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Trump Calls Senator Kamala Harris a Monster and Communist; Trump Refuses Virtual Debate, May Hold Rallies Instead; Trump Doesn't Believe He's Contagious; Trump Describes Kamala Harris As No Competition for VP Pence in VP Debate in Salt Lake City. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired October 08, 2020 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:28]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Well, you are all waking up to a whole lot of news this morning, especially in the last hour. We're glad you're with us. I'm Poppy Harlow.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

We're 26 days to an election and you have to listen to the comments on the record from candidates for that election. One note, one headline this morning, President Trump says he refused to take part in next week's presidential debate. This after the Commission on Presidential Debates announced this morning that the debate will be held virtually, Biden says he is in.

And, Poppy, I just think we have to take a moment here to note the sitting president's comments about the Democratic vice presidential candidate, Kamala Harris. He called her more than once in the last several minutes on FOX News a monster. Called a sitting U.S. senator a monster who also happens to be the vice presidential candidate for the Democratic Party, a woman.

He without foundation and echoing the words and rhetoric of Joe McCarthy in the early 1950s called her without foundation a communist. This is the sitting president making these allegations without basis, by the way, and without challenge, and using language that, goodness, listen, my children sometimes watch this broadcast. I don't want them to hear that kind of language from the sitting president about a woman who is running for vice president and is a sitting and elected member of the Senate.

That's what we're hearing now 26 days to the election.

HARLOW: That's right. Let's get right to John Harwood. He joins us at the White House with more this morning. Good morning, John.

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Poppy. You know, the president is making clear with his rant this morning that he is not just unwell physically, he is not just unwell politically, he is unwell emotionally as well, as you indicated. He called Kamala Harris a monster, he ranted against Hillary Clinton, his opponent from four years ago.

He criticized his own attorney general for not having launched prosecutions of his political opponents, and most significant in terms of the immediate news, he said he was not going to participate in the new format announced by the Commission on Presidential Debates which was initiated because the president is sick with coronavirus. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I heard that the commission a little while ago changed the debate style and that's not acceptable to us. I beat him easily in the first debate, according to the polls that I've seen, but I beat him easily. I felt I beat him easily, I think he felt it, too.

No, I'm not going to waste my time on a virtual debate. That's not what debating is all about. You sit behind a computer and do a debate. It's ridiculous. And then they cut you off whenever they want.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARWOOD: Of course, the president did not beat Joe Biden in the first debate. All the polls show that he was hammered in that debate and he's paid a price in the polling since then. But the president also minimized the significance of the fact that he is ill with coronavirus. He said he's done taking most medications except for the steroid he is on and he talked about going out and holding rallies as soon as today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think I'm better. When -- to a point where I'd love to do a rally tonight. I wanted to do one last night, but I think I'm better. No, I don't think I'm contagious but we still have to --

(CROSSTALK)

MARIA BARTIROMO, FOX NEWS HOST: OK. Feel that way if you're saying you're ready to go to a rally.

TRUMP: No, I don't think I'm contagious at all. Well, first of all, if I'm at a rally I stand by myself very far away from everybody so whether I was or not, but I still wouldn't go to a rally if I was contagious.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARWOOD: Of course, the president has no idea if he's contagious or not. He said he has not been tested so he's not received a negative test. And we don't know because the White House still has not told us when his last negative test was. We don't know how far he is in the course of his disease. He may still be at risk of a bad outcome depending on when he actually acquired the coronavirus.

So the president is in a bad way right now in pretty much every way, guys, and he's showing it, making it very plain.

HARLOW: John, you're so right and, by the way, the job of an American president, regardless of party, is to be in service to the American people. And key, don't get them sick. Don't put them in harm's way. And answer their questions even if it is virtually.

There is a lot to get to, John. We appreciate you as always. Jim?

SCIUTTO: And to speak respectfully.

HARLOW: Sure.

SCIUTTO: We are reaching out to the leadership, Republican leadership of the Senate for their reaction to the sitting president calling a fellow member of the Senate, Kamala Harris, vice presidential candidate, a monster and a communist without evidence.

[09:05:03]

If one of the members of the leadership of the Senate wants to call into this program to give their thoughts on that, they're very welcome. We will give you the time. Meanwhile, we're reaching out for reaction.

Joining us now, CNN chief media correspondent Brian Stelter.

Brian, so Joe Biden, his campaign says he will take part in next week's virtual debate. You and I and Poppy have covered many times where the president has reversed himself on things, earlier this week on stimulus talks being over and then at least partial stimulus talks back on.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Right.

SCIUTTO: Given the size of the audience, as you have noted in this debate, many tens of millions of people, should we expect the president to stick with his decision and what happens if he does?

