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President Donald Trump Promises A Return To "Normal Life"; Dr. Anthony Fauci: We're Going To Have A Very Difficult Fall And Winter; Joe Biden Campaign Beats Donald Trump In Raising Money, Leads In National Polls With 13 Days To Go Until Election. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired October 21, 2020 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

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JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm John King in Washington. Thank you for sharing your day with us. There are13 days left on the U.S. election calendar. Critical debate tomorrow night and a big battleground state focus today for the candidates.

Now we know from poll after poll most Americans think the president has done a bad job managing the Coronavirus pandemic. But the president has a much different view of his own performance. The president says, if he had a Coronavirus do-over, he would not do much differently. And he predicts that a return to normal is just around the corner.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's ending. Normal life, that's all we want. You know what we want? Normal life. Normal life will finally resume and next year will be the greatest economic year in the history of our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Yes, we all want normal. But judge by the numbers normal is not where we are right now. Two horrifying COVID-19 peaks behind us, and we're right now are staring at a third. Tuesday, 60,000 plus new infections recorded in the United States, it's the highest single day total for Tuesday since the end of July. The daily average of new cases right now just below 60,000.

This hour there are zero states trending in the right direction? Zero. Deaths ticked up on Tuesday as well. 933 American lives lost to the Coronavirus yesterday. The pattern over the pandemic we all know is the death lags cases, which makes it less likely that jump yesterday is just cases are a blip. Dr. Fauci this morning says Americans need to prepare for a trying winter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Unfortunately, we've plateaued again to about 40 to 50,000 cases a day. And as we're getting into the cooler weather, we're getting more and more cases. So this looks like we're going to have a very difficult fall and winter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: The president, of course, knows he must mount another closing week election comeback. And his temper, his anxiety obvious. He abruptly ended a "60 minutes" taping yesterday and continues to pick top fights with the man you just listened to, this Top Infectious Disease Expert Dr. Anthony Fauci all of this coming against the advice of his own political advisers.

Let's get straight to the White House and CNN's Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlan, the president walking out of this 60 minutes interview with Lesley Stahl, apparently because he didn't like Coronavirus questions, picking fights with Dr. Fauci not what the campaign team wants right now.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No, that's not what they thought the closing message would be with less than two weeks to go before Election Day. And you're seeing the president do things that are entirely predictable for him.

Abruptly end an interview with "60 Minutes" because he doesn't like the line of questioning from Lesley Stahl, that's not surprising if you saw the president's sit down with her in 2016 four years ago which he did with the vice president.

But it's this pattern John, that we're seeing in the closing days which of course are viewed as critical. But some political advisers kind of believe the race is already decided at this point and they are not all optimistic about the president's chances. And so, you see him taking his anger out on people like "60 Minutes" as he's now threatening to release the interview before it even comes out on Sunday.

That's because they were taping it separately at the White House than the CBS News cameras were already taping it. So I think it's kind of unusual what the White House was doing. And then also these fights with Dr. Anthony Fauci, these sustained attacks on someone who is working in this administration and win their effort to produce a vaccine, so obviously we can get out of this pandemic.

And so, that's not the closing political message that advisers were hoping the president would go for. And you got a sense of that when you hear him read from his scripted remarks as he was doing last night at the beginning of that rally in Pennsylvania where I was where he was talking about Joe Biden's economic message compared to his, and how he believes he's the better person suited to bring back the economy.

But John, when the president does other things like the "60 Minutes" stunt, like going after Dr. Fauci, that's what rises to the top of the news cycle. And that's what breaks through. And so, the question is whether or not his other messages, the ones that are underlying and obviously not trumpeted as much by the candidate himself are breaking through with voters. And his own advisers are worried that they are not, John.

KING: Kaitlan Collins, very important moment. Live reporting from the White House. I appreciate it. Thank you. Joining our conversation now our CNN Medical Analyst and the Former CDC Disease Detective, Dr. Seema Yasmin. Dr. Yasmin, it's good to see you today.

The president in the Town Hall with Sinclair says not much, he was asked what would you do differently if you could go back now to the beginning of the Coronavirus pandemic and he says not much. Is that the right answer?

