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Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC) is Interviewed about the Stimulus Deal; Utah COVID Cases Surge; Early Voting in North Carolina; Threatening E-mails to Voters. Aired 9:30-10a

Aired October 21, 2020 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): You've got $2 trillion. They've come to $1.8 trillion and $1.9 trillion. What's the difference? The difference is in the details. That's where the devil lurks, in those details.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: I -- yes. I wish we had more --

CLYBURN: So --

HARLOW: I mean I -- I think all Americans deserve to see many more details right now. And there -- there are just so many question marks.

That said, your message yesterday was that this isn't going to change until the administration changes, if it does, and that's, you know, you hoping that Biden wins, but also you hoping that Democrats take the Senate. And even if all those things line up, we're talking about January 20th, so the end of January, February at the earliest.

For any American out there, the 8 million more who are now in poverty than in March, is your message to them basically you're going to have to wait while we in Congress fight?

CLYBURN: No, I don't think that you have to wait until January. We're going to have a lame duck session. There's going to be a lot of stuff happening in the lame duck. The election is less than two weeks away and I believe we'll be back in Washington a week or two after the elections and we could do something then. At least the elections will be behind us, people will know what their futures are and maybe they will be more apt to sit down and get serious about things after their electoral process -- prospects have been settled.

HARLOW: Well, it's just a sad state then that, you know, relief like this, that both sides think the American people need, they don't agree on the particulars, but, you know, is waiting on an election.

Let me ask you about the former president, Barack Obama, hits the campaign trail today for Joe Biden. And it comes at an interesting time when Joe Biden, yes, has more support from black men than President Trump, but President Trump has about 3 percent more black support from black young men than he did in 2016. That's about 17 percent now, it was 14 percent back then.

Why do you think that is and what should we see, do you think, from President Obama on that front?

CLYBURN: I really don't think that's true. I know what the numbers say. I really don't. I have to look (INAUDIBLE). I talk to a lot of black men and I would tell you that they now have had a big question answered for them. That 10 percent or 13 percent last time, that was all about what do you have to lose? They now know exactly what we have to lose. We have lost lives. We have lost livelihoods. We have lost our health. We have lost our wealth.

Black men are suffering exponentially and they know the answer to that question now. I don't believe that number for one moment.

HARLOW: Where should President Obama go and what should he say?

CLYBURN: Well, I think that President Obama will speak to black males in the way they should be spoken to. I think -- I welcome him to the trail. I really believe that he has tremendous influence in suburbia. He has tremendous influence on the campuses of historical black colleges and universities. There is one, Lincoln University, sitting right there in Pennsylvania. Fine to be in Philadelphia. But I'd love to see him get out there in Oxford, Pennsylvania, at Lincoln University, as well.

HARLOW: All right. So get out of the city, go to the suburbs.

Let's end on this.

If Judge Amy Coney Barrett is confirmed to the Supreme Court this week, if Joe Biden wins the presidential election, do you support a President Biden packing the Supreme Court?

CLYBURN: Well, I think the Supreme Court is being packed now. That I think we should not (INAUDIBLE).

HARLOW: But -- but more justices. To -- to the question of more justices, adding them, is that -- is that a good idea?

CLYBURN: (INAUDIBLE). Well, adding justices, I think we need to unpack the Supreme Court. There needs to be balance in the Supreme Court. You know, I know what the Supreme Court was like during the Dred Scott decision. I know what the Supreme Court was like during Plessy versus Ferguson. And I think that this court, that we see developing now, is a throwback to Plessy versus Ferguson and even Dred Scott?

HARLOW: You do? You think it goes that --

CLYBURN: Absolutely I do believe that. I have said before and I believe very strongly that the Shelby v. Holder decision that got rid of the Voting Rights Act was the worst decision of the Supreme Court since Dred Scott.

I said that. I believe that very strongly because I know what the vote does for people of color and I know what happened here in South Carolina and other states immediately after that decision when all of these onerous things were done to people's voting rights. That's what's going on right now, a massive suppress the vote effort made possible -- made possible by Holder -- or Shelby v. Holder would not happen but for that Supreme Court decision.

[09:35:03]

HARLOW: Congressman Clyburn, we'll talk more about this when we have you on next. We're out of time. But I appreciate you joining us this morning. Thank you.

CLYBURN: Thank you for having me.

HARLOW: Of course.

Jim.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Listen, strong words there on that. I mean that decision basically said there was no more need to protect voting rights and, of course, we're seeing this election not true.

People with non-COVID-19 related emergencies in Utah aren't getting the care they need because of the rise in hospitalizations for coronavirus. We're going to have a live report from Salt Lake City, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Welcome back.

