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President Trump Back to Rallies; U.K. Classify COVID Restrictions; FBI Caught Plot Against Gov. Whitmer; Gov. Whitmer Calls Out Trump Over Violence; Doctors Clear Trump For Public Events On Saturday; U.S. House Speaker Questions Trump's State; In Reversal, Trump Says He's Interested In Stimulus Deal; Hurricane Delta Strengthens To Category Three; Hurricanes Batter U.S. Gulf Coast As Wildfires Scorch West; CNN Investigates On Hair Business; Hundreds Arrested In Jakarta At Protest Over Labor Law; The Fly In The Room. Aired 3-4a ET
Aired October 09, 2020 - 03:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[03:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBYN CURNOW, CNN ANCHOR: Hi. Welcome to our viewers joining us from the world. I'm Robyn Curnow. You are watching CNN.
So just ahead on the show, lingering questions, when was the last time the U.S. president tested negative for COVID? Trump, his aides and doctors all refuse to say.
Now the FBI caught an alleged plan to start a civil war and kidnap a state governor.
Plus, an exclusive CNN investigation, the connection between forced labor in China and a multibillion-dollar beauty industry in the United States.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Live from CNN center, this is CNN Newsroom with Robyn Curnow.
CURNOW: A great deal of mystery still surrounds the health of the U.S. president following his hospitalization for COVID. Now, the biggest unknown is whether Donald Trump is still actively and carrying and spreading the disease. Now, here's what he told Sean Hannity on Fox News just a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I think I'm going to try doing a rally on Saturday night if we can -- if we have enough time to put it together. But we want to do a rally in Florida -- probably in Florida on Saturday night. Might come back and do one in Pennsylvania in the following night. And it's incredible what's going on. I feel so good.
SEAN HANNITY, HOST, FOX NEWS: Have you had a test since your diagnosis a week ago?
TRUMP: Well, what we're doing is probably the test will be tomorrow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW: Well, the president is already claiming falsely that he secured, but his physician only says that he has completed the latest round of drug therapy and should be able to resume public activity on Saturday. White House reporters have not seen the president since he returned to the White House on Monday. Despite aides saying he's been working in the Oval Office for the past two days.
And on Capitol Hill, there is growing alarm among Democrats about the president's behavior since leaving hospital. On Friday, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi will propose a bill giving Congress a role in determining if a president is unfit to stay in office.
Meanwhile, next week's second presidential debate may be back on again. The Trump campaign changed its position for a second time late Thursday after clearance from the White House doctor.
Jim Acosta now reports on the back and forth. Jim.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Still dodging the White House press corps and opting for his own West Wing video crews to send out live messages to the world, President Trump is backing out of his next debate with Democrat Joe Biden refusing to agree to a virtual virus free format.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I heard that the commission a little while ago changed the debate style and that's not acceptable to us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So --
TRUMP: I'm not going to do a virtual debate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Claiming the president won't be contagious in a matter of days, the Trump campaign proposed postponing that debate for a week, drawing a tight response from one top Biden official who said, quote, "Trump's erratic behavior does not allow him to rewrite the calendar and pick new dates of his choosing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We don't know what the president is going to do. He changes his mind every second.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: It was just one week ago when Mr. Trump accused Biden of wanting to skip the remaining debates.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Now I understand he is canceling the debates, let's see what happens, I think that's not going to be a good move for him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Candidates have debated remotely before as John F. Kennedy and Richard Nixon did fromtwo2 different studios in 1960.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Mr. Vice President, I'm speaking.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Democrats are accusing Mr. Trump of sexism after he called Kamala Harris a monster and a communist in response to her performance at the vice-presidential debate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And this monster that was on stage with by Mike Pence who destroyed her last night, by the way but, but this monster.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: In the White House video the president who has been administered a combination of experimental medications is claiming he has been cured of the coronavirus but that's not true as there is no cure for COVID-19.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: But we have medicines right now, and I call them a cure, I went into the hospital a week ago, I was very sick. And I took this medicine and it was incredible. It was incredible. I could have walked out the following day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Mr. Trump is boasting his natural attributes are an asset too.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm back because I made perfect physical specimen and I'm extremely young. So, I'm lucky in that way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi isn't buying that one.
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REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), UNITED STATES SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Specimen, did he say specimen maybe I could agree with that. His disassociation from reality would be funny if it weren't so deadly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Dr. Anthony Fauci cautioned the president could still suffer a setback.
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ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: One of the issues that we all have to be aware and his positions are aware of this -- that the history of COVID-19 is that you could look and feel like you're doing reasonably well, and after a couple of days, you could have a downturn.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Aspect of the president's health remains a mystery. CNN has confirmed some medical professionals at Walter Reed Medical Center were asked to sign nondisclosure agreements when the president made a last visit minute there almost one year ago.
[03:05:06]
Mr. Trump is speculating that he caught the virus that event for gold star families. But one gold star group says the families tested negative beforehand.
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TRUMP: I'm not going to be in a basement saying I can't see you as you traveled in from California and all the different places. It's OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: The White House is trying to clean up that one too.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALYSSA FARAH, WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: And I appreciate you asking that so we can clarify. His point was merely that in the timeframe that he was potentially exposed, there were a number of different venues that he had been out and individuals he had interacted with.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: And White House officials say they won't be specifying exactly when the president had his last negative test for COVID-19, insisting that's Mr. Trump's private medical information, adding that the doctors would like to keep that information for now private. Of course, Mr. Trump could make all of that information public. And as we reported here at CNN the president was not being tested daily prior to his positive results for COVID-19.