DR. SEEMA YASMIN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Absolutely not. Look at the death toll that we've faced here in the U.S in just the last nine months. About 220,000 Americans dead. How can you say you would not try and do everything differently to try and save those lives?

[12:05:00]

DR. YASMIN: We talked last week John about that Yammer (ph) study that showed if America had been on a level with some other developed nations in the world, we would have seen 93,000 American lives saved.

So there have been such basic errors in the pandemic response. And the president just kind of try to push them under a rug and even saying we're turning a corner. What corner is there to turn? This is like an endless loop. It's a nightmare of a loop. We haven't turned any corner. In fact all we're doing is heading higher and higher up this peak of the third surge.

KING: If we've turned a corner, we've turned it for the worse. Going back up now around 60,000 new infections a day. And again, when you compare to where we were in the summer, it appears inevitable, because we've been through this sadly, you get more cases, they start multiplying exponentially.

And now if you go and yet I want you to listen here. We just talked about the president; he says if he could go back in time, he would not do much differently. In the question of what do you do in the here and now, listen to the doctor, the president now listens to most radiologist Dr. Scott Atlas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. SCOTT ATLAS, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS ADVISER: This is not like we lock down and hopes for herd immunity, or we hope for herd immunity. That's not the issue. The issue is we must open up because we're killing people misguided idea that we're going to eliminate all risk from life.

We're going to stop people from taking any risk that they are well aware of. We're going to close down businesses. We're going to stop schools. These are inappropriate and destructive policies.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: Dr. Atlas thinks we should tough it out, if you listen to it there. Open businesses, open schools, get the government out of the way, tough it out.

DR. YASMIN: He doesn't understand public health. He is a Neuroradiologist, he is not a virologist, he is not an immunologist, he is not a public health physician. Unfortunately this is the person who the president is paying most attention to in terms of scientific advice.

And what Scott Atlas is saying is tweeting things like masks don't work when we know absolutely that they do. And John, as you were playing that I was counting at least four false hoods in there, including one that talks about oh, we're kind of being promised this idea that we can eliminate all risk.

That's not what public health physicians say. We are realists, we believe in harm reduction and risk reduction, not saying that you can make things completely safe, but telling the public here are three or four things that you can do that can make your world a little bit safer.

So it's really unfortunate the president is listening to him, not an expert, not someone who understands public health instead of listening to the actual people who know what they are talking about.

KING: When you say the actual people who know what they are talking about, everybody scrubs the data you mentioned the study we talked about last week. These new studies come out, we try to dig deep into them, and we try to see what can we do differently, what have we learned?

Where are we wrong a couple of weeks ago, because you're inevitably going to be wrong sometimes when you're dealing with something so new and dramatic? There's a new CDC numbers out about deaths in America.

And it says that, an estimated 299,000 excess deaths occurred between late January through October. 198,000 of those have been attributed to COVID-19, the largest increase seen among adults, 25 to 44 years old, among Hispanic and Latino populations there.

So essentially if you look at those numbers, there are 100,000 deaths missing if you will. They have attributed some to COVID and the rest are just an increase of what would normally happen in a normal year. Explain what that means as a detective in the middle of the pandemic. What clues are you looking for to say why is this happening?

DR. YASMIN: This is a really important point and I'm so glad you asked this question, John. Because anyone watching who thinks I'm almost so worried about COVID-19, I've had it, I think I'm immune or I'm just not so bothered about, I don't think it's serious.

This data is telling you, but with a pandemic like this one that's been so negligently managed, those are not going to effect on all aspects of health care. People are delaying the health care; people are worried about going to see the doctor for other concerns, people are not getting their cancer treatments on time.

So it's not just COVID-19 that's hitting America hard directly, it's the indirect impacts of the pandemic not being managed well. Just last week eight Missouri hospitals stopped accepting ambulances.

And that's not just because - that was because of COVID-19, but the impact is not just on COVID-19 patients, the impact then trickles down to everybody with whatever kind of ailments you have, cancer, heart attacks. So that's what this study is showing.

And that's why it's really important we get this under control especially in flu season. It just keeps dragging on. It's going to keep impacting Americans from all walks of life, COVID-19 or cancer or heart attacks, every single health area is being affected by this.

