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Fauci Restricted by White House, Attacked by Trump; Europe Tightness Virus Restrictions; Czech Republic Mandates Masks in Urban Areas; PLO Chief Negotiator Saeb Erekat in Critical Condition; U.S. COVID-19 Cases Hit 8.2M; Experts: Coronavirus Could Cause Long-Term Heart Damage; Music Artists Ask Trump to Stop Using Songs. Aired 2-3a ET
Aired October 20, 2020 - 02:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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ROBYN CURNOW, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Coronavirus cases are surging in much of the world. We'll have live reports around the globe.
Plus, in the U.K., an attempt of a second wave is being made by some resistance with one major city pushing back. A live report coming up.
In the U.S., President Trump slams Dr. Fauci, the country's most trusted infectious disease specialist, calling him a "disaster" after he bashed Trump's superspreader event. We will have the latest from the White House.
Hi, welcome to CNN. I'm Robyn Curnow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Live from CNN Center, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Robyn Curnow.
CURNOW: We are now exactly two weeks away from Election Day here in the U.S. The coronavirus death toll has now topped 220,000 people, with more than 8.2 million confirmed cases.
So instead of outlining its plan for fighting the virus in a second term, Donald Trump is resorting to name-calling, attacking the most respected medical experts, Dr. Anthony Fauci. He called him a "disaster." He said Americans are "tired of hearing Fauci and all those idiots."
Meanwhile, we have new details on Thursday's second and final presidential debate. Donald Trump and Joe Biden will have their microphones muted during parts of the contest. President Trump says he thinks it's unfair but he will take part.
Let's get the latest on the president's attack on Dr. Anthony Fauci, a member of his own Coronavirus Task Force. Here is Jim Acosta -- Jim.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: With the election day fast approaching, President Trump sounds like his running not against Democrat Joe Biden but against the man who's arguably the nation's most trusted health expert on the coronavirus, Dr. Anthony Fauci.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I don't want to hurt him. He's been there for about 350 years.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: The president his day of attacks on Fauci on a call with campaign staffers.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
TRUMP: People are tired of COVID. I have the biggest people are saying whatever. Just leave us alone. They are tired of it. People are tired of hearing Fauci and all these idiots. Fauci is a disaster. If I listened to him, we'd have 500,000 deaths.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Fauci got under the president's skin appearing on "60 Minutes" where the infectious diseases expert said he wasn't surprised when Mr. Trump contracted COVID-19.
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ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I was worried that he was going to get sick when I saw him in a completely precarious situation of crowded, no separation between people and almost nobody wearing a mask. Nothing good can come out of that. That's got to be a problem. And then sure enough it turned out to be a super spreader event.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Drawing thousands of supporters who aren't wearing masks, the president is on an anti-science crusade at his rallies, accusing Biden of siding with the experts on the virus.
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TRUMP: Biden wants to lock it down. He wants to listen to Dr. Fauci.
He'll listen to the scientists. If I listen totally to the scientists, we would right now have a country that would be in a massive depression.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Biden responded to that charge of listening to the scientists with one word on Twitter, yes. Contrast that with Fauci who said he's been muzzled by the White House. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FAUCI: You know, I think there has been a restriction, John. But it doesn't -- it isn't consistent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: The president snapped back at that remark too.
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TRUMP: He gets a lot of television. He loves being on television. We let him do it. Sometimes he says things that are a little bit off and they get built up unfortunately.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: But sources have told CNN for weeks that the president has opted to listen to the questionable advice coming from another doctor on the coronavirus task force, Scott Atlas, who tweeted a post had said masks work? No. A comment removed by Twitter because it violated the social media platforms rules. As most experts believe masks are effective.
Atlas has become such a lightning rod, the Washington Post reported task force coordinator Dr. Deborah Birx complained to the vice president's office about him. In the meantime, the president is escalating his attacks on Biden.
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TRUMP: Joe Biden is a criminal and he's been a criminal for a long time. And you are a criminal in the media for not reporting it.
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ACOSTA: Biden is asking voters to reject the president on character grounds.