Jim Acosta, CNN, the White House. CURNOW: So, with us now is CNN political analyst and White House
reporter for the Washington Post, Toluse Olorunippa, and he joins us now from Washington.
So, good to speak to you. What a week. But I do want to break down the comments the president has been making in just the past few hours. What strikes you about his conversations particularly when it comes to COVID and rallies?
TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: The present is eager and anxious to get back on the campaign trail and he says that he is going to be holding a rally as early as this weekend, as early as this Saturday, which we know is just, you know, about 10 days after he was first diagnosed with the coronavirus and we still don't know sort of, whether or not he continues to be contagious and infectious. But he is really anxious to get back on the campaign trail.
He's been on quarantine of some kind for the past week plus, and this is the final stretch of the campaign and it's clear that the president is going to get back out there and start campaigning even if it may not be safe in terms of the public health for him to be out in big crowds and having big groups gathering.
But he is talking about getting back on the campaign trial. He's talking about, essentially saying that he is immune at this even though it's not clear that he is or that he's no longer infectious. But he's really talking about this battle that he's had with the coronavirus as if he is already defeated it, as if he has already put it behind him, as if he's able and capable of going back about his business and going back to the major rallies and major events that led to the spread of this virus not only in the White House but also directly in the Oval Office with the president and the first lady contracting this disease.
CURNOW: Yes. But the messaging here beyond the public health concerns about the president or anybody infecting a lot of people in a rally type scenario, the messaging to ordinary Americans just before the election when so many people have died of COVID.
OLORUNNIPA: The president seems to be really pushing this message that he was tough, that he got the best medicine and, you know, the coronavirus is not something that people should be afraid of or that people should allow to dominate their lives.
And essentially the 211,000 plus Americans who have died over the past 2seven months the president is saying, you know, this is not something that we need to worry about, that we now have all of these drugs, all of this experimental treatments that he was able to get access to.
And you know, Americans should just go back to normal, get back into big crowds, pretend like this coronavirus crisis is not happening. And it's really a message that's far out of step with the reality on the ground, which is that the number of cases is growing on a daily basis where we're losing almost 1,000 Americans every day are dying to this virus.
And the president, you know, can pretend that this is not a major problem or a major challenge or something that is fading away, but that is not the case. So by sending a message that it's OK to go back into big crowds, it's OK to continue holding rallies it really pushes a message that it's far out of step with the actual reality of people continuing to contract this disease and dying at very high numbers, even as the president says this is something that we don't have to worry about.
CURNOW: And politically, what's the impact of this messaging as well? We're seeing him dip in the polls quite significantly, and with that in mind, not taking part in a virtual debate with Joe Biden. Who loses out of that more? I mean, is this the president who needs this virtual debate more than Joe Biden?
OLORUNNIPA: According to the polls, the president needs something to change the trajectory of the race, much more than his rival. Right now, the president is losing significantly in the public polling to Joe Biden. He's behind in most of the swing states. He's behind on the national level. And he needs something to change the race over the next four weeks. Otherwise he is going to be a one-term president.
[03:09:55]
So, some of his advisers are trying to get him to change his mind about pulling out of this debate, get him to find out some ways to participate in the debate. They realize that even if the president is doing rallies, you're never going to get the same kind of audience that you get with a national televised debate with your rival multiple times the number of millions of Americans will be watching if this debate takes place.
CURNOW: Toluse, always good to speak to you. Thanks so much. I appreciate you joining us.
OLORUNNIPA: Thank you.
CURNOW: U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar is talking up his own timeline for delivering a vaccine.
Here's Nick Watt with that. Nick?
NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Protests in New York City's COVID-19 hotspots. Some schools, stores, indoor dining were closed again today. Religious services limited.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D-NY): We can stop this challenge from turning into a full blown second wave and we must.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATT: A field hospital is about to open in Wisconsin. The Tennessee Titans now under NFL investigation after 23 positive tests and a non- sanctioned practiced. Kentucky's mask mandate just extended another 30 days.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ANDY BESHEAR (D-KY): We are on case unfortunately to have another record week.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATT: In fact, these 11 states setting records right now. Highest average daily case counts ever, in just 2 states, home to less than 2 percent of Americans, average new case counts are actually falling, Alabama and Hawaii, latest national numbers, more than 50,000 new cases Wednesday, and more than 900 dead.
Meanwhile, on the much hoped for vaccine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEX AZAR, SECRETARY, UNITED STATES HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: Pending FDA authorizations, we believe we may have up to 100 million doses by the end of the year, enough for every American who wants a vaccine by March to April, 2021.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATT: The morning after, the vice president said this to Kamala Harris.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Stop playing politics to people's lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATT: His boss, the president, is doing exactly that, claims there's now a COVID cure. There is not.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The Regeneron, which I view it as a cure, not just a therapeutic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATT: He took an experimental antibody therapy made by Regeneron. Eli Lilly is developing something similar. Both just applied to the FDA for emergency use authorization.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIA BARTIROMO, FOX BUSINESS ANCHOR: Are they going to get?
TRUMP: Yes, they going to get it. Yes, they're going to get it.
(END VIDEO CLIP) WATT: That decision must be apolitical. The president still playing politics with people's lives again and again.
