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Trump Goes On Rally Blitz As 10 States Break COVID-19 Records; Trump Holds Michigan Rally As State Sees COVID Spike; How Vulnerable Are The Maskless Crowds At Trump Rallies?; New Study On Coronavirus Spread In Schools; Officials Investigating If Recently Published E- mails Are Tied To Russian Disinformation Effort Targeting Biden; Trump Doubles Down On Refusal To Denounce QAnon. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired October 17, 2020 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[17:00:05]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the list was really a pretext to get to know Ronald Reagan, who was now divorced.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Be sure to tune in all new episode of First Ladies, air tomorrow night at 10:00 right here on CNN.

You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

And we are just 17 days away from the Election Day. Coronavirus cases, unfortunately, are on the rise, but President Trump would like you to believe otherwise.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The light at the end of the tunnel is near. We are rounding the turn.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: We all wish we really were rounding the turn, but don't be mistaken, we are not rounding the turn toward the exit sign. At least ten states are reporting their highest single-day coronavirus case totals since the start of the pandemic, including Wisconsin, where the president will hold a rally later tonight. In fact, the infection rate, the positivity rate, is somewhere up above 20 percent right now.

He is also in Michigan today, a state that's also reporting a record number of cases. In fact, take a look at how those cases are climbing in Michigan.

Also on the rise, the number of early ballots cast in this election. Americans are voting early in record numbers. More than 22 million have voted so far. And while requests for mail-in ballots are in high demand, in part, due to the pandemic, President Trump's sustained attacks on vote by mail, plus the overhauls to the Postal Service, have inspired so many people to vote early in-person. Let me take you to Georgia, these images from this morning where some people lined up for three or four hours to cast their ballots. We'll have much more on the ground there in Georgia in a moment.

But, first, CNN's Joe Johns joins us from Michigan, where President Trump is just about to participate in this rally. You can see how many are gathered behind Joe. Tell us what you're expecting to hear from the president in his closing message to voters there.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, it's anybody's guess what the president says because so much of his extemporaneous (INAUDIBLE). The president's closing message, generally, has been a work in progress. It's been a little all over the place, quite frankly. The president has been looking for something that will stick to Joe Biden, but at the same time appeal to women in the suburbs, white women, as well as older voters that he's also trying to find a message that works on coronavirus because coronavirus and the economy are the top two things that voters seem to be worried about.

As you mentioned there at the top, the president is telling people at his rallies that the country is rounding the corner, but here in Michigan is one example where it's not. Yesterday, we had 2,000 new cases. Today, we had something like 1,800. These are bad numbers in a state where coronavirus has been a real problem, not rounding the corner at all, Ana.

CABRERA: Okay. So, I know you've been talking to some of the supporters who have shown up for this rally, Joe. Do attendees tonight appear to be taking very many precautions against the virus?

JOHNS: Well, you know, it's a mixed bag of some of this and some of that. This crowd behind me, we've been trying to get a beat on it, if you look closely, it doesn't look like 100 percent of the people are wearing masks, not even 50 percent. We're guessing about 40 percent, and that's just a ballpark.

Now, the governor did put out a statement advising people to wear masks and to practice social distancing. That hasn't happened for the most part here at this rally so far. And we did see though, there was a table when people were coming into this rally today. At that table, they had both hand sanitizer as well as masks. A lot of people were picking up the hand sanitizer but not a lot of people were picking up the masks. So, that's the situation.

And as you can see, the president is just pulling up here in the plane designated today as Air Force One. And it's one of the smaller planes that they use to get into smaller airports. So, Ana, this is about to begin.

CABRERA: Okay. And we know that this is taking place near the Muskegan County Airport, so he's going to hop off the plane and get right over talk to these supporters. We'll keep an eye on this and bring any highlights, of course, to our viewers. Joe Johns, thank you.