KING: A sober conversation, but Dr. Yasmin, as always grateful for your time and your expertise. Thank you so much. When we come back, you can look at the map, you can look at the polls. Some people say this will get tight. This will be closed at the end. Some Democrats look though look at the numbers and they think, wow, we have a landslide on our hands.

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[12:10:00]

KING: Thirteen days out, there are many different ways to look at this map. The one thing that's unmistakenable is Joe Biden has a significant lead right now, we have him at 290 electoral votes, it takes 270 to win, the president at 163, meaning he has a long way to go.

So some Democrats look at these maps and they say OK, look at these toss up states, all of them carried by President Trump last time. Look right now Biden, we lean Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin to Biden.

Some Democrats remember 2016 and they say, well, what if this happens, right? What if this happens? What if the president wins all the toss up states and these come back into play, then you're in a death match, right? Then you're in a death match the same three states that made Donald Trump President we're fighting again.

But other Democrats come back to this map where we're right now and they say, what, look at this, look at this. Look at the spending, Joe Biden and outside groups, $645 million since September 1st to 388, the Democrats are outspending the Republicans. Look at these battleground state polls.

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KING: Joe Biden is in play everywhere, leading in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, a slight lead in Arizona, slight lead in Florida, slight lead in North Carolina, slight lead in Georgia, or Iowa, Ohio, Texas down 4. That's in play, right? So some Democrats look at this and they say wait a minute, what if we had a landslide? What if Joe Biden could do this? Including Maine second congressional

district. What if Joe Biden ran the board? Joe Biden ran the board, you get a blowout. Now is that going to happen? Probably not, right? We've all lived through American politics. But it isn't because of the money it is a possibility that Biden could win some of these states.

Some Democrats even say you know what, we can get Texas. Why is it important to compete? Not just for the presidency, senate races. Senate races, Senate races, Senate races. So Democrats are looking at this map saying it's possible, it's possible, we could have a very big win late in the campaign bringing into the race now Philadelphia today to help turn out voters the former President Barrack Obama.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know there's plenty out there to make people feel cynical and plenty of people are going to seize on that to convince you that your vote doesn't matter. It's not new. It's one of the oldest voter suppression tactics there is.

What is new is a growing movement for justice, equality and progress on so many issues. This is really a tipping point. And that momentum only continues if we win this election. In times as polarized as these, your vote doesn't just matter; it matters more than ever before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Joining the conversation our Senior Political Reporter, Nia- Malika Henderson and CNN's Jeff Zeleny who is in Philadelphia where we'll see President Obama later today. Nia-Malika Henderson, we'll start with you, because again some Democrats look at this, they're haunted by 2016, they say what, looks great. But it also looked great four years ago.

But other Democrats given the money advantage, given the fact that the president is still trying to lock down his base, they look at this map and they think there's a blowout possibility. Not probability but at least possibility.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: I think that's right. I was just texting with a democrat who was saying that very thing, that a blowout is possible but also saying it's not something they would ever say out loud or publicly. They don't want to telegraph such confidence because of what happened last go round.

And they do see some tightening in some of these polls as well internally, particularly in these battleground states. But listen, this is a different campaign than we saw in 2016 from Democrats. A ton of money, a ton of close races and a different candidate in Donald Trump, somebody who doesn't really have a vision for the country in the way that he did have a vision for the country in 2016, that was based on economics and what he would do in terms of immigration and the wall. There isn't a kind of build the wall mantra from this president this

go-round. So you've got Democrats feeling like they are in a good position and feeling like they are on offense in a way that they weren't necessarily in 2016.

KING: The way you turn, Jeff, opportunity into victory is through turnout. I'm going to switch maps. Because you're in the great City of Philadelphia today and President Obama will be there, the former president to help with the turnout. If you look, Pennsylvania, we all know this because we lived it. It went from blue to red.

One of the reasons it went from blue to red is, even if you come down in Philadelphia, yes, Hilary Clinton won and won convincingly in Philadelphia, but the raw numbers, the raw numbers were down from 2012 and from 2008, in part because of African-American turnout.

I could go and show you this in Detroit, I could go and show is this in Milwaukee, I could go and show you this in North Carolina. How important is President Obama to get African-Americans and suburban voters to turn out in higher numbers, which is, again, how you take the opportunity they have right now and actually turn it into victory?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: John, it's critically important. That is why Barack Obama is starting his campaign push here in Philadelphia, trying to reach out specifically to African-American men, to younger voters as well, and, of course, suburban women. But particularly those who may not be as enthused about Joe Biden, but certainly do not necessarily like the president.

