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Study: Desk Arrangement, Glass Shields Help Cut Classroom Virus Spread; NIH Director Says "Very Unlikely" Vaccine Ready Before Late November; Trump Calls SCOTUS Ruling on PA Mail-In Ballots "Very Strange"; Melania Trump Cancels Travel to Rally, Cites COVID Recovery; Biden Adviser: Biden Preparing for Trump to "Bully & Deflect" and Attack His Family in Debate; Obamacare Premiums Decline for 3rd Year in Row as Trump Looks to Kill; State Rep. and Speaker Steve Haugaard (R-Sioux Falls, SD) Discusses His Personal Battle With Coronavirus. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired October 20, 2020 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

DR. ROSHINI RAJ, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE, NYU LANGONE HEALTH & CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "HEALTH" MAGAZINE: But remember, you know, this was a very sort of rarified situation where the desks were very far apart. As you said, almost eight feet apart, so more than six feet we generally talk about.

And there were only nine students in the classroom when they did the simulation.

How practical this is for most schools around the country? That is not clear. But there are some interesting and important learnings from it.

Ventilation was very important. It showed it can make a difference in how many virus particles will stay in the classroom as opposed to exiting through the windows.

Windows absolutely should be open whenever possible.

But they also stress that hand washing is going to be very important still with all of the measures because you do still have significant amount of virus staying in the classroom, even with the best measures.

The glass shields were also found to be effective. That was another point that I think schools will take into account.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Yes. It is so hard to hear these recommendations when they're talking about windows. A lot of classrooms don't have windows that open. That isn't even an option for them.

I want to talk vaccines with you because Dr. Francis Collins, the NIH director, firmed up the vaccine timeline on NPR today. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, NIH DIRECTOR (voice-over): Many uncertainties here. But I am guardedly optimistic that we will have, by the end of the year, one or more of these that will pass this very high standard of safety and efficacy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably not in the next couple of weeks, though, we would assume, right?

COLLINS: I would think it is very unlikely given the timetables and standards that have to be followed that you will hear about emergency use authorization before late November at the earliest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Does this make you feel more confident about the safety of the vaccine when it's ready? And if approval happened before then, is that something you might be skeptical about?

RAJ: Well, it gives me confidence that the top leaders and scientists in the country are being cautious and saying we're going to wait as long as it takes until we have a safe and effective vaccine.

If they actually, by a lot of good luck, are able to make that declaration earlier than the end of November, I would trust them and have confidence in what they're saying.

But the truth is it is very unlikely, as he just said, because there has to be so much data that needs to be collated. And really all the side effects potentially need to be explained or understood. It will take some time.

If he's saying end of November is the soonest, that's, I think, a realistic, even optimistic, perhaps, point of view. If we could get it by end of the year, we should consider ourselves lucky.

KEILAR: Yes.

Dr. Raj, it's great to see you. Thank you.

RAJ: Thank you.

KEILAR: Good news for Americans who are purchasing their insurance on Obamacare exchanges, even as the president tries to kill the law without a replacement for it.

And a Republican lawmaker in South Dakota is battling COVID and he says it is the most devastating thing he has been through. He is going to join us live.

And another FOX host pedals a new baseless smear against Joe Biden. We'll roll the tape.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:37:42] KEILAR: Fourteen days to Election Day. The final debate is 48 hours away. Joe Biden is in Delaware, off the campaign trail. President Trump tonight holds a rally in the critical battleground state of Pennsylvania.

The president's visit follows a Supreme Court ruling that Pennsylvania's mail-in ballots can be counted if they're received up to three days after the election, even if they don't have a legible postmark.

The president, not happy about it this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (voice-over): We got a ruling yesterday that was ridiculous, where they can count ballots after the election is over.

What kind of thing. What does that mean?

UNIDENTIFIED FOX HOST: John Roberts.

TRUMP: We're going to wait until after November 3rd and start announcing states? It's crazy.