In an interview on Fox Business this week, President Trump said this about the Michigan governor, Gretchen Whitmer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They ought to open up the states. That's the other thing with the Democrats, maybe more important, open up the states.

[17:05:03]

We're winning a lot of lawsuits about that. Michigan, she has to open up. She wants to be a dictator in Michigan. And the people can't stand her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: With us now is the Michigan attorney general, Dana Nessel. And those comments are just the latest attack from the president on your state's governor, who was the subject of an alleged domestic terror kidnapping plot. Governor Whitmer specifically pointed to President Trump's rhetoric in her response to this alleged plot. The president, as we just mentioned, will soon be rallying supporters in your state. Do you have any concerns?

DANA NESSEL (D), MICHIGAN ATTORNEY GENERAL: I have nothing but concerns. And we had the largest number of new COVID cases just in the last week as we've had since the beginning of the pandemic. And this president has done what he always does, which is to care more about himself than he cares about the residents of our state or frankly any state in the nation. It's totally irresponsible, and it shows that he does not care about the safety or the welfare of the people of our state.

CABRERA: Regarding the threat to the Michigan governor, Democratic Presidential Nominee Joe Biden said this at an event yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Planning to blow up a bridge on American soil to threaten the lives of police officers, to kidnap an elected leader, and now we're finding out the same thing was happening in Virginia. You know, it's the sort of behavior you might expect from ISIS, and it shouldn't shock the consciousness of every American, every American. And the failure to condemn these folks is stunning from the outset.

And the president tweeted, liberate Michigan. Liberate Michigan. That's the call that was heard. That was the dog whistle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Attorney General, do you believe President Trump's rhetoric, like that liberate Michigan tweet is partly to blame, is partly responsible?

NESSEL: I know it is. All you have to do is look at the evidence in the case. I mean, every time the president makes a remark about our governor and calls her a dictator when she's doing nothing more than trying to save lives of people in our state, over 7,000 Michiganders have died of COVID-19 since the pandemic began. Every time he does that, instead of supporting her efforts to protect our state residents, he engages and attains attraction for these individuals who want to do harm to our state elected officials, to our law enforcement officials, and, of course, to the governor.

And if you look at where a lot of these individuals who sought to do harm to the governor, the 14 individuals, six of them charged in federal court, eight of them charged by my office, many of them met at these same rallies that were in protest of her orders that were trying to save people's lives here. And I find it to be absolutely despicable. I agree with the words of Joe Biden. And I look forward to having a commander in chief that tries his hardest to support those in our nation instead of trying to cause civil unrest and anarchy, which is exactly what he's done.

CABRERA: Your office has charged an additional person in this alleged plot to kidnap Governor Whitmer that happened this week. This additional suspect was charged with material support of an act of terrorism. Do you expect more charges to be filed?

NESSEL: I will say that anything is possible. Our investigation continues. And I think it's very important that bad actors out there that are engaged in this kind of activity, this kind of behavior, understand that whether it is the federal authorities or the state authorities that we are watching out for this kind of conduct and that people are going to be held accountable if it occurs.

I just -- I find it so unbelievable that even knowing that the governor was in jeopardy, and other public officials as well, that the president would continue on this diatribe instead of being supportive of people in positions of authority who, again, are trying to save the lives of people in our state.

And I can only imagine that this super-spreader event is only going to add to the loss of lives that we have here. And I look forward to having a president in January that actually cares about saving people's lives again instead of risking their lives.

CABRERA: As we look ahead to the Election Day, specifically, Michigan's secretary of state issued a directive Friday prohibiting open carry of firearms at voting locations on Election Day. This is something I know you support, but why is that directive necessary and do you have any fear of retaliation?

NESSEL: Well, firstly, we never thought it was necessary before. And, in fact, you know, that was not something that you would commonly see irrespective of whether or not there was guidance that was promulgated by the secretary of state.