Now, down in Miami-Dade, Florida, they opened schools in person earlier this week just had their first confirmed case, an elementary school kid. They have apparently traced all the contacts. Everyone is quarantining for 14 days who has been in contact with his infected child.
They apparently sanitized the school overnight. There will be cases as schools reopen. The question is, can authorities keep a lid on those cases?
Nick Watt, CNN, Los Angeles.
CURNOW: Now, it isn't just the U.S. that is seeing its cases rise. Countries across Europe are tightening restrictions as their numbers spike as well. The Paris region of France is mobilizing an emergency plan to deal with an expected flood of COVID patients. Occupied ICU beds there have now reached 40 percent capacity.
And then in Britain, health secretary is warning the country is at perilous moment. But the country reported more than 17,000 new cases on Thursday. And in Italy, also, has seen another jump. It is the largest daily increase there since the height of its first wave in April.
We are going to take you to all of those countries live but I want to begin in Rome. Delia Gallagher is there. Delia, hi. What's the situation there right now? Obviously, you guys, one of the countries that felt the effects of this first in Europe. What's happening right now?
DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Robyn, as you say, Italy has seen its highest daily increase in new cases in six months on Thursday. They reported 4,458 new cases. And while they haven't yet gone the other way of other European countries by imposing curfews on bars and restaurants or having to shut down businesses, they have imposed the wearing of mandatory masks outdoors.
And there is a fine of up to 1,000 euros for those who fail to comply. The prime minister, Giuseppe Conte, said this measure was necessary to avoid having to shut down businesses. The -- Italy has also put the United Kingdom on their list of high-risk countries. That means anybody traveling to Italy from the U.K. must now undergo swab test at the airport and other points of entry.
There are other European countries already on that list, such as France, Spain, Greece, Belgium, the Netherlands. They have also extended their state of emergency, Robyn, until January 31st. Robyn?
[03:14:59]
CURNOW: OK, thanks for that update there, Delia Gallagher in Rome. Thanks, Delia.
So, I want to take you now to the U.K. where rising case numbers have officials considering a range of options to spread the virus.
Salma Abdelaziz is in London with that. So, what are they looking at, what kind of range of reactions are they looking at here?
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN PRODUCER: Well, Robyn, there's been no official announcement yet. That's supposed to come next week. But of course, local media has received reports that what is being considered is a three-tier system. So essentially you would cut up all of the three geographic regions of the U.K. You would put them in one of these three levels.
If an area is found to be at the highest level, level three, that would mean it would come with extra lockdown restrictions, potentially the shutting down of restaurants, and bars, and the banning of mixing of any household. And also, potentially, if the government announces they said it would include some sort of economic package, a furlough scheme to help those businesses that will have to close down under these new restrictions.
Now the areas that are under most concern for the government are the north of the country, Manchester, Liverpool, New Castle. There has been a surge in cases, a surge in hospital -- hospitalizations, rather, in those areas. We were hearing yesterday from Health Secretary Matt Hancock saying that the U.K. is now at a perilous moment.
The fear, of course, is that this rise in cases will turn into a second wave. That's something the government desperately wants to avoid. But this is already stirring controversy before it's even been announced, before it's even become official, because local city councils are feeling they are being cut out of the decision-making.
Some mayors saying, they are finding out from local new newspapers what Westminster is deciding rather than from 10 Downing Street directly. So, a lot of concern, a lot of hand wringing as this country tries to battle a rise in cases, Robyn.
CURNOW: OK, thanks for that. Salma Abdelaziz there in London. So now I want to take you to Paris. And Melissa Bell is standing by there.
Melissa, hi. So, we understand Paris is also mobilizing an emergency plan. That's because hospital beds are starting to fill up. What's happening where you are?
MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. You just Salma there talked about the U.K.'s plans to divide the country up into zones according to how high they are. This was already the case in France with two mainland France cities affected by that maximum alert category, Paris and Marseille. And what that means of course is that bars and cafes have been closed. The restrictions are much tighter than they are elsewhere.
What we learned yesterday was that several other French cities are now going to enter that alert category which means that they too will see a further tightening of restrictions. But you're right, the Paris region has been particularly hard hit by this second wave. And what we found out yesterday was that the regional hospitals, those
in the greater Paris region have put in place this emergency plan because they fear this flood of COVID-19 patients over the coming days. Already we've seen that doubling of the number of COVID-19 patients in ICU in the greater Paris region in just two weeks.
And according to the projections of the local hospitals that could reach, that will continue to grow over the course of October, we had over 450 COVID-19 patients in ICU in the greater Paris region. By the end of October, according to their projections, if it all continues as it is it will be up to a thousand.
And that of course, will take us beyond the maximum alert category that we're in and into a state of what the French described as sanitary urgency. And of course, that would mean a further lockdown, and no down -- no doubt a regional one this time, rather than a national one as we saw in the first one.
But clearly, all eyes very much on those people entering ICUs and how authorities can ensure that the health system continues to cope, Robyn.
CURNOW: OK. Stay safe, Melissa Bell there in Paris. Thanks, Melissa.
So, you are watching CNN. Still to come, a plot to targeting the governor of Michigan unravels. Officials call it domestic terrorism. That story is right next.
[03:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CURNOW: Welcome back, wherever you are.
