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36 States Seeing Cases Surge, Hospitalizations Rising Across U.S.; Trump, Biden to Participate in Competing Town Halls Tomorrow Night; Trump's Supreme Court Pick Faces Second Round of Questions. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired October 14, 2020 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN NEWSROOM: Poppy Harlow.

The breaking news this hour, the president's Supreme Court pick, Amy Coney Barrett, is facing another round of questions on Capitol Hill today. It is day three of Senate of confirmation hearings. We'll bring you any major developments as they happen.

Also this morning, as coronavirus cases and hospitalizations are spiking across the country, the CDC says that small family gatherings are contributing to the spread. This also comes as Dr. Anthony Fauci warns current positivity rates signal a major surge coming soon.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: Yes, that canary in the coal mine there. We're seeing that already happening in Wisconsin. Its governor is now pleading with residents to help flatten the curve as hospitals are becoming overwhelmed. These pictures here, the state opening a field hospital on the state fairgrounds to handle some of that overflow, expected overflow from hospitals. And that's where we begin.

CNN's Adrienne Broaddus is in Wisconsin for more in this situation there. Concerning numbers there and preparations really for a dire situation, Adrienne.

ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Concerning numbers indeed, and that hospital was scheduled to open in the last hour. It's called the alternative care facility. It's housed here just outside of Milwaukee at the State Fair Park. It has capacity to treat or hold more than 500 patients.

And here is the deal, it's not your traditional hospital. You can't just walk up if you have COVID-like symptoms, meaning you have to be referred by a health care provider.

Meanwhile, Wisconsin reached record highs for both new infections and deaths yesterday. More than 3,000 new cases were confirmed and 34 people died in 24 hours.

What's happening now is what Governor Tony Evers did not want to become a reality. But he and state health officials started planning for this at the start of the pandemic. This new facility, construction started on back in April. But now, Wisconsin is on a streak it wants to end.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. TONY EVERS (D-WI): We have to get this virus under control and help flatten the curve to prevent our health care system from being overwhelmed.

As I said last week, over the last month, our hospitalizations have nearly tripled.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROADDUS: Meanwhile Governor Evers said he hopes what's happening in his state will be a wake-up call. Despite that want, President Trump is planning to rally in Janesville, Wisconsin, this weekend. On a call yesterday, Governor Evers told reporters he had no idea the president was planning to visit his state. And I'm paraphrasing here, Governor Evers also told us gatherings outside, even if they're large or small, are banned. Poppy?

SCIUTTO: They're saying even small family gatherings can be spreader events. Adrienne Broaddus, thanks so very much.

Well, Dr. Fauci is expressing optimism about the race for a coronavirus vaccine, this despite Johnson & Johnson becoming the second pharmaceutical company in the U.S. to put its own late stage vaccine trial on hold for now.

HARLOW: Let's go to our Senior Medical Correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen. She joins us again this hour.

How long is this J&J pause expected?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, we just don't know. There are so many mysteries here. We don't exactly what kind of illness that participant developed. I think that we can assume that it was an illness that they thought might -- and I need to emphasize word, might -- might be connected to the vaccine, and that's why they decided. And J&J decided this on their own. They weren't told to do this to pause their trial to sort of look into what's going on.

At this point, they don't even know if the person got the vaccine or got the placebo. Because you can get either one but you don't know which one you're getting. And it has to be unblinded to find out which one this person got.

So let's take a look at the J&J timeline. So back in January, J&J started working in partnership with BARDA, which is a government agency on developing in vaccine. In March, they signed a deal with the U.S. government to produce 1 billion doses. In July, they started their phase one, phase two human trials, those are much smaller trials. September 23rd, they started the phase three, which is tens of thousands of people. And then on October 12th, as we just discussed, that trial was paused while they look into the illness that was unexplained. This unexplained illness, is it connected to the vaccine or is it not? Poppy, Jim? SCIUTTO: So vaccine is one thing under trials now but, of course, another is treatments. And Eli Lilly, it's pausing its trial of a combination antibody treatment similar to the one the president was given. Explain exactly how this treatment works and what the reason is for this pause.

COHEN: Right. So this treatment is very promising. It's in the same family as Regeneron. And that's the drug that was given to President Trump. So this was a family of antibody treatments.