[17:10:06]

But, unfortunately, you know, we've heard the words of the president, right? And he's talked about his people coming to the polls, and that has been a source of grave concern to us. So even though the secretary of state and myself are doing everything we can to ensure safety and security of voters at the polls and that we will not stand for any kind of threats or intimidation to our electorate, it is something that we're concerned about, and so we have to do everything we can, working with our law enforcement partners to ensure that that does not occur.

I just can't possibly imagine why anybody needs to bring a gun to the polls. And for people to be afraid when they go to vote, I mean, it's really the sign of a failed democracy, and we don't want to see that here in the state of Michigan, whether you're voting from home, whether you're dropping your ballot off at the clerk's office, or at a ballot box or whether you're voting on November 3rd in-person at the polls, we want everyone to feel safe and secure and for people to know that their vote counts.

So that's what we're trying to accomplish, but the president's rhetoric is making it very, very difficult to do that. But we are determined to make sure that people feel safe at the polls here in Michigan.

CABRERA: That's important. Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel, thank you very much for taking the time and sharing your thoughts and expert expertise with us tonight.

NESSEL: Thanks for having me.

CABRERA: Up next, the Biden campaign warning its supporters that President Trump could still very much win this race. So is this a clever way to avoid complacency or is the race truly this close, as we give you these live images of the president about to get off Air Force One tonight to rally supporters in Michigan.

Stay with us. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:15:00]

CABRERA: Welcome back.

Live pictures right now out of Michigan, the president holding his rally there despite the state seeing a concerning surge in coronavirus cases. He just took the podium, and we'll be listening in. But last hour, the state reported nearly 1,800 new cases today alone following a record day yesterday.

And Doug Brinkley is a CNN Presidential Historian, Mark McKinnon is the co-Host of the Showtime Show, The Circus, also served as the campaign advisor for both President George W. Bush and John McCain, and they join us now. Thanks for being with us, guys.

Mark, let me start with you, because the president wants this image of enthusiastic supporters, these voters who are out there. Maybe he thinks it will have a snowball effect, everyone wants to be a part of it, but are these big rallies actually helping him? Are undecided voters actually attending these rallies or being swayed by them, do you think?

MARK MCKINNON, CO-HOST, THE CIRCUS: Well, here is the big problem, Ana. The worst thing for Donald Trump in this election is for it to be a referendum on his handling of the COVID crisis. He doesn't want that to be the election. He wants it to be a choice between him and Joe Biden on any other issue but COVID. And what's happening now is he's going back into these states and he's going back into states that particularly are having spiking problems with COVID, like Wisconsin, like Michigan.

So, I mean, just as you've been reporting today, and certainly every station in Michigan and Wisconsin that are covering these rallies, they're not going to cover the rally and not mention what's happening with COVID, and also probably looking at the crowds and noting that a lot of people are not wearing masks or socially distancing. So I'd say it's like the worst of all possible worlds that he's going out, doing these rallies, doing it in states where COVID is peaking.

CABRERA: Douglas, Biden, meanwhile, has no events today. He does have an event in North Carolina tomorrow. But, today, he's sending out surrogates, Elizabeth Warren to Wisconsin, Magic Johnson to Michigan. What does this tell you, and is it surprising Biden's not on the trail himself today?

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: A little bit surprising. But, by and large, this election, as Mark was intimating, really is about COVID-19, and Donald Trump is betting that he is going to be able to win on saying, I'm the unmasked man, meaning people have been, you know, in quarantine or in their homes for months and months and months, and he's saying, if you elect Joe Biden, he'll -- it will be everybody back to the basement. I'm up there, I'm alive, I'm going to do well, and so it's odd.

I mean, he actually feels that promoting unsafe standards, going to rallies without masks or social distancing, is going to work to his benefit because of COVID-19 fatigue. Biden is shown to kind of have a steady course of just being able to -- you can imagine that he would deal with the scientists in a way that Trump didn't.

