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Plot to Kidnap Michigan Governor; Lt. Gov. Garlin Gilchrist (D- MI) is Interviewed about the Plot Against the Governor; Increase in Coronavirus Cases; House to Introduce Presidential Health Commission. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired October 09, 2020 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:30:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Just remarkable news yesterday. A sophisticated, domestic terrorism plot targeting the governor of Michigan. In the wake of it, President Trump tweeting something of a back-handed attack against the governor. The question now was how serious this and what does this say about the larger threat from domestic terrorism, particularly white extremists, Poppy.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: So 13 men now face charges in this alleged scheme. Authorities say their plan was to overthrow several state governments that the suspects, quote, believe are violating the U.S. Constitution.

Our Sara Sidner joins us this morning in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Jim and Poppy, stunning development here in Michigan. Authorities say that they had thwarted a terrorist plot, a domestic terror plot that included targeting members of law enforcement with violence, storming the capital in Lansing, and kidnapping the Michigan governor. All of this happening in the lead-up to the election. They wanted to do it before the election. Clearly, this was a plan of political violence.

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SIDNER (voice over): Thirteen men stand accused of a domestic terrorist plot to overthrow state governments. Some of the suspects CNN found online ranting against the government. One saying --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By you purchasing -- participating in the government, you know, you are participating in slavery.

SIDNER: The FBI says Michigan was to be ground zero.

ANDREW BIRGE, U.S. ATTORNEY FOR WESTERN DISTRICT OF MICHIGAN: Through confidential sources, undercover agents and clandestine reportings, law enforcement learned particular individuals were planning to kidnap the governor.

SIDNER: Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer has drawn angry reactions from armed groups opposed to her restrictions to slow the spread of the coronavirus and investigators say those measures may be why the men targeted Whitmer, wanting to try her for treason.

According to the complaint, the suspects did surveillance on her vacation home and talked of blowing up a bridge to divert police if they attacked that location. The complaint also indicates suspect Adam Fox was leading the charge and was recorded saying, grab the f-ing governor, just gap the b, because at that point we do that, dude, it's over.

BIRGE: The complaint further alleges that Fox purchased a Taser for use in the kidnapping and that the group successfully detonated an improvised explosive device wrapped with shrapnel to test its anti- personnel capabilities.

SIDNER: The federal government charged six men with conspiracy to kidnap Whitmer, the state charged seven others with firearm and terror charges.

GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI): I knew this job would be hard, but I'll be honest, I never could have imagined anything like this.

SIDNER: But in April, national security officials warned that extremist groups are exploiting the coronavirus pandemic to incite violence and bolster racist and anti-government narratives. In this case authorities said men associated with an anti-government group called the Wolverine Watchmen were involved in the alleged kidnap plot. A law enforcement source also telling CNN authorities believe some of the suspects support the extremist Boogaloo movement.

JONATHAN GREENBLATT, CEO, ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE: The Boogaloo movement is a loosely affiliated network of individuals and groups that actively believe in the prospect and want to expedite violent unrest in the streets. What we might describe as civil war.

FRANK MEEINK, FORMER NEO-NAZI: Right now we are in for a fight in all of our life. It's on.

SIDNER: Frank Meeik, a former neo-Nazi who went to prison in the '90s for kidnapping a member of a leftist group, says these kinds of plots are being hatched more now than ever. I spoke with him days before the kidnap plot was known to the public.

SIDNER (on camera): What's the scenario in this election that would create what you're calling the potential of a race war?

MEEINK: I'm telling you that this is going to happen. States like Michigan, states like Wisconsin, the northern states have some wilderness area, there have been militias from other states training up there. They are waiting and hoping that something does go wrong because they want to holed up in them hills and they want to say, we don't want the federal government up here no more. We don't want to let black people or anybody up -- like this is going to be our homeland.

SIDNER (voice over): He says President Trump's rhetoric has emboldened extremists. Governor Whitmer said the same, mentioning the president's words to a far right group during the debate.

WHITMER: Stand back and stand by. Hate groups heard the president's words not as a rebuke, but as a rallying cry, as a call to action.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: And the White House has responded to Whitmer's comments, saying in part that Governor Whitmer is the one sowing division by making these outlandish allegations, that's according to a White House spokesperson.

[09:35:09]

Also saying that America stands united against hate and in support of our federal law enforcement who stopped this plot.

We should also mention that the six men who were federally charged did end up in court on Thursday. They asked for court-appointed attorneys.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: Sara Sidner, so good to have you on this story.

I'm joined now by the lieutenant governor of Michigan, Garlin Gilchrist.

Lieutenant Governor, thanks for taking the time this morning.

LT. GOV. GARLIN GILCHRIST (D-MI): Thank you for having me on.

SCIUTTO: You heard the White House response there to the governor's criticism of the president's rhetoric. It says that the White House, this administration is united against hate.

Your response?

