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Pfizer Expects Major Development on Its Vaccine Early Next Month; Trump, Biden Make Case to Voters at Dueling Town Halls; President Trump Debunks Claims of Knowing QAnon; CNN: More Than 17 Million Americans have Already Voted; Biden Promises Answer on Court Packing By Election Day. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired October 16, 2020 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:59]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Morning, everyone. It is Friday and it's been quite a week. We're glad you're with us. I'm Poppy Harlow.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

The breaking news this morning, health news. It matters. Drug giant Pfizer says it expects to apply for what's known as Emergency Use Authorization for its coronavirus vaccine in the U.S. as early as the third week of November. In an open letter, the company's CEO says, "All the data contained in our U.S. application would be reviewed not only by the FDA's own scientists," and this is important, "but also an external panel of independent experts at a publicly held meeting convened by the agency."

This is a potentially major development as virus cases are now surging across this country, hospitalizations rising as well, and doctors warning of a brutal winter.

HARLOW: So those are the facts. And at last night's town hall with the president, you might be wondering, is he listening to those facts? Because while we didn't get a debate between the two candidates, we did get two very different realities of what's happening in the country right now.

The president said, again, it was astounding to me, he said that we're rounding the corner again. But the truth is we are not. The facts do not show that. The vice president, Joe Biden, said he will follow the science, this is at his own town hall, and may have found it hard to follow his answers, though you may have on other really key issues like Supreme Court, and packing the court.

So we're going to get in all those big headlines. First, let's begin, though, with this breaking news. Our senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen has it.

How big of an announcement is this from Pfizer? ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Poppy, this

definitely is big news. But I'm going to temper it a little bit. But before we talk about the details I want to say this is yet another piece of evidence that President Trump was wrong and we are not going to have a vaccine by election day.

Let's look at the actual words that the CEO of Pfizer said. He said, "Assuming positive data," that's just assuming, I'm going to get back to that, that's important. "Assuming positive data, Pfizer will apply for Emergency Authorization Use in the U.S. soon after a safety milestone is achieved in the third week of November." In the third week of November so well after election day.

And here's some of that tempering that I was just mentioning. That phrase, assuming positive data, basically what Pfizer is saying is, look, we anticipate we are going to have some data that we can present to the FDA as early as the third week of November. That data might show that the vaccine doesn't work or it might show, eh, we're not quite sure if it works so we're going to keep plugging away, or it could show that it works.

So let's not assume that that data is going to be good news. We certainly all hope it will be but it very well might not be. Pfizer might very well come back and say, you know, we've got to keep plugging away, this data is unclear -- Poppy.

SCIUTTO: Elizabeth, let me ask you a question here because it's notable that Pfizer is saying publicly we're not just going to take the FDA's seal of approval here, we are going to have an outside panel, in effect, and also make the data public. I mean, we know, we've talked about this on this broadcast with you many times about concerns about political influence here.

What does it say that Pfizer is taking this what seems to be an unusual step?

COHEN: It is unusual step and it's a step that many people have urged. We actually talked about this a month or two ago, you know, the three of us, which is that there were urgings that more independent panels should be looking at this. So you already have the Data Safety Monitoring Board, which is an independent panel. They're so independent we don't even know who's on the panel. They try to keep it a secret.

And there's been a lot of advocacy for we need even more people outside of the FDA to look at this because sadly the FDA has become less and less trusted over time, and so there have been people saying, you know what, look, let's make sure we have as many eyes on this as possible.

SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean, remarkable you need that step but I suppose the focus -- anything we can do, right, to increase peoples' confidence about a vaccine going forward.

COHEN: Right.

SCIUTTO: Elizabeth Cohen, always good to have you walk us through it.

[09:05:02]

Well, President Trump and Joe Biden were both back, they're both back on the campaign trail today after last night's dueling town halls.

HARLOW: Let's get to our Jeremy Diamond. He is in Ocala, Florida, where the president will hold a rally tonight.

Jeremy, good morning to you. The two candidates were on different stages last night, still clashing, particularly on the issue of wearing masks. And I have to say the line of the night for me was Savannah Guthrie saying you can still see people with a mask.

(LAUGHTER)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And the contrast was striking between the two candidates on no issue perhaps more than this issue of coronavirus. And what we heard from President Trump was this continued, you know, attempt to bring other people into his alternate reality in which the coronavirus is disappearing, and of course he also sought to continue to spread misinformation about the issue of masks. Even as he said that he is good with masks, the president misleading. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As far as the mask is concerned, I'm good with masks, I'm OK with masks. I tell people to wear masks. But just the other day they came out with a statement that 85 percent of the people that wear masks catch it so --

SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC NEWS HOST: They didn't say that. I know that study.