Remember, climate change, burning wildfires, Donald Trump says climate change is a hoax. And more and more, he's leading his supporters to think the novel coronavirus was a greatly exaggerated medical crisis. That's the way he's playing it.

CABRERA: We see the president defending state -- in states where he won in 2016. That's where he's campaigning. Meantime, you know, the polls also showing him trailing in some of these states nationally. Biden has been ahead consistently for some time, Mark, and yet Biden's campaign manager sent out a memo to supporters saying, in part, quote, we cannot become complacent because the very searing truth is that Donald Trump can still win this race and every indication we have shows that this thing is going to come down to the wire.

So, is this an expected sort of reverse pep talk, warning supporters not to let up, not to be complacent, or is this race really closer than we may know? MCKINNON: Well, you know, the Democrats, smartly, have PTSD from 2016 when everybody heard that they were ahead then. It's the absolute maxim of politics that you always run like you're ten points down, even if you're ten points up.

[17:20:04]

LBJ did that, as you recall, when polls were published that showed that he was not only going to win but win big, but the polls showed that, they published in newspapers, and the Johnson campaign rightly realized that that would make their voters complacent because they would have the notion, this thing is in the bag, why do I need to vote. And that's why they made the infamous daisy ad to scare the hell out of people, to say, if you don't vote, Barry Goldwater is going to get elected and have his finger on the nuclear button.

So it's a smart play by the Biden campaign to be clear to say this thing is tight, tight, tight and just repeat that message right up through the election.

CABRERA: Doug, Maryland Governor Larry Hogan, who is a moderate Republican, has been outspoken as a critic against President Trump at times. He wrote in Ronald Reagan on his ballot this year, saying he could not vote for Trump and he told The Washington Post, I know it's simply symbolic, it's not going to change the outcome in my state, but I thought it was important to just cast a vote that showed the kind of person I'd like to see in office. Doug, your reaction to that.

BRINKLEY: I think if Donald Trump loses that you'll see the Republican Party go back to saying, we're the party of Ronald Reagan. You know, Reagan has been kind of downplayed by Donald Trump. He was really the golden person of the Republican Party and suddenly he seems second tier. But without Donald Trump, and you're seeing Senator Sasse doing the same thing, basically reclaiming the rebranded Republican Party for 2021 as a conservative party of Ronald Reagan.

But wasting your vote like he's doing and bragging about it, I don't find what Hogan did all that impressive.

CABRERA: Douglas Brinkley and Mark McKinnon, thanks, gentlemen, for being here. Hats off to you two. Good to have you here.

All right, after a chaotic first debate, a presidential health crisis, a controversial debate cancellation, a competing town hall, Joe Biden and Donald Trump will face off one last time. It's the final presidential debate coming up with special live coverage starting Thursday and that's Thursday night at 7:00 Eastern here on CNN.

This just in, an update on stimulus talks. CNN just learning Senate Republicans will hold a vote on a standalone payroll protection program bill on Tuesday in a separate $500 billion stimulus bill on Wednesday. Now, this is the same $500 billion Democrats blocked last month after arguing it didn't go far enough. Instead, Democrats are pushing for a stimulus bill worth more than $2 trillion.

It's unclear whether enough Democrats will change their votes this time around to advance either bill. We are told, however, that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin are planning to speak on the phone later this evening.

Coming up, with President Trump's campaign schedule showing no signs of slowing down, just how vulnerable are the people without masks at his rallies? We ask CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta to check the data. His report, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:25:00]

CABRERA: More live pictures from the president's rally in Michigan happening right now. The president has been on the road pretty much all week and his campaign aides say he wants to do even more, all before crowds like this where most don't wear masks.

The president, again, is in Michigan right now. Then he'll go to Janesville, Wisconsin, later tonight, both states facing a surge in coronavirus cases.

So, this all begs the question, just how vulnerable are the supporters who choose not to wear masks? Here is CNN's Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald J. Trump.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: For President Trump's supporters, these rallies have come to represent a show of force against fear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a 99.9 percent survival rate, and I am going to continue to live my life. I hope everybody else does too.