So, 13 people are facing criminal charges in an alleged domestic terrorism plot. Six of them are charged with conspiracy to kidnap the governor of the U.S. State of Michigan. Now, court documents say the scheme was part of a larger plan to overthrow several state governments. The goal, allegedly, to start a civil war.
Here is Jessica Schneider with more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI): I knew this job would be hard, but I'll be honest, I never could've imagined anything like this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer speaking out about the plot to kidnap her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WHITMER: You don't have to agree with me, but I ask one thing, never forget that we are all in this together. (END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHNEIDER: Today, the FBI charging six men in the conspiracy, saying the group plotted to kidnap the governor from her vacation home before the election. Authorities became aware of the scheme as they monitored social media and discovered a group of men based in Michigan, mapping out how to violently overthrow government officials, and target law enforcement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW BIRGE, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY, WESTERN DISTRICT OF MICHIGAN: The alleged conspirators using operational security measures including communicating by encrypted messaging platforms, and use code words and phrases in an attempt to avoid detection by law enforcement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHNEIDER: Law enforcement was able to track the group by using informants and undercover agents who recorded the men when they visited the governor's vacation home two times.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIRGE: Fox and Croft, in particular according to the complaint, discussed detonating explosive devices to divert police from the area of the home. And Fox even inspected the underside of a Michigan highway bridge for places to seat an explosive.
The complaint further alleges that Fox purchased a taser for use in the kidnapping, and that the group successfully detonated an improvised explosive device wrapped with shrapnel to test its anti- personnel capabilities.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHNEIDER: State officials announcing separate terrorism charges against seven other men, saying they plan to instigate civil war, target police officers, and storm the capital building in Lansing, taking hostages including Governor Whitmer.
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MATTHEW SCHNEIDER, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY, EASTERN DISTRICT OF MICHIGAN: All of us in Michigan can disagree about politics. But those disagreements should never ever amount to violence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHNEIDER: Whitmer has been a frequent target of President Trump over her coronavirus response. Trump saying this at a rally in her state last month.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You'd be doing even better if you had a governor that knew what the hell she was doing. You got to open up the state.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHNEIDER: And tweeting, liberate Michigan, in April.
Protesters, some armed, have even gathered at the state capital, calling for an end to Whitmer's stay-at-home order, the governor today blaming Trump for escalating the rhetoric.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WHITMER: Stand back and stand by. Hate groups heard the president's words not as a rebuke, but as a rallying cry, as a call to action. When our leaders speak, their words matter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHNEIDER: Republicans around Michigan have rallied in support of Governor Whitmer, a Democrat. But White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany is calling Whitmer's comments divisive and outlandish saying this, quote, "President Trump has continually condemned white supremacists and all forms of hate." But leaving out the fact that it did take President Trump two days after that last debate to actually condemn white supremacists.
Jessica Schneider, CNN, Washington.
CURNOW: The Michigan -- the Michigan Governor, Gretchen Whitmer says that the Trump administration isn't doing enough to stop hate and division in the U.S., and she wants the White House to take a stronger stand against violence and terrorism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WHITMER: I have raised this very issue with this White House, and ask them to bring the heat down. I have asked leaders, Republican leaders in the state, let's bring the heat down.
I was aware of a lot of the threats that were being made against me and my family, and I asked for their help. And they didn't do a darn thing about it and then denied even knowing that it was a problem. And here we are, we came very close to a plot that was to kidnap me and to murder. That is what the affidavit say.
[03:25:03]
Also, to hurt law enforcement, to bomb our capital, meaning all the press and the Democrats and Republicans in our capital. This cannot stand. And we have to call it up for what it is. It is domestic terrorism.
And I quoted Ronald Reagan in my comments earlier today, because there are good Republicans who stand up and take this on. I do have kids and a husband who have seen people with automatic rifles on our front lawn, more weekends than I care to name how many. But this is a moment where as Americans we need leaders who can bring
us together. We need leaders who recognize the enemy is the virus, not our fellow Americans. And these are hard times, but we're going to get through them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW: You are watching CNN. So still to come, people in Louisiana are bracing for another major hurricane. Many are still recovering from the last one that hit just a few weeks ago. We'll have the latest update on that.
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CURNOW: Welcome back. I'm Robyn Curnow, live from CNN world headquarters here in Atlanta.
So, President Trump's physician says he expects the president to return to public engagements this Saturday, just a few weeks ago until election day. Mr. Trump claims he is well. And it is clear he wants to be back on the campaign trail. He spoke on Thursday to Fox News' Sean Hannity and appeared to cough. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They oscillated my mics when I had the one debate with three debates with Hillary. And I think the first debate they -- excuse me. On the first debate, they oscillated the mic. And they also oscillated it very, very seriously.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW: Well the state of the president's health is still unclear. Full information is yet to be provided by the White House. A former vaccine director who recently left the federal government had this to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD BRIGHT, FORMER DIRECTOR, HHS BIOMEDICAL ADVANCED RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY: You know, what we are missing in this whole situation is transparency about really how sick the president is. We don't really have the truth about when he was infected, what stage of infection he is in. I don't think we know all of the various treatments he was given, in what combination, in what dosage. It's very dangerous.
He is in charge of a lot of things, he makes a lot of important decisions for our country and for the world actually. And if he is not in the right sound mind to make those decisions rationally, then he can be very reckless for our country and for the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW: Well, Rick Bright's lawyer say he was forced to leave his job because the Trump administration, quote, "ignored scientific expertise, overrules public health guidance, and disrespects career scientists."