GILCHRIST: This White House is completely detached from the own -- their own reality. The reality that they have sown. The rhetoric that they have used to create the division and derision (ph) and giving people like these men, these terrorist gang members, the green light to pursue a dangerous and violent plot, not only to kidnap the governor of Michigan, but to storm the Michigan capital, to take hostages.

Two of the men who were apprehended were seen in the capital. I saw them with my own eyes in the senate gallery with semi-automatic weapons. These people are dangerous and I thank law enforcement for stopping them.

SCIUTTO: We have pictures of this that our viewers may remember a number of weeks ago when these groups showed up armed to the teeth inside the capitol building. It was alarming at the time, here it is, here are those pictures. It's just remarkable to hear that you recognize some of the faces from this.

You say that the Michigan GOP is complicit in this attempted act of violence.

GILCHRIST: Absolutely.

SCIUTTO: Tell us why.

GILCHRIST: Absolutely.

So, on that same day, with those pictures that you're seeing, leaders of the Michigan Republican Party, and the Michigan legislature, including the senate majority in our state, went and met and fraternized with these armed men in the senate gallery. They legitimized these groups. They support them with their rhetoric.

The -- after these announcements were made about these apprehensions Michigan Republicans went outside to the steps of the state capital and held a rally basically telling these groups to keep up the good work. I mean it's really disgusting and it speaks to why we need to vote out these people and vote in Joe Biden, Kamala Harris and the different culture in our country where we are looking to bring people together, that we reject hatred, racism, misogyny and everything else negative that these people espouse.

SCIUTTO: Now, the attorney general has publicly and falsely, frankly, equated the threat from white supremacists to that of left wing extremism when the FBI's own data and assessments say that it -- right wing extremists is by far the greater threat.

But the attorney general, he also used terms, language that we heard in some of those videos, in Sara Sidner's piece, right, you know, equating national lockdown measures or state by state lockdown measures to slavery.

On the flipside, you did see the Justice Department catch and prosecute these guys. Is this a sign of hope to you that that institution is doing its job?

GILCHRIST: Well, the professionals in these law enforcement organizations I'm confident in them that they will always do their job. I have no confidence in the failed leadership of the attorney general and the president because they don't care about safety, they care about themselves and they don't care who they hurt. Look no further than the failure on the coronavirus.

We have a president who has failed the country, who has led to hundreds of thousands of people dying, who is a super spreader himself of the virus. He's also a super spreader of the dangerous rhetoric that led to these men feeling empowered and emboldened by his rhetoric to try to do harm to people in Michigan.

SCIUTTO: We are 25 days from Election Day, although voting has already begun. We should say we're in the midst of an election here.

What is your concern about how these groups will act, respond to an election, perhaps one that doesn't go their way, that President Donald Trump loses?

GILCHRIST: Well, my concern is that they continue to draw inspiration from a president who for months has questioned the legitimacy of voting itself and the democratic process. And so they will be continually empowered by this man. And that is why we need to do the things that voters in the United States have always done.

The way that we beat hatred, the way that we defeat corruption is by stepping up, by standing tall and by voting in numbers we've ever voted before. They can't cheat and they can't reject the results if we blow them out. So I expect to see record turnout in the state of Michigan and, frankly, record turnout across the country. And that is how we will defeat these people and turn our culture back in the proper direction.

SCIUTTO: The president is calling on supporters to watch the polls carefully. Are you concerned that groups like this, armed groups, might answer that call on and around Election Day?

GILCHRIST: The plot that was thwarted shows you that groups will continue to answer the call of the president for violence and division. And so, yes, we have concerns and that's why law enforcement is taking the proper precautions to make sure that people can vote and vote safely and without intimidation.

[09:40:04]

Again, if these men were willing to intimidate lawmakers themselves with weapons, I think they would be willing to do the same with voters.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

Lieutenant Governor Garlin Gilchrist, thanks so much. We wish you and the people of Michigan safety in the days coming.

GILCHRIST: Thank you for having me, Jim.

HARLOW: We certainly, certainly do.

All right, ahead, coronavirus infections have surged so much in the state of Wisconsin they're now setting up a field hospital to deal with record hospitalizations.

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SCIUTTO: Well, some concerning news here because we're seeing a surge in most states across the country.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Twenty-eight states reporting spikes. [09:45:01]

The U.S. is now averaging 45,000 new COVID infections per day.

HARLOW: That's right. On Thursday alone, the nation saw more than 56,000 new cases. Our colleague, Alexandra Field, joins us again this morning.

Alex, it is -- it is good to have you.

This is hardly where the country wants to be heading in to, right, the key flu and cold season of the fall and the winter.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we really couldn't be much farther from where we wanted to be because if you look back to June and think about where we are today, on average, we're seeing more than double the amount of new cases nationwide today than what we were are seeing even back in June.

