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Coronavirus Rising In 32 States Versus Last Week; Dr. Anthony Fauci: If Your Aren't Wearing Masks, Distancing, "You're Becoming Part Of The Problem"; President Donald Trump Spreads Misinformation At Last Night's Town Hall; Joe Biden Performs Clear Position On "Court Packing" By Election Day; New Mexico Governor Tells Residents To "Stay Home". Aired 12-12:30p ET
Aired October 16, 2020 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:00:00]
JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Hello to our viewers in the Unites States and around the world. I am John King in Washington. Thank you so much for sharing a very busy news day with us. A new interview last hour from the nation's top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci, the clear take away? We have big reason to worry.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: The baseline fluctuated, and never went down to the level that I would have hoped it went down to. You can't enter into the cool months of the fall and the cold months of the winter with a high community infection baseline and looking at the map and seeing the heat map, how it lights up with test positivity that is more than 30 plus states is going in the wrong direction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Dr. Fauci says, it is not too late to turn around the alarming trends, but he says that requires everybody, but especially young people, to take public health seriously and to have a more uniform approach to things like wearing masks from states across the country. The numbers underlying the growing trouble. Thursday, 63,000 plus new cases.
The United States topping that 60,000 new infections mark for the first time since August 14th. The pandemic truly a nationwide concern. 26 states reporting more than 1,000 cases on Thursday. Dr. Fauci says Thanksgiving this year, yes, will look very different and that we are a long way away from back to normal.
The president again though at odds with his top expert. The president says we're on the way down. That is simply a lie. Listen here to a close ally of the president who got infected at a Trump White House that ignores basic science and ignores common sense.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR: I was doing it right for seven months and avoided the virus. I let my guard down for a couple of days inside the White House grounds and it cost me in a significant way.
(ENDVIDEO CLIP)
KING: Let's take a closer look at the numbers that have Dr. Fauci so concerned and you start with the 50 states trend map. Orange and red is bad, so a lot of bad. 32 states heading in the wrong direction, by that meaning more new COVID infections being reported right now than a week ago. 32 states are trending up. 15 states in beige holding steady.
Only three of the 50 states reporting fewer new COVID infections right now than a week ago. So, 32 states trending up and you see it, not all of it, it goes Florida up to Washington State diagonally across, but the northern part of the country where it is getting cooler and colder, the bulk of the problem right now. If you want to look at cases just yesterday, consider this the heat map.
The deeper the orange, the higher the case count. You see Wisconsin and Illinois, Florida, North Carolina, Texas and California, lighter out here, but still these are smaller or less populous states, the Dakotas for example, Nebraska, Montana.
So, they don't have as many cases, but given the way they're going, it's still bad news out there. Nine states just yesterday, nine states setting records, case records just yesterday. And you see again a cluster here in the Midwest out here across New Mexico and Colorado, included in there as well and North Carolina.
This case timeline is what Dr. Fauci is so worried about. When you hear him say baseline, he means this, back at the beginning of the summer surge, 18,000 new infections were about the average every day. He wanted that shoved down even more. Didn't happen, and we got up high. 64,000 on August 14th, 77 back in the middle of July.
Why do we have August 14th highlighted? Because for the first time since then, we went back above 60,000 yesterday. Came down a bit from the summer surge, but we began it at about 20, we came down to about 40, and now going back up. The concern of all the public health experts, if you start at 40,000 as your baseline, how high do you go if cases start to explode again.
The death trend at the moment, you see the blue line, that's your seven-day moving average that's flat. Still sad, it is still sad between 500 and a thousand. But you see a lot of red above the blue line. That tells you the trend line is going to trickle back up if that continues, if you have the daily count coming in above the trend line.
Dr. Fauci just talked about positivity. First the national numbers 6.3 percent. Again, every public health expert says get it to five, shove it down more. If you're above five, and you have more widespread, more likely community spread, that's the national number.
This is the map Dr. Fauci is worried about. 36 percent positivity in South Dakota, 22 percent in Idaho, 23 percent in Wisconsin, 20 percent in Iowa, 12 percent in Florida. The deeper the blue or gray, the higher the positivity. A lot of double digits across the country here.
So what can be done? Well, Dr. Fauci says everybody needs to listen, wear a mask and spread out. But he says it is difficult to get that message across especially to young people because many of them get Coronavirus that's not so bad.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. FAUCI: It is very difficult in relating to the people how serious it really is, because there are so many people who get infected who have no serious consequences. All you need to do is look at the numbers. 215,000 deaths in the United States, 7.8 million infections. If you think that by getting infected and saying, pooh-poohing the prevention modalities that you're living in a vacuum and you're not, no. You're becoming part of the problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[12:05:00]
KING: Joining our conversation is, Dr. Jennifer Pena, she was the Vice President Pence's Physician. Dr. Pena, it's good to see you again. You hear Dr. Fauci almost every day, but there in great detail.