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JOE BIDEN (D-DE), FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT AND PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Words of a president matter. The words this president has used that our children have heard, our sons and our daughters, have been despicable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: A Trump advisor questions the president's decision to attack Fauci two weeks before the elections, saying the campaign is already struggling to keep up with Biden's massive spending advantage. Adding, time is running out. Being outspent is a problem.
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ACOSTA (voice-over): No one ever thought we would be outspent. Time is our enemy. The president is more confident.
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TRUMP: We're going to win. I would've said that three weeks ago, three weeks ago, two weeks ago. I don't know, I would've said it.
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ACOSTA: A campaign advisor said the president's attacks on Dr. Fauci are ill-advised as they remind Americans of Mr. Trump's handling of the coronavirus pandemic, a subject campaign official desperately want to avoid -- Jim Acosta, CNN, the White House.
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CURNOW: First lady Melania Trump will be campaigning with her husband on Tuesday. Her first campaign appearance in over one year. It will be in the battleground state of Pennsylvania for a rally. The first lady is also expected to attend the next presidential debate, according to a White House official.
Meanwhile, Mr. Trump says he may hold 5 rallies on the last 2 or 3 days before the election. And Democratic nominee Joe Biden does not have any campaign events planned on Tuesday. He will be at home in Delaware.
But Mr. Biden reacted angrily to President Trump's attack on Dr. Fauci on the pandemic.
He said, "President Trump even criticized me yesterday for listening to the scientists. That's not an attack. That's a badge of honor," he said.
Early in-person voting in the U.S. is breaking records. People are lining up for hours waiting to cast their ballots in the presidential race.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obviously seeing what is going on in Georgia and other places where the lines are pretty long --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to make sure that my vote gets counted. I'm putting it in here. And I wanted to get done early.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have been waiting for a long time to cast my vote. and I think it's about time America stood up and said what they wanted to say.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I support President Trump.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is my son. He is also voting for Biden.
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CURNOW: We have more now from Pamela Brown. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ODALYS PEREZ, FLORIDA VOTER: There's a chance that your voice is not going to be counted. Why risk it?
PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just 15 days to go and many voters are taking no chances. Already more than 28 million votes have been cast nationwide. That number representing almost 20 percent of the more than 136 million total ballots cast four years ago. Ballots are now available in all 50 states and D.C. with in-person voting beginning in several key swing states in the coming days.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good morning.
BROWN: Today, it started in 52 Florida counties. And rain this morning in south Florida didn't stop voters from lining up before sunrise. For those voting by mail by midday Monday, more than 2.4 million ballots have been cast in the Sunshine State. That's only about 260,000 ballots fewer than all the mail-in ballots tallied in 2016.
PEREZ: I did have an absentee ballot, but I wasn't comfortable with everything that you hear on the news. So I just decided to come in. Myself.
BROWN: Thirty percent of ballots coming from Republicans, 49 percent Democrats and 20 percent with no party affiliation, which political experts say is a growing trend in Florida as more voters are turning their backs on both parties.
In Georgia, early voting continues to shatter records a week in. A massive 653 percent increase in absentee ballots cast by mail over 2016. Today in Colorado, vote counting begins, as does in-person voting.
TRUMP: Say this is very incorrect --
BROWN: Meanwhile, President Trump continues to give Democrats every reason to be concerned about a potential peaceful transfer of power if he were to lose to Joe Biden.
TRUMP: Then they say, if you lose will you have a friendly transition? I say I want a fair election.
BROWN: CNN is now learning that congressional Democrats, the Biden campaign and outside groups are working on contingency plans behind the scenes, coming up with the two part strategy in anticipation of that very scenario, preparing for a post-election legal battle and messaging war into combating misinformation about voting -- Pamela Brown, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CURNOW: For more on this very important race, stay with CNN. And save this date. The final debate of the presidential election will take place on Thursday night. Our U.S. special coverage begins at 7 pm Eastern time, which is Friday morning in the rest of the world, at least. Where some of you are.
All over Europe and many other parts of the world, COVID-19 infections are soaring. This week, the global number of cases passed 40 million according to Johns Hopkins University. On Monday, Argentina became the 5th country to report 1 million infections.