GUPTA: For a lot of public health experts though, these rallies also have the elements of a contagion, few masks, lots of people closely clustered together for more than 15 minutes at a time.

You can't see the virus, but what is happening during a super- spreading event?

ERIN BROMAGE, BIOLOGY PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS, DARTHMOUTH: It's a very rough analogy. But if we think of a camp fire and you have just a gentle breeze that night, not everybody sitting around that camp fire is equal in regards to the amount of virus or smoke that they're getting this their face.

GUPTA: Outdoors can be up to 20 to 30 times safer than indoors, the virus just more likely to disperse into the air. But it is still not completely safe. Again, think of that campfire smoke. It drifts and lingers and then travels wherever the wind may carry it.

But here is the problem. Definitively linking a gathering like this or this to a later spike in new infections can be challenging, especially with 50,000 people becoming infected every day.

So, to better understand the impact, CNN took a look at data from large rallies several weeks ago to see what happened to a relevant and related measure of the virus' damage, hospitalizations.

Now, as you watch this, remember, after someone is exposed, it typically takes about four weeks before they might become sick enough to require hospitalization.

June 20th, Tulsa, Oklahoma, an indoor rally, here was the situation going into that weekend in Tulsa. On that particular day, there were 197 hospitalizations in the state. On July 8th, two and a half weeks later, the Tulsa Department of Health held a press conference.

[17:30:02]

BRUCE DART, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, TULSA HEALTH DEPARTMENT: The past two days, we've had almost 500 cases. And we knew we had several large events over -- a little over two weeks ago, which is about right. So, I guess we just connect the dots.

GUPTA: And then five weeks after the rally, the number of hospitalizations is at 625, more than triple what it was on June 20th.

June 23rd, Phoenix, Arizona, just days after that stop in Tulsa, President Trump held another indoor event, this time Phoenix.

When he visited around 2,000 people were being hospitalized daily in Arizona, though the number was already rising.

Fast forward 10 days, and that number shoots up to more than 3,000 cases daily. And that's maintained over the next three weeks.

August 17th, Oshkosh, Wisconsin. Take a look at what happened after the president visited Oshkosh on August 17th, this time outside.

Five weeks later, the number of hospitalizations rising by nearly 20 percent and continues its upward climb.

Now, as far as the recent rallies go, Florida, Pennsylvania, and Iowa, well, they've all been within the last few weeks so we may not have seen the impact on hospitalizations as of yet.

ERIN BROMAGE, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF BIOLOGY, UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS, DARTMOUTH: There's no doubt that there has been transmission at the protests, the political rallies. It's just a fact that the virus doesn't discriminate. It will find a new host in a crowd that's there.

If you're gathering together in a large group of people, there has almost certainly been transmission.

It is impossible, very difficult, to visualize that transmission or document that transmission when there are so many people attending these events and then they scatter back out into their communities. GUPTA: The president's heading to Janesville, Wisconsin, about an hour

away from where this 530-bed field hospital was erected earlier this week. A foreshadowing of what may be to come.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Our thanks to Dr. Sanjay Gupta for that reporting.

As we watch coronavirus numbers tick up across the country, how much of a role are schools playing? The answer might surprise you.

Stay with us. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:36:17]

CABRERA: Two days after in-person learning began at a high school in Georgia, six COVID cases were reported, forcing the Fulton County school to go back to online learning yesterday.

But with the cases again rising across the country, and experts bracing for a new wave, a new peak headed to the U.S., new findings indicate schools may be an unexpected bright spot.

Emily Oster, one of the data scientists involved in the research, writes in "The Atlantic":

"Our data on almost 200,000 kids in 47 states from the last two weeks of September revealed an infection rate of 0.13 percent among students. Even in high-risk areas of the country, the student rates were well under 0.5 percent."

