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Trump Moves Travel Date Earlier as Questions Remain; Hurricane Delta to Make Landfall Tonight; President Trump Continues Governor Whitmer Attacks After Foiled Kidnapping Plot. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired October 09, 2020 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: So do you even think this will happen?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It doesn't seem like he's going to be on the road this weekend per se, we're still talking to sources about this. Of course, it is logistically hard to pull off a Trump campaign, a Trump rally like he likes to see typically in just a matter of days.

And so they are working on something because, Brianna, the president has been in isolation for the last several days, he's been urging his aides to start scheduling events again, soon. But it may be more closer to Monday when we actually see the president out on the road, though of course he may still do something here in Washington this weekend. It seems like those plans are still being figured out.

But, Brianna, to be clear, the president is moving full steam ahead, saying he is ready to be back in public with clearance from his doctor, though we have not actually heard from the doctor himself in person since Monday. So reporters have not had the chance to question Dr. Conley on why he now thinks the president is ready to be back out on Saturday when previously he said he wouldn't feel good about the president's condition until the following Monday.

It's not clear why those 48 hours are no longer important to Dr. Conley, but also comes as the president is even conceding things were not as rosy as he initially portrayed them early on in this diagnosis, which is just a week ago that he was taken to the hospital.

He told Rush Limbaugh in this, you know, now-two-hour interview that he's done with him, talking about how he was before he took this series of aggressive treatments, this antibody cocktail, these steroids, this supplemental oxygen that the president got. And he was talking about the comorbidities that he had as well.

But what he is doing is overexaggerating the benefits of this antibody cocktail, because no medical professionals have said, this is the reason the president is back at the White House and not still in the hospital. We don't know exactly what it is because we haven't heard from those doctors.

And of course, Brianna, you know, this is like the third time in this pandemic that the president has touted an unproven treatment, describing it as a cure. He did the same thing with hydroxychloroquine, he did the same thing with convalescent plasma. Now, this is actually something that the president took, so it's a different experience for him.

But there still are a lot of unknowns about this antibody cocktail, and that's why it doesn't even have emergency use authorization yet, and was given to the president under something called compassionate use. So all things that are important to keep in mind as the president is touting it as some kind of cure.

KEILAR: Yes. And also I want to ask you about these stimulus talks that are so important to people all over the country, Kaitlan. The president blew up the talks earlier this week. And then today, he signed off on a counteroffer to present to Speaker Pelosi. Tell us what's going on here.

COLLINS: Yes, this is a counteroffer that's higher than what the president and his team had initially said that they would go for during talks with Nancy Pelosi, they went from $1.6 to $1.8 trillion. But then during this interview, the president also just said he wants to go higher than Republicans or Democrats do.

So it's not really clear what that means because of course, we know the Democrats' is much higher than what the president and his team have put on the table. And of course we know Senate Republicans do not want to go for a massive bill. So this has been a head-spinning series of reversals from the president because it was just a few days ago that he cancelled talks, said there was not going to be any kind of coronavirus relief bill by the election, and now he's saying he wants more in a bigger bill than what Democrats have even proposed.

So it's important to keep in mind the president has really been you know, the wild card in this, as he usually is when it comes to talks with Capitol Hill. And the two sides are still far away when it comes to the actual specifics of the bill, which of course will be incredibly important.

KEILAR: Certainly very important. Kaitlan, thank you so much for that update covering the White House for us.

I want to bring in now Dr. Chris Pernell, a public health physician at a hospital in Newark, New Jersey and a volunteer for a clinical trial for a COVID vaccine. She also lost her father to the coronavirus. And we know that's something that really motivates you, Dr. Pernell, as you continue to talk to people about the risks of this disease.

I want to ask you about something the president said, which is that this antibody treatment is better than a vaccine. You know, do you agree? And at this point in time, considering it is not approved -- it's certainly not widely available -- does that matter right now?

CHRIS PERNELL, PUBLIC HEALTH PHYSICIAN WHO LOST FATHER TO COVID: Look, we can't rely on the president to give us public health guidance or public health recommendations because, over and over, he's proven to be a threat to public health. And that's not a political interpretation, that is a professional and medical interpretation.

it is thoroughly important that we have both preventive tools and that we have therapeutics. Therapeutics are what we're currently talking about because of this experimental monoclonal antibody cocktail that the president received, but we can't lose sight that we also need a vaccine.