[07:05:00]

Basically, what they do, to put it simply, is in the lab, they make these antibodies and then they give them intravenously to patients and they're supposed to kind of take the place of whatever antibodies are not working in the sick patient. So you're basically giving patients antibodies to fight off the virus. And the trial so far have been quite promising.

So let's take a look at this Eli Lilly timeline and where their trial has been and where it's going. So, on June 1st, they started their phase one trial for this drug. Again, those are the smaller trials. June 17th, phase two, August 3rd, phase three, and October 13th, the trial was paused. So you can see it didn't go on for very long.

Interestingly, Eli Lilly has already -- before they paused, they asked the FDA for permission to get an emergency use authorization, which would allow them to put this drug on the market. We don't know what effect this pause might have on that application.

HARLOW: Elizabeth, thanks for the updates on all of them very much.

Let's talk more about what we've learned this morning with former FDA Commissioner Dr. Mark McClellan. Good morning, Commissioner. Good to have you.

DR. MARK MCCLELLAN, FORMER COMMISSIONER, FDA: Good morning.

HARLOW: So, when you look at the map, and I don't know if we can pull it back up here for folks, but as we wait for a vaccine, there is now not a single state in the United States that's green on our map, right, which means that there's a decline in cases. What is this? Is this a second wave? And, I guess, more importantly, why is it happening now?

MCCLELLAN: Well, Poppy, I don't think we ever really finished the first wave, so what you're seeing now is a resurgence in cases across many parts of the country, especially in the upper Midwest, places like Wisconsin, the mountain west that are seeing the highest level of cases they have ever had during the pandemic. They were relatively spared earlier on and more spread now. We're also seeing worrisome early trends in other parts of the country, including upwards trends in parts of Texas, other parts of the south, in the east.

And this is something that we've expected could happen for a while. We're headed into winter. People are in closer quarters. Schools and universities are back. And maybe even people are just getting a little bit tired of having to deal with the pandemic. The trends are very worrisome with the strong increasing cases and that's being now followed by increases in hospitalizations.

So, now is really an important time while we still have those treatments coming along but they're not quite here yet, it's a really important time to remember just how important it is to wear masks and distance and do the other things that really do make a difference in containing the spread.

SCIUTTO: Mark, what's interesting about this map, right, is you have a whole variety of states with a whole variety of approaches to the pandemic that are seeing cases go up. Granted at different rates among them, I don't want to put on the same bin, but you know what I'm saying. I mean, what have we learned in the last several months as to what is necessary now, right? I mean, is it serious enough that these states have to consider going back to full-on lockdowns? Is it simple habits like mask-wearing and closing bars but leaving open restaurants? What is the approach that folks can do now to make a difference?

MCCLELLAN: Well, I think we'd all like to avoid going back towards lockdowns, Jim, especially trying to get kids back to school and other very important priorities for the economy. We do know masks work. And in states that have more mask-wearing, I think there's generally association with lower rates of outbreak.

And it's not just masks, it's just things that we do every day. Yes, what happens in bars matters and what happens in restaurants matters. And if states take enforcement actions to keep distance, expectations in place in those settings, that helps. But it also matters what people do in their own gatherings and what they do on their own time outside of businesses, and that's also contributing to the spread. It really does take some continued changes in the way that we're acting to slow down the spread.

And I understand that's hard for people to do but I think the good news is, as you were just saying, we have some treatments and even vaccines that are maybe just a matter of a few months away from use. So we can get through this next phase, which is on track to perhaps being the worst wave or phase that we've seen, if we can slow that down, it's not going to be that long before we start getting some real relief from the treatments.

HARLOW: But as I understand it that our kids are not going to be vaccinated when we are all vaccinated because Pfizer is the first one to just start their trial of the vaccine on children, I believe it's around 12 years old. So how long until our kids are vaccinated?

MCCLELLAN: Poppy, well, it makes sense. Kids have been fortunately at lower risk from COVID complications. So it makes sense that we'd use the vaccine first, tested out first and adults and those people who are at higher risk. We will learn a lot from that about the safety and effectiveness of the vaccine. We are seeing that play out in real-time right now, as you were just talking about. That still means we're going to need studies in children but they are not the highest priority for vaccination.

