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Pfizer Expects to Apply for Emergency Use Authorization in U.S. for Its COVID-19 Vaccine as Early as Next Month; Trump, Biden Make Case to Voters at Dueling Town Halls; GOP Senator Slams Trump, Warns of Republican Blood Bath. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired October 16, 2020 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: A very good Friday morning to you. It is Friday. I'm Jim Sciutto.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN NEWSROOM: It's been a week. I'm Poppy Harlow. We're so glad you're here.

Well, this morning, we are following new developments in the race for a coronavirus vaccine as the nation grapples with a surge in cases and hospitalizations across the country. Drug Giant Pfizer says it now expects to apply for emergency use authorization for its COVID vaccine in the United States as early as late next month. They say, we're operating at the speed of science. That's notable.

It comes in this open letter from Pfizer's CEO where he also writes, quote, all the data contained in our U.S. application will be reviewed not only by the FDA's own scientist but also by an external panel of independent panel of experts at a publicly held meeting convened by the agency.

SCIUTTO: Now, to be clear that pledge of transparency is standard. It is still important though given America's growing concerns, questions that political pressure coming from the White House might apply pressure to rush a vaccine before it's safe and ready.

Also this morning, President Trump and Joe Biden both back on the campaign trail today after last night's dueling town halls, a stark contrast in both substance and style. More from the town halls in a moment.

First, we do want to go to Elizabeth Cohen for what we know about this Pfizer vaccine trial. And we spoke about his last hour, but is anything of what they're doing here in terms of public release of the information and also getting an outside panel to kind of double check the results, any of that unusual?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: So, Jim, the outside panel, as it's described in the letter from the CEO of Pfizer doesn't seem to be anything different. All of these trials have to not just go to the Food and Drug Administration, they also have to go through what's called the data and safety monitoring board. This board is so independent, Jim, that they actually won't tell you who's on it because they don't want anybody to try to influence them. So that's good. That's the standard way of doing it. That's a good way of doing it.

What we're seeing is Pfizer and other companies getting smarter and emphasizing not speed, but emphasizing safety because they can see from the polls they get worse and worse with each passing month, so many Americans not trusting this vaccine. So now the companies are getting smarter and emphasizing safety.

Now, I want to take a look at a sentence from this letter from the Pfizer's CEO. And there's a word here that really gives me some pause and I think should give all of us pause, as far as sort of putting this in context. This says, assuming positive data, Pfizer will apply for emergency authorization use in the U.S. soon after the safety milestone is achieved in the third week of November, assuming positive data.

What they're trying to say is, look, we anticipate having data to look at. Assuming it's positive, we will go for authorization from the FDA. It might not be positive. They don't know because they haven't seen it. It might not be positive. They might end up with data showing, look, you did a trial and, so far, your vaccine is not working or we can't tell if your vaccine is working, continue your trial.

So the fact that they're saying, assuming positive data, tells us they might not actually be going to the FDA. They might or they might not. And that's important for us all to keep in mind just to sort of temper our expectations. Jim, Poppy?

SCIUTTO: Understood. Glad you caught that, Elizabeth. It's why we have you dive into this so deeply.

Well, Joe Biden and President Trump are both back on the campaign trail today holding events in key states this after last night's dueling town halls. President Trump tried to reset his campaign while also defending his response to the pandemic.

HARLOW: Let's go to Ocala, Florida. The president is set to have a rally there today. And it's where we find our Jeremy Diamond. Good morning, to you, Jeremy.

Florida always a crucial state, especially crucial for the president this year on that path to re-nomination with older voters, where he has been struggling in recent weeks across the state.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, no question. This is a state that the president won last time around in 2016, and he is fighting here to try and win it again. The president on defense in many of those battleground states that he won last time around. And his problems in Florida are particularly acute with seniors, as you mentioned.

And that is where he is beginning his day today in Fort Myers, Florida, with an event focused on America's seniors and his plans for American seniors. This, as we know that Joe Biden has been gaining advantage with those seniors who were reliable demographic for the president back in 2016. After that, we'll find the president here in Ocala, Florida, where he will have a campaign rally, and then another rally this evening in Macon, Georgia.

And so what is clear is that the president moving forward with this campaign as if this pandemic were not happening.

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And that is also what we heard from the president last night, during his town hall in Miami, where we heard the president continue to downplay the threat of this pandemic and insist that the United States is doing better than it actually is. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, MSNBC HOST: Our deaths per capita is among the highest --

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Excess mortality. We're a winner on the excess mortality. And what we've done has been amazing. And we have done an amazing job. And it's rounding the corner and we have the vaccines coming and we have the therapies coming.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: And you hear the president say there that we are rounding the corner when, in fact, cases are shooting up across the country. Most states in the United States right now experiencing increases and the availability data on the excess mortality just doesn't support what the president is saying. And Savannah Guthrie is correct there to point out that the United States has one of the highest death rates per capita.