I think the fact that the president is shifting on what is a priority for him is just because he doesn't understand the public health implications and he doesn't understand the public health science. So we need to rely on those in public health with the expertise and with the insights to deliver.

[14:05:03]

KEILAR: The Health and Human Services Department says they are expecting to have more than a million doses of monoclonal antibodies by the end of the year. Does that seem realistic to you?

PERNELL: I want to know the science, right? I want to know what are the results of the clinical trials that were done with 200-plus persons, let the public health community have access to that information, let us review it. And with that said, then we can think about whether or not we can go through an emergency authorization and then we can think about, even beyond that, how do we get this available for average Americans?

I don't think we should prognosticate before the full science has been declared or before the full information has been shared with the American public and the public health community.

KEILAR: I want to ask you about something the president's doctor says, which is that he is clear to return to the trail tomorrow. And I want to ask you this because what's become very clear is that the president seems to be the one very much calling the shots when it comes to his treatment.

of course you have not treated the president, but I wonder what you think of that recommendation when you think about where he is, when you think about the indicators, about how severe his coronavirus infection has been for him, when you think about his age and his risk factors. Do you think he should be going out on the campaign trail?

PERNELL: This is an emphatic no. We're led to believe -- and I say we are led to believe because there just hasn't been transparency around the public -- around the president's condition, but we're led to believe by the cocktail of medications that he received that the president likely had a severe case of coronavirus.

If the president had a severe case of coronavirus, it is not recommended that those patients come out of isolation before 20 days, not even just 10 days. And according to what we know, the president started to display symptoms last Friday. So if we just do the simple math, that's just not realistically possible.

So I'm not sure what type of advice or what type of guidance the president is being given, but that's not what we consider standard in the public health community.

KEILAR: The president's team has still consistently refused to answer when he had his last negative test. You said, you know, now you have to wait for 20 days of isolation. They're not saying when he had his negative test.

I want you to listen to this exchange today between MSNBC's Hallie Jackson and the deputy White House press secretary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HALLIE JACKSON, MSNBC ANCHOR: When was the president's last negative test prior to his diagnosis?

BRIAN MORGENSTERN, DEPUTY WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: So we don't have that --

JACKSON: You don't know or you don't want to say?

MORGENSTERN: So we don't have that. There's -- well, I don't personally know --

JACKSON: Right, what does that mean?

MORGENSTERN: -- there is --

JACKSON: OK, have you --

MORGENSTERN: -- there are HIPAA --

JACKSON: -- asked, Brian?

MORGENSTERN: -- that -- there's --

JACKSON: I think Wednesday, you said you were going to look into that.

MORGENSTERN: So Hallie, the president doesn't check all of his HIPAA rights at the door just when he becomes president.

JACKSON: So it's a privacy thing, then? The reason why you're not saying the last negative test? HIPAA?

MORGENSTERN: So -- so that is one reason --

JACKSON: Why not be transparent about that specific -- very specific -- piece of information?

MORGENSTERN: So, Hallie, I stated we'll have further updates from the doctors, we've had updates from the doctors every single day, we've had numerous updates per day in some cases --

JACKSON: Nobody's answered this question that I know, have they?

MORGENSTERN: -- I -- we're being extremely transparent. But I'm not sure why you're very focused -- JACKSON: But you're not.

MORGENSTERN: -- on that question because it's not something --

JACKSON: Not about this piece of information.

MORGENSTERN: _- but it's not something that has the public health value.

JACKSON: Did the president at least comply with the Cleveland Clinic debate requirements to be negative-tested in the 72 hours prior to that --

MORGENSTERN: Hallie --

JACKSON: -- debate? Was that -- was the president in compliance with that?

MORGENSTERN: -- there -- you are very focused on looking backwards.

JACKSON: Did the president comply with that? Yes or no?

MORGENSTERN: Hallie, we are looking at how the president can get out there without transmitting the virus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Can you explain why it is so important to have that information about when his last negative test was?

PERNELL: Brianna, we need to piece together what I call this public health puzzle, right? We need to know when the president was last negative, and we need to know when the president first started to display symptoms. We don't know either of those things with any level of certainty.

We definitely don't know when he last had a negative test, which would be helpful in helping us to understand when he was last known not to have symptoms, and it would also be helpful to know because a person can be infectious up to 48 hours before they test positive, right?