[10:10:02]

So I think what people should expect is, as we learn more about the safety and effectiveness of vaccines, as they really get past those FDA standards, which are strong and there for a reason, you will see people in higher-risk groups get vaccinated first and then maybe a staged approach. I think vaccination on a large-scale basis in kids is still a number of months away at the earliest.

SCIUTTO: There have been concerns throughout about political pressure on institutions like the FDA to speed things up, right? And that's contributed to some skepticism out there about a vaccine. I'm curious, from your perspective and given your services at the FDA, should folks feel confident? Are you seeing the science winning out here in effect on things like vaccine approval?

MCCLELLAN: I am so far, Jim. And I am also very concerned about the decline in confidence and vaccines at least the way FDA regulates them. Because if you look at what's actually happening despite all of the political smoke, the right processes are taking place. People are monitoring the trial very closely, independent experts. And if there is even a question about just one case, like you mentioned in the Johnson & Johnson situation, it's being looked at carefully by independent experts.

FDA has made clear that they're going to have a public meeting and discussion, if there is a proposal for emergency use of a vaccine with oversight by its group of nationally recognized, globally recognized independent experts.

So all of that is still very much on track and that's why we're not probably going to see a vaccine authorization, even in the highest risk groups, until later on this year in November, December. But I have a lot of confidence in the process that's taking place right now.

SCIUTTO: That's good to hear and it's important for folks watching to hear that too. Have confidence in how this is playing out. Dr. Mark McClellan, much appreciated.

MCCLELLAN: Good to be with you.

SCIUTTO: Well, President Trump is on an all-out blitz as he heads back on the road again today and will participate now in a televised town hall tomorrow. What does this push say about the state of his campaign?

HARLOW: Also, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is defending her decision to turn down the White House's most recent stimulus proposal. Some members of her own party though are saying make a deal. One of them will join us.

And early in-person voting in some states has been marred by massive lines and long wait times. Ahead, what does it mean for your vote, your election?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:15:00]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

Today, President Trump is heading to Iowa for another large rally as that state sees a huge jump in coronavirus infections. Tomorrow, the president and Joe Biden will make their pitch to voters at separate town halls, though at the same time, both of those in key battleground states.

joining me now to talk about this, all of this, Jonathan Swan, National Political Reporter for Axios. Jonathan, good to have you on this morning.

JONATHAN SWAN, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, AXIOS: Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: So, you report that the president is pushing to be on the trail literally every day, we've got 20 days to go, up to the election. One adviser telling you he's going to kill himself. What is driving the president's stretch run here?

SWAN: Desperation is driving it, desperation. They know that they're probably -- it's probably too late in the game and Trump even sort of acknowledged that when he -- you know, when he does these segments where he basically reads out his internal poll, suburban women, please love me, seniors, please, seniors, he realizes there are sort of limits to his persuasion. Even Donald Trump realizes that.

So these rallies have one goal, which is they are trying to energize and turn out hundreds of thousands of white, non-college educated people who did not vote in 2016 but who exist on this planet in the upper Midwest, many of them in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Minnesota. And hope -- they're hoping to God that lots of these Democrat ballots fail, that the people fill out their ballots in an incorrect way. And there's a lot of spoilage and that somehow this Democratic turnout machine fails in some key states.

And these rallies, which we're going to see pipe up more and more and more. I was talking to a Trump aide yesterday who said he's asking for more rallies than they booked for him. He wants to do three or four events a day. You're just going to see this amp up as we get closer to Election Day.

SCIUTTO: It's essentially -- as you say, it's a paced strategy. I suppose you could say that's been his administration, right, is rallying the base here. I just wonder because -- and I want to throw up this tweet that the president shared yesterday taking aim at Joe Biden, because you mentioned seniors. Biden for resident, in effect, saying Joe Biden should be put in a home here. Not a ideal message, you might imagine, for retirees to be described in that way.

I just wonder, is there anyone on his team encouraging him to moderate his message, right, in other words, to reach beyond that base given -- trailing, for instance, among seniors this cycle? SWAN: Well, the real remarkable thing about that tweet is it looks like one of his staff did it. It looks like, you know, when Trump tweets out memes, it's usually Dan Scavino, who is the deputy White House chief of staff communications. So I don't know with this particular tweet.