Now, the president was also asked last night about this question about when he had his last negative test. Listen to the response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTHRIE: Did you test the day of the debate?

TRUMP: I don't know. I don't remember.

GUTHRIE: Did you take a test though on the day of the debate?

TRUMP: If you ask the doctor, they'll give you a perfect answer. But they take the test and I leave and I go about my business.

GUTHRIE: So did you take a test on the day of the debate, I guess, is the bottom line?

TRUMP: I probably did. And I took a test the day before and the day before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: And this is a question, Jim and Poppy, that the president and his team have repeatedly refused to answer. And the president saying there that he doesn't remember if he took a test on debate day is probably all we need to hear. The president likely would remember if he took a test on the day of the debate, particularly because it's been such a source of controversy since the president tested positive for coronavirus.

And what we know is that the president not only do we know if he tested positive on that day of the debate but he also went on to travel to several states in the days following that, and, again, putting other people at risk, as we know. Jim, Poppy?

SCIUTTO: Well, knowing is essential to proper contact tracing. The when matters. Jeremy Diamond, thanks very much.

Well, President Trump misrepresented a week's old CDC study during last night's town hall, making false claims, we've got to say it, about masks and infection. Have a listen.

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TRUMP: As far as the mask is concerned, I'm good with masks. I'm okay with masks. I tell people to wear masks. But just the other day, they came out with a statement that 85 percent of the people that wear masks catch it. So, this is a very tricky --

GUTHRIE: They didn't say that. I know that study.

TRUMP: That's what I heard and that's what I saw.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Well, it's not what the study said. It talked about people going to indoor restaurants. Let's move on for a moment.

The president said this after he himself having COVID. Compare that to what the former New Jersey governor, Chris Christie, said, a member of the president's debate prep team, after revealing yesterday he spent seven days in the ICU battling coronavirus.

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FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTE (R-NH): I've been so careful, George, for seven months because of my asthma, wearing masks, washing my hands, social distancing. And for seven months, I was able to avoid the virus in one of the worst hit states in the country, in New Jersey. But I let my guard down. And it was wrong. It was just a big mistake.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: He let his guard down at that White House event.

Joining me now, Dr. Carlos del Rio, the Executive Associate Dean of Emory University School of Medicine. Dr. del Rio, always good to have you on this morning.

DR. CARLOS DEL RIO, EXECUTIVE ASSOCIATE DEAN, EMORY UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Good morning, Jim.

SCIUTTO: I want to play, because I want you to place into context for our viewers the importance of this. Another comment from Chris Christie, which, we remind folks, he was infected, he was at that White House event, he spent seven days in an ICU. He says the following, have a listen, about whether the White House contacted him to do contact tracing. Have a listen.

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CHRISTIE: Well, I know there was no contact tracing done with me, George. My contact tracing was done by my local county board of health. They called me while I was in the hospital to contact trace and make sure they had all that information.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Now, White House officials claim that they did contact trace after that event. How credible is that claimed contact tracing if you don't comment someone who is very close to the present, who was infected, and, in fact, very sick from this virus?

DEL RIO: Well, I think, Jim, that contact tracing, in general, has failed in our country. I mean, the idea was, on theory, you'd test people, you find those that are infected and you rapidly go and find their contacts and either quarantine or contact, test them and try to stop transmission that way.

But I would say, as a country, we have really failed in contact tracing. And I'm not surprised that the White House is part of that failure. Basically, we haven't done the job we need to do in contact tracing. And so as a result of that, we have not stopped the chains of transmission.

SCIUTTO: Well, it's a shame. It's a shame because all the science seems to show it would make a difference.

On the question of whether he was tested the day of the debate. This is a very simple question with a simple answer, yes or no.

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White House doctors had refused to answer it, the president last night gave a sort of, I don't really know, maybe I did, maybe I didn't, I think, was his phrasing there. Given that we may have to accept the possibility or the fact that he was not tested that day.

From a health care perspective, is that irresponsible?

DEL RIO: Well, I mean, I think it's -- we should know the day of the test. But I think the issue is, and I want to emphasize this to people, a negative test does not mean that you're not infected. And I think the White House then showed us that they did test for that event and then everybody took off their mask and then we had a super- spreader event.

So I want to emphasize that rather than thinking the test as a preventative strategy, the test allows you to identify those that are infected. But if you're negative, that doesn't mean you're in the clear.

And I think the important thing is people at the debate should have been wearing masks. I was very concerned when I saw that many people in his camp, when they sat down, took off their masks. And people, colleagues from the Cleveland Clinic, which was there at the debate, asked them to put on their mask and they refused. I think that's the part that I find irresponsible.