STELTER: Yes, I think we should all -- I think we should all be very skeptical of the president's claims right now. There is one time where the president skipped a debate. It was during the GOP primary. He boycotted a FOX News debate but he was already the front runner in the polls. He didn't really need the debate back then.

Now he does need to debate. He is behind in all the polls. He is losing and he needs help. So Joe Biden campaign is already saying they will be there, they will be there virtually next week, And the debate commission, the co-chair, Frank Fahrenkopf, has just told our CNN's Dan Merica that the president can do whatever he wants. It doesn't matter to the commission. Quote, "There is no law requiring presidential candidates to debate."

In 1980 Jimmy Carter didn't show up to the first debate but did show up to a second. So, quote, "It is up to every candidate to decide whether they want to debate or not," but the message from the commission is this debate will go on no matter what. The president's campaign says he'll hold a rally instead. But if he

holds a rally it's only going to be broadcast by a couple of pro-Trump channels. It might reach a few million viewers. These debates reach 60 million to 70 million viewers. I would be very surprised if the president turns down a chance to speak to 60 million to 70 million viewers.

And, Jim, to your point about the senator, we know this president is going to try to burn the house down. The question is, who's going to try to put out the fire? And I'm glad you're reaching out to those Republican leaders to say who is going to help put this fire out?

SCIUTTO: Yes. Brian, just for clarification, is Mr. Fahrenkopf saying that if Trump doesn't show up there will still be a town hall with Joe Biden speaking to voters?

STELTER: That's the message from his comments to CNN's Dan Merica. He's saying we did not consult with the campaigns on this decision to go virtually but he's saying it's up to every candidate if they want to attend or not, and he is citing history as if to say in the past this has happened and the show has gone on.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: Thank you, Brian. Glad to have you on all this breaking news.

Let's talk about all of the medical implications here. What's actually going on with the president versus his claims of being, you know, a perfect specimen of health. Our medical analyst Dr. Leana Wen is with us.

Good morning, Doctor.

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Good morning.

HARLOW: Aside from the president's physical health, every single person in this country and around the world hopes he makes a full and quick recovery. But other people, right, if you want to go to rallies, if you want to be around other people, if you meet with Gold Star families on Sunday night at the White House, the question is, are you immune?

This morning he said to Maria Bartiromo, quote, "When you catch it, you get better, then you're immune. As soon as everything goes away from me, you are immune." He thinks he's immune. Is he?

WEN: Right now he almost certainly is not. He currently still is symptomatic as far as we can tell. I mean, from the video that was released last night, he looks like he was still having some increased work of breathing.

We know that according to the White House's own timeline he was only diagnosed a week ago today and, in fact, he was in the hospital. He was just released from the hospital after having what appears to be pneumonia because he was on multiple medications, including one that's reserved for individuals with severe to critical illness. It's actually unbelievable to me, Poppy, that the president is

thinking of doing something like traveling. Not only is he potentially harming his own health and impeding his own recovery, as you said, it's potentially exposing many people. Not only the rally-goers, too, but also the staff, the Secret Service agents, the individuals who will have to travel with him. I mean, this is totally irresponsible. I cannot believe that we're even talking about this.

SCIUTTO: Dr. Wen, the president self-diagnosed himself as not being contagious anymore. Based on what we know and actual medicine, assuming the White House is being honest here that his first positive test was last Thursday, I believe, which was, what, six days ago. Based on what we normally know about the course of this disease and your contagiousness, is it likely he's still contagious today or would be next week? What do we know?

WEN: Yes, it is. He is almost certainly contagious right now and actively shedding virus. Anyone who is still having symptoms and certainly in this 10 to 11-day window after they were first diagnosed or after they first started showing symptoms would probably still be contagious. Next week it's a bit hard to tell at the time of the debate. The CDC guidelines do say that you could in theory leave isolation 10 days after the onset of your symptoms.

[09:10:03]

However, we also know that patients who are severely ill or who are immunocompromised may end up taking longer. The CDC actually recommends up to 20 days for those individuals. So the key is that we don't know and I just have to say, Jim, the whole idea that the president is now working out of the West Wing and potentially exposing all his staff, that to me is also really reckless. I mean, there are essential workers who don't have PPE across the country. Why are we wasting PPE for those individuals who don't need to use it up?

SCIUTTO: And those staff have families. They got children they go home to, grandparents, right?

HARLOW: Remember --

WEN: That's right. They live in a community somewhere, too.