He is exasperated and he is trying to get a message out, he's frankly trying to get a message out that the president and vice president are not helping with him at the moment, because they're campaigning and trying to suggest that everything is fine. When you see the case count now trickling back above 60,000 new infections a day, what does that tell you about the trajectory?
DR. JENNIFER PENA, FORMER PHYSICIAN TO VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Yes, good afternoon, John. And thank you for having me back. You know as a medical provider, I took a Hippocratic Oath and it feels at times that the president and vice president and this administration are taking a hypocritical oath or took a hypocritical oath by doing things that hurt the American people that they promised to serve and protect.
Meaning this administration insist on holding these large rallies, creating these known super spreader events in places like Wisconsin tomorrow where the positivity rate is over 20 percent. In Iowa just earlier this week, where the White House experts themselves are insisting against large gatherings and promoting social distancing.
So, I'm concerned about this, because it's not just the people that attend these rallies, it is the second and third order effects of these people bringing the infection home, and we are starting at a bad baseline like Dr. Fauci just mentioned.
So, honestly this behavior to me is almost bordering on crenel when you're deliberately doing something that you know will hurt the American people, and lead to more disease and death. This is just extremely concerning. KING: But we're in a political year of course, and you mentioned the
president's rallies. One of them was in North Carolina just yesterday. The president knows that Dr. Fauci is saying things that cast his handling of the pandemic in a bad light. He knows Dr. Fauci is saying people need to double down, that things are getting worse, not better. So the president says well, don't listen to Dr. Fauci.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And - my friend, he's a nice guy, Tony. Tony Fauci. He is a nice guy. He said this is not a threat, this is not a problem, don't worry about this. There was a problem. It is the craziest thing.
Then he said do not wear a mask. Do not wear a mask under any circumstances. But he's a nice guy, so I keep him around, I keep him around. He is a Democrat. Everybody knows that. He is Cuomo's friend.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: At the beginning of that, he is taking Dr. Fauci out of context, months ago and months ago and months ago, yes, a lot of experts said don't get a mask. Dr. Fauci has been quite consistent in recent months about the power of masks in saving lives and protecting people.
But the last part there, the president essentially telling anyone who supports him, don't listen to the nation's top health expert because he is a Democrat. You worked with Dr. Fauci. Should we listen to him?
DR. PENA: John, Dr. Fauci has been the voice of reason in an extremely unreasonable time for our country. And I'll tell you, as somebody who has worked at the White House and served this administration, I can tell you it's a thankless job to be a medical provider in this White House. It's hard to continue to be ethical and moral and it comes at a lot of sacrifice.
And Dr. Fauci sacrifices every day to keep our people informed of the truth and the science and he has owed an immense debt of gratitude for his service to this country. He does not deserve to be misrepresented, politicized or insulted.
KING: One of the big issues in the campaign and one of the biggest issues for the country right now set the campaign aside, is when we might have a proven, efficient, effective Coronavirus vaccine ready? This was the subject last night that came up in Joe Biden's Town Hall.
The Democrat listen here saying that, if the scientists say and certify this is safe, maybe because of all of the public skepticism out there, we should make it mandatory. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And once we get it, if it's safe, if it's effective, will you mandate its use?
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I would think that we should be talking about, depending on the continuation of the spread of the virus, we should be thinking about making it mandatory.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Mandatory in the context of politics and government causes a lot of people to step back. But do you think that is wise and necessary from a public health perspective?
DR. PENA: Well, you know, John, there's been a lot of talk about this herd immunity concept. And I'll tell you, the only way or the best way that we're going to achieve that herd immunity in this country will be through vaccination, and not irresponsible exposure as has been suggested by this administration recently.
I will say, as public health folks, we have lost a lot of credibility because of the unfortunate politicizing of the pandemic. And so, it's going to require time to regain that trust. But vaccination is going to be important. But that's only going to come once we are able to fully demonstrate the safety and efficacy of these vaccines.
KING: Dr. Pena grateful for your expertise and your insights, especially your White House experience. Thank you so much for your time today.
DR. PENA: Thank you, John.
KING: Up next for us, as we noted, last night was town hall night. Among the highlights for the president, defending his practice of sharing wild conspiracy theories.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:10:00]
KING: Joe Biden was live in Philadelphia. President Trump live in Miami. It was supposed to be debate night. But instead, it was competing televised town halls. There was some news and some old habits.