Ireland is adopting some of Europe's strictest measures starting on Wednesday. No social gatherings at homes or gardens. Restaurants and bars can only offer takeout.
Italy's Lombardy region, which was once Europe's ground zero in the pandemic is also facing a new curfew. It kicks off on Thursday.
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CURNOW: In Belgium, where a curfew is already in place, the health minister says the COVID-19 situation is close to a tsunami. He's calling on all Belgians to protect themselves and their relatives.
We have reporters covering the angles from all around the world, in Hong Kong, Israel and Colombia. We start with our reporters in Germany and the United Kingdom. Let's go to Salma Abdelaziz in Manchester, England.
That is where local leaders face a deadline to reach a deal with prime minister Boris Johnson or be forced into toughest restrictions there.
What is the latest there?
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN PRODUCER: Robyn, after nearly 10 days of back and forth, the government says they are essentially fed up. They say if they cannot reach an agreement by midday today with local leaders in Manchester, they will impose unilaterally tier 3 restrictions on the city.
These 2 sides have been locked in a bitter battle for days now over prime minister Boris Johnson's plan to raise the alert level to tier 3 that would shut down pubs, bars, potentially gyms and ban any households from mixing.
The prime minister's arguments is the cases are too high here. Something needs to be done to stem the rising surge.
The mayor of Greater Manchester's argument is, if you are going to put us under a punishing lockdown in the middle of winter, you need to provide the financial package to help the businesses that will be affected under these restrictions.
But it's important to remember here that Manchester is just one city in England. What we are really seeing play out here is a region by region system, each area negotiating its own system with the government. Meanwhile, the virus continues to spread through the population. Just
to give you an idea, here in Manchester, Downing Street officials say that, in a matter of weeks, the city could run out of ICU capacity. We're also seeing other towns and regions rebelling against prime minister Boris Johnson's strategy.
They're not the only ones. The country's scientific advisers have also said that a nationwide lockdown is better than this regional approach. We also have the four nations, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales also acting on their own.
Wales have said, for example, that they are going to go through a 2- week lockdown. That, of course, is again a contradiction with prime minister Boris Johnson's strategy -- Robyn?
CURNOW: Thanks so much.
Meanwhile, as Salma was saying, Wales is heading into lockdown starting Friday evening. Everyone in Wales has been asked to stay home for 2 weeks. Bars, restaurants and retail stores are being shut down; only essential businesses will be allowed to remain open. Government officials say it's the only way to combat the coronavirus there.
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MARK DRAKEFORD, WELSH FIRST MINISTER: Everybody in Wales is fatigued by coronavirus. Everybody wishes that we could go back to the way things were before the virus began.
Of course we are anxious about the stresses and strains and the demands we are making of people and of businesses. But the choice is not between doing this and doing nothing.
If we do nothing, then our health service will be overwhelmed. Businesses will not be able to function, because the number of people suffering from the virus and needing to self isolate will mean businesses are not able to operate, either.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW: Out to Berlin, where Scott McLean is standing by.
The German chancellor Angela Merkel is urging people to avoid social gatherings to stop a second wave of the virus there.
What else do we know, Scott?
What's it like at the moment?
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Last Wednesday, the chancellor imposed new restrictions on virus hotspots, which includes Berlin; the bars have to close early. There are limits on social gatherings.
And she said that the government would wait about 10 days to see how things are going. This weekend will be that gut check moment when Merkel has to decide whether to ultimately push for more stringent rules to get this virus under control.
Since that announcement was made, the 7-day average of new cases has gone up by almost 25 percent. Over the ,weekend she put out this appeal to Germans to follow the rules and to avoid these large social gatherings to get the virus under control, saying how Christmas is this year will ultimately be determined by the actions of people over the coming days and weeks.
The German system relies heavily on testing and tracing and isolating people. But when the numbers get too high, the system does not work too well. That is what she's trying to avoid.
The much bigger story in this region is what is happening in the Czech Republic. In that country right now, they are reporting more new cases of the virus per capita than any other major country on Earth.