SCIUTTO: Yes, simple steps. And you see Chris Christie saying, listen, I let my guard down, right, and paid for it, in effect.

Big picture question, if I can, here, because you're seeing a surge in the U.S., you're also seeing a surge in Europe in new infections. In countries that had gotten a better handle on this early on, a country such as Germany, given that, do you see the U.S. response comparatively as less of a failure, if you see what I mean here, in that both Europe and the U.S. are going through a big jump right now?

DEL RIO: No, I think so. And I think what this is telling us is that this virus is really tricky and really, really hard to control. And I think, as governor Chris Christie said, he let his guard down once and then he got infected, ended up in the ICU. And I'm glad he's fine but he could have easily died.

I particularly like his statement. And on his statement, he says something that he's urging leaders, regardless of political affiliation, to urge every American to wear a mask. And that's what I would say. I think we need to continue urging everybody to wear a mask, to continue social distancing and to avoid places that are crowded.

The surge in Europe is primarily driven by young people going to bars, to restaurants, to nightclubs, and I think going to those places that are crowded, that are close with not good air circulation and not wearing a mask is exactly how transmission is occurring.

So we know how to stop transmission. It's hard. It is not easy. But I think we need to continue doing it because it also is very hard to see people sick and more importantly see people dying. We have an unacceptably high number of people have died in this country. And thought is -- the prediction is that by the end of the year, we will be close to half a million Americans having died from this virus.

SCIUTTO: And we know that masks help. And sad to see the president question that again last night on a big platform. Dr. Carlos del Rio, thanks very much.

DEL RIO: Thank you, Jim. SCIUTTO: Well, Republican Senator Ben Sasse is not mincing his words, criticizing the president in a call with constituents. He's now issuing a dire warning as well about the GOP's chances in this upcoming election.

HARLOW: Also, a new devastating report shows the ongoing stimulus stalemate that is pushing millions of Americans -- millions more into poverty.

And as the president refuses to directly condemn the fringe conspiracy group, QAnon, CNN speaks to the former supporter about the real life dangers of this.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn't realize the nefarious kind of impact it was having on me because it was very insidious how it slowly disconnected me from reality.

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SCIUTTO: Well, you may have heard there's an election in a couple weeks' time, and many people are already voting and the president and Joe Biden fighting for last-minute holdouts, undecideds ahead of November 3rd. It comes as a Republican is warning of a blood bath for the GOP. Listen to what Nebraska Senator Ben Sasse said on a call with 17,000 constituents.

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SEN. BEN SASSE (R-NE): If young people become permanent Democrats because they've just been repulsed by the obsessive nature of our politics or if women who were willing to still vote with the Republican Party in 2016 decide that they need to turn away from this party permanently in the future, the debate is not going to be, Ben Sasse, why were you so mean to Donald Trump? It's going to be what the heck were any of us thinking that selling a T.V. obsessed narcissistic individual to the American people was a good idea. It is not a good idea.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: We are joined now by David Gergen, former adviser to four presidents and Axios Political and White House Editor Margaret Talev. Good morning to you, both.

David, we know Ben Sasse didn't vote for the president before, he's not been a huge -- I will note he's voted with the president, though, 86 percent of the time. But it's kind of like it's still wow when you hear it, right? And I wonder what you think it means for the party, right? It's -- I mean, is it like, you know, all of a sudden Nebraska is going to become blue for the first time since 1964 or what? DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: No. But I do -- I think that the impact of this is going to come after the elections. If the Republicans lose this election, Ben Sasse's comments are going to be mild compared to what we're going to hear from a lot of other Republicans who have, in many ways, cowardly not spoken up yet.

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They're going to get, again, into a real fight about the future of the Republican Party when this is over. It will not be pretty, it will divide the base but it will be healthy for the party.

SCIUTTO: Margaret Talev, we do have this election coming up in a couple of weeks, people have already started voting. There are though undecideds. And I wonder when you looked at last night, did you see from Trump or Biden, frankly, an appeal -- a workable appeal to undecideds that makes a difference at this point?

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Jim, you know, I think Biden's appeal to undecideds is this notion that he can unite the country, that he is committed to protecting or reaching out to or including Republicans or people who opposed him and maybe he thinks that will appeal to some independents.

But, really, I think both of the -- the problem with Biden is that last night's performance wasn't exactly like energizing. We saw him kind of -- there was a young African-American male voter who just didn't seem particularly enthused but more resigned to his choices.

But I think with President Trump, you really -- if you are in the middle and undecided and looking for any sense of sort of calm or resolution or, you know, next chapters, you didn't get that last night. You got a fight. And if a fight is what you wanted, you probably already know where you are.

