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Experts Warn Of Pandemic Fatigue As COVID-19 Cases Surge; 28M Ballots Already Cast With 15 Days To Go Until Election Day; Trump Attacks Dr. Fauci On Call With Campaign Staff. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired October 19, 2020 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

DR. RICHARD ORLANDI, CHIEF MEDICAL DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF UTAH: It's a perfect crisis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They've only got problems with ICU units here in Salt Lake City. In fact, on Friday, they were at 104 percent capacity. Excuse me, the numbers have now come down somewhat. But they know that that's because of the weekend.

They really do fear that with the fall now sitting in with people being in closer contact with one another, and especially with the holidays coming, that there are going to be real problems here in Utah, a state which up until now had managed to avoid the worst of it but as of this week now is finding itself right in the thick of it, John.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Yes. As to many partners across the country, right in the thick of it again, Martin Savidge, grateful for the live reporting, grateful you're on the scene of a big developing story for us right now.

And we are now months into this pandemic. It is a giant public health test, including in the here and now. It's also a bit of a psychology test, a mental health challenge, if you will. Our next guest writes this, told this to "The New York Times" in the spring, it was fear and a sense of, we are all in it together. Things are different now. Fear has really been replaced with fatigue.

Those words from Vaile Wright, the senior director of Health Care Innovation at the American Psychological Association, grateful for your time today, I want you to help understand the challenge, as the way you put this. Back at the beginning, it was like, wow, we're all in this together. We have a challenge. But now this fatigue, how inevitable is it? And what does it do to human behavior in the sense that you're still being told to wear a mask? You're still being told to social distance? But you're tired of it?

VAILE WRIGHT, SR. DIRECTOR, HEALTH CARE INNOVATION AT AMERICAN PSYCHOLOGICAL ASSOCIATION: Yes, I think back in the spring, it really felt like an acute stressor. And we all had a hard pivot to figure out how to buy groceries, how did eLearn, how to work from home if you are lucky enough to do so. I don't think anybody at that time had any sense of just how long this was going to take in that level of fear is not sustainable.

And the problem with it, of course, is that the fear is what promoted us to do the healthy behaviors we needed to do. Without that fear, when we're tired, you know, we just, we stopped caring, we become complacent, and then we put ourselves and others at risk.

KING: And you say put ourselves and others at risk. I'm just -- I'm really fascinated by the question of how the human mind works and how it processes data as it gets more tired or tired of it. The fatigue as you say, because if you look at our polling, then we ask the question is the worst behind us with the coronavirus outbreak. Back in April, only 17 percent said that, in June was about 47 percent. It's now up to 48 percent. So about half of America thinks the worst is behind us. The numbers tell us it is not.

But is it that people process it differently in the sense that they've learned how to shop, they've learned how to eLearn, they've learned how to work from home? Is it that they've just OK, I know how to do this now. So I'm not as worried about it? Or is some of it denial, I just can't deal with it anymore. So I'm going to say it's better.

WRIGHT: It's a little bit of variety different things. I do think people have a lot of the routines down. And so it doesn't that sort of acute stress is no longer there. It's been replaced with chronic stress. And although the numbers are just astounding with the number of people who have COVID, it's still possible be in this country and not actually have any personal experience with the disease. Either you haven't gotten it or you don't know anybody who's gotten it.

And when we don't have personal experience, it becomes easier to see -- it seems like it's not there, it doesn't seem real, it seems invisible. And that's almost problematic in the sense because it's that personal connection that often drives our behavior.

KING: Well, what do we know about behavior at a time of crisis in terms of, is there a pattern or is it more scattered of where people get their cues? Do you take it from people live in your home, from your family members? Do you take it if its health related from your doctor? Do you take it from political leaders? How does the brain work when it is worried or fearful, or now fatigued, and it's looking for help?

WRIGHT: Yes, when things are uncertain, we do seek out information from a variety of sources. One of the most powerful sources, unfortunately, or fortunately, is social media. One of the challenges with that is that we all kind of curate our social media to have followers or follow people that believe similar to how we feel.

And when that information gets repeated over and over again, that's how we start to believe it. So if we're seeing things about how to protect ourselves and how COVID is real and hearing stories of people suffering, then we're more likely I think, to take it seriously. Then if we're hearing stories of people saying that they don't believe that it's real.

KING: Vaile Wright, grateful for your insights. So it's really fascinating. Thank you so much.

WRIGHT: Thanks for having me.

KING: Thank you.

WRIGHT: Thanks.

[12:34:22]

KING: Up next for us, more states now beginning early voting today, as turnout continues to just shatter records.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Six more states began early voting today in a campaign that is already shattering records. Look at that number, more than 28 million ballots cast already in the 2020 election. That's according to a survey of election officials by CNN Edison Research, and Catalist. Catalist is a data company that provides data analytics and other services to Democrats, academics, and nonprofit issue advocacy organizations.

