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COVID-19 Cases Rising in the U.S.; Hoover Institution May Have Received Private COVID-19 Warnings from White House in February; Donald Trump and Joe Biden Set to Hold Town Halls Tonight. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired October 15, 2020 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: That is an average of 1,000 American lives lost each day.

And with more than 51,000 new cases being recorded daily nationwide and 35 states reporting an uptick in infections, there is no plan to stop this in place from this administration. Instead, President Trump is holding huge super-spreader events, while pushing the widely disputed theory of herd immunity, which would require at least 60 percent of Americans to contract the coronavirus. And currently, only an estimated 10 percent of Americans have antibodies.

It's a strategy that leading public health organizations and experts are condemning, including Dr. Anthony Fauci.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: There will be so many people in the community that you can't shelter, that you can't protect who are going to get sick and get serious consequences. So this idea that we have the power to protect the vulnerable is total nonsense.

You'll wind up with many more infections of vulnerable people, which will lead to hospitalizations and deaths. So I think that we've just got to look that square in the eye and say it's nonsense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Now, we're also learning that vice presidential nominee Senator Kamala Harris has cancelled her campaign travel through the weekend after one of her staff members tested positive for coronavirus. Harris tweeted that she has gotten two negative results this week and continues to not exhibit any symptoms.

And with the fall wave of this pandemic upon us, I want to bring in Dr. Adrian Burrowes. He is a family medicine physician in Florida. Dr. Burrowes, it is great to see you. And earlier this year, we were seeing hospitals -- particularly in your state -- facing maximum capacity as outbreaks were coming through. Are they now at more risk heading into the winter than they were at the onset of this pandemic? Or do you think that things will be better?

ADRIAN BURROWES, FAMILY MEDICINE PHYSICIAN: No. Thank you, Brianna, for having me on. So I believe that we are in worse shape, going forward, than we were back then, primarily because, you know, we're bracing ourselves for this second wave of coronavirus in this country. And if anyone's paying attention, you're seeing what's happening now in Europe.

So we're going to have to deal with a second wave of coronavirus on top of our normal flu season. And you know, every time we hit these cold-weather months, people become more susceptible to these viral illnesses. And so I have a lot of concern regarding that.

KEILAR: OK, so you're looking toward this colder weather with concern. And Florida has reported more than 3,300 new cases today, they more than doubled yesterday's death toll, 144 people died in just one day there. In the meantime, your governor, Ron DeSantis, is allowing football stadiums to operate at full capacity. What risk is the governor posing here to Florida residents with these proposals?

BURROWES: So unfortunately in Florida, our governor has gotten it wrong repeatedly regarding coronavirus. Any -- when we had our shutdown, when we were doing things, you know, really trying to take the lives of our residents into account, we were cutting down on the cases and moving forward in a good fashion.

All of a sudden now, he's released -- opened up all of these things. And now, asking for 90,000 people in stadiums to be side-by-side. How do you social distance that way? And I think that's completely asinine, first of all.

Second of all, the governor continues to treat the lives of Floridians like they're disposable. And I think that that's been not only in the state of Florida but nationwide, the problem with how we've dealt with coronavirus.

KEILAR: I want to know what you think about the vaccine timeline as it's shaping up. I think a lot of people are very hopeful that there will be one soon, that they'll be able to get it very soon. Dr. Fauci signaled that a vaccine may be widely available by April of next year, but the World Health Organization announced today that when it comes to healthy young people, they shouldn't expect a vaccine for themselves until 2022.

TEXT: WHO Warns of 2022 Vaccine Timeline: "There will be a lot of guidance coming out, but I think an average person, a healthy young person might have to wait until 2022 to get a vaccine." Soumya Swaminathan, chief scientist, World Health Organization

KEILAR: So are both of these timelines true? Is this just about staggering priorities? Make sense of this for us.

BURROWES: Yes. So I know a lot of people have a lot of anxiety regarding this, and so I do think that that timeline, when we're talking about probably the middle -- you know, early to middle part of 2021 is likely when the vaccine will start to roll out, but that's when it's going to be given to health care providers, high-risk populations like the elderly, people with significant diseases like kidney disease, heart disease, diabetes, cancer, that type of thing.

And so healthy young people tend to fall a little bit lower down on that risk -- when we're doing risk stratification because they typically tend to do fairly well with the virus. So at the beginning, those high-risk groups will have the priority medically and so it could very well be that you know, young healthy people may not be vaccinated until the following year.

KEILAR: All right. I know that will be tough for some people to hear. Dr. Burrowes, thank you so much.