Czech Republic was super successful in the spring in tamping down the virus, it had the lockdown and the travel restrictions. But what set it apart was that every person had to wear a face covering anytime they left the house.
The trouble is they got a little bit complacent over the summertime and when cases started to rise, the populist prime minister, which had once been an advocate for this mask mandate, said no to reinstating it.
Things have obviously changed since then. The health minister announced yesterday that that mask mandate would be coming back, not quite as strict as before but pretty close.
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MCLEAN: Masks would have to be worn in any built up urban areas. They will also have to be worn in cars, with people outside of their own household. They were already required in indoor settings like in many other countries.
So the health minister told me last week that he expected the cases to continue to rise until the end of this month. Obviously, after that, they are hoping that these new, stricter mask measures will ultimately make the difference in bringing down cases.
CURNOW: Thanks for that update. Good to see you, Scott McLean, live in Berlin.
France is now the eighth country in the world to report more than 900,000 cases of COVID. It has seen a steep increase in hospitalizations as well. Melissa Bell is in Paris. Melissa?
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MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The French first lady, Brigitte Macron, is having to self isolate for 7 days as per French regulations after coming into contact with someone who is COVID positive on Thursday. Nationwide, meanwhile, the number of COVID-19 patients in French ICUs
is now above 2000. That is the first time that has happened since the month of May. The number of daily cases, however slightly down, we've seen 4 days in a row of rises above 25,000 on Monday, the number was just about 13,000.
All eyes very much on the curfews that were placed in 10 French cities, including Paris, will have the desired effect. The French interior minister said they are being widely respected, although he did say that more than 3,000 fines had already been given.
Over in Belgium, the health minister is warning of a possible tsunami that he says could leave the country unable to cope with a second wave that has hit the south and Brussels particularly hard -- Melissa Bell, CNN, Paris.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CURNOW: I want to take a closer look at what is happening in Argentina. Here is journalist Stefano Pozzebon.
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STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Argentina, just across the 1 million COVID-19 cases, the threshold, the second country in South America to reach the number after Brazil and only the fifth country all over the world.
The vast majority of the Argentinian cases are confined in the Buenos Aires metropolitan area. And the intensive care units' occupancy rate is at 64 percent. Perhaps the sole positive news are of what COVID-19 is inflicting on Argentina, not only in the health section but also as an economic catastrophe.
And Argentina is not the only country in South America where COVID 19 is growing and growing fast. Colombia is also approaching the 1 million cases figure -- for CNN, this is Stefano Pozzebon, Bogota.
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CURNOW: He's used to fights but now the chief Palestinian negotiator is battling COVID.
And a Chinese city is one of the first offering an experimental vaccine to the public.
But is it safe?
We'll have live reports from Hong Kong and Jerusalem. Stay with CNN. We will be right back.
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CURNOW: Welcome back. I'm Robyn Curnow.
China says the coronavirus is mostly under control and the economy is starting to bounce back. Now one city is offering an experimental COVID-19 vaccine to the public. People started getting injections over the weekend, two doses for about $60.
Now the vaccine hasn't been fully tested but there is clearly a demand for it anyway. I want to talk about this now with Kristie Lu Stout. Kristie joins us from Hong Kong.
What do you make of this and what are people saying?
KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN ANCHOR: There were these incredible reports over the weekend that this eastern Chinese city was distributing to the general public an experimental coronavirus vaccine.
We sent a team led by CNN's David Culver to check things out. This is what they found. They found there was a single clinic that was distributing these experimental vaccines for about $60 U.S. or 400 renminbi for 2 shots. No children were being vaccinated here but you had to be an adult between the ages 18 and 59 to take this experimental vaccine.
It was also being distributed at a first come, first served basis. By the time David Culver and his team reached the clinic in Yiwu, they had already run out.
But what they discovered was interesting. A number of Chinese nationals, even from nearby provinces, had traveled and flown into Yiwu for a chance to pay for take the experimental vaccine, not because of the coronavirus inside China -- China largely has that situation under control -- but because of their desire to be able to travel internationally again.
So for these individuals, they want the vaccine. They are willing to pay for this experimental vaccine. They trust the vaccine, even at the stage.
