missouri double digits, Iowa, Wisconsin, Indiana and so on.

Dr. Fauci looks at these numbers. He says I know a lot of you just simply don't want to listen to me. He's begging as we head into the colder weather to give him a chance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAUCI: It occurs because of the lack of implementation of simple public health measures. It's so frustrating because it is not rocket science. You don't need to lockdown. You almost want to say, OK, country, you know, maybe 50 percent of you hate me because you think I'm trying to destroy the country, but do me a favor, listen to me for like maybe six weeks or so and do these things, you would see the level of infection go down, absolutely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Joining us now is Dr. Tom Inglesby. He's the director for the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security. Doctor Ingles, it's good to see you again. You can hear the exasperation in Dr. Fauci there.

[11:20:02]

Essentially, begging people, just put on a mask, separate, give it a few weeks, and watch the numbers. But here we are, seven plus months in, and a lot of the country that's still not the case. You just saw me go through the numbers. 43,000 new infections on average. The positivity rates in double digits in most of the states, many of the states, where it's now getting colder. Where are we going?

DR. TOM INGLESBY, DIRECTOR, JOHNS HOPKINS CENTER FOR HEALTH SECURITY: Yes, unfortunately I think as a country we're moving in the wrong direction again. If you look at where we were three weeks ago, we're 20 percent higher in terms of national numbers of cases, numbers of hospitalizations are going up for the first time in a while. The number of ICU beds that are occupied by COVID patients is beginning to pick up again. And we are seeing some states you know in the worse condition they have been since the start of this pandemic, in the Midwest, Dakota, Wisconsin, the Mountain West. I mean, they're really, really high numbers. And we got to work to turn those around or we're going to have healthcare crisis like we're beginning to see in Wisconsin.

KING: And the numbers going up at a time when we now know anyone's hopes for getting a vaccine are going to be delayed at least some. The FDA finally put out some new guidelines. The White House has resisted them but then allowed them to go forward.

The president for weeks has said we'll have a vaccine soon. He keeps saying soon and he keeps saying possibly before the election. I think that's off the table now if you look at the new guidance. Data from phase three study should include a median follow-up duration of at least two months after completion of the full vaccination regimen to help provide adequate information to assess the vaccine's benefit/risk profile.

Now, that leads me without a doubt, they were looking at the end of the year. We're October 5th now, right? And so, we're looking at the end of the year at the earliest.

And the president is not happy. He tweeted last night. New FDA rules make it more difficult for them to speed up vaccines for approval before Election Day. Just another political hit job. He's accusing his own Food and Drug Administration chief of a political hit job.

I'm not going to make you do politics but in terms of the timeline, when is the earliest now that there might be a vaccine ready, even for just limited emergency authorization use?

INGLESBY: Well, it does look like because of this new FDA guidance that it will be another couple of months. They need to see the data after the results are beginning to come in for some period of time because we need to have time to be able to make sure that there are no safety side effects. Some of the effects of vaccines that we've seen in the past have not occurred for six to eight weeks or even a bit longer, and so I think the FDA is absolutely doing the right thing and is in consultation with the companies, and making its decisions based on science and I think we need to follow that.

KING: One of the giant concerns, you know better than I do, Dr. Inglesby, as it gets colder and as more people go inside, especially if they're also you know getting lax in terms of mask wearing and people distancing and the like is the impact on possible new infections.

And I want you to listen to Dr. Fauci. There's been a debate for some time about, how long? How long if you emit coronavirus? How long can the Arizona hang in the air? Listen to Dr. Fauci. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAUCI: In a restaurant in China, where with people far distanced from the index case that was infected got infected very likely because the air-conditioning recirculated the aerosol that was out of a person's mouth who was not symptomatic and that was transmitted. So, it's a highly transmissible respiratory virus.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And aerosol is a concern.

FAUCI: It is a concern. Once and for all, let's settle that. It is a concern.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: As you know, just - it's like recently is a week or so ago. That was a back and forth between the CDC putting up guidance, taking it down, then putting it back up. Why has it - why has it been so long for that to be certain, as Dr. Fauci says it is?

INGLESBY: Well, I think most of the cases that have been investigated, most of the outbreaks investigated, have shown that -- that transmission is happening almost you know predominantly at short range but there have been examples of people being infected at longer range in indoor settings. And I think it's taken some time for scientific agencies to really judge that the evidence was strong enough to be able to say that aerosol transmission is happening.

I think there's been evidence growing for some time. It's not a high percentage of cases but it's definitely enough there. So, I think CDC's guidance now is very clear, indoor places with core ventilation, that transmission can occur at greater than six feet. And we should minimize the time that we spend in those settings.

KING: We absolutely should, and I hope folks listen to you as they listen to that exasperated Dr. Fauci we played at the top of the segment. Doctor Inglesby, as always grateful for your expertise and your insights. Thank you, sir.

Still ahead for us, the president called off stimulus talks. Now he says maybe he'll do something. This is going to fall on the Congress. A member of the Republican Senate Leadership John Barrasso joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:30:00]

KING: Big stimulus negotiations are off, the White House says today, meaning things look bleak for individuals and businesses who are hoping for a coronavirus economy lifeline from Washington.