TRUMP: You know, this is a very -- that's what I heard and that's what I saw.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: And that is just completely false. Even the CDC has had to since come out on Twitter and say that that is not the conclusions of that study. The study the president was referencing wasn't even looking at the issue of whether masks made it more or less likely to get the virus.

It was instead looking at in-house dining and whether that raised the risk of transmission, which it does according to this study. But the study was not aimed at looking at this issue of masks so the president was just completely misleading on this.

In contrast, what we heard from Joe Biden, he talked about the importance of a president's words specifically on this issue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: The words of a president matter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely.

BIDEN: No matter whether they're good, bad or indifferent, they matter. And when a president doesn't wear a mask or makes fun of folks like me when I was wearing a mask for a long time, then, you know, people say, well, it mustn't be that important.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: And Jim and Poppy, President Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden both back on the campaign trail today. And you will once again see that contrast. Former Vice President Joe Biden having socially distanced events in Michigan, while President Trump is going to be campaigning here, two stops in the state of Florida, and then a rally later tonight in Georgia.

And you can expect the same images that we have seen from the president over the last several weeks, which is several hundred or sometimes thousands of people closely packed together, no social distancing, very few masks, and the president himself continuing to spread misinformation about the virus -- Jim, Poppy.

HARLOW: Thank you for setting the record straight, Jeremy. Appreciate it.

Let's bring in Dr. Richard Besser, former acting director of the CDC and president and CEO of the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

We're glad to have you and I know we're, you know, the morning after two important town halls. But I want to take politics out of this completely, Doctor, and just talk to you about the science, because I'm worried that numerous times yesterday the president has said this 85 percent stat about masks. It is completely untrue.

What does the science tell us?

DR. RICHARD BESSER, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR, CDC: Yes. So, you know, it's an unanswered question what the level of protection is from wearing mask, but it's clear that wearing a mask has a big impact on disease transmission.

You know, if you look at what took place this summer, where we were seeing dramatic increases in disease in Florida, in Texas, in Arizona, from the behavior of young people, in states where mask wearing was barely encouraged. When those states changed and allowed counties to require mask wearing, the number of cases went down dramatically.

The study that's being cited is a study that was looking at what were the risks from indoor activities. And what they found was that in the groups who got sick, when they compared those to people who were similar, except that they had not gotten sick, they found that overall the mask wearing levels were about the same, at about 85 percent, but those who got sick were much more likely to have spent time in places where you couldn't wear a mask, like indoor dining. And so it was basically enforcing was that these are risky settings

specifically because you are less likely to be able to wear a mask and it's a place where viruses may stay in the air.

SCIUTTO: Doctor, thank you for just stating that in such clear terms.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: It's important, to Poppy's point, for people to hear it that way. So to that point, another question of science here. Doctors like you and others we've had on this broadcast for months have said contact tracing is essential to controlling an outbreak. When you have an outbreak you find out who's infected and who else they had contact with.

A remarkable revelation from Chris Christie this morning who, of course, who was infected. He was at that White House super spreader event, prepared the president for the first debate.

[09:10:04]

What he said after he was infected about what the White House did not do. Have a listen. I want to get your reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE, FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR: Well, I know there was no contact tracing done with me, George. My contact tracing was down by my local county board of health. They called me while I was in the hospital to contact trace and make sure they had all that information.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: The man who prepared the president for the debate and who spent seven days in an ICU with a COVID infection. The White House didn't contact trace. Tell us the importance of that.

BESSER: Well, contact tracing is absolutely essential. There are different ways to do it and most contact tracing will be done by local health departments. So if the approach was to identify everyone who was at the event and notify all of those local health departments so they could do thorough contact tracing, that could be an effective mechanism.

But one of the things we're finding across the country is that many people are resistant to identify who their contracts are. And part of that is because if you tell who your contacts are, some of those people will not be allowed to go to work for two weeks. And many people in America that means losing their job, not putting food on the table, not paying the rent.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BESSER: And, you know, with Congress not coming together to provide those benefits, there's a real reluctance for people to participate.

HARLOW: On the topic of a vaccine, I thought this exchange last night with Vice President Biden was really interesting. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: We should be talking about, depending on the continuation of the spread of the virus, we should be thinking about making it mandatory.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS HOST: How could you enforce that?

BIDEN: Well, you couldn't. That's the problem. Just like you can't enforce measles -- you can't come to school unless you have a measles shot. You know, you can't --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: So he's saying you can't enforce it, which you can't legally, but Pew shows that, you know, in May 72 percent of folks said they'd take a vaccine, now only 51 percent of folks say they will. So what are we going to do? It's not mandated and only half the folks trust it.