So this is exactly the place that public health experts warned against us being in as they continued to raise alarm about the possibility of a twin-demic, that one-two punch of not just the coronavirus but also the flu season.

What we're seeing around the country is not just the number of cases going up, but also the number of hospitalizations with nearly a dozen states nationwide now recording their highest rate of hospitalizations. Wisconsin among those states. They have sounded the alarm bell. They are now opening up a field hospital as soon as next week in order to deal with the surge that could affect their hospital system.

There's a new projection from the University of Washington that by January we could see some 2,900 American deaths daily. Let that number sink in, 2,900 American deaths daily. It is not just the Midwest where we're seeing problems, or the west. We are now seeing them in the northeast, an area of the country that has retained some of the lowest positivity numbers for months now. There are mounting concerns about a second wave here.

New York City is grappling with these clusters of cases that we've been talking about in Brooklyn and Queens. They've implemented in the hardest hit areas some of the toughest restrictions we've seen in months now.

These were some of the restrictions that were initially put in place during the early lockdown period back in March and April, restrictions that had been lifted as the numbers were getting better. But the city very much on guard now about the possible spread of this virus again. Word arriving today that Broadway shows have delayed reopenings at least until May of 2021. That's how cautiously people in the city are proceeding now.

And just across the river, in New Jersey, some disconcerting news as well, just yesterday they reported 1,300 new cases. That's more cases than they've seen in any day since the end of March. Governor Murphy over in New Jersey sounding alarm bells over that number and also going on to castigate the president who told Americans just this week that the virus isn't something that should dominate their lives. All evidence at this point to the contrary.

Poppy. Jim.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Listen to the doctors.

Alexandra Field, thanks very much.

The Constitution says only the president or the cabinet can decide to remove a commander in chief from office. House Democrats now have a plan for lawmakers to get a say as well.

HARLOW: Plus, Kennedy's strength inspired America. The new CNN original series "First Ladies," it profiles Jackie Kennedy, Sunday night, 10:00 Eastern, right here on CNN.

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[09:52:43]

HARLOW: Well, in just a few minutes, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi will unveil a bill that would give Congress a role in determining if a president is capable of carrying out their duties.

SCIUTTO: CNN's Lauren Fox is live on Capitol Hill.

Laura, as a practical matter, without the Senate, this goes nowhere, correct? And the Constitution has different provisions.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Well, that's exactly right, Jim. This bill is likely not going anywhere, especially in the U.S. Senate, controlled by Republicans. But I did just speak with Jamie Raskin, who is a Democrat working with Pelosi on this bill. He introduced something very similar in 2017. But this new piece of legislation would create a 17-person commission.

That commission would be made up of eight Republicans and eight Democrats and then a chairperson that was selected by all of those individuals. The commission would be made up of former executive branch officials. People like vice presidents, former presidents, former secretaries of state, as well as physicians. And when I asked Raskin why that was the case, he essentially said those are the people who understand the duty of the presidency.

What would happen is those individuals would study the president's health. Then, with the vice president, they could make a determination if a majority of them supported moving forward to remove the president.

Essentially, Raskin's argument was, we needed some way to codify what already exists in the Constitution. Right now, what it is very clear is that the cabinet, a majority of the cabinet and the vice president could remove the president. This, essentially, gives Congress a role by creating this commission.

Now, when I asked Raskin, why now? Why are you doing this today? Does this have anything to do with the fact that the president was in the hospital for four days last weekend? He made the point of, there are any number of contingencies for which this could be important.

That we need to make sure we have it spelled out in the letter of the law what exactly would transpire if we had an issue with the transfer of power. He also pointed to the president's comments about whether or not he would trust the election results. So that's why this is being introduced today. But it is very important to remember, Jim and Poppy, that this is going nowhere fast in the U.S. Senate and likely is going to make some even moderate Democrats a little bit nervous given what the president's health is right now.

[09:55:03]

Jim and Poppy.

HARLOW: All right, Lauren, before you go, briefly, just so to be really clear, they're doing this, which is not going to go anywhere, but not holding a press conference on a stimulus deal and not, you know, getting something done for the millions of American people who are waiting on lawmakers to stop fighting over this?

FOX: Well, that's exactly right, Poppy. I mean, look, there are big disagreements between the White House and House Democrats when it comes to a stimulus deal. And there's been a lot of confusion about what the president even wants, whether he even wants to be at the negotiating table when it comes to a stimulus deal.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has been clear, she wants a comprehensive bill. She doesn't want piecemeal legislation where the president get to send out $1,200 checks to individuals ahead of the election. What she wants to do is sit down and come to some kind of an agreement that is more comprehensive.

But, right now, the president, all week, has been back and forth about what he actually wants to see. So now announcement on the stimulus bill today. Instead, they're going to be focusing on this commission.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: Yes. Well, they don't know what it's like to not be able to pay their rent or feed their families.

Lauren Fox, thanks.

We'll be back.

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