And Emily Oster joins us now. She's an economist at Brown University. Also with us, emergency physician at Brown, Dr. Megan Ranney.

Great to have you ladies here.

And as a parent myself, I'm really interested to hear about what you have learned.

Emily, when some children began returning to schools in August, parents and medical experts, we all feared in-person classes would lead to a big spike in cases.

And the social media photos of the packed hallways further stoked those fears.

But your data says that really hasn't happened. Break it down for us.

DR. EMILY OSTER, PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS, BROWN UNIVERSITY: Yes, so I think really what we're seeing in our data is we're seeing relatively low rates.

And we're seeing rates and patterns that are reflecting the communities. So it's looking like the cases are -- some people are coming to school, there are people with COVID at schools.

But they really seem to be coming from the communities we're not seeing a lot of large outbreaks in schools.

So, a professor at Emory University School of Medicine called your findings encouraging. But says there's significant bias in the results.

Saying, "Schools that choose to report are often those not only that are tracking carefully, have mitigation strategies and plans, but probably have better outcomes."

So, Emily, COVID data from schools, it really has not been -- it's been a little bit inconsistent, I guess, I should say. Some states like Florida don't release school numbers.

So I guess how do you respond to this comment?

OSTER: So, I think it's absolutely right that our data would be better if there were more of it. And we're continuing to enroll schools. And we're hoping to enroll whole states and to improve that aspect of the data.

But I will say I think that our data is very consistent with what we're seeing from a lot of other places, even with them reporting a bit different, small numbers of cases in individual schools, not really large outbreaks. More needs to be done.

And I think we also need to understand better the patterns of mitigation that are contributing to these rates.

Our schools are taking a lot of mitigation factors. And I think that that is the way we're going to have to go if we want to open schools safely.

CABRERA: Dr. Ranney, you say these findings are exactly why you've chosen to send your kids back to in-person learning at public school.

But how much of that decision should depend on local factors like school size, classroom size, community positivity rate?

DR. MEGAN RANNEY, EMERGENCY ROOM PHYSICIAN & ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, BROWN UNIVERSITY: Yes, Ana, there's a lot of this decision making that does depend on some local factors.

Local levels of community spread of COVID-19 are one of the most important factors in deciding whether or not it's safe to send kids back to school.

And the reason for that is not because the kids are necessarily going to be spreading the virus between each other in school. As Dr. Oster's data has shown, there's not a lot of data showing that kids actually do that.

But rather, if you have a high community level of COVID-19, you're just going to have a lot of people, both kids and teachers, coming to school who are already infected.

And you're going to end up having to shut down the school anyhow, so you may as well put the kids in great distance learning programs.

The second thing is making sure there's universal mask wearing. As your special with Dr. Gupta just talked about, mask-wearing is one of the best tools that we have to prevent spread of this infection.

[17:40:05]

And so if the kids and the teachers are all wearing masks, all the time in school, you can feel pretty sure that, even if one kid or one teacher happens to be infected, that it's not going to spread.

CABRERA: So, Emily, what did your findings indicate about mask-wearing in schools? Does it matter the age of the child wearing the masks?

OSTER: So, almost all of our schools, 90 percent of the schools in our data, have mask-wearing, which is great. When you do cut the data by masks, you see higher rates in the places where there are not masks.

And I guess the other thing to say is that, in general, elementary schools are lower risk than high schools. And as we get more data, I think we'll be able to understand a bit better how masks interact with that.

But I think that Megan -- I would exactly echo Megan that I think it is not difficult to have all the kids and all the staff wear masks.

My 5-year-old wears a mask for the entire day at school and he doesn't seem to have any issues and neither do the other kids that he's with.

And I think we need to keep pushing on that prevention effort.

CABRERA: It's becoming -- it's about -- it's becoming a habit, which makes a big difference, too.

Dr. Ranney, the other issue I want to ask you about is testing because the CDC initially blasted the idea of mandatory testing in schools.