BESSER: Yes, you know, this is a real challenge. The U.S. government does mandate vaccines for people who are immigrating to the U.S. as a --

HARLOW: Interesting.

BESSER: -- criteria for coming in. Schools, you know, states can set vaccine requirements and they do that at the school level. CDC through its work with what's called the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices makes recommendations, but what you really want to do is create demand.

And in order to create demand, there has to be transparency, there has to be trust, you have to believe that any vaccine that the FDA is going to prove has gone through the right testing, to show it's safe and it's effective.

And you have to be working with communities so that they understand the value in vaccination. Mandatory vaccination rules have had challenges and problems throughout. Even in health care where it's critically important that health care workers get vaccinated. So you want to increase the demand for this and that involves trust. And we are faced with a situation right now where there is a bankruptcy of trust.

SCIUTTO: Huge trust deficit. Just quickly, before we go, the president did not give a clear answer once again on whether he took a test, whether he was tested for coronavirus on the day of the debate.

HARLOW: Right.

SCIUTTO: He seemed to be saying perhaps not. I just wonder from a health perspective, I mean, it was an honor system. These were the requirements of the debate. Irresponsible at a minimum to have a clear answer on that? BESSER: Well, you know, one of the things that's clear, if you are

doing contact tracing is you need to know what the starting point is. And you know, that starting point should be when someone had symptoms or in a situation where people are getting serial testing, that it's when they were last negative. So the dates of that are very important.

The further out that we get the less relevant that becomes, but it is so important that for contact tracing you understand when someone first develops symptoms.

SCIUTTO: Simple questions and important ones.

Doctor Richard Besser, we hope we get answers. Thanks very much.

The FBI has labeled QAnon a domestic terror threat, so why is the president refusing in simple terms to denounce the group's conspiracy theorists, even last night seeming to elevate one of their conspiracy theories?

And the president says if he and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi agree on a stimulus plan, he is ready to sign. However we just learned this morning the two have not spoken in a year. What does that say about the prospect for negotiations for a deal as millions of Americans, perhaps many of you, wait for aid.

HARLOW: And just an unbelievable turnout for early voters. So far 17 million people have casts their ballots. We'll hit the latest headlines.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:15:00]

HARLOW: Welcome back. President Trump is back on the campaign trail today after last night's town hall where he once again refused to denounce QAnon conspiracy theories. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Talking about QAnon?

GUTHRIE: I just told you --

TRUMP: I know very -- you told me, but what you tell me doesn't necessarily make it fact. I hate to say that. I know nothing about it. I do know they are very much against pedophilia, they fight it very hard. But I know nothing about it --

GUTHRIE: They believe it is a satanic cult --

TRUMP: If you're likely to --

GUTHRIE: Run by the deep state --

TRUMP: Study the subject -- I will tell you what I do know about, I know about Antifa and I know about the radical left and I know how violent they are and how vicious they are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Joining us now, "Washington Examiner" and national political reporter Salena Zito and "New York Times" national political reporter Astead Herndon. Thanks to both of you for coming on.

[09:20:00]

We didn't continue the whole exchange there on QAnon, but folks who missed it, and Salena, I just want to highlight this for a moment because Savannah Guthrie pressed the president on what is a central conspiracy theory of QAnon, and that is that Democrats run, and I'm saying this out loud because it became a topic of debate yesterday, a satanic cult involving child trafficking and so on, for which there is no evidence.

Why isn't that a simple answer for the president, and especially given the time period, two and a half weeks to an election where as you've noted, you know, the real job for the president now is to win over skeptical undecided voters.

SALENA ZITO, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, WASHINGTON EXAMINER: Right. I think the president is answering the question in the way that he believes voters are viewing this type of question. I don't know if that's right or wrong.

I just think that, that is his instinct. And so, what he says is, you know, I don't know everything about them, all right, I don't know this part about them, I do know this tiny bit part about them. In talking to voters who are undecided and watching that, they tend to be more interested, fair and unfair, in listening about things that impact their lives rather than things that tend to live in their point of view on the internet, and not really in their lives.

SCIUTTO: I get it, Salena, but with respect --

HARLOW: Yes --

SCIUTTO: This is a conspiracy theory that Democrats are running a child sex ring out of the basement of a pizza place in Washington where my son had his seventh birthday, right? It's patently false and whack-a-doodle, I mean, for lack of a better word. I just -- you know, I know that what voters really care about is will I have a job? Will I be healthy and safe?