Since July, hundreds of thousands of people inside China have been injected with a coronavirus experimental vaccine under an emergency use provision that is authorized by the Chinese government.
These individuals include frontline medical workers as well as border patrol staff, even international business men and business women. But many people have cautioned that taking an experimental vaccine may have some unintended or harmful side effects.
Not only that, even a vaccine that passes human clinical trials could be risky as well. I want you to listen to the thoughts from this virologist based here in Hong Kong University. He is currently working on a second stage vaccine. He says even when that passes phase 3, it's still quite risky. Take a listen.
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JIN DONG-YAN, VIROLOGIST, HONG KONG UNIVERSITY: In the history of vaccine developments, there are many examples that, even if the vaccine has passed the phase 3 trials, still there might be problems.
Whether there might be ADE in the case of SARS-CoV-2, it is still unknown. And we have to find out. And only after completion of the phase 3, can we have a definite answer to that. Otherwise, it is risky.
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STOUT: Not only that, Chinese vaccines, the entire industry, has a spotty and troubled safety record over the last decade. A number of vaccines have been hit with scandals, even around vaccines intended for children.
Despite all of these risks, quite a number of people inside China are clamoring for and willing to pay for an experimental coronavirus vaccine -- back to you.
CURNOW: Thank you so much for that update. Kristie Lu Stout in Hong Kong.
Chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat is in critical condition at an Israeli hospital. He was admitted on Sunday after testing positive for coronavirus about two weeks ago. Officials say his condition is now deteriorated and he is considered high-risk, because he recently had a lung transplant.
I want to go straight to Jerusalem, Oren Liebermann is joining me now.
Oren, hi. I had the back of Kristie's head for a while but we've got you. It's a good thing.
We have concern around the world for Mr. Erekat.
Do you know how he's doing?
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We haven't gotten an update this morning from the hospital in Jerusalem. The, latest update we have is that he remains in critical condition.
He came in the hospital on Sunday afternoon in serious but stable condition and brought there by ambulance from in Jericho. He's being treated at the hospital with the consultation of international medical experts.
On Monday morning his condition deteriorated. There were tense moments and there remain tense moments. He was in and remains in critical condition.
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LIEBERMANN: His wife, from the hospital, posted a short update last night, saying his oxygen level had gone up to 92. That was a positive sign. But there is a need for many, many, more positive signs.
As you say, the world is watching and we have seen on Twitter, many of those he worked with and negotiated with, former U.S. ambassadors to Israel, former members of negotiating teams, reaching out and saying their thoughts and prayers are with him. They hope for a speedy recovery for him.
It gives you the idea of the impact that he has had over his long career of negotiations, dealing with many people from many different countries.
CURNOW: All of this taking place in the wider context in the region in Israel; the number of infections have gone down, which has led to loosening of restrictions.
LIEBERMANN: It has. The latest update from the ministry of health is that there were about 1,500 cases yesterday throughout the country and a positivity rate of 3.5 percent. Those are very good numbers, especially compared to what they were just a few weeks ago, where there were more than 9,000 cases in one day and the positivity rate well over 10 percent.
It is that improvement that has led the country's leadership to begin easing restrictions. But it comes with a warning. Prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu says, if these numbers go up, we could go back to closures. We could go back to a second full and general lockdown.
It is worth noting that, if you could compare the numbers right now to the numbers when Israel came out of its first general lockdown in April or May, numbers now, though better than they were a few weeks ago, are not nearly as good as they were when Israel chose to come out of that first general lockdown.
That could very well end up being a worrying point.
CURNOW: Thanks for the update, Oren. Thank you.
New concerns over future COVID vaccines and heart damage caused by the virus. Details ahead.
Also, a new study shows an alarming trend in U.S. nursing homes when it comes to COVID. We will be right back with these stories.
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CURNOW: Welcome back to CNN. I'm Robyn Curnow.
The number of people infected with COVID-19 worldwide has now topped 40 million, cases are spiking across Europe. Many nations are being forced to fight the virus with lockdowns and curfews.
Italy's Lombardy region is set to start a curfew on Thursday. Slovenia also has had a curfew in place as it declares a 30-day state of emergency there.