BURROWES: Thank you so much.

[14:05:00]

KEILAR: Now to a remarkable new report from "The New York Times." As the White House was minimizing the coronavirus to the American people, officials were delivering stark warnings in private to conservative donors and investors.

Let's go back now to late February, and this tweet from the president where he declared, "The coronavirus is very much under control in the USA... Stock market starting to look very good to me!"

That was on February 24th. It was the same day that some of his economic advisors privately addressed a group from the conservative Hoover Institution, and he said that it was too early to estimate the pandemic's impact -- that's according to a memo written about the meeting by one of its attendees and obtained by the "Times."

The next day, Larry Kudlow, head of the president's National Economic Council, went on CNBC and told the nation this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY KUDLOW, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: We have contained this, we have contained this. I won't say airtight, but pretty close to airtight.

What we know now, as of today, this is very tightly contained in the U.S.

The human tragedy side? Difficult, horrible. The economic side? There is no tragedy in the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Once he was behind closed doors though, Kudlow had something quite different to say. The memo obtained by the "Times" shows Kudlow told the Hoover board members that COVID-19 was, quote, "contained in the U.S. to date but now we just don't know."

And if you're thinking this all sounds familiar, you're right. Because as we know from audio recorded by veteran journalist Bob Woodward, the president's staff were following their boss' lead. Here's what he told Woodward just a few weeks later.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (via telephone): I wanted to always play it down. I still like playing it down, because I don't want to create a panic.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KEILAR: With me now is Mark Mazzetti, Washington investigative correspondent for "The New York Times" and one of the reporters behind this piece. He's also a CNN national security analyst.

Mark, it's good to see you. And the bottom line here is that elite investors seem to have gotten a heads up about how bad things could get, which is certainly moneymaking information. Tell us how they could act on that.

MARK MAZZETTI, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, recall that this period of time is when there's great uncertainty about the coronavirus in the United States: the economic impact, the health impact. Any kind of hard information about COVID at that time was critical from a health perspective and, as markets were teetering, for investors.

And as you laid out, during this period of time, this couple days, this group of the Board of Overseers of the Hoover Institution had these meetings with economic advisors to the White House as well as other people.

After those meetings, one of the members of the Board of Overseers sent a memo to a large hedge fund named Appaloosa Management, run by David Tepper, who was already cautious by that point about coronavirus. He was nervous about where it might go.

But this kind of stark memo then circulates around the financial world, and from Tepper's hedge fund to others. And according to the people we interviewed, some people used it to inform their trading. In other words, made money off it. So it's kind of a glimpse into how this privileged information can quickly be used to gain financial advantage.

KEILAR: And this morning, the Treasury secretary, Steve Mnuchin, responded to the report in this way.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

STEVEN MNUCHIN, SECRETARY OF TREASURY (via telephone): I saw the headline this morning, this is the first I've seen of it. It wouldn't be the first time I've seen a headline out of "The New York Times" that exaggerates things or puts them in a wrong perspective. I've had my own personal attacks from "The New York Times" doing this to me. I -- you know, I can't imagine this occurred.

By the way, there were plenty of investors who had their own views of what was going on at the time and were very concerned, rightfully so.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KEILAR: He's saying it's an exaggeration, the reporting. What's your response to that?

MAZZETTI: Well, I'm not sure he said he's actually read it not. He said that --

KEILAR: That's a good point.

MAZZETTI: -- he didn't agree with (INAUDIBLE). But he says he doesn't think -- you know, it's probably not true. But I didn't see -- from what I saw, challenging any of the actual substance of the article.

You know, it's -- he is right that a lot of people did have a great number of views about the markets during this period of time. But as we reported, there were several very savvy investors who do study this information, who saw this memo and thought it was quite significant because it seemed to be inside government information that was being conveyed to this group that really gave a sense of kind of the looming disaster.

Now, the memo indeed turned out to be quite prescient even, as we say in the story, some of it was hyperbolic. But it -- you cannot argue the fact that there was this impact that people, you know, used this information to short sell in the market.

KEILAR: Mark, great reporting. Thank you so much for joining us, Mark Mazzetti, we appreciate it, with "The New York Times."

MAZZETTI: Thank you.

KEILAR: Voters were supposed to see President Trump and Joe Biden debate for a second time tonight. Well instead, the two candidates will compete for voters' attention in dueling town halls on two different TV networks at the exact same time.