In person voting begins today as I noted six states Alaska, Arkansas, Colorado, Idaho, North Dakota, and some counties in Florida. This is earlier today in Jacksonville, Florida. Look at that. It's remarkable. You see the line snake around as residents wait and wait and wait patiently to vote.

[12:40:02]

Let's bring in CNN's Kristen Holmes, she's helping us keep track of this early voting, mail-in balloting, and all things challenging in this pandemic election. Kristen?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John. It's really extraordinary what we're seeing in Florida. And while it is just some of the counties, it is some of the most critical counties. We're talking about Broward County, Miami Dade, those counties that we end up talking about on election night, and in the days following it.

And I want to show you some video here. This is from over the weekend, in the battleground state of Georgia. Look at these incredible lines here. This is a state that has seen 152 percent increase in voter turnout from the same time back in 2016. Now, as we are seeing all this enthusiasm people heading to the polls, we are learning that Democrats are preparing for a variety of scenarios, some likely some unlikely on Election Day, and in the days afterwards.

And I want to go through what exactly we have learned. Essentially, the scenario does fall into one of two categories. One is President Trump disputing the election either in court or on Capitol Hill. And the other one falls into this idea that Biden wins and President Trump says that the results aren't real, that it was rigged. And then again, disputes and refuses a peaceful transfer of power.

Now, and the first one as we know, the campaign, the Biden campaign has sent out hundreds of lawyers all across the country, and they're preparing for any sort of situation, including we've learned a Bush v. Gore 2000 situation despite the fact that election officials say that is highly unlikely.

Now you have another set of Democratic lawmakers up on Capitol Hill who are studying these arcane election laws just in case this ends up in their lap come November 4th or in the days afterwards. Now, when it comes to the idea of President Trump saying that this is rigged or fraud, the big concern for Democrats is all about their messaging. They have a worry that they don't have enough horsepower to compete with President Trump and his Twitter feed.

And so because of that they're working with these social media companies to try and discourage any sort of premature announcement of an election winner ahead of time. And you're also seeing them double down on this messaging. I want to pull this up here. This was a from a report from Senate Democrats on what to expect on Election Day.

It says, despite the President's false claims, according to the leading election experts in our country is nearly fraud, excuse me, leading expert, election experts in our country, fraud is nearly nonexistent. In some states, we may not know the winner on election night. That's okay. And that is something we have heard from election officials across the country they want to stress to people just because we don't have the answers, doesn't mean the system isn't working.

KING: Amen. It's more than OK. If we don't know on election night, we'll just keep counting the votes until we do know. And the math is what matters in the end. And we'll try to shove aside the chaos. And Kristen Holmes will help us all the way. Kristen, thank you so much for the reporting there.

And I want to add this, word this hour, the First Lady Melania Trump will make a very rare campaign trail stop Tuesday in Pennsylvania, her first on the trail in more than a year. The President's children routinely campaign on his behalf.

The First Lady, though, has been a notable exception. Melania Trump did give an August speech at the Republican Convention. That event held at the White House, but she has not been out on the campaign trail for an appearance since June 2019. That was at the President's reelection kickoff event in Florida.

[12:43:22]

Up next for us, Dr. Anthony Fauci issuing a new warning on a potential coronavirus vaccine.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) KING: President Trump taking time today on a campaign call with campaign staffers to attack Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease expert. The President telling staff on that campaign call, quote, people are saying whatever, just leave us alone.

They're tired of it. People are tired of hearing Fauci and all these idiots. Fauci is a nice guy. He's been here for 500 years. Fauci is a disaster. If I listened to him, we'd have 500,000 deaths. That's the President of the United States mocking his top infectious disease expert.

With me now, our senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen, we all have to choose how to spend our time, Elizabeth, the President decided to mock criticize, call it idiot, and a disaster. Again, I'm not saying Dr. Fauci is always right, but he's given more than 40 years of his life to this.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, John, we all know that when President Trump feels vulnerable, he leashes out, he attacks.

He's attacking someone who, as you said, not perfect, but has saved countless lives by telling us to wear masks, by encouraging social distancing, by speaking truth to the President's life, to the President's lives. Dr. Fauci has saved lives. He's been doing this job since 1984. He served six presidents because guess what, when you do your job, well, you get to keep it, John.

KING: And Dr. Fauci, to mention Dr. Fauci, he was giving an address taking some questions earlier today and I understand he made some news when it comes to the race for a vaccine.