So the health care system in Utah right now is incredibly strained as that state is dealing with a huge spike in COVID cases, 1,168 new cases, in fact, in that state reported just yesterday.

[09:40:08]

SCIUTTO: Yes. And at least one hospital in Salt Lake City has opened an overflow ICU to treat patients.

CNN correspondent Martin Savidge is in Salt Lake City.

What are you seeing there, Marty?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Jim. Good morning, Poppy.

Yes, the problem here is continuing to grow at a significant rate and there's something else that medical officials are beginning to see, and it's how this coronavirus can potentially actually kill someone without actually infecting them. And it's creating a dangerous competition for medical resources.

Here's what we found.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) SAVIDGE (voice over): In Salt Lake City, coronavirus cases are surging and hospitals are in danger of running out of tentative care unit beds. It's so frustrating for Dr. Emily Spivak, she breaks down.

DR. EMILY SPIVAK, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE, UNIVERSITY OF UTAH: I was trying so hard not to.

SAVIDGE: She's upset because we know how to avoid coronavirus, wear a mask, social distance, wash your hands, yet many people don't.

SPIVAK: There are front line providers in the emergency room, our nurses, our doctors, on all these COVID units in the ICU, working tirelessly. It's kind of like people just are going out and living their lives not realizing that they are exhausting our health care system.

There's so much that can be done by our leaders and they're just not doing it.

SAVIDGE: COVID-19 nearly killed Stephanie Deer's sister, even though her sister never had it.

STEPHANIE DEER, SISTER HAD HEART ATTACK DURING PANDEMIC: Honestly, if you would have seen the look on that doctor's face, he was incredulous.

SAVIDGE: What her sister, 47-year-old Lori Terry (ph), did have was a serious heart attack. At the local hospital, the family says the doctors said Terry needed to get to an intensive care unit to survive.

DEER: And he told us right away, we're doing everything we can to try and find a hospital that can take Lori, and we can't find one.

SAVIDGE: For hours nurses called hospital after hospital.

DEER: They didn't have bed space in a critical care unit to treat my sister because of COVID. I believed we would lose her right there, right there, because she couldn't get medical care in the United States.

SAVIDGE: Even in a pandemic, medical experts say other life- threatening health disasters still strike without warning, like car accidents and heart attacks. But now those cases compete with COVID when it comes to care.

Eventually, Lori Terry was able to get the expert medical help she needed, but her sister can't forget how COVID-19 nearly killed her and she blames the carelessness of others.

DEER: And they need to wear a mask. They need to care about their neighbors, their family, their children, and they need to do it right now. That's my message.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE As we point out in the piece, Lori Terry was able to get that advanced medical care that she needed, but, unfortunately, she has suffered a number of significant medical setbacks. Her family could definitely use your well wishes and prayers.

And they will always be haunted about whether the outcome could have been better had they been able to get her to an ICU, say, in 30 minutes, instead of what turned out to be over three hours. They'll never really have the answer to that, but they will always wonder.

Jim and Poppy.

HARLOW: What a story and what a reminder for anyone who goes out without a mask or gathers in large groups.

Marty Savidge, thank you.

Well, millions of people, they've already voted in North Carolina and election officials say a vast majority of votes in the key swing state could actually come before November 3rd.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:48:51]

SCIUTTO: Well, a big story this election is an enormous jump in early voting. We're now just 13 days from Election Day. More than 2 million voters in North Carolina alone have already cast their ballots for 2020. Just 700,000 early votes had been cast in the state at this time in 2016, Poppy, nearly three times the rate so far.

HARLOW: It's huge.

Our Dianne Gallagher joins us from Charlotte, North Carolina.

Dianne, good morning. Good to have you.

What more do we know about these voters?

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, to give you an idea of just how astronomical these numbers are right now, there are about 7.2 million registered voters in North Carolina, with 2.1 million votes already cast, that's about 30 percent of all the registered voters in North Carolina that have already cast their ballots.

Now, more than half of them did what these good people here are doing, they stood in line for early voting, which has only been open for about six days here. More than 1.5 million voters that way.

Now, we've talked a lot about absentee by mail ballots. And when we're looking at those numbers coming back right now, Democrats represent toughly 46 percent of those that were requested, but 41 percent of those that have been returned. Republicans, 19 percent of the ballots requested, 24 percent of those returned.

[09:50:06]

And, look, this is something we're seeing play out across the entire nation right now. And 33.4 million votes have already been cast across the country. You take a state like Texas, for example, 5.3 million votes already cast. So these numbers are ramping up, everywhere, Jim, Poppy.

And, of course, this is a battleground state here in North Carolina. To show you how important those votes are, tonight President Trump has a rally. Today, Senator Kamala Harris here in North Carolina as well.