[03:30:00]
We are going to speak now to Dr. Peter Drobac, he is an infectious disease and global health expert at the University of Oxford. Doctor, hi, good to see you. So, you heard there, the White House is being evasive on when Mr. Trump took his last COVID test. We are not getting a lot of transparency in terms of the details of the treatment, but doctors have cleared him for events this weekend. How convinced are you that he is not infectious?
PETER DROBAC, GLOBAL HEALTH EXPERT, OXFORD SAID BUSINESS SCHOOL: Well, thank you for having me, Robyn. I am concerned. You know, it would be unusual at this stage of an illness for someone, no longer to be infectious. Now, the situation with the president is different, because he did receive this experimental antibody treatment, which does have some evidence that it can reduce the viral load. It is hard to speculate, because we have so little information.
Normally, people with a significant COVID-19 infection would be shedding virus for typically around 10 days to two weeks, sometimes less, sometimes more. The way to know for sure, of course, would be simply to multiple PCR tests, and test for the viral and see if there is a detectable amount of virus in the respiratory tract.
We haven't seen any evidence of that as being done or at least that information is being shared. There is another concern though with regard to the president potentially going back out on the campaign trail, and doing other events.
And that is, there is still a very active, real outbreak, of COVID-19 in the White House. We are getting reports of new cases every day. The president doesn't go to events by himself. He goes with an entourage. So, there is still a risk that others in that entourage may also be potentially infectious.
CURNOW: And just from a patient doctor point of view, I mean, you heard him coughed there, he was a little bit cocky in that interview. That is certainly no indication of the state of his health, but how concerned would you be, as a doctor, for a patient a man of his age, his weight, the fact that he is a man going out and being so exposed after having disinfection, or during it?
DROBAC: We have limited information. Of course, it is hard for me to speculate, having not examined him. However, we do know, from some of the evidence that was given, that he did have what would be classified as severe disease. That he did require oxygen, early on his course. We haven't seen results of lung scans, but all signs suggest there probably was an element of pneumonia. And that can, sometimes, have a long, and unpredictable course of recovery.
We know that people can feel well, and then have a turn for the worse. And that tends to happen, early in the second week of illness. So, right about where we are right now. So, as the president's doctors have said, you know, we should not think we are out of the woods until at least about 10 days out. So, I think that there is concern about making sure the president can make a significant recovery, before he takes on a full slate of work.
CURNOW: And we know that the Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, suggesting that the president is in a quote, altered state. We heard there, another doctor suggesting, you know, was he of sound mind? How sick is he? And they are specifically referring to the fact that he has been taking steroids. What is the impact of steroids on somebody?
DROBAC: Well, steroids, like dexamethasone which was given to the president, particularly in those high doses, do you have a number of significant side effects. They can make people feel sometimes good, but sometimes agitated. They can affect sleep patterns. They can sometimes cause symptoms like even mania and psychosis.
So, it is quite common to see a range of these symptoms when given in high doses. Again, we don't have enough information to know how this may, or may not be affecting the president. But it certainly is something of a concern.
CURNOW: OK. Dr. Peter Drobac there, thank you very much for joining us, always good to get your expertise, thanks doctor.
DROBAC: Thank you.
CURNOW: Well, the U.S. President, now telling his allies, he is also interested in a large-scale stimulus deal, that's what a person familiar with those conversations is telling us. Mr. Trump has been certainly sending mixed messages, for days now, confusing Americans impacted by the pandemic, who need stimulus checks and confusing Wall Street as well.
So, let's go to our business editor, John Defterios. Hi, John. So, this is a political type of war, but are we seeing any progress as many Americans, as we've spoken throughout this pandemic, suffer through this crisis?
JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: Well, the over $1 trillion question that is not answered just yet, Robyn is it a piecemeal approach that the president has sent mixed signals on that front, or is it a comprehensive plan that is on the table? And as we speak here, the focus is on the airline sectors, $25 billion, they could have passed that separately a long time ago.
Small businesses and paycheck protection program, and then the average American. We have to remember, 26 million, there's still collecting jobless benefits. That is about one out of six households that are not in steady employment at this stage. So, what does this boiled down to?
[03:35:07]
Donald Trump on one side, the Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, on the other in what I'd like to call mind the gaps because the gaps have been there for a while, but they are shrinking. The House package that went through in June was a $2.2 trillion. The White House is now indicating, it can come to $1.6 trillion. Then you have the Senate Republicans, who were never really in the game. Because they didn't want to put another stimulus package that is wide reaching on the table. That was a half-trillion dollars.
So, you can see what would be a strike point, if you will, somewhere between $1.6, and $2.2 trillion. We have to remember, Jerome Powell, the head of the Federal Reserve Board, the Central Bank in the United States said, don't pull back at this stage and provide the uncertainty. The other thing I would add here, if you look at the G7 industrialized countries, or even the wider G20, the United States is the only economy wrestling, politically with the follow-up stimulus package.
You do not see this debate in other countries around the world. And as the number one economy, people are questioning, what is going on here? Is it election year politics blocking the health of the American worker? And to be a candidate right now, Robyn, that seems to be the case with an erratic president.