It is something New York City has started to do. And many universities are doing it as well.

Should schools do mandatory testing?

RANNEY: So, I think that doing mandatory testing of kids and teachers at school on a random, ongoing basis is certainly a good idea.

It can help us pick up those hot spots or those outbreaks early, knowing that especially, within kids, kids are likely to be asymptomatic spreaders.

If we do random testing, we can identify those little clusters before they start to spread.

The trouble, of course, is that there simply is not enough testing available. Even hospitals across the country are still lacking adequate access to rapid tests.

If we had ample tests and they were cheap, I would say that every school should be doing it.

But, gosh, Ana, we still have school nurses who can't get personal protective equipment or masks for their kids. And that's the most important thing before we start talking about testing.

CABRERA: I also worry about, again, the colder weather and moving everybody more indoors for all activities.

Dr. Ranney, we know schools in Germany are reportedly opening windows for 20 minutes at a time to improve ventilation and children are bringing blankets to stay warm.

Do you think that's effective and something we should consider doing here as we move into these colder months?

RANNEY: Absolutely. Ventilation plays a huge part in the spread of the virus.

So if you have kids or teachers who are not masked and who are sick, if you have good ventilation, it can help get the virus out of the school building and minimize the risk of infection.

If you go back to the flu pandemic of 1918, we had open-air schools at that time, which helped to minimize spread and keep kids healthy.

The trouble, of course, is, here in the U.S., we're also facing an epidemic of gun violence.

And I know that my kids' own school has spent a lot of money in the last few years to make their school as safe as possible to prevent the risk of school shooters.

And so as we're weighing the risk of COVID versus the potential for school shootings, it puts teachers and administrators in a really tough spot when you start talking about doing outdoor classrooms or opening windows.

So, what many of us are recommending is doing the best they can to improve their ventilation systems and then opening windows on second and third floors of buildings.

CABRERA: OK, Dr. Megan Ranney and Professor Emily Oster, great to have you here. Thank you so much for your insights and expertise.

OSTER: Thank you.

RANNEY: Thank you.

[17:43:38]

CABRERA: Coming up, are the Russians urging Rudy Giuliani to feed misinformation to President Trump? The troubling new report that the White House was warned. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:48:29]

CABRERA: Federal authorities are now investigating whether recently published e-mails that purport to detail the business dealings of Joe Biden's son are actually part of an ongoing Russian disinformation campaign.

The e-mails about Hunter Biden's work in Ukraine and China were published in stories by "The "New York Post," that CNN has not been able to verify.

Now, "The Post" says it got them from two Trump confidantes, his now- indicted former chief strategist, Steve Bannon, and his personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani.

In addition, "The Washington Post" reports the White House and Trump personally were warned last year that Giuliani was being used to feed Russian misinformation to the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, PERSONAL ATTORNEY TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: No one in the Trump administration warned me. No one in the Intelligence Community warned me. The president didn't say that to me. This is the first time I'm hearing that.

UNIDENTIFIED FOX HOST: Right.

GIULIANI: And I have a pretty good idea of where it's coming from. And these are people who are trying to tear down Donald Trump and destroy his presidency.

UNIDENTIFIED FOX HOST: And Mr. Mayor --

(CROSSTALK)

GIULIANI: -- From inside the Intelligence Community, of which there are many.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: So, this brings us to your weekend presidential brief with CNN national security analyst, Samantha Vinograd. She's also a former senior advisor to the National Security advisor in the Obama administration.

Sam, what more do we know about Giuliani in this whole situation?

SAMANTHA VINOGRAD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Ana, Giuliani is as good of a liar as he is a patriot. At this point, it is clear that Rudy Giuliani may be a Russian asset.

And I am not alone in that assessment. We know that Rudy Giuliani checks all the right boxes when it comes to being a prime target for a foreign intelligence service. He has access. He has influence. And he has manipulation points.