So this begins to say was the president out and about in public, was the president exposed to others in the White House or his administration when he was already infectious? That we can't say with any level of certainty.

And then furthermore, we can't say with any level of certainty whether or not the president is safe and recovered enough to be back out rallying, enough to be back out even in Washington, D.C.

I will repeat, it is recommended for those who have mild disease to be isolated for at least 10 days. We don't think the president has mild disease, we think the president has severe disease. Why? Because of the medications that he received. And if the president has severe disease, he should be isolated for 20 days.

[14:10:10]

President Trump is a threat to public health. He undermines public health institutions and he undermines public health guidance and that is dangerous in a pandemic. And we must do whatever we can to restore the public's trust in those public health guidelines.

KEILAR: Dr. Chris Pernell, it is wonderful to see you. Thank you so much for coming on.

PERNELL: Thank you.

KEILAR: The president's attacks on the governor of Michigan, hours after an alleged plot to kidnap her was thwarted: their war of words and the message that it sends to domestic terror groups, next.

Plus, we're tracking Hurricane Delta as it has strong winds and rain that are already reaching Louisiana and Texas. We'll have a live report from the coastal areas that are in the direct path.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:15:09]

KEILAR: Right now, we are keeping an eye on the Gulf Coast as parts of Louisiana are bracing for yet another powerful storm that is sitting just offshore. This is Hurricane Delta, and it is set to make landfall later tonight with wind gusts potentially as high as 100 miles per hour. And this is headed for some areas that were already hit hard by Hurricane Laura just weeks ago.

Delta is the fourth named storm expected to hit Louisiana this season, and our Ryan young is in Lake Arthur, Louisiana.

you know, Ryan, this is a state that is still reeling from Laura, and now they have Hurricane Delta to contend with. How are they getting ready for this?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL REPORTER: Yes, absolutely. We're in (INAUDIBLE), Louisiana, and you can already hear the wind intensifying in this area behind me. You can see how some of the houses have already started to board up.

Yesterday, as we were driving into this area, we saw hours and hours in terms of waiting and people trying to get up the interstate to get out of this area. Look, the evacuation order was ordered, and there are some people who said, look, they've made it through the last three storms, they planned to sit out and wait this. Public safety officials have said once the storm starts, they're not going to be able to go out and save folks.

Now, we've been driving around and seeing desperately -- in terms of people's homes who have already had the blue tarps on top, who are trying to secure those before leaving again. But this has been an ongoing situation, especially at the business that's behind me. They are upset because obviously they've lost business because of COVID, and now the storms back to back to back. About two hours ago, we actually talked to some storm chasers in the

area who believe where we're standing is going to be some of the heaviest winds and rain that we're going to experience over the next few hours. I'm actually bracketed by two buildings to kind of guard me from the wind, but when you step out a little further you really get some of the gusts.

Now so far, about 45 miles per hour. But when you think about the storm coming in the next few hours, you're talking about wind gusts above 100 miles per hour, and that's what so many people are worried about in this area, because the homes have already been battered by the heavy winds over the last few weeks, and that can get multiplied over and over again.

We've seen objects that clearly have come from the last storm that are just sort of loosely around the streets, those could turn into projectiles. So something they're going to have to be watching over the next few hours.

KEILAR: All right, we'll be watching along with you, Ryan Young, thank you for that update from Lake Arthur, Louisiana.

Moments ago, the president, calling Black Lives Matter a racist term. And he goes on about black voters in America. Don Lemon will join me live to discuss.

Plus, the president attacks the governor of Michigan for citing his rhetoric in the kidnapping plot against her.

[14:17:40]

And House Speaker Nancy Pelosi introduces a bill that would give Congress some power in determining whether the president can be removed from office. Hear how President Trump is responding.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, not mincing words toward President Trump just hours after a domestic terrorism plot to kidnap her was exposed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI): Just last week, the president of the United States stood before the American people and refused to condemn white supremacists and hate groups like these two Michigan militia groups. "Stand back and stand by," he told them. "Stand back and stand by."

Hate groups heard the president's words not as a rebuke, but as a rallying cry, as a call to action. When our leaders speak, their words matter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Trump's response? Attack. He tweeted in part, "Governor Whitmer of Michigan has done a terrible job. She locked down her state for everyone except her husband's boating activities. I do not tolerate any extreme violence."