CURNOW: And I just want to switch gears slightly with we are watching the storm, hurricane Delta is moving towards Louisiana. It is intensifying, we are going to obviously monitored over the next few days here at CNN, but what sort of havoc is this causing for all these offshore oil and gas platforms? Particularly, because six weeks ago, we saw another hurricane go through that very same area.
DEFTERIOS: I was about to say, Robyn, for the last month, we've been talking about this often on during the hurricane season, the influences it is having. The one thing I can add here is that the oil and gas industry has gone a lot better since hurricane Katrina. So they had a decade and a half to perfect the trade and batten down the hatches. But the storms are much more voracious, and therefore the flooding, much more dangerous at the same time.
So, where are we today? 91 percent of the output of oil and gas has been shut in in the Gulf of Mexico. That adds up to about 1.7 million barrels a day, just over 10 percent of American output. And as a result, we've seen oil prices go up this week, quite substantially from a low base, I should add, by about 10 percent.
So, this will have an impact on the U.S. oil market and perhaps, gas prices going forward, depending on the damage afterwards, and also, exports of U.S. natural gas coming out of Louisiana, and Texas.
The other twist here, that Americans are not aware of probably, is that we have seen oil and gas workers strike in Norway. So, they had a lot of oil and gas come off the market in Norway, and while we see this price rise ahead of the election year.
Again, this is climate change, the veracity of the storm is much more intense, but an industry that is certainly improved over the last two decades, at least.
CURNOW: OK. Thank you so much, John Defterios, I appreciate it.
DEFTERIOS: Thank you.
CURNOW: So, let's update you on hurricane Delta. As I was saying there with John, it is once again gaining strength in the Gulf of Mexico. So, we know evacuations are underway along the Louisiana coast, with Delta expected to make landfall later on today. Now just six weeks ago, as we were saying, the state was hit by Hurricane Laura.
So, let's go to Pedram Javaheri. Pedram is tracking this ferocious storm for us. And talk us through what folks can expect on the ground? Hi.
PEDRAM JAVAHERI, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Robyn, it just continues, you know, from the damage that is already been in place from Laura, as you noted. Damage, still in place there, an incredible amount of damage, still in place across the region, homes with tarps on the rooftops. Of course, we are talking about that was a category four, this now, a major hurricane category three on approach across this region.
But really, the wind field of the system is really quite a bit expansive as it in the last couple of hours. We've seen it widen out on approach, meaning the impacts on could be rather widespread as well. But you will notice, the water temperatures in advance of it are going to be a little bit cooler.
So, we do expect the system, if anything, to maintain its intensity or potentially weaken just a little on approach. But, water has an incredible amount of memory, so the ocean itself has already been displaced, the water has been displaced, and the damage just from the previous storm in the wake of Laura. You kind a see a satellite depiction, or aerial perspective of this particular region.
We know that particular storm destroyed or damaged severely over 100,000 homes. Some eight million cubic yards of debris on the ground, of which about one and a half million have been cleared out. So, still, a large amount of debris on the ground across this region that could essentially become a dangerous and hazardous scenario with an incoming system in a height of it.
We had 1 million customers, 1 million people, without power across the region of the gulf coast states and 12 billion dollars in losses as well. But still, incredibly still some people without power on the immediate coast. So, within about say, 12 to 16 hours, we will have this storm make landfall, right along the same general region as Laura did. Possibly, with winds, that are just as slightly weaker than what was the case a few weeks back.
[03:40:06]
But hurricane warnings have been prompted, once again in the identical spots. And officials are telling us that people actually taking the storm even more seriously than Laura. Of course, seen what occurred with that particular storm. Evacuations now in greater numbers across the region.
But here is the breakdown of the model comparisons, a bit of a better agreement in the latest model run here. As far as when we think the storm will make landfall, which looks to be right around 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. local time on Friday, and also, the intensity. It looks to be at least a category two, possibly still a category three on approach. So, with that said, the amount of water that has been displaced, could
see some of these regions with five to eight foot storm surge, as high as 11 foot storm surge in spots, not far from Morgan City. And we're talking about 11 feet, about three feet is what it takes to move a vehicle. About six feet, of course, you bring that in, essentially gets to top with most people heads.
And then you take that up to 10 or 11 feet, it is the top of a one story building. So, that is the amount of water we are talking about moving into an area, that is very low lying and of course, can traverse many, many kilometers inland as well. So, here is the forecast perspective and moving forward and kind of comparing what has happened, as you say in recent weeks. We know, at least 3 named systems made landfall across the state of Louisiana. This particular hurricane season, this will be the 4th, and this will also be a record for the region as well.
And of course, the 2020 season, Robyn, has been incredible as well, upwards of nine systems have made landfall. Delta would be the 10th, which also happens to be the record for the continent of the United States, for most landfall-ing named systems in the U.S. in one season. So, incredible season continues, we still have about 6 weeks left before the season officially comes to an end. We will see if things begin quieting down here moving forward. Robyn?
CURNOW: I hope so, but it is 2020. So, those are the kind of. Anyway, thank you, lovely to see you, Pedram.
JAVAHERI: Thanks, likewise.
CURNOW: So, as we were saying there, with hurricane Delta approaching the gulf coast, there are also wildfires burning out of control in the western U.S. Let's give you an update on that. The glass fire in California's wine country, scorched more than 27,000 hectares, according to officials and it is still spreading. Those firefighters battle multiple blazes across California.