HARLOW: Clearly a lot of focus on the state --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: And a lot of people engaged, which is a good thing.

Thanks, Dianne.

Well, more than 33 million ballots already cast across the entire country. That has federal officials with their hands full trying to safeguard your vote.

SCIUTTO: So let's let you know what they're doing. Election officials in Florida and Alaska are now in contact with law enforcement authorities as registered voters in both states say they've received threatening vote for Trump or else e-mails. Those emails may have come from overseas.

This is one of President Trump's top political appointees in the Homeland Security Department is urging voters to be patient, saying there is a less than 50 percent chance that a winner will be declared on election night.

Now, let's go over all these headlines with CNN's Kristen Holmes. She's in Washington.

Kristen, what do we know about where these threatening e-mails are coming from, might have come from, and how many voters have received them?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim and Poppy, it's not a small number. At the University of Florida alone, the spokesperson there said roughly 183 people received that e-mail. We know there are at least dozens more.

So in terms of who it came from, well, to the voter, it appeared to be coming from a far right group known as The Proud Boys. Now, the chairman of that group denies having anything to do with that. In fact, says he's working with the FBI. He wants the person to be punished for impersonating the group.

We obtained a copy of the e-mail and we sent it to an analyst who said that they believed it came from a foreign Internet structure, an infrastructure. So something we're focusing on here is this foreign interference, but, of course, we are still at the beginning phases of this investigation.

SCIUTTO: Also we know that it's possible we may not know the winner of the presidential election until a few days after the Election Day, or at least not on election night. We just don't know at this point.

What is the DHS saying to prepare Americans for that possibility?

HOLMES: Well, this is very interesting because it sounds nothing like what President Trump is doing to prepare people, which is essentially saying, baselessly, that if there is no result on election night, that it's because of fraud or a rigged election. And, again, there is no fact to that.

However, these senior DHS officials, they sound very different. They are urging patience. And, in fact, Ken Cuccinelli, senior official at DHS, said not only is there a very good chance that we won't have those results on election night. He also said that doesn't mean that something isn't working. So, really, an opposite message here.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

Right. Listen to them, OK, and they are the president's appointees and with a contradictory message to him about how this election will play out in terms of fairness and safety.

Kristen Holmes, thanks very much.

If you want to find your polling station, your voter registration status, or get information on how to properly cast absentee or -- ballots, mail-in ballots, or to vote early, go here, cnn.com/vote gives you all of the facts, not the disinformation, that you need.

Well, three years after it started, separating families at the U.S./Mexico border, that is children from their parents. The Trump administration now says it cannot find the parents of more than 500 separated children. Imagine that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:57:31]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

According to a Justice Department court filing, lawyers have not been able to reach the parents of 545 children who were separated from their families at the U.S./Mexico border by the Trump administration between 2017 and 2018. Approximately two-thirds of the parents are believed to have been deported now.

HARLOW: And, remember, a watchdog report just weeks ago found that it was top Justice Department officials who were the driving force, the knowing force, behind the separation policy. That it was an intentional policy.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: Our justice correspondent, Jessica Schneider, is with us this morning.

Good morning, Jess. JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Jim and

Poppy.

You know, you guys laid it out, these disclosure are really part of the fallout and the devastating ripple effect of this zero tolerance policy that was instituted by the Trump administration all the way back in 2017.

So these latest court filings, they reveal that parents of more than 500 children, they still can't be found. Now, this is despite the fact that a federal judge ordered a court-appointed steering committee to actually go out and look for these parents. But, despite that, there are still 545 children here in the United States who are still living with sponsors and their parents cannot be found.

Now, part of the problem is that when this program was instituted, it was part of a pilot program back in 2017. And after these parents were arrested, detained, we've learned that more than two-thirds of them were actually deported. So that's part of the problem here.

And, of course, COVID has contributed to the problems because while these children have been living in the United States with these sponsor families, these people on the ground have been going to Mexico and Central America trying to find these parents, but COVID has slowed things down.

But now those lawyers are back on the ground, they're efforting to find these parents. But, Jim and Poppy, 2017 was, you know, three and a half years ago when this pilot program started. A lot of these children who were taken away were babies. It has been several years now since they've even seen their parents. So, again, the fallout and the ripple effects from this policy, we continue to see it in these court filings.

Guys.

SCIUTTO: Listen. Remember, a Justice Department official said it was deliberate, right, to be a deterrent to folks coming across the border.

Jessica Schneider, good to have you on the story.

HARLOW: Top of the hour. Good morning, everyone, I'm Poppy Harlow.

[10:00:00]

SCIUTTO: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

A deadly strategy. That is what the U.S. surgeon general is calling the idea of using what's known as herd immunity to fight the coronavirus