ZITO: Right --

SCIUTTO: But let's be frank, shouldn't it be easy for the president of the United States to dismiss a baseless conspiracy theory in this important moment?

ZITO: Of course, it should be very easy. He's not always done things in a way that we, as journalist, have an expectation for him to do. We as journalist want to see a straight answer, even about something that people are unsure of what it means, let alone how to even say it, but -- yes, it should be easy to say, no, that's -- you know, I don't support that or I condemn it. And it's crisp in clear terms in the way he denounced white supremacy last night. He should have been able to do that with that as well.

HARLOW: Astead, I wonder if you think that it is beyond just answering in a way that journalists want him to answer, right? To Jim's point, someone showed up at that pizza place --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

HARLOW: With a gun because of QAnon. There are multiple reports of mothers in Colorado, in Utah moving to kidnap their own children, right, in custody battles because they were driven by QAnon conspiracy theories online. There's the warning from the FBI about the danger to America of QAnon. It is so -- it is so real world, it is not just about online conspiracy theories.

ASTEAD HERNDON, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Yes, and we can play that kind of psycho-analysis of Trump and say we know that he's a lull to disavow anyone who, you know, likes him, that applies to QAnon and it applies to David Duke that applies to other folks he has been asked to denounce.

But this also is as you mentioned, an unwillingness for him to take that role as president seriously, for him to listen to his own intelligence, for him to put the health and safety of American people who are at risk from these type of conspiracy theories first.

And so, you have the FBI issuing a warning, you have intelligence agencies saying that kind of right-wing extremism and white supremacy -- white supremacist groups are kind of clear threats to the American public. And then that means that you have a president who is not willing to take that next step to disavow that. I mean, we talk sometimes about sister soldier moments, about times in which politicians disavow the fringe in order to bring in the moderates.

That's been something that he has not been willing to do from the front. It is both a political problem that voters still see him as someone of a fringe that has not been able to win him over, some of those more moderate or swing voters, but it is also a leadership problem, and that American people are at risk when these type of violent extremists are not clearly put to the side.

SCIUTTO: Salena, to your point, I know you have a broader point to make here. I didn't want to make it all about that, because I know you're talking about other issues that truly matter to voters today, for instance, on the message of the economy. So, I'm curious, in listening to the two candidates last night toggling back and forth perhaps, what is --

ZITO: Yes --

SCIUTTO: That closing message from your point of view?

[09:25:00] ZITO: Well, the message from President Trump was that -- it was

aspirational. I want to take you to a better place, I want to continue to take you to a better place and I have your back. That is the message that he needed to make. And as to former Vice President Joe Biden, he also wanted to -- he conveyed more of a message like it's going to return to normalcy.

So it's more about comportment, and how he would manage things. And I think that is what he's consistently tried to do to win over voters, and he's been effective. President Trump was effective last night in speaking about the economy. He's always so much better when he talks about the economy than perhaps when he talks about COVID.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: You know, Joe Biden didn't exactly give totally clear answers last night, especially continually, Astead, on this issue of potentially packing the Supreme Court, despite saying multiple times he's not a fan of it. Listen to this exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, TELEVISION JOURNALIST: But don't voters have a right to know where you stand?

JOE BIDEN, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE FOR 2020: They do have a right to know where I stand. Have a right to know where I stand before they vote.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So you will come out with a clear position before election day?

BIDEN: Yes, depending on how they handle this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: That's a big qualifier. Depending on how they handle it, Astead. Why won't he answer this question?

HERNDON: I mean, clearly, the Biden campaign has made the choice that they want to kind of have it both ways. They do not want to do something that distracts from what they think should be the litmus test of the election, the president and his handling of the coronavirus pandemic.

But at the same time, I think that they are worried about putting too much distance, igniting too much controversy between them and the kind of vocal progressive link in these initial weeks. Once that election is over, we might hear come -- Joe Biden come out and say, oh, no, I would never do that or I would never do the green new deal or all these other things that could then kind of set the battle lines between an incoming administration and Congress.

I think they want to hold on to this Democratic unity for the last couple of weeks, and they know that even though the kind of media unsatisfying answer from this, that this is not the top issue for voters, and so they're letting that kind of disconnect exist as in the run up to this election, basically just saying we'll handle it the day after.

HARLOW: All right, we'll see. Thank you both. So nice to have you. Salena, good to have you back, especially, it's been a while, and Astead, thank you so much. Well, in Wisconsin, hospitals are being overwhelmed as the state experiences an alarming spike in COVID-19 infections in that state, we'll take you there live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)