HARLOW: Dr. Wen, no one from the Trump administration has told the American public when the president's last negative test for COVID was before he tested positive. Literally no one will answer that question. Not the deputy press secretary, not Marc Short, who is the chief of staff for the head of the Coronavirus Task Force when Alisyn asked him this morning.

Explain to the American people not only why that's so important, why they deserve an answer to that.

WEN: We deserve an answer for two reasons. First, we need to know what is the president's actual clinical condition. If in fact he tested negative Tuesday and Wednesday that means that he didn't have much of a viral load during those days. So for him to have gotten sick on Thursday to the point that he was

hospitalized and severely ill by Friday, something happened. We need to know what's going on with the president's condition. As opposed to if he had actually been sick for longer. We also need to know because that actually puts him out of the time course of severe illness if in fact he got ill five or six days before we knew that he did.

The second and very critical reason, too, is it's important for contact tracing purposes. The time that you are the most infectious is 48 hours before the onset of your symptoms and so we need to know to trace all those people that the president got exposed to and are infected now and also their contacts. By now we are not talking about second-generation spread, we are talking about third-generation spread and there could be many others around the country who are infected because of the president.

SCIUTTO: The president moments ago, again, questioned the effectiveness of masks. We know the answer to the question but just for folks listening at home since you're a doctor, to hear it directly from them, what does the science tell us about masks?

WEN: Masks will reduce the risk of transmission by 80 percent, or think of it in another way. There was a study that showed that masks can reduce your rate of catching and transmitting COVID-19 by five to six times. Imagine if there is a pill that we can take today that has that much efficacy.

We would all want that pill right now. So let's think of masks the same way. Not as a punitive measure, as something that you have to do or else, but rather this is what we need to do in order to get our businesses back, in order to go to school.

Public health cannot be framed as the enemy but rather as something that we need to do in order to get the rest of our country and the world back on track.

SCIUTTO: Dr. Leana Wen, thanks so much for cutting through all this for us.

HARLOW: Thank you, Doctor.

WEN: Thank you.

HARLOW: Well, still come for us, the president calls Senator Kamala Harris a, quote, "monster." He criticized his own attorney general with vague threats and did not stop there. This is all in a new interview just this morning. We will discuss it ahead.

SCIUTTO: Mitch McConnell, John Thune, Senator Barrasso, what's your reaction to the president calling a fellow member of the Senate a monster? We're reaching out for comment, you're welcome to call into this broadcast to give your reaction at any time.

A new report from "The New York Times" details how politics dictated decisions among the White House Coronavirus Task Force under Vice President Pence's leadership. All this as only two states in the entire country are seeing a decline in virus cases right now. Where are the latest spikes? Why is that happening? What can you be done about it? We're going to be live next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:15:00]

HARLOW: Well, President Trump this morning unleashed in his first television interview since contracting coronavirus.

SCIUTTO: In a lengthy interview, I suppose you could call it with Fox Business, the president launched an onslaught of personal attacks against vice presidential nominee and sitting U.S. Senator Kamala Harris.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (via telephone): I thought that wasn't even a contest last night. She was terrible. She was -- I don't think you could get worse, and totally unlikable. And she is. And this monster that was on stage with Mike Pence who destroyed her last night, by the way. But this monster --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: This monster, Mike Pence destroyed her last night. That's the president speaking about the vice presidential candidate Kamala Harris, Senator Kamala Harris. Joining us now, Sabrina Siddiqui; national politics reporter at the "Wall Street Journal" and David Swerdlick; assistant editor at "The Washington Post". Sabrina, I want to begin with you because I know, sadly, that we've heard as Americans language like this from the president and others repeatedly over the last four years.

This one stood out to me about a sitting U.S. senator, about a woman, a woman of color, vice presidential candidate. Monster. Monster more than once. Communist, sounding almost like McCarthy there. Can you tell me your reaction here, and will we hear any criticism from the president's party on this?

SABRINA SIDDIQUI, NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER, WALL STREET JOURNAL: Well, I think that, as you point out, Senator Kamala Harris, she is a sitting U.S. senator, she is the vice presidential nominee, she is both the first black woman and the first person of south Asian descent to be on a major party's presidential ticket.

And while we've grown accustomed to President Trump attacking his opponents, he's also had a history of making derogatory comments about women. And so, look, are Republicans going to criticize him? Sometimes they come out with a tweet and you know, kind of criticize his rhetoric or his tone.

[09:20:00]

We've seen less and less of that in an election year where they seem to be lining up behind the president and trying to pretend that a lot of this simply isn't happening. But I think ultimately, you have to ask, what exactly the president's strategy is, what his state of mind is when he's down in both national and battleground states polls, he is quickly losing support among not just suburban women, but also working-class white women in key constituency who helped propel him to the White House four years ago.