[17:50:08]

Plus, his specific behavior raises real red flags. I'm specifically referencing his ongoing contacts with pro-Russian Ukrainians, including a known Russian intelligence agent.

And the fact that he moonlights as a mouthpiece for Russian misinformation on multiple occasions.

The FBI shared these concerns. They started a counterintelligence probe into Giuliani in 2019.

And as you mentioned, they warned the White House that Rudy Giuliani could be feeding the president of the United States Russian misinformation.

Yet, despite all of this, Rudy is still at it. He is still meddling propaganda that is suspected of having links to Russian intelligence, like these alleged Hunter Biden details.

And overall, he's been very nonplused by these very serious allegations.

That's likely because he knows that the president isn't bothered by his behavior. Instead, he had good reason to believe the president condones this.

CABRERA: So if Giuliani is a counterintelligence concern, what more can the FBI do?

VINOGRAD: Well, the FBI has been consistently warning the president about his friend and family list for years.

Back in 2016, the FBI warned the Trump campaign about counterintelligence threats. Trump didn't change his behavior.

The special counsel report laid out in detail the ways in which the campaign was targeted. Trump didn't change his behavior.

And the FBI directly warned President Trump that Giuliani was potentially a Russian asset. And Trump didn't change his behavior.

This case, Ana, it's important to note that a failure to change his own behavior by President Trump risks the president becoming a willing participant in a Russian influence operation.

That brings us to a harsh reality. The president of the United States doesn't seem to care if his inner circle, as himself, become Russian assets just as long as he gets some perceived personal gain.

I don't think the FBI ever could have conceptualized a situation like this. It is really uncharted territory.

CABRERA: During a town hall Thursday night, Sam, President Trump again failed to denounce the fringe QAnon conspiracy theory group. What are the national security implications here?

VINOGRAD: Ana, this makes me sick. The FBI has specifically labeled QAnon as a domestic terrorism threat. And the president is serving as their cheerleader.

He didn't just fail to disavow QAnon. He praised them, just like he did back in August.

QAnon has every reason to think the president is supportive of their efforts. This could incite more violence.

This is part of a larger pattern, though. President Trump consistently feigns ignorance about threat streams that support him, whether it's QAnon, the Proud Boys or Russia, and then pivots to praising them.

The method to all of these maligned actors is that the president will have their back just as long as they have his.

This could lead to more violence by any bad actor as long that is a remember to plug the president.

At this point, it really feels like every time the president opens his mouth, he is endangering Americans.

CABRERA: Sam Vinograd, as always, thank you.

VINOGRAD: Thank you.

CABRERA: Since 2014, "CNN Hero" Carol Rosenstein has been using music to help people battling dementia, Parkinson's and other diseases.

So when COVID hit, she moved her organization's programing online. And their work has become more crucial than ever.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAROL ROSENSTEIN, CNN HERO: COVID just makes this doubly difficult for people to sustain their levels of wellness. Because they've got so much isolation going on, we are going to see people deteriorating faster.

(SINGING)

ROSENSTEIN: But we can provide a great substitute that is going to keep us healthy and well during quarantine.

(SINGING)

ROSENSTEIN: Music is medicine for the mind.

(SINGING)

ROSENSTEIN: The complexity excites so many senses in our brain. All of that excitement, miraculously pushes neurotransmitters that help us function. (SINGING)

ROSENSTEIN: Medicine with a side effect that is pure joy.

Where is my Kleenex?

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Does that make you feel good or what? I was grooving along there.

If you want to see more, Anderson Cooper has the full story about Carol's work using music to impact the COVID isolation. Just go to CNNheroes.com right now.

And that does it for me this evening. I'm Ana Cabrera. I'll see you back here tomorrow starting at 4:00 Eastern.

[17:54:58]

For now, I'll turn it over to my colleague, Wolf Blitzer, who picks up our coverage with a special edition of "THE SITUATION ROOM" after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)