But I don't think either candidate is really thinking about the undecideds at this point. I think for both of them, it's clearly about energizing their base and turnout, President Trump working to depress turnout for Biden and Biden just trying to energize as much turnout for himself as possible.

But you wouldn't see President Trump courting seniors today in Florida or making a trip to Georgia unless he was really in trouble in some strongholds. So that tells you a lot.

HARLOW: To that point, Margaret, just quickly, you believe on the energizing point that Biden did not do a strong enough job last night of energizing young black men.

TALEV: I think it's a potential concern but only in battleground states where it's really, really close. I mean, African-American voters, male and female, overwhelmingly support Democrats but President Trump, all the polls tell us, at least, has ticked up a couple of percentage points with younger black men or black men, in general. And for Biden, if he has a turnout problem in other segments of the Democratic Party, you know, we all know how close this race came in a handful of key states, that's President Trump's best hope now, some of those same states as before, right, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania.

Pennsylvania has got a bunch of legal challenges also. So, really, every vote is going to count in Pennsylvania.

SCIUTTO: David Gergen, you've watched a fair number of elections in your time, including 2016 when so many folks were surprised by the end result. There is a view of this race that you hear in Senator Sasse's comments there, right, and that other Republicans are saying privately about a fear of not just a loss but a landslide. I just wonder, do you believe that at this point?

GERGEN: Look, I think Senator Ben Sasse wouldn't have spoken up that way if he felt this was truly going to be a very, very close election, and maybe because he would then be -- he'd be thrown out of the party, in effect, for tipping it over.

I have a somewhat different view from Margaret. I think what Joe Biden did last night was to reassure voters. I don't think he brought out a lot of new voters but I think he gave reassurances that he is going to be a normal kind of person that somebody can relate to.

Susan Glasser, I thought, had it right in the commentary this morning when she said it was Mr. Rogers on one side versus your nasty uncle on the other in that context (ph).

But one other point that's important, while it's true that -- you know, that neither side thinks they're going to win over many independents, but a lot now depends on turnout. And the Democrats, even though the registration numbers over the last few years favor the Republicans, the turnouts so far have been astonishing and they favor the Democrats. And I think that Biden is -- he's not sitting on a lead but I think he's trying to solidify the kinds of people coming to the polls.

HARLOW: Margaret, I know it's probably really different in a pandemic, but if the phrase, you know, it's the economy, stupid, still holds, at least to a certain extent, you have the president who still beats Biden on the economy in polling or is pretty neck and neck with him.

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And even Biden advisers will say they need to be stronger on the economy message.

And you heard the president last night say, we have got the strongest economy in the world, we set a record 11.4 million jobs. I mean, he forgets the fact that we're still down 10.7 million jobs since March.

Given that and given the poverty numbers we've been talking about here, how many more Americans are being pushed into poverty, does the Biden camp need to be much stronger on their economic message?

TALEV: You know, this is a difficult question, right, because, yes, voters vote on the economy. But the pandemic and real concerns about the way the president has handled it, including the economic implications, are working for Biden. They are helping drive so much of the support around him because the contrast to the way President Trump handled this situation.

So I think Biden is going to be very careful not to pivot too fast from the pandemic. It's such a strong issue for him. But I do think to the extent that he can tie the economy and concerns about what's going to happen next with the economy, the longer term effects of this pandemic, that's probably his route for making this case in some of those crucial battleground states in closing weeks but not to the extent that it would pull away from the pandemic. He's stronger on the health news right now, why walk away from that?

SCIUTTO: David, we still have one more presidential debate on the schedule next week, right, what was meant to be the third but will be the second, if it happens. Did last night give us any hints as to how that might go, if any differently from the first one, which, of course, was notably contentious?

GERGEN: Well, I think the only real question is, is Donald Trump going to try to change stripes, is he going to try to show some other side of him that's not come out? So far, I think we've had a couple of nights out here now and plus a Kamala debate. And so far, I think the Democrats have won every encounter like this. The Democrats do have a message, and Trump does not have a message.

I do think, and I have to go to Margaret's point about the economy, Joe Biden needs to drive home now that he's not going to be taxing people who make under $400,000 a year. That point is still very much in contention. The Republicans are attacking it.

And I can tell you, there are a lot of middle class people who will vote to a large extent upon getting that kind of reassurance.

HARLOW: Very good points. Thank you all. Try to have a restful weekend, because I think it's going to be another busy week ahead. Thanks, Margaret, thanks David.

TALEV: Thanks.

GERGEN: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, we'll try. We'll try.

More than 30 states are seeing a rise now in coronavirus, new infections, several of those setting records as they do. We're going to have a live update on the hardest hit states in this country. That's coming up next.

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