Ireland is now set to move to a 5 alert level, the highest level of restrictions, for 6 weeks. Wales has ordered a mandatory 2-week lockdown for all but essential businesses.
In Belgium, the health minister says the situation there is close to a tsunami.
The U.S. is dealing with more than 8.2 million COVID cases.
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CURNOW: Still by far the most in the world. Some vaccine candidates in late stage trials are showing promising signs. But states have no idea how they are going to pay for them once approved or if people will actually feel safe taking. Them.
Meanwhile new studies show long term heart damage is highly likely in some survivors as Nick Watt now reports.
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NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Several studies show that this virus can attack the blood vessels, the lungs and the muscles in the heart that could lead to fatal consequences further down the line.
Meanwhile, here in California, the governor has created a scientific safety review work group to look at any vaccine that's approved by the Food and Drug Administration before it is rolled out in California, a sign of just how little California trusts the federal government and the Trump administration -- Nick Watt, CNN, Los Angeles.
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CURNOW: A new study also finds many nursing home residents who tested positive for the virus actually did not show symptoms prior to testing. Jacqueline Howard breaks down the research.
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JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH CORRESPONDENT: This new study shows that many COVID-19 cases in nursing homes are asymptomatic. They don't show symptoms, which can drive dangerous outbreaks.
The study looked at more than 5,000 COVID-19 cases in nursing homes across 20 states. The study found that 40.9 percent of cases were asymptomatic; 39.8 percent did show symptoms. And about 19 percent were presymptomatic, meaning they did not show symptoms around the time they were tested but eventually developed symptoms later on.
The study calls for universal testing in nursing homes to really help identify and isolate these types of cases -- back to you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CURNOW: Thank you so much, Jacqueline Howard.
For more, I'm joined by Dr. Esther Choo, a professor of emergency medicine at Oregon Health and Science University.
Doctor, lovely to see you again. I would not mind you commenting on those stats that we just heard Jacqueline lay out.
What does that tell you, particularly because nursing homes, in many ways, particularly here in the States and Italy we know as well, really kickstarted the spread of this.
DR. ESTHER CHOO, OREGON HEALTH AND SCIENCE UNIVERSITY: It is absolutely true, what you say. It is hard to underestimate how much nursing homes really played a role in the pandemic here.
In some states, close to 50 percent of the deaths were in nursing homes and other long term care facilities. It really is a setup for the spread of disease. You have the most vulnerable population, older people, many with chronic diseases.
You have a pretty enclosed space, not a lot of ability to spread people out. Then, of course, you have a lot of congregated social settings and staff going from room to room.
And I think the critical element of this virus spreading like wildfire in these facilities has been how readily it is able to spread when people are not symptomatic. Some of them will never become symptomatic, just as was laid out in that study.
So I think we are starting to understand a little bit more about the conditions that allow virus to spread so readily in nursing homes. And I think really only a universal testing process and very rigorous contact tracing will allow us to get on top of the spread in nursing homes.
Of course, when vaccines come out, nursing homes and other congregants living in facilities like correctional facilities will need to be at the very top of the list to get a vaccine so that we could hope to gain control of those settings.
CURNOW: You make a good point there. We also heard from Nick Watt and also Dr. Fauci earlier on in the show, how long term heart damage seems to be a concern. We've spoken about this before, all the various different parts of the body that seem to be attacked by this virus.
What do you make of this, also the study of the heart damage?
CHOO: So fascinating that, the information that is coming out. We are now seeing about a quarter of hospitalized patients have some evidence of heart damage. That can be caused through a number of mechanisms.
There could be thrombosis directly in the coronary vessels. There also appears to be a direct effect on the myocytes on the heart muscle cells by the virus. All that could lead to fibrosis in the heart muscle and heart failure. I think some of the extended symptoms in these long-haul patients who
are having symptoms like fatigue and shortness of breath many months after the initial infection, may be due to the cardiac damage. But we don't completely understand it.
We don't understand the extent of heart disease in patients with COVID who had mild symptoms or had very serious symptoms.