Right now, President Trump is holding a rally in North Carolina, which is a state where coronavirus cases are on the rise. CNN's Ryan Nobles is at that rally for us. And Ryan, are we getting a preview of what the president will say tonight at the town hall, do you think?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It certainly seems that way, Brianna. Of course, North Carolina, an enormously important state for President Trump in this election. He won here in 2016 by only four points, there's a new poll out this morning from "The New York Times" that shows the Trump campaign trailing by four points.

And to your point about what he's going to talk about tonight at the town hall, you have to imagine the coronavirus is going to come up, his own coronavirus infection and his response to it. But also his relationship with Dr. Anthony Fauci.

And President Trump actually just talked about Dr. Fauci a few minutes ago here in Greenville, North Carolina. Listen to what he had to say. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: -- my friend, and he's a nice guy, Tony, Tony Fauci. He's a nice guy. He said this is not a threat, this is not a problem, don't worry about this, (INAUDIBLE) a problem, the craziest thing.

Then he said, do not wear a mask, do not wear a mask under any circumstances, don't wear a mask, don't, don't, don't, right? So we don't wear a mask.

Then they say, oh, wear a mask. I never saw it. Did you ever see any conflicts? But he's a nice guy so I keep him around, right? We'll keep him around. He's a Democrat, everybody knows that. He's Cuomo's friend.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: So a couple of interesting things to point out in those remarks from the president, Brianna. First of all, again, he is mocking people who wear masks, and then also criticizing the guidance and advice that Dr. Fauci has given.

And yes, in the beginning, Dr. Fauci did talk about whether or not masks were appropriate to wear in March. But since then, has been very consistent that it's one of the best ways to curb the spread of the virus.

And then also, he suggested that he's going to keep Fauci around as if there's been some sort of a discussion of removing him from his post. And then finally, he calls Fauci a Democrat. And it's important to point out, Brianna, that Dr. Fauci has worked for both Republicans and Democrats. He describes himself as apolitical.

And furthermore, as the president attacks him here in North Carolina, he's also concurrently running a campaign ad that features Dr. Fauci touting his response to the coronavirus -- an ad, I should also point out, that Dr. Fauci says his takes his words out of context.

So a peculiar attack for the very least, Brianna, and it's interesting that at this stage of the game he would even bring Fauci into the conversation -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes. Peculiar indeed. He should bring him into the conversation as having the Task Force be a bigger part of what's going on with the coronavirus response, but it isn't. Ryan Nobles, live for us on the trail in North Carolina, thank you.

NBC is currently facing a good bit of criticism for scheduling a town hall at the exact same time as Biden's previously scheduled event. With me now is CNN chief media correspondent and the host of "RELIABLE SOURCES," Brian Stelter.

And, Brian, you have some new reporting on the conversations that took place between NBC, which is playing host to the president's town hall, and ABC, which will host Biden's, which was previously scheduled, as this was all being worked out. Tell us about this. BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. ABC

previously had a town hall with Trump, NBC had one with Biden. So now they're doing the opposite, now it's Opposite Day, they're having the other candidates both tonight.

But ABC's town hall with Biden was scheduled almost a week ago. So ABC went first, NBC finally was able to confirm this Trump town hall. They scheduled it at the exact same time for reasons that still don't make sense to me.

And last night, an executive from NBC called ABC, tried to work it out, tried to get ABC to move the Biden town hall. And ABC basically said no. They said, we assigned this time slot first, we booked this event first, why would we move to try to help out NBC?

So there's some network rivalry stuff going on here, Brianna. And this has been a big misstep for NBC's the news boss, Cesar Conde, who took control of the news assets a few months ago. Here is his statement today defending NBC's decision to go up against Biden and schedule this head-to-head match-up.

Conde saying, "Our decision is motivated only by fairness, not business considerations. We aired a town hall with V.P. Biden on October 5 at 8:00 p.m. If we were to move our town hall with Trump to a later time slot, we would be violating our commitment to over both campaigns access to the same audience and the same forum.

Conde saying, "We hope voters will watch both discussions -- ours will be available at any time, free and on demand." So he's basically saying set your DVR, watch on YouTube. That way you can watch both town halls.

[14:15:10]

But the voters are the losers here, Brianna. There should have been a real debate tonight. And since there is no real debate, it makes no sense to have these events live head-to-head on competing networks.

KEILAR: Brian, thank you so much for that reporting. Brian Stelter of "RELIABLE SOURCES."

Next, long lines again today in places like North Carolina and Texas as eager voters are looking to cast their ballots.

But Joe Biden's campaign manager is warning this race is a lot closer than you might think.