COHEN: He did, actually he said something that was accurate. So gosh, let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: One of the problems we'll face is getting people to take the vaccine. It would be a terrible shame if we have and I think we will have a safe and effective vaccine, but we're not able to widely distribute it particularly for those who need it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:50:01]

COHEN: And the problem here is that is, as I said, this is accurate. And the problem here is that this is a problem partly of President Trump's making. When you call your vaccine effort, Operation Warp Speed, that's a problem, it makes people think that you're going too quickly. When your administration and the drug companies keep certain things secret, it makes people get very suspicious. So that really is the problem.

I mean, I think it's very clear to the experts that I speak to, that we likely will have a safe and effective vaccine. The issue is, will people take it? Poll after poll shows that many Americans are very hesitant. One recent poll showing that 30 percent of white people don't want to take it, 50 percent of black people don't want to take it, and unfortunately, John, those numbers have gotten worse over time.

KING: And the President is just called an idiot and a disaster, the scientist is absolutely critical to helping all of us think it might be safe. The drama continues. Elizabeth Cohen, grateful for the important reporting there.

Up next for us in early COVID-19 success story in Europe now reporting one of its highest infection rates.

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[12:55:14]

KING: The Czech Republic now among those in Europe facing a dangerous wave of new coronavirus infections. Once in early success story among European countries, the Czech Republic now has one of the highest infection rates on the continent. Despite that, the government says for now it will hold off ordering a full lockdown as it tries to deal with protests against further restrictions, that and more now from international correspondents around the world.

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BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Ben Wedeman in Naples in the Campania region of Southern Italy. This was an area largely spared in the first wave of coronavirus here in Italy. But now this region has the second highest number of active COVID-19 cases in the country. Schools and universities have been closed in this region. So there is cause for concern.

But it's important to point out what has changed. Unlike in the past, testing is now easily and widely available to anyone. And the number of patients nationwide in intensive care is just around a fifth of it was earlier this year. Now Sunday evening, Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte announced new measures to try to slow this latest surge of cases. The focus of those measures is reducing social gatherings with an emphasis on nightlife.

Clearly, there is no appetite at this point to repeat the more than two month crushing nationwide lockdown that nonetheless succeeded at stopping the first wave of coronavirus here in Italy.

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN REPORTER: I'm Salma Abdelaziz in Manchester where we finally have a breakthrough after days long standoff between authorities here in Manchester and the central government in London over their plans to raise the coronavirus alert level of the city to very high.

The mayor of Greater Manchester Andy Burnham says he has held constructive talks with senior officials. We've also heard from one official from Prime Minister Boris Johnson's government that the city will be offered a larger financial package to help affected businesses.

Now what the mayor actually wanted to see was a nationwide lockdown. He's not the only one. The country's scientific advisors have also called for the same. Now Prime Minister Boris Johnson's government's response to those calls has been a resounding no. Instead, they've been implementing this three tier regional system.

Now we do understand that talks are expected to continue today. The government says it is hopeful that a resolution will be reached soon. But while officials beaker city by city, town by town over these restrictions, the virus continues to spread. Downing Street says that the Greater Manchester region could run out of ICU capacity in a matter of weeks.

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Oren Liebermann in Jerusalem where PLO Secretary General and Chief Negotiator Saeb Erekat is in critical condition. He is on a ventilator and is under general anesthesia according to Hadassah Medical Center in Jerusalem, where he's being treated.

He was brought to the hospital on Sunday afternoon in serious but stable condition, who's taken from his home in Jericho with Coronavirus and brought to the hospital to receive further treatment. The hospital says he got through the night OK. But on Monday morning, his condition began to deteriorate. And again he remains, at this point, in critical condition.

His office, the negotiations Affairs Department of the PLO says he tested positive for coronavirus about a week and a half ago. He's a high risk case because he had a lung transplant in the U.S. in 2017. Meanwhile, coronavirus numbers across the region in terms of the absolute value in the Palestinian territories, there were less than 400 new cases. The trouble is the positivity rate stands at 11.5 percent according to the Ministry of Health.

In Israel, there were 892 new cases yesterday according the Ministry of Health data, with the positivity rate in the mid to low single digits, that is a positive sign as Israel begins to come out of its second general lockdown.

SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Selina Wang in Hong Kong. While the world is dealing with the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, China's economy grew 4.9 percent in the third quarter.

In fact, China will be the only major economy to grow this year. Compare that to the U.S. economy which is expected to shrink more than 4 percent this year and the Eurozone, which is forecast to contract more than 8 percent. This is a reminder that until a country has contained COVID-19 the economy cannot recover and there are no shortcuts.

So far China's strategy of mass testing, contact tracing, and restrictions appears to have worked. People are spending again with retail sales growing more than 3 percent in September. But like other countries, the pandemic has also disproportionately affected China's poor. Millions of people lost their jobs in China during the pandemic and

China's numbers do not give us the full picture of how many people are still jobless. Chinese growth also faces risks from high unemployment in further trade tensions with the U.S.

[13:00:07]

Selina Wang, CNN, Hong Kong.