Whitmer hit back this morning on ABC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WHITMER: A decent human being would pick up the phone and say, are you OK? How is your family doing? That's what a decent human being does, that's what Joe Biden did. And I think it tells you everything you need to know about the character of the two people that are vying to lead our country for the next four years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Thirteen men have been arrested, and they now face charges in this alleged scheme. This includes these six right here on your screen who face federal charges.

It's a scheme that authorities say was to overthrow state governments that the suspects believe are violating the U.S. Constitution.

The host of "CNN TONIGHT," Don Lemon, is joining us now. And Don, you look at this, they're all white men. This was domestic. We know that white supremacy and domestic terrorism is the greatest threat to the country right now -- this is according to the director of the FBI, who was hand-picked by the president.

And the president is making law and order a centerpiece of his election appeal. Is there a double standard here? Would this administration, do you think, treat this differently if the defendants were Muslim or black?

DON LEMON, CNN HOST, "CNN TONIGHT": No, it doesn't have to be a hypothetical, Brianna. Good afternoon by the way. No, because when the suspects are Muslim, are black -- or black, this administration treats them differently.

This president takes to Twitter and he takes to the podium and he demonizes people who are Muslim and black, and he tries to paint all Muslim people as terrorists, and he tried to paint all the black people who are protesting out in the streets as violent protestors and rioters, and we know that is not the same thing.

He seems to, when it is a black person or a Muslim person, he wants to demonize them. But when it's a white person, he wants to -- there are very fine people on both sides.

Or in this instance, he just doesn't talk about them and he deflects and he talks about Antifa or some other group that is really -- as far as the FBI and our intelligence folks -- very low on the threat assessment level. Except for these extremist groups, white extremist groups, right-wing extremist groups, very high at the top and he barely even talks about them.

KEILAR: Yes, I just -- I can't imagine any other administration -- Republican or Democrat -- handling it like this.

I do want to ask you about something that happened moments ago because the president was talking about race with conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh, and this is what he said about Black Lives Matter.

LEMON: OK.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (via telephone): The first time I ever heard of Black Lives Matter I said, that's such a terrible term because it's such a racist term. It's a term that sows division between blacks and whites and everybody else, and it's a very bad term -- for blacks. But they were very angry, it's a Marxist organization.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KEILAR: Black Lives Matter, he says, is a racist term.

LEMON: It's a very angry term for blacks, I'm glad he is blacksplaining what is bad for black people as a white racist who is in the White House.

He is -- the president is obviously delusional, we have known that for decades, even before he became president, that Donald Trump was delusional. He is playing a president on television now, he is pretending -- as he pretended in "The Apprentice."

This president does not understand America, let alone black America. So he is desperate right now, he -- Brianna, he is throwing things against the wall. Consider the sources. It is Donald Trump on with Rush Limbaugh. I feel like I don't even need to respond to it but I will because it's so ridiculous and I have to because he is president of the United States.

This president is a racist, he's a race-baiter. And this is the reason that people should vote, I'm just going to say it. This is the reason people should vote, because this is the thinking that is taking over our country.

People think that they can arrest a governor and it's OK, people think that they can talk about Black Lives Matter and call people Marxists and call Kamala Harris names -- what did he call her, a monster and a communist.

KEILAR: Yes.

LEMON: That's the thinking that's taken over this country. Why? Because the person at the top condones it, and he promotes it and they think that it's OK to say those things and be the way they are, which -- bigots and racists.

KEILAR: Don, thank you so much for coming on. It is so lovely to see you, my friend --

LEMON: It's good to see you --

KEILAR: -- and we're going to --

LEMON: -- can I just say one more thing?

KEILAR: Yes.

LEMON: -- because my mom told me to say hello to you.

KEILAR: Oh, hi, Mom.

LEMON: I just want to say hello to all the folks who are down in Louisiana and the storm is coming their way, I want you to be safe. I love you and I'm thinking about you, and we'll be covering it so make sure you tune in to know what to do and be safe.

KEILAR: Yes. They've gotten hit here multiple times, so we're keeping an eye on that, Don. Thank you so much.

LEMON: Thanks, Brianna.

KEILAR: And we know you'll be watching it tonight on your show --

LEMON: Yes.

KEILAR: -- you can watch Don at 10:00 p.m. Eastern.

President Trump, making the very unscientific claim today that the antibody cocktail he took for COVID-19 is a cure.

[14:28:26]

And still, we heard the vice president insist this week that President Trump listens to the science. We're going to roll the tape, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:30:00]