But you have a situation where not only are very few people restraining him.

[10:20:00]

but some people are actively encouraging him in some of these instances, which I don't think there's a single political strategist out there, pollster, who would say that the way to win Florida seniors is to continually describe Joe Biden as this slobbering, useless, senile wreck who belongs in a nursing home. I don't know that anyone who says that's the path to winning over senior voters.

SCIUTTO: Understood. And I want to ask you before we go just about the Senate. You do hear some Republicans internally, privately, so concerned about the president's standing that they're focusing resources, money, donor money focusing on Senate races. What is their level of concern about losing Republican control of the Senate?

SWAN: It's extremely high. I was talking to -- I've talked to a number of people who are looking at the polls, the private polls for Republican, just not the media polls. It's looking very, very bad right now. And the problem for a lot of these senators is while they would like to distance themselves from Trump occasionally, they can't afford to because they need every single Trump voter.

So if you look at someone like Thom Tillis in North Carolina, he can't afford to cut ties with Trump. He has to, to some extent, stick with Trump because he needs every Trump vote in North Carolina. They're in a really tough position.

SCIUTTO: There's an interesting description of how they end up in that position, right, sort of damned if you do, damned if you don't. Because, of course, they would need to appeal to some moderates as well, you would imagine.

Jonathan Swan, always good to have you on. We hope you have a good week (ph).

SWAN: Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

HARLOW: Well, Supreme Court Nominee Judge Amy Coney Barrett is facing another round of questioning today. What are Democrats zeroing in on this morning? We'll discuss that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:25:00]

HARLOW: Right now, you're looking at live pictures there. Senators are questioning Judge Amy Coney Barrett. This is day three of her Supreme Court confirmation hearing.

SCIUTTO: CNN Supreme Court Analyst Joan Biskupic is here now.

Joan, a big focus yesterday, Democrats, was zeroing in on the Affordable Care Act, Obamacare, how she might rule. Same focus today for Democrats or will they go somewhere else?

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Good morning, Jim. They've started out that way but they're expanding to other very relevant issues for today. They think that Obamacare is a good issue for them because of, you know, its coverage of more than 20 million Americans and the risks that some people would face if the Trump administration wins at the Supreme Court in its case to strike it down.

But they're smartly, I think, broadening into voting rights issues, just how things might go in this election cycle, bringing up the long lines at polls, bringing up Supreme Court precedent that actually curtails the right to vote and trying to pin her down on those issues too, Jim.

HARLOW: So, Senator Leahy just asked Judge Barrett this, quote, does a president have an absolute right to pardon himself for a crime? Still very relevant to -- maybe to the current election. And I ask you this because your piece this morning about day one of questioning, the headline, Joan, is The Art of the Dodge.

BISKUPIC: Yes. Well, she definitely dodged that question and she's dodges anything that has to do with President Trump and some of his bolder stances that he can pardon himself or that he might not leave office. And what she has said is that she would have to look at the precedence, that could be a case that comes before the court. She sidestepped it that way.

But, Poppy, to your question about my piece, you know, the Supreme Court confirmation hearings are all about bobbing and weaving. I will say that most Supreme Court candidates try to avoid saying anything that would compromise their judicial independence or cost them votes.

But they have, in the past, tried to give senators some things to at least ask follow-up questions about, give more of a window into their interior thinking about legal principles. And she has offered very minimal answers and shut down a lot of the questioning, which, frankly, seems to be effective because she's is not getting that many complaints or confrontations.

SCIUTTO: Well, it raises the question, Joan, doesn't it, what function do these hearings perform, right? I mean, even on a simple question, can the president delay the election, which I talked to a lot of lawyers after her non-answer on that, it's not exactly a big question as a matter of law. What's the point?

BISKUPIC: Well, I think that's a good question, Jim. It does lets us see nominee, at least gives us a sense of her character, her temperament under better circumstances. We could at least pick up more on her legal principles that we could then compare to how she votes down the line. It is supposed to be a forum for constitutional debate rather than an empty exercise.

[10:30:00]

And, you know some of us will take whatever we can get but with a great deal of frustration, as you say, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes.