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Coronavirus Cases Surge As Election Day Nears; Dems Hope Landslide Victory Could Negate Trump Challenges. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired October 21, 2020 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:05]

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everybody. Top of the hour. I'm John King in Washington. Thank you for sharing a very busy news day with us.

It is a crowded campaign trail today. The president is in North Carolina. So is the Democratic Vice-Presidential Nominee Kamala Harris. Vice President Mike Pence making stops in both New Hampshire and in battleground Ohio.

Even in the coronavirus campaign, the travel reflects the urgency of the calendar. 13 days now until Election Day and potentially defining debate tomorrow night. The coronavirus will again be a central topic. We know from reams and reams of polling data. Americans look harshly on the president's pandemic leadership. But last night this was his attempt to recapture the pandemic narrative and to reframe your November choice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our plan to kill the virus or Biden's plan to kill the American dream.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: The hope there in the president's words is that in these final 13 days, you will somehow forget the past seven painful months and that you will ignore today's sober reality. Two horrifying COVID-19 peaks behind us, now the United States staring down a third climb.

Tuesday, 60,000 plus new cases. That is the highest single day total for Tuesday since the end of July. The daily average of new cases right now just below 60,000. This hour, zero states trending in the right direction, zero. Deaths ticked up on Tuesday too, to 933 American lives lost. The pattern over the pandemic, we all know it. It's the deaths leg cases which makes it less likely that jump yesterday was just a blip.

But rounding the turn is the president's constant coronavirus refrain. Back to normal is coming soon, he says. Dr. Fauci this morning says reality though is very different.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES (via telephone): Unfortunately, we've plateaued again to about 40,000 to 50,000 cases a day, and as we're getting into the cooler weather, we're getting more and more cases. So, this looks like we're going to have a very difficult fall and winter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Let's look at the numbers behind that sober assessment from Dr. Fauci here. And if you look at the state-by-state map, what's missing?

Green is missing. Green means down. There is no green on this map. Red and orange are bad. 26 states trending up. More new coronavirus infections now in 26 states than a week ago. That's trending in the wrong direction.

The beige are states holding steady, 24 holding steady right now. So, 26 trending in the wrong direction. 24 trending water. No states. No states right now reporting fewer infections this week compared to the data last week. That is not a good map. That's why Dr. Fauci has that sober message.

In fact, three states deciding to impose new restrictions, Illinois, New Mexico and Washington state. It's interesting. Washington state, you see is holding steady. The governor still wants to impose new restrictions even though the positivity rate right there is pretty low. New Mexico is in deep red. That means 50 percent more new cases this week compared to last week. 50 percent or more. Illinois also trending up. New restrictions there.

Here is the case line that reminds us a, of our history and b, of what trouble could lie ahead. Again, 60,000 cases plus yesterday.

Let's just walk through this a little bit. Remember, the president said this would disappear back in April. That is here. The vice president said it would be largely behind us by Memorial Day. That is here. No, more than 80 percent of the infections in the United States have happened since after Memorial Day.

And you see here, up for the summer. The horrific summer surge just draw it out. We're heading back. You thought the summer was horrible. It's inevitable. We're going to reach that peak in the days ahead as the case count goes up. If this was horrible, what comes in the fall and the winter. That is what Dr. Fauci is talking about when he talks about the trends.

Here's another trend that we hope. We hope the number yesterday is wrong, meaning not the beginning of a trend, just a bad day. 933 Americans dying from COVID yesterday. You see the blue line. It had been below 1,000. All of the models and projections say giving the caseload we have, that is going to trend back up. We hope that's not the case, but that number tells you we need to keep an eye on that in the days and weeks ahead.

Something else to watch is hospitalizations. Again, the peak of the summer surge, you see the line down. Now starting to go back up. With all those cases, you get hospitalizations, death follows that. We've been through this cycle sadly before. And we will watch it.

Here's what tells you we will have more cases today, more cases tomorrow and more cases into the foreseeable future. 14 states have a positivity rate, 14 states above 10 percent. And look, 17 and 18 in Alabama and Mississippi, 52 - 52 percent in Iowa, 36 percent South Dakota, 35 percent Wyoming, 29 percent in Idaho, 21 percent Nevada.

Look at the high double-digit positivity rate. That means more cases today and the more likelihood more people will be infected tomorrow. 14 states with a positivity rate over 10 percent. If you're keeping count, 11 of those 14 have Republican governors. And it's just a fact many of these governors have been less reluctant to use government power for things like mask mandates.

[11:05:01]

Fourteen states above 10 percent. That means a lot of community spread. And it means Dr. Fauci once again saying, please, get back to the fundamentals.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAUCI: There are some fundamental ways to prevent the acquisition and transmission of SARS coronavirus 2. I have repeated this so many times publicly, but I think it's worth repeating now. The universal wearing of masks or cloth-faced coverings, maintaining physical distance at least six feet, avoiding crowds and congregate settings, particularly indoors. Remember that outdoor functions are always safer than indoor functions. And frequent washing of hands is important.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Joining us now is our CNN medical analyst and chief clinical officer at Providence health system, Dr. Amy Compton-Phillips. Dr. Compton-Phillips, grateful for your time today. You hear Dr. Fauci there. You just watched me go through the numbers and you just see above 60,000 cases, heading up toward a third peak. It appears inevitable to me that we're going to surpass the summer numbers. Is there any way that that's wrong?

DR. AMY COMPTON-PHILLIPS, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: We have to do an about- face and start doing exactly what Dr. Fauci said. You know, unfortunately, we have this kind of libertarian belief that we don't have to do what the science says. But if we do, we save lives and it's so simple.

It's not hard to wear a cloth face mask. It's not hard to stand further apart from people and it's not hard to wash your hands. And so, I would implore people to do that. And we don't have to go back to not only where we were this summer but likely even worse.

KING: And yet - and yet as you and I have had this conversation and we sadly had it too many times over the past seven months. You have the president at these rallies and interviews, and on Twitter saying Dr. Fauci is a Democrat. Dr. Fauci is not to be listened to. Dr. Fauci and the people who talk like him are idiots, those are the president of the United States' words. And the doctor we know he listens to most right now, Dr. Scott Atlas, who is a radiologist, says this about Dr. Fauci.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. SCOTT ATLAS, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS TASK FORCE MEMBER: I don't speak for Dr. Fauci at all. He's one - he's just one person on the task force. There are several people on the task force you know. And his background is virology immunology infectious disease. That's his approach. It's a very different background. It's a more limited approach. No, And, you know, I don't speak for him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Can you help me with the lunacy of that? Dr. Atlas, who is a radiologist, not infectious disease expert, says of Dr. Fauci, his background is in virology, immunology and infectious disease. It's a very different background. It's a more limited approach. It's a more limited approach. No, it's expertise in the very areas we're dealing with right now, right?

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: It is exactly expertise. You know, people in immunology, people in epidemiology, the people from the CDC, trained for this their entire lives. This is the moment we should be letting them shine. Letting them take point in this and not depend on people who study X-rays, you know, which is exactly what radiologists do, or business school, which is really important for most of the time.

But at a point when the problem with the economy is a virus, let's let people who know how to control the virus get the economy back on its feet by making sure that we can get this contagion under control.

KING: And let me ask you in closing about this new data from the American Academy of Pediatrics, is this something to worry about or is this something you think is normal. A 13 percent increase in cases among children over the past two weeks, 84,319 diagnosed between October 1st and October 15th. 741,000 tested positive since the start.

Is this, kids are back in school, the virus is coming back because of the fall, the winter. That's a normal number or is that something you look at, you say, well we better be worried about that?

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: Well, I definitely think we better be worried about that. First of all, because there is this myth that children cannot get infected. Clearly, they can.

And the second is that, as we have kids getting more and more infections, those kids live with adults, right? And those kids bring that germ back home to adults. And so, part of the reason we think we're seeing the kind of virulent spread were seeing at the moment is because people are back in congregate settings like schools getting exposed to the virus and then bringing back home again and allowing it to circulate on incumbered in communities. And so, it's absolutely a worry.

KING: Dr. Compton-Phillips, as always, grateful for your time and more importantly for your expertise. Thank you.

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: Thank you.

KING: The president had another temper tantrum yesterday because he got annoyed. An interviewer asked tough questions about his coronavirus response. The president not only abruptly ended the interview with Leslie Stahl's with "60 Minutes," he then tweeted suggesting she was being reckless and not wearing a mask at the White House.

When in fact, she was wearing a mask, except taking it off for the socially distanced interview. It's another example of the president undermining himself at a key moment in the campaign. New fights with Dr. Anthony Fauci, for example, at a time, campaign aides are imploring the president, stay focused on Joe Biden and comparing the two candidates approaches, the economy.

[11:10:09]

Joining our conversation Seung Min Kim of "The Washington Post" and CNN political commentator Alice Stewart.

Alice, I want to get to you first as a Republican strategist, 13 days to Election Day, the president of the United States is losing and the ditch is pretty deep and here he is picking yet another fight with a powerful woman and walking out of the room and saying I'm done here. Is that what you would advise him to do right now?

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely not, John. Look, for the next 13 days they need to talk about three things. That's COVID, COVID, and COVID. And that means talking about best practices with regard to mask wearing and social distancing. It means the plan to reopen schools and businesses. And also, their plans to really help and get a virus to put an end to this.

And look, the American people want to know what their next president is going to do for them, not what the press and Dr. Fauci is doing to the next president. So, the shift of focus needs to be back on what is top of mind for the voters and that is coronavirus. It's certainly the economy and race relations. And that is, certainly, I think a much more productive use of time and messaging.

KING: Well, to that point, Seung Min, the president did talk about COVID a bit last night in Erie, Pennsylvania. But he talks not about the case count going up right now including in the commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Including in just about 24 states around the country going up, the rest, 26 states going up, the rest treading water, the president instead talks about normal. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Before the plague came in, I had it made. I wasn't coming to Erie. I mean, I have to be honest, there was no way I was coming. I didn't have to. I would have called you said Erie, if you have a chance, get out and vote. We had this thing won. And then we got hit with the plague and I had to go back to work. Hello, Erie, may I please have your vote?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: He also said, Seung Min, it's ending. It's ending. It's not ending. If we're going back up a third hill, it looks just as dangerous if not more so than the summer.

SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. And I'm not quite sure kind of saying you don't really want to visit the voters who support you need right before an election is quite the most astute political strategy to go but the president does go his own way at times but you're right. He has tried to kind of wish away or talk away this virus for months and months and months. And yet the case has -- have persisted. The administration has come under considerable criticism for its handling of the virus.

And what the president is doing, you know by attacking Dr. Fauci, attacking a Lesley Stahl whose "60 Minutes" interview is supposed to be expected to center a lot on his handling of the coronavirus pandemic brings that issue back to the pandemic which is the top issue in this election. And you see Vice President Joe Biden kind of laying low this week ahead of the debate this week.

Obviously, he's come under criticism for doing so and not going out there and campaigning. But the spotlight is still on -- because of that, the spotlight is on the president, his outbursts against Fauci, the pandemic. And I would assume that's where Democrats would like the attention right now.

KING: So, Alice, what is it like in a campaign war room when you know time is short and you know you have a lot of hills that you need to climb? The president is trailing among his base voters, meaning white blue-collar voters who don't have a college education. We know that he's trailing in the suburbs. He barely won the suburbs in 2016 and he's trailing now.

And we know he has what could be - we can show you the numbers -- the historic gender gap right now. This is The New York Times/Siena College polling, Biden 58 percent among women nationally, Trump at 35. So, you see 23 points there. The NBC/Wall Street Journal poll actually has a little bigger than that.

What do you do? What do you do in a campaign war room right now when you know you have a problem here, problem here, problem here, how do you fix them all? Is it the debate? Does he have one more chance?

STEWART: Yes, you do exactly what they're doing, you go here, you go here, and you go there, and you talk to the voters. And I think the strategy that they're implementing now in terms of him not leaving anything on the field and going to these towns and talking with people is critical. And that's the key to his success back in 2016.

Joe Biden, I understand the need to prepare for the debate but not being out there and calling a lid for several days is simply not a good look. And I think that may come back to bite him. I am really not buying these polls that show that Trump is so far behind with regard to the women voters. These are the same polls that said Hillary Clinton were going to win women voters at this time of the game.

So, I'm not putting a lot of stock into that. But I am reading a lot into the fact that the Trump campaign is working hard, going out there, communicating the message and really fighting for every single vote that is possibly still out there to gain.

KING: I get the skepticism about the polls. Trust me. I share it although if you look deep into the numbers, there are a lot - they are a lot different from 2016. But we will see. We all need to be careful and have open minds, if you will.

Seung Min, one last thing. You're up on Capitol Hill today. A gentleman who wanted those halls for a long time, Senator Jack Danforth is now a member of the presidential debate commission.

[11:15:00]

He's a Republican. A conservative Republican from the great state of Missouri. And he's talking about the president's attacks on the debate commission saying, the president's apparent strategy is to challenge the validity of the election should he lose. We saw that strategy initially in claims that mail-in ballots are the tools for massive fraud.

He goes on to say, it's not the honor of the commission that is at stake here. What is at stake is Americans belief in the fairness of our presidential debates. And in turn, the presidential election.

When that faith is undermined, the damage to our country is incalculable. This is a leading conservative minister Republican voice telling the president to stop it. I don't suspect he will.

KIM: I don't suspect he will either, especially with the new changes that the commission instituted this week. I mean, you are going to see the president go after the format. You've already seen the campaign doing so. You have seen him go after each of the three debate moderators because that's what the president does.

A lot of times he struggles to make his case just on the substance and on the message. So, he goes after the moderators, he goes after the format of the commission, he attacks the messenger. And I suspect we'll see - again, depending how the debate goes on Thursday night, we may see more of that after the debate.

KING: We just might. Seung Min Kim, Alice Stewart, grateful for the reporting, insights, expertise. 13 days. It's going to be interesting.

And we continue the conversation. Up next, Barack Obama returns to the campaign trail today. Democrats hope he juices turnout. Some Democrats beginning to say out loud what they have been whispering, look at the numbers and maybe, just maybe, there's a blowout on the table.

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[11:20:48] KING: Blowout, blue wave, landslide, those are words many Democrats are afraid to say out loud because superstition is a staple of politics anyway and 2016 makes Democrats all the more nervous about believing what their eyes are seeing. But these are all facts 13 days out. Joe Biden is leading nationally and he's competitive in many states that usually lean Republican for president, states like Texas, Georgia, Arizona, Iowa, Florida, North Carolina.

Democrats are leading or very close in more than enough races to recapture the Senate majority. Democrats look poised to add to their House majority, and they might make gains in key state legislatures. Early voting looks good so for Democrats. And Democrats are awash in campaign cash for the final days.

Turnout is always the key to turning opportunity into victory. Today in Philadelphia and in videos targeting key voting groups, Barack Obama joins the effort to close the deal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know there's plenty out there to make people feel cynical and plenty of people are going to seize on that to convince you that your vote doesn't matter. It's not new. It's one of the oldest voter suppression tactics there is. What is new is a growing movement for justice, equality and progress on so many issues. This is really a tipping point and that momentum only continues if we win this election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Astead Herndon is a national political reporter for "The New York Times." Astead, I want to read a little bit from your piece today because Democrats, they are afraid to say this out loud. As you know, some are starting to say it but they're nervous.