But we got a strange ruling from the Supreme Court yesterday. It was very strange.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Kaitlan Collins is our White House correspondent. She is in Erie, Pennsylvania ahead, of the president's campaign stop there tonight. And M.J. Lee, our political correspondent, is covering the story from Wilmington, Delaware.

Kaitlan, to you first.

Melania Trump was supposed to join the president. Now she is not. What happened?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we just got a statement from her chief of staff saying that the first lady will not be joining the president here in Pennsylvania today as scheduled to do.

She said in the statement it is out of abundance of caution. But she did say Melania Trump still has a lingering cough after her recent bout with coronavirus, of course, which she announced last week that she tested negative for.

And said she pursued a much different treatment route than the president did.

Instead, not taking any of those aggressive treatments that the president took, that steroid and the antibody treatment from Regeneron. And instead relied on herbs and teas and vitamins, she said, for her treatment. But she will not be coming here to Pennsylvania.

And this is noteworthy, Brianna. It would have been the first time we saw Melania Trump joining the president on the campaign trail since 2019 when there was a rally to kick off the president's re-election swing last year. She was there in Florida. We were there for that.

But she will not be here on the campaign trail with the president just two weeks before Election Day.

And that's notable, of course, as the president is trying to build support with suburban women voters who helped him win states like Pennsylvania in 2016. Now of course, he is trailing Joe Biden.

And they're not expected to meet again until Thursday when they're on the debate stage, given that Joe Biden is not out here campaigning in Pennsylvania.

[13:40:00]

So it is likely the president may reference that tonight. And also, of course, that monumental Supreme Court decision to allow the state of Pennsylvania and their counties to take the ballots up to three days after Election Day.

Something that you heard from the president he wasn't happy about on that phone interview with FOX News this morning.

But then we've also heard from surrogates as well. They do see it as a major win for Democrats.

You're seeing how Democrats are out-registering Republicans in Pennsylvania and requesting more absentee ballots by a sizable margin than Republicans are -- Brianna?

KEILAR: Kaitlan, thank you.

M.J., you have new details. Because, as we look towards the next debate, of course, both candidates should be preparing. But I know you have details on how Joe Biden is preparing.

M.J. LEE, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Brianna. This is the second day in a row that we have seen Joe Biden off the campaign trail. He is here in Wilmington, Delaware, today meeting with advisers.

And we were just talking to a Biden adviser about what the campaign is expecting heading into Thursday night. One of the things they said was that they fully expect President Trump to, quote, "bully and deflect" on the debate stage.

And also, not only is the former vice president expecting attacks on him, but he is again expecting President Trump to attack his family members as well.

Of course, in the first debate, we saw President Trump going after Joe Biden's son, Hunter Biden.

And in terms of what the Biden campaign is hoping in terms of Biden's overarching goals for debate night, they say they're not so different from the first debate.

He wants to talk directly to the American people. He obviously wants to talk a lot about COVID-19 and bringing the economy back.

As part of that, we are obviously going to see Biden, as he has been doing the last few weeks, point out the fact that President Trump has not been painting a realistic picture about how serious the virus is.

In terms of the new Debate Commission rule that was announced about muting mics for two minutes while each candidate gets two minutes to speak uninterrupted, this Biden adviser said they expect the similar kind of performance from President Trump.

And as for enforcing the rule that each principal has to get tested for COVID-19 before the debate, they said that's up to the commission and the Cleveland Clinic. We'll see what happens on that front.

Before I go, I just want to note that tomorrow we are going to see a very high-profile surrogate campaign on Biden's behalf on the campaign trail.

Former President Barack Obama is going to be in Philadelphia at a drive-in rally.

This is a kind of event that's become a signature Biden campaign event in the middle of the pandemic -- Brianna?

KEILAR: All right. We'll be watching.

M.J., Kaitlan, thank you to both of you in Pennsylvania and Delaware for us.