And he's spending his time less than a month before the election, not just attacking Senator Kamala Harris, but doing so in a way that I think many of the voters who have soured on him will say that it's the precise kind of behavior that they've grown frustrated with over the past four years.

HARLOW: David Swerdlick, obviously it's horrendous that the president called Senator Harris a monster, right?

DAVID SWERDLICK, ASSISTANT EDITOR, THE WASHINGTON POST: Yes.

HARLOW: Also very notable and very important is that he called her a communist. It's a lie. I don't think -- I don't know if he understands what communism is, right? You look at Miriam Webster, the elimination of all private property. Desperate move here and the implications if there are any for the president? Because as Jim said, it's just reeks of McCarthyism.

SWERDLICK: Yes, good morning, Poppy. Let me first echo Sabrina. The president doesn't like to be challenged by anybody. He really doesn't like --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

SWERDLICK: To be challenged by women and he really doesn't like to be challenged by women of color, and I think that's what you see there in that attack on Senator Harris. He usually uses the word nasty, this time he switched it up to something arguably worse, calling her monster.

To your question, Poppy, it is ludicrous that the Trump-Pence ticket has tried to paint Vice President Biden and Senator Harris as communists or even socialists. There were progressives and at least one Democratic socialist in the Democratic field in the primaries. They lost.

The centrist, moderate, establishment, down the middle candidates won the primary. They won primarily because -- not primarily, but for -- in good part because Democrats decided that, that was their best approach to trying to unseat Trump.

Senator Harris is a mainstream candidate, she did lean left early in the primary on a couple of issues, but anyone who tries to paint her as someone who is on the fringe or radical is simply making up a narrative that they want to project onto this ticket, instead of evaluating her as a candidate and the race and state of our politics which is right now being played on the Democratic side between the 45 yard lines.

It's a narrative that Trump wanted desperately -- SCIUTTO: Yes --

SWERDLICK: To get because he didn't get the match up he wanted in this race.

SCIUTTO: Well, you have the words, sometimes disgusting words coming from the president, but you also have the actions or push to action. And Sabrina, the president was, again, pushing his attorney general to go after his political opponents. Here, I want to play that sound and get your reaction.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TRUMP: To be honest, Bill Barr is going to go down either as the greatest attorney general in the history of the country or he's going to go down as, you know, a very sad situation. I mean, I'll be honest with you. He's got all the information he needs. They want to get more and more, they keep getting more. I said you don't need any more. You got more stuff than anybody has ever had.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: This is the president, Sabrina, talking about going after a whole host of folks that he sees as his enemies including the roots of the Russia investigation. Where does that stand, and is the attorney general listening? Is he bending to this presidential pressure?

SIDDIQUI: Well, I think that we have seen several instances in which Attorney General William Barr has appeared to be at least willing to engage the president, even if there is no evidence whatsoever that there has been any kind of coup on the part of the president's opponents, something that he was claiming once again in that interview.

And it just goes back to this broader theme we've seen from President Trump, where he at times sees the attorney general as his own personal attorney. He has on other -- at other instances seen the Justice Department not as the nation's top law enforcement agency, but as his own personal law enforcement agency.

And I think that, you know, you really have to ask -- when, again, you have less than a month remaining until the election. What the president's strategy is here.

This is an election that has been defined by the coronavirus pandemic, we have those numbers up every day, more than 7.5 million cases across the country and more than 211,000 deaths here in the United States. And the president once again is talking about conspiracy theories, he's talking about going after his political opponents, and what it really suggests is, he just doesn't really have much else to do, right?

[09:25:00]

He doesn't really have much else of a case to make before the American public, and so we see him resorting to some of the tactics we've seen in the past to try and distract and deflect from his record. Again, how is that going to resonate and what does that really mean --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

SIDDIQUI: With less than four weeks --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

SIDDIQUI: To go until the election? I think that really remains to be seen. But certainly not any -- certainly, not what will help turn around his campaign at a time when he needs it the most.

HARLOW: We're glad you're both here this morning. And we thought we were going to be talking about the debate last night.

SCIUTTO: Yes --

HARLOW: My -- how things change. Thank you very much. Jim?

SWERDLICK: Thanks.

SCIUTTO: Senators McConnell, Thune, Barrasso, you're the leaders of Republicans in the U.Ss. Senate. The president just attacked a fellow member of the Senate, Kamala Harris, as monster more than once. Do you have a reaction? Please let us know, we're reaching out. The other story this hour, the two vice presidential candidates doing a lot of dodging, instead of debating. There was more substance than last week's debate, but what questions didn't they answer? More on that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)