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CHOO: I think we just need to continue watching the data as it comes out so that we know what to expect long term in terms of care needs and comorbidities after COVID.
CURNOW: That is key as well.
When we talk about the sickest of the sick, in many ways, their blood could also be the one solution for others, which is in terms of these plasma treatments.
What do you make of that?
CHOO: Not totally surprising but it is good to have this information that validates what we suspected, which is that patients who are very sick have severe COVID and require hospitalization seem to have the most vigorous response in terms of neutralizing antibodies.
So that holds the most promise in terms of developing convalescent antibodies and therapies for other patients, who may be unable to mount their own immune response effectively.
So especially, while we wait for a vaccine, identifying those kind of elite antibody manufacturers, those patients who are having the most vigorous immune response, may be the most promising bridge therapy.
CURNOW: We have also heard that men seem to get COVID more than women or at least seemed to suffer -- the outcomes seem to be worse with men, they're longer in ICU. Why is that?
CHOO: Another thing that we are just starting to understand. Immunologists are looking at how men are able to respond and, in general, men have a weaker response. Their T-cell response is not as vigorous as women's. Part of COVID has been how we develop auto antibodies that can impede our body's natural immune response to COVID-19 in a way that is harmful and actually keeps us from being able to fend off the virus and its more serious consequences.
Men seem to have more auto antibodies. And aside from the biologic reasons why men may fare worse, there are probably social behaviors that make men more likely to get a high viral inoculum and get sick. So it's kind of notorious how we assume that men have more risk taking behaviors.
But that seems to be true in the case of viruses as well. They are less likely to obey things like recommendations for wearing masks. They may be in more conditions, in social conditions, where there is a lot of exposure.
So it's no doubt a combination of exposure to virus due to social behaviors and then also a very different biological response that seems to put men at more risk.
CURNOW: OK, thanks for. That all the questions I wanted to ask this Monday. Really appreciate it. Thank you so much. Have a lovely week.
CHOO: You, too, Robyn.
CURNOW: Next on CNN, a pointed message to the Trump campaign. John Fogerty is standing up for his song and taking action to keep it from being played at the president's rallies.
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(MUSIC PLAYING, "YMCA")
CURNOW: That, of course, is "YMCA," just one of the songs artists are demanding the Trump campaign stop using at rallies, stop dancing at rallies, during a pandemic that is killing more than 220,000 Americans.
Some find the president choice of songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Knocking on Heaven's Door," just a little bit tone-deaf.
Now John Fogerty of Creedence Clearwater Revival is demanding that the Trump campaign stop using his song, "Fortunate Son." It's the anti- Vietnam War anthem that refers to the rich and the powerful avoiding the draft and paying taxes. That perhaps might have hit close to home for the president. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC PLAYING, "FORTUNATE SON")
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW: Wow.
So Fogerty spoke to Don Lemon a little bit earlier on CNN about the history of the song and why he objects to its use at the Trump rallies. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN FOGERTY, SINGER-SONGWRITER: Way back in the '60s, you know, of course I was drafted at that time. That was one of the parts of the dynamic that's different than now. I dare say most 18-year-old males really kind of didn't want to go to Vietnam. But we accepted our fate as it would be. So I was drafted. I went into the Army reserve during say, '66, '67, '68. Eventually, you know, with the -- my band mates, we became famous and I was writing songs.
And one of the subjects that really ticked me off was, as I began to hear about senators' sons and rich people's sons avoiding the draft or getting cushy jobs, they say, in the military, like, you know, entertainment director or something.
And it just, you know, rubbed me the wrong way. I ended up writing this song. You could say I wrote this song about Donald Trump, although I didn't know him at the time.
So I'm sticking up for my song because it means a lot to veterans especially people from those times. And, also, he's using my voice. He's playing my voice at a rally, an event that I really don't agree with obviously, I don't agree with the president's policies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW: So he has issued a cease and desist order for the campaign to stop playing the song. But he also went on to say that he's had some pushback from fans who support President Trump. And then he repeated his call for Americans to vote.
Thanks for watching CNN. I'm Robyn Curnow, "WORLD SPORT" starts after the break. Thanks for joining me.
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