Democrat Biden, for example, went longer than long sometimes in defending past positions and walking through policy options. President Trump also defaulted quite a bit to his trademark, saying things that are nowhere close to true.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: But just the other day, they came out with a statement that 85 percent of the people that wear masks catch it. We're always protecting people with pre-existing conditions. And I can't say that more strongly. We are going to take care of DACA. We're going to take care of Dreamers. It is working right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Joining me now, Laura Barron-Lopez, with POLITICO and Julie Pace with "The Associated Press". Laura, let me start with you. The president says we're always taking care of pre-existing conditions. [12:15:00]
KING: He is going to argue a case before the Supreme Court in a matter of days really, couple of weeks, saying get rid of Obamacare, get rid of their protections that help people with pre-existing conditions. And he says there are talks ongoing on DACA. No. That would be a surprise to me. Are there?
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, POLITICO: And not so far as I know, John. I mean, that is not something that law makers be at it on the Democrat or Republican side have said anything about in terms of actually moving DACA legislation to protect Dreamers.
And again what was interesting in President Trump's answer last night was that, when he was asked why he hadn't moved to protect Dreamers, the DACA program, which is a program that his administration has repeatedly tried to end or curtail?
He turned to the Coronavirus saying that immigration issues changed because of the Coronavirus. He also referenced ending catch and release. So not answering directly at all why his administration repeatedly has tried to end that program?
KING: Right. If they wanted to act on health care or immigration, they had three years before the Coronavirus. Number one, two of those three years, they had a Republican Congress to go along with their Republican President they did nothing on either issue. They were unsuccessful.
Julie Pace another thing that is always interesting, I use a polite word when you watch this president is he has access to more information than anybody on the planet, right? He is the President of the United States, he has as much access at least maybe some other world leaders come close to it, but he completely misstates the numbers on Coronavirus, repeatedly.
He is either lying or not doing his homework. And then there's this issue of QAnon, the president has called the Republican Congressional Candidate who is a QAnon believer, this is a conspiracy theory that believes there are satanic worshippers and pedophiles in a deep state running the United States government.
He has praised them, he has been asked about it repeatedly. Comes out last night, and he says, I don't know. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Let me just tell you what I do hear about it is they are very strongly against pedophilia, and I agree with that. I mean, I do agree with that.
SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: OK. But there's not a satanic pedophilia --.
TRUMP: I have no idea. I know nothing about it. GUTHRIE: You don't know that? Just this week you retweeted to your 87
million followers a conspiracy theory that Joe Biden orchestrated to have SEAL Team Six, the Navy SEAL Team Six killed to cover up the fake death of Bin Laden. Now why would you send a lot of your followers? You retweeted it.
TRUMP: I know nothing about it. That was a re-tweet. That was an opinion of somebody and that was a retweet. I will put it out there. People can decide for themselves.
GUTHRIE: I don't get that--
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Savannah Guthrie, Julie Pace was wise enough to say you're the President of the United States, not somebody's crazy uncle. But whether it's QAnon, whether it's other whack job conspiracy theories, the president thinks it's OK that he is just putting it out there.
JULIE PACE, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, ASSOCIATED PRESS: He absolutely does. He does not see the difference between an average American spreading something like that and the President of the United States doing that.
When the president puts something out there, that is the backing of the office. That sends a signal to not just to his millions of followers, but to so many Americans around the world that there's legitimacy to what he is spreading.
And you know he bristles sometimes when he gets asked about this, but there's a reason that this is important. He just has this real power behind that megaphone and he does not seem to sometimes recognize that there is risk in spreading conspiracy theories.
And when it comes to QAnon in particular, he has had multiple opportunities now, particularly since this congressional candidate that you mentioned won her primary, he's had multiple opportunities to disavow this conspiracy theory and he won't do it. He claims ignorance at times or he kind of cozies up to that, but he will not condemn, or call them what they are, which is a conspiracy theory.
KING: Right, a conspiracy theory. And Laura, Joe Biden got a question last night about court backing, he has been asked this before. Will you try to expand the number of members on the Supreme Court if you win the election? He has punted before, he punted again. But this time he added a promise. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If they vote before the election, you are open to expanding the court?
BIDEN: I am open to considering what happens from that point on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But don't voters have a right to know what you think? BIDEN: They have a right to know where I stand; I have the right to
know where I stand before they vote.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, you'll come out with a clear position before Election Day?