For the third year in a row, premiums for the benchmark plans sold through the Affordable Care Act federal exchange, it's getting cheaper.

Even as President Trump railed against Obamacare and pledged to scrap it and replace it with a new but yet-to-be-announced Republican health care plan.

His administration is taking credit for making the Obamacare plans more attractive to consumers.

I want to bring in CNN senior writer, Tami Luhby.

Tami, we're in the midst of a pandemic. There's record unemployment. Why are premiums going down?

TAMI LUHBY, CNN POLITICS SENIOR WRITER: Well, the Affordable Care Act is becoming a little bit more affordable. Premiums for 2021 will go down 2 percent, on average, for the benchmark silver plan.

Which means a 27-year-old will be paying, on average, about $379 while a family of four will be paying just under $1,500.

Now this is the third year in a row that premiums are going down. The total is 8 percent.

Why is that happening? Because when insurance first came on the market, when the market was first created in 2014, they didn't know how to price their premiums.

It ended up that people were a lot sicker than they expected and insurance lost a lot of money.

So over the first few years, they increased their premiums a lot in order to make up for the huge losses they were experiencing.

But now finally, insurers have figured out how much to charge consumers. And for the last three years, they've been dropping premiums slightly. As I said, total of 8 percent.

And they're now finding the market to be pretty attractive and, for many, profitable.

KEILAR: Can you fact-check the claim by the Trump administration that they're making this more attractive for people to purchase Obamacare? Is that true?

LUHBY: Well, in one way, they are. They have actually passed a lot -- they've approved a lot of state applications for what we call reinsurance, which shields insurers -- what we call reinsurance, which shields insurance from high-cost patients.

Through these waiver approvals, states have been able to lower the premiums for the plans. So in that respect, it is helping lower premiums.

KEILAR: Very interesting.

Tami, we will be watching with you to see what happens with Obamacare as the administration wants to dismantle it, even as there are things they're doing to make it more popular. It is very odd.

[13:45:10]

Tami, thank you very much for walking us through that.

Just ahead, a lawmaker from South Dakota is going to join me live. He's going to talk about his personal battle with coronavirus. And he says it was so bad, he went to the emergency room twice this month.

Plus, health officials in one state are blaming white people who refuse to wear masks for the big outbreaks they're seeing there. We'll have details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: The South Dakota House speaker describes his battle with coronavirus at the, quote, "most devastating stuff I have ever had." [13:50:03]

Republican Steve Haugaard is at least the second South Dakota state legislator to be diagnosed with COVID-19 since the start of the pandemic.

He is one of the more than 33,000 cases in his state of South Dakota. And as you can see, the numbers there skyrocketed in the last month.

Steve Haugaard is with us now to talk about this.

Speaker, thank you so much for joining us.

I know this has been quite the ordeal for you. You have spent the last two weeks dealing with a severe case of coronavirus. Tell us how you are feeling now.

REP. STEVE HAUGAARD (R-SD): Well, I'm thankful to be on the mend. I've been fever-free for three or four days now. And just trying to gain some strength back.

So it was about a week and a half of not eating and just enduring a fever that seemed to range anywhere from 100 to 105. So -- took its toll, but thankful to be on this side of it.

KEILAR: And what took you to the hospital twice?

HAUGAARD: Well, both times were just such exhaustion and a need for fluids. So went in a couple of times and got some I.V. fluids, and got back on track a bit.

And then the fever just ran its course. It takes so many days for the virus to run its course. And once that finally happened and I was able to get back to the point where food was an option.

KEILAR: Where food was an option so you could try to gain some of that weight back you lost.

And tell us, what were you doing around the time that you would have contracted the virus? Do you have any idea where you might have gotten it?

HAUGAARD: No. I have a law practice and also there's been a number of events that have gone on in the past month.

So I've been around dozens and hundreds of people in the past few weeks. So it's pretty hard to identify where it would have originated.

The research that I did early on, back in the spring, just to make myself aware of what this virus was all about, seemed to suggest that some DNAs are more is susceptible to it.