"For some Democrats, Mr. Trump's attention to red states is also a sign for something else -- something few in the party want to discuss out loud, given their scars from Mr. Trump's surprise victory in 2016. It's an indication that Mr. Biden could pull off a landslide in November, achieving ambitious and rare electoral blowout that some Democrats think is necessary to quell any doubts or disputes by Mr. Trump that Mr. Biden won the election."

That is one key point. The Democrats think if we can win Florida, we can win Georgia, then game over. Trump can't say rigged elections, stole an election. But it's even deeper than that. Democrats are looking at this map right now and saying wow, we have a lot of golden opportunities.

ASTEAD HERNDON, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Yes. It's true on a lot of fronts. This is something Democrats are really wary to talk about through the summer months. They were saying it's going to tighten. It's going to tighten. We're not going to expect to have these leads ang gains as we get up to the fall or right up to the Election Day. We're weeks out and they're still looking like they have the mini roadmap, not just 270 electoral votes but to a big electoral college victory. As you said, states like Georgia, Texas, Iowa, Ohio, Florida, all places that are in play that are must-win places for Donald Trump.

So, for Biden and some of those Democrats on the ground in those states, they're starting to think a little bigger. They're starting to say Joe Biden needs to invest in these places and Democrats can close the deal here. For a couple of reasons. Logistics concerns are being able to follow on election night, a moral call to say if we beat Trump by a lot, Republicans will see that and think differently into a possible Joe Biden administration.

But they also want to lay the groundwork for a robust presidency. They don't want to have the kind of Obama-esque 2009 when they're trying to recalibrate and get to the middle where Republicans are and they don't think they have a mandate on the vote front on specific issues. They are saying this could be the groundwork for a robust presidency and progressive groups see this as a first step in kind of making the real case to Joe Biden, you have to listen to us.

KING: And the question is though can they close the deal. Number one, they're encouraged by early voting numbers but that doesn't matter if it's just people who are going to vote anyway. Early voting only matters if turning out people who might not show up on Election Day. So, you're just adding to your vote. You're not just getting that vote early. That's one thing.

If we put the map up, if you're Democrats, your Senate candidates also have money, your state parties also have money, Iowa. If Joe Biden is competitive there, maybe it tips the Senate race. North Carolina, Senate race there. There are two Senate races in Georgia. If you can win Florida, you're making a big statement and then look at Texas, we lean red but wow, if we can win Texas, what a statement that would send and what a possibility to flip legislative seats and even keep a Senate race in play.

[11:25:12]

The question is, can the Democrats coordinate, spend wisely and use their resources right in the final days?

Exactly. It's not the question of the

Keep a Senate race in play. The question is can the Democrats coordinate, spend wisely and use their resources right in the final days?

HERNDON: Exactly. It's not the question of the amount of resources. They are as you say awash in money across those different levels from presidential down to state legislature point. But the question is, will those investments, particularly at key times in these final pushes in key states, allow that tipping over the edge?

I heard one Democratic strategist say the most important numbers from Democrats, particularly in the southern states when you think of the Georgia and Texas ask not getting to 45 percent but moving from the last 5 percent up to 50 percent where you can get a real robust win.

I heard a Republican tell me recently that Georgia isn't a purple state just yet so Democrats can win one of those statewide elections, it's still a red state. So people are still having a wait-and-see approach because they know Democrats are close to making the breakthrough but it requires turning out new voters, new populations, Latino and voters who are in Georgia making young voters who are disproportionately nonwhite in Texas, converting them from residents to voters is something that these groups takes long-term investments and something that the campaigns have historically mixed records on. We will see in November the real turning point on that front.

KING: The opportunity is sitting right there. The question is can they seize and take advantage? Astead Herndon, grateful for your time and you insights. Excellent, fascinating 13 days ahead for us and a few days likely after to count them.

Up next, the legal fight over South Florida's coronavirus curfew.

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