BIDEN: Yes, depending on how they handle this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: There was a yes; there was a comma after the yes. But Joe Biden now he essentially put himself in a box, didn't he?
BARRON-LOPEZ: Yes, Biden is saying that if the senate moves through with Barrett's confirmation and all indication is that they will end up confirming her before November 3rd, and then he is telling voters that he will have an answer for them on whether or not he wants to expand the court.
[12:20:00]
BARRON-LOPEZ: And that's something that if he says yes, that could ultimately yet rally members of the base behind him because the progressive wing certainly supports that. We've heard that more and more from progressives.
But again, there are a number of moderate voters who wouldn't necessarily like it if he said that, that's something he would do. I will just add though, that when I am talking to voters in states like Arizona and in Pennsylvania, so far, a lot of them do not have the Supreme Court on their mind.
They say they aren't paying attention to the Barrett hearings, and we haven't really seen any indication that this SCOTUS nomination is actually impacting the presidential race.
KING: That's a key point. I think that Biden believes that's more of a Washington conversation than American conversation right now. Julie Pace, I have been at this awhile. And there's a time-tested bipartisan tradition. If you're asked by a reporter on the campaign trail or in a debate, what will the lesson be if you lose, the answer is, I'm not going to lose. Not Joe Biden. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Vice President, if you lose, what will that say to you about where America is today?
BIDEN: Well, could say I'm a lousy candidate and I didn't do a good job. But I think, I hope that it doesn't say that we are as racially, ethnically and religiously at odds with one another as it appears the president wants us to be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Is that refreshing or is that Joe Biden wasting his time essentially by answering the question, he should just pivot and talk about something else?
PACE: Look, I find it refreshing when candidates actually answer that type of question because of course they're considering what happens if they lose. They don't often publicly say that, but of course that's the reality of the situation.
And I do think that Biden did give voice to what a lot of Americans who are planning to vote for him are wondering about what it will mean for the country? If he did lose, what it says about who we are as a nation?
And what we are willing to accept given how much we know about President Trump and how much his politics are tied to stirring up divisions across race, across gender at times? And he's put that very front and center, Americans have a clear eyed about that. And yet of course, there's a very good chance that he could still win this election knowing all of that.
KING: And we start counting them in 18 days, I don't know for no on the 18th day who the winner is? But we start counting them then. Julie Pace, Laura Barron-Lopez, grateful for the reporting and the insights.
Busy two weeks plus ahead for us. Up next, Coronavirus front and center, including the New Mexico Governor urging residents to stay at home as cases there spike.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:25:00]
KING: New Mexico's Governor not pulling any punches.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. MICHELLE GRISHAM (D-NM): This is the most serious emergency that New Mexico has ever faced. Stay home. If you don't have to go out, don't go out. If an errand is not required, food, life, safety, school, work, don't do it because it's that errand, that traveling that's moving the virus around.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: The numbers from New Mexico support that urgent tone. Look here, more than 600 new Coronavirus cases in the state yesterday. Hospitalizations, the governor says up 74 percent so far this month. And the state's top health official worries beds are getting scarce. New Mexico's Human Services Secretary Dr. David Scrase is with us now.
Doctor, thank you for joining us at a very time for you in the state. 74 percent up for hospitalizations, the number itself sounds hard and high. Listen here to Dr. Jon Fleming from the University of New Mexico Hospital putting it in context for us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. JON FLEMING, UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO EMERGENCY MEDICINE: Things are bad now in the hospital setting. We're full. We ran out of space in every way that you can imagine this week and it was a little bit scary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: It sounds a little bit scary. So walk us through the crisis in your state right now.
DR. DAVID SCRASE, NEW MEXICO HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: Well, John, I think I would just echo the words of Dr. Fauci earlier about the slightly higher baseline. We were doing very, very well just three, four, five weeks ago with test positivity rates in the 2 to 3 percent range, and case counts, in 6 to 8 per 100,000. And over those past five weeks, we have seen a very rapid up tick as one would expect with a virulent virus like COVID-19.
KING: So, what is it? Is it obviously you're in a better part of the country but it is getting cooler everywhere, especially in the mountain areas, the northern part of your state. Is it the cool, is it college campuses, is it all of the above?
DR. SCRASE: Yes, you know, we believe that it is just people being with other people, breathing the same air, which there are lots of opportunities to do in New Mexico. Of course, we think indoor gatherings, more dangerous than outdoor gatherings.
New Mexico is a big, large family gathering state. We had a fair amount of that over Labor Day. And people are getting tired of hunkering down. I don't think they want to believe it's another year ahead of us with this.