And then I recently read a research study that suggested that certain blood types are more vulnerable to it. And my blood type is one of those. So type "A" and -- type "A," type "B." Type "AB."

And apparently type "O" is not quite as vulnerable. But I'm sure there are exceptions to that, too.

So it just seems that it has just about zero impact on most people and has a dramatic impact on others.

KEILAR: Yes. That is certainly something researchers are looking into. They're seeing some early indications showing that that requires more study as they try to draw conclusions about that.

There's a state representative, you're aware of, Bob Glanzer, who died from the coronavirus.

Your mayor there in Sioux Falls is saying, quote, "Wear a dang mask," as he tries to get through to people that they should be wearing a mask.

Do you think that South Dakotans are getting the message about what they need to do to stay safe?

HAUGAARD: I think, nationwide, people have the understanding of what they need to do. It's just a matter of trying to apply that in all the circumstances.

Certainly, there's good compliance with those stores that require masks. And even during our special session a couple weeks ago, there was good compliance at that time as well.

So, you know, we try to be as careful as possible. But it's a virus. It's just out there. It's microscopic. So it's impossible to make sure that you've covered all your bases.

But I'm thankful for the experience. I'm thankful to be on this side of it.

So -- I think that, going forward, we need to make some better plans for what our session's going to look like in January, February. We'll be doing that in the next couple of weeks.

KEILAR: There was an estimated half a million people who attended the 10-day Sturgis Motorcycle Rally, the famous motorcycle rally in August, without restrictions.

The was a decision that Kristi Noem, your governor, decided to proceed with.

In retrospect, do you think that was a mistake?

HAUGAARD: No. I think you've got to open up the society again.

When I looked at the numbers early on, this -- you know, back in -- I think it was the time it frame of March, April of this year compared to March, April of last year, the number of mental illness calls in our county went up 130 percent.

And the number of simple assaults, ag assaults went up from 35 percent to 65 percent. The number of disorderly conducts went up 525 percent.

[13:54:59]

So there are a lot of balancing factors that you have to put into this equation. You just can't lock down society.

And probably something we might have made a mistake along the way with was locking down the schools as much as we have, especially since the vulnerability of children is pretty low.

So there are things in hindsight that we probably should have done differently.

As far as locking things down, I don't think we should.

As far as exercising reasonable protocols for those that are vulnerable, I think that's very reasonable.

And, again, I think more information the better as far as --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: And -- Speaker, on --

(CROSSTALK)

HAUGAARD: -- blood types -- yes?

KEILAR: Speaker, I think when you say -- and I understand what you're saying. I know there are a lot of factors to weigh.

And what we've heard from a lot of Americans is they're willing to accept some risk but not unmitigated risk.

Back to the issue of the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally, your state does not have a mask mandate. There was not mask-wearing, writ large, at Sturgis. It's been traced to spreading.

So I hear what you're saying about you can't lock everything down. There are people who are certainly having mental health issues.

But isn't there a way to do this in a safer way so that you don't have to totally shut down.

But you can still preserve the lives of people, you know, like your Republican colleague, like people who have suffered cases coming out of Sturgis?

HAUGAARD: Well, it's, to me, pretty hard to identify with any great degree of certainty the spread of that particular virus through the Sturgis rally.

I know I saw estimates of tens of thousands of people and I don't know that you could tie all that together.

All of those people interact with hundreds of people along the way to Sturgis. And as they got home, they interacted with others at home. So I don't think those are very reliable stats. But it's certainly reasonable to tell people what their options are and give them those options. Let them exercise those choices as responsibly as possible.

KEILAR: Speaker, I appreciate you joining us. Speaker Steve Haugaard, thank you.

HAUGAARD: Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Dr. Anthony Fauci responding to the president's attacks by quoting the "Godfather."

Plus, the race to 270. With two weeks left until the election, we're going to look at the best paths for both Joe Biden and President Trump.

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