Now, these intense fires and more frequent hurricanes, help inspire Britain's Prince William to create a reward for solutions to environmental challenges. It is called the earth shock prize, 1 million pounds, for 5 different people, working to fix the climate crisis.
Ahead on CNN, here is a multibillion dollar business in the U.S. Where some of the products are being made? With an exclusive CNN investigation reveals, that is next. Stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CURNOW: Welcome back. So, the business of hair is booming, especially here in the United States. Most consumers though don't know where hair is made, whether it is synthetic or human.
[03:45:07]
So, we are going to Ivan Watson now, to talk us through a story, an exclusive story, after a month long investigation that he can explain to us. Hi, Ivan.
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi Robyn. This was a surprise for me, learning that hair is a valuable international commodity. It is shipped, every day, across borders. And it is supposed to make consumers feel good and beautiful and attractive. But the fact is, that the supply chain behind these products is very murky.
And that was underscored in July when U.S. Customs and Border Protection announced the seizure of 13 tons of hair product that had been shipped from China's Xinjiang region. And Customs accuse the company who shifted of using forced labor to manufacture that hair.
And we have been talking to people, in the hair business, in the U.S., and they say this has been an important wake up call for their industry.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This entire wall is our collection of bread hair, and crochet hair.
WATSON: The neighborhood beauty supply store, a fixture of nearly every African American community.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This one? OK.
WATSON: Part of an industry that revolves around the business of hair.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The first thing that people see, a lot of the times, is our hair.
WATSON: It is a business worth billions, selling largely, to African American consumers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The business of hair extensions is booming.
WATSON: Frankesha Watkins, owner of B-polish beauty supply, in Arlington Texas, says her average customer spends more than $100 a month on hair care.
FRANKESHA WATKINS, OWNER OF B-POLISH BEAUTY SUPPLY: Brought up as an African American woman, we are told our hair is our glory.
WATSON: But even the professionals say. They know very little when it comes to the origin of all of this hair.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This one actually does not list where exactly it is from.
WATSON: In fact, the majority of it comes from China. Last year, China sold around a billion dollars' worth of real and synthetic hair to the U.S. This, one of the most intimate parts of a person's body, is also a valuable international commodity that industry insiders refer to as black gold. And this is a sample that I ordered online. It was advertised as
untreated, Xinjiang human hair. Sourced from a part of China, that is steeped in allegations of human rights abuses.
In July, U.S. Customs and Border Protection, delivered a shock to the industry, the seizure of a shipment of around 13 tons of human hair, worth more than $800,000.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We had a reasonable suspicion that the goods made in the shipment were produced using forced labor in China.
WATSON: The hair comes from this industrial park in China's northwest Xinjiang region. A Chinese state TV report, identifies these factories as part of a government back, poverty alleviation program. The government has offered tax incentives and cheap labor to investors in the hair factories. In what it says, is an effort to employ thousands of people, like this man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): My goal is to make one more wig, every day.
WATSON: Similar government videos had been made about other factories in Xinjiang, like this apparel factory. But CNN spoke with a woman, who worked at the apparel factory, who says the reality was very different from images shown on Chinese state TV.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): None of us worked there on our own free will.
WATSON: Gulzira Auelkhan is an ethnic Kazakhs, originally from Xinjiang, who emigrated to neighboring Kazakhstan. On a return trip to Xinjiang to visit her father in 2017, she says Chinese authorities detained her at the border.
GULZIRA AUELKHAN, FORMER XINJIANG DETAINEE (through translator): They told me, I came from a terrorist country. They cut my hair, took my blood samples.
WATSON: Auelkhan's says she was kept in an internment camp, in a cell, with 20 to 30 people, sharing a bucket for a toilet. Human rights groups, and the U.S. government accused China of a massive detention campaign, rounding up more than 1 million ethnic Uyghur Muslims and members of other ethnic minorities into internment camps.
Beijing calls the camps, vocational training centers, aimed at eradicating violent extremism. But CNN has heard firsthand testimony from survivors of these internment camps, who say they were arbitrarily detained in horrific conditions for months. Enduring torture and other indignities, like having their hair chopped off.
CNN's investigation has not been able to confirm what happens to this shorn hair. But Auelkhan's firsthand account supports the U.S. Government accusation, some Chinese exports from Xinjiang are being made with forced labor.
[03:50:00] After surviving 15 months in the camps, unable to return to her
husband and child in Kazakhstan, she was ordered to work in a factory, sewing gloves that were exported to the U.S. and Europe.
AUELKHAN (through translator): They told me, if I refused, I would be sent back to the camp.
Auelkhan says this image from another Chinese state media report, shows her at a sewing machine. While a VIP delegation toured the factory. Her description matches that of this man, (inaudible) another ethnic Kazakh, who says he spent nine months in internment camps before being force to work in the same factory alongside Auelkhan for two months.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We could not do anything without permission.
WATSON: Speaking from safety in Kazakhstan after their release, the two former detainees have a warning for western consumers.
AUELKHAN (through translator): I am against these Chinese products, they are made through slavery. So many people were crying while making these products.
WATSON: To try to end this alleged modern day slavery, the U.S. government is now banning imports of some products made with suspected forced labor in Xinjiang. Though, U.S. officials have not provided evidence, citing an ongoing criminal investigation.
U.S. officials did, however, highlight this industrial park. Which made the 13 tons of hair product that U.S. Customs seized over the summer, alleging the park uses workers from nearby internment camps. CNN is determined there are at least for suspected camps, all walking distance from the factories.