Plus, former President Obama, speaking out on a podcast. Why he says the conspiracy theories that President Trump pushes will be around well beyond Trump's time in office.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:20:09]

KEILAR: Across the country right now, voters are heading to the polls and they're often spending hours in line. More than 14 million Americans have already cast their ballots and the numbers are way up. Moments ago, Colorado's secretary of state said early voting there is 24 times the level that it was at this point in 2016.

Let's check in now with CNN correspondents at some of these polling locations.

DIANNA GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Dianna Gallagher in Charlotte. There are lines like this all over the state of North Carolina for the first day of early voting. Now, some of these people showed up before dawn. They want to make sure that their vote counts.

Early in-person voting has been a very popular form of voting in this battleground state traditionally, but they've also smashed records when it comes to absentee ballots returned. Now, early voting in this state goes through October 31st.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Ed Lavandera in Dallas. Early voting turnout records are being shattered all across this state. Here in Dallas County, about 120,000 people voted on the first two days of early voting. We have never seen numbers that high.

And in Harris County, the largest county in the state, some 240,000 people have already voted in the first two days of early voting. And one election official there says turnout shows no signs of slowing down.

AMARA WALKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Amara Walker in Atlanta. Day four of voting under way in Georgia, and many polling sites -- including this one here in Fulton County -- are seeing improved wait times.

The Georgia secretary of state says the state's elections software vendor has increased the bandwidth of the state's digital database as of Wednesday to address those problems, those slowdowns with the electronic voter check-in systems that has been seen statewide.

As of Wednesday, more than 377,000 Georgians have voted in person early. That's a 46 percent increase from this time in 2016.

KEILAR: These huge turnouts at early voting sites indicate record high enthusiasm this election, but is the enthusiasm for President Trump or is it for former Vice President Joe Biden?

Biden's campaign manager posting this warning to Twitter, quote, "There is still a long way to go in this campaign, and we think this race is far closer than folks on this website think. Like a lot closer."

I want to bring in CNN senior political writer and analyst Harry Enten to talk about this.

I mean, Harry, what do you make of this message? Is this someone saying, look, don't get too comfortable? Or is this someone who just wants to make sure people don't do that even while they might kind of be quietly confident? HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL WRITER AND ANALYST: Look, I can't

get inside of her head ,but I will say is that there's a lot of fear among Democrats that some Democratic voters may see the polls and say, you know, what, oh, we're not going to turn out and vote because Biden sort of gets this thing.

What I will say however is if you look at the national polling -- and there's this USC poll that sort of gets at this point -- which is even though the clear majority of voters right now favor former Vice President Joe Biden, when you ask voters who they think is actually going to win, the race is actually very, very narrow. I think there are a lot of people who remember last time, remember when all the polls said Hillary Clinton was going to win, and right now are saying, you know what, I'm not necessarily sure I believe those numbers.

So I don't necessarily think that it's a founded fear that Democrats should worry that their voters won't turn out because they think the race is actually very, very close.

KEILAR: so the Biden campaign has reported a record $383 million in fundraising in September. This is a huge haul, this smashes the previous record that it set in August. How are they going to spend all of that cash here in, you know, two weeks or so, two weeks-plus?

ENTEN: I mean, there's always ways to find to spend the cash. I think it just tells you how much enthusiasm there is from the Democratic base for the Democratic ticket, or at least defeating President Trump.

But look, they're going to go into states that perhaps they wouldn't have otherwise gone into, they'll go into Texas probably a little bit harder, they'll go into Ohio, states that are sort of on the periphery of the swing states that you might think might be put in play.

But this puts a lot of pressure on President Trump to somehow try and fight this air war, an air war right now that former Vice President Joe Biden, simply put, is winning.

KEILAR: Harry, thank you so much for that.

And next, former President Obama warning that conspiracy theories will remain pervasive in the Republican Party long after President Trump leaves office.

[14:24:23]

Plus, California's GOP refuses to remove unofficial ballot boxes that it placed around the state. So what happens if someone puts their ballot inside of one?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Former President Barack Obama, speaking during a lengthy podcast interview with two former aides on a range of topics. This includes President Trump's endorsement of conspiracy theories.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That is a problem that is going to outlast Trump. Trump is symptom of it and an accelerant to it. But he did not create it.

You know, when you look at insane conspiracy theories like QAnon seeping into the mainstream of the Republican Party, what that tells you is that there are no more guardrails within that media ecosystem. And I think one of the biggest challenges all of us have -- this is not just a progressives versus, you know, right-wing issue, this is really a genuine American society issue.

[14:30:00]