The hair companies didn't responding to CNN's request for comment. These Chinese government photos, showed detainees in one of the camps, in 2017. Over the last three years, the camps and the industrial park, grew rapidly. During that same period, hair exports also surged from the companies in the industrial park to the U.S.
One of the biggest buyers of synthetic hair was I and I hair, headquartered in Dallas. I and I hair says it cut off ties with suppliers in Xinjiang, in January.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do not think a lot of us even spent time looking into these issues of internment camps, and you know, these other things. And so we were completely oblivious to it. And so -- and I believe that a lot of other people in this industry are as well.
WATSON: That is something the U.S. government wants to change.
BRENDA SMITH, U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION: Our strong message is to those U.S. importers. They need to know their supply chain and stop producing goods made with forced labor. WATSON: The Chinese government, denouncing what it calls, U.S.
bullying.
WANG WENBIN, CHINA FOREIGN MINISTER SPOKESMAN (through translator): Under the pretext of so-called forced labor, the U.S. has taken restrictive measures against relevant Chinese companies, which violates international trade rules.
WATSON: Those denials haven't convinced Tiffany Gill, author of the book, beauty shop politics.
TIFFANY GILL, AUTHOR OF THE BOOK, BEAUTY SHOP POLITICS: I find it particularly sad that a product that is consumed in such large quantities by African American women is produced under exploited of forced labor conditions particularly, when we think about the history of African Americans.
WATSON: Stylist (inaudible), who crafts, what she calls, women's crowns, says it is time her industry wakes up to what is going on, half a world away.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There should be a wakeup call in more education as, well as far as where the hair comes from. Definitely, you don't want to come from slave labor or anything like that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WATSON: Now, Robyn, a couple things to consider here. To report independently in Xinjiang is incredibly difficult. CNN's Matt Rivers traveled there last year, and trying to travel across the region, and was hounded by plain clothes and uniformed Chinese security forces who did things like showed up to his hotel room after midnight to check his documents and was blocked every step of the way when he was trying to report there.
Now, if it comes to consumers and companies that are trying to source materials, it is very difficult to ensure that your supply chain is not polluted by allegations of forced labor. It goes beyond, simply, saying OK, I'm not going to order anything that is made in Xinjiang because, we are hearing from a lot of industry insiders, that goods can simply be shipped to another part of China, from Xinjiang, and then re-packaged and sent overseas.
Also, we are hearing from organizations like the Australian thing- thank the Australian strategic policy institute, that there is -- the movement, the shipping, of ethnic Uyghur workers to other parts of China to work in other factories in questionable circumstances.
That organization, estimates up to 80,000 people have been moved this way, which could be another way to circumvent things like Customs and Border Protections, withhold release orders on hair products from Xinjiang. And the U.S. government is warning about other areas that also could be contaminated by forced labor allegations. They include apparel, cotton, and computer parts. Robyn?
[03:55:24] CURNOW: It's a fantastic report. Very illuminating, Ivan Watson,
thank you so much, I appreciate it.
So, hundreds of protesters in Indonesia's capital have been arrested after clashes with police. We know at least 60 demonstrators and six police officers were injured on Thursday, a third day of a nationwide strike over new employment laws which were passed on Monday. Critics say, the laws scraps labor rights and environmental protections. But the government says, it will create new jobs, and attract foreign investment.
Well, CNN will be back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CURNOW: If you believe the internet the true star Wednesday night U.S. Vice Presidential Debate wasn't either of the candidates, it wasn't even a human, it was the fly in the room. As Jeanne Moos now explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Whatever you say about the V.P. debate, you can't say what fly? The fly that landed --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a great insult.
MOOS: -- on Mike Pence's head, was on everybody's lips.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh my god, look at his hair.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The real winner from last night, is the fly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mike Pence's fly, just became the most popular Halloween costume of 2020.
MOOS: There were jokes about how the fly has been diagnosed with COVID, and it embodied Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Tell Pence, I want him to know the fly, it was me. The Biden campaign sold 35,000 fly slaughter with the words, truth over flies, a ripped on their slogan, truth over lies. That fly --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- stand with you.
MOOS: -- raised $350,000 before the swatters sold out. Mr. Fly, you get two minutes, uninterrupted. And that is almost exactly how long it stayed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Record investments in education --
MOOS: And even withstood repeated nodding. All of that nodding is great for the Pence fly bubblehead now being rushed into production. There is plenty of stuff on at sea for instance, say, a pretty fly for a white guy shirt. Even Republican Rand Paul, joke, the deep state planted a bug on the V.P. It was depicted as a fly dancer. It got the remixed treatment. And, of
course, it created its own parity Twitter account. If you could land on one person's head for 5 minutes, who would it be? This cat --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my God. There's a fly on his head.
MOOS: Seem justice captivated as the rest of us. The fly finally departed, joining the ranks of other hero flies that landed on Joe Biden, and Hillary Clinton, and Barack Obama, the owner of the Bates Motel.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I won't even going to swat that fly.
MOOS: Was echoed and what the daily show called, the debates motel.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I won't even going to swat that fly. Why, he wouldn't even harm a fly.
MOOS: The 2020 race is sure been kind a psycho. Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CURNOW: Thanks so much for joining me. I really appreciate you being here. I'm Robyn Curnow, CNN Newsroom continues with my colleague Kim. That's up next.