So the point here is the 20 electoral votes in the State of Pennsylvania if Joe Biden wins those that are one big block for Donald Trump in terms of his path to 270. At this point in the race it's about the path to 270. So that is why Barack Obama is starting here. He wants to recreate some of that excitement from 2008, from his re- election in 2012 as well.

There was not nearly as much fall off among African-American voters here in Philadelphia as there was in Detroit and Milwaukee, but they could certainly have more turnout. So that is why Barack Obama is here, no question.

But it's a big test for his appeal as well. He pretty much has a winning streak in terms of his own races. But in races he's not been on the ballot in 2016 and the midterms of 2010 and 2014, he's not done as well.

[12:20:00]

ZELENY: So it's difficult to transfer your popularity, even when you're Barack Obama in a Democratic Party, onto someone else like Joe Biden. But that's why he's starting here and he's targeting black voters and young voters who need to be just a little bit more excited about Joe Biden.

KING: It's an excellent point. Nia-Malika Henderson, let's stay in Philadelphia for a minute, because a lot of people do think if there's not this blow out scenario, if it does get close at the end, that Pennsylvania, this 20 Electoral votes would be the difference.

The president at a rally yesterday up in Erie, Pennsylvania, we can go back in time and go back to 2012 and you see Erie is blue, this is one of the tests in this campaign, right? One of the places that voted for Barack Obama and then switched to vote for Donald Trump, listen to the president in Erie.

Again, he has a difficult challenge. The countries in the middle of the pandemic, the case count is getting worse at the moment, and the president wants to convince enough voters in the right places all is fine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We're rounding the turn on the pandemic. Normal life, that's all we want. You know what we want, normal life. It's a choice between our plan to kill the virus or Biden's plan to kill the American dream.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: So I switch maps as we're in the sound bite there. Because if you're Donald Trump and you want to change this map, you need this debate tomorrow night to convince the American people we're in a good place in the pandemic.

If you're Joe Biden, you've prosecuted the case against the president saying the reason this looks so good right now is because most voters think the president has mishandled this pandemic. This debate tomorrow night given this state of the race is enormous for both of these gentlemen.

HENDERSON: You're exactly right. And I think the question for Donald Trump is a "90 Minute" debate in front of millions and millions of Americans, who have in many ways not only made their mind up about this election, made their mind up about this president's handling of COVID, that is the audience.

Can he turn that around in just 90 minutes given what we've seen from this president over the last seven or eight months? It's an enormous challenge. I think, again, it's only 90 minutes. We know what the subjects are going to be. Any range of issues, I think he's going to use it to really try to introduce some of the conspiracy theories he believes in about Hunter Biden into this debate.

But again, that's very much off topic from where the masses of Americans are in terms of his failures, not only in terms of COVID, but also in terms of character. So we'll see what he does last night.

But my goodness, it is a heavy, heavy lift for this president and Joe Biden in a fairly good position. He did well in the last debate, did well in his Town Hall. And at least according to the map right now is on course to rebuild that blue wall that crumbled in 2016.

KING: And so Jeff, here we are 13 days out, and there are two pieces of any campaign. Number one, the most important are the candidates. And as Nia notes, they will debate tomorrow night in the final debate. It's hard to understate the importance of that, that's the candidates. Then it comes down to the campaigns, and the mechanics of the campaigns.

And again when you have this map up, I just want to take a look at this. If you come up and look at this right now, in addition to Joe Biden having more money than Donald Trump, addition to the Democratic Campaign Committee is having more money than the Republicans.

Michael Bloomberg is going to spend $100 million in Florida, Priorities USA, Democratic Super Pac $75 million spending in the general election, Future Forward spending $102 million on Biden plus Texas and Maine Senate races.

Democratic challengers in eight key races outraised their Republican opponents for senate races in Arizona, Colorado, Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Montana, North Carolina, and South Carolina. The money advantage the Democrats have going into the final days is one of the reasons they think, not just for president, but for Senate, House, state legislatures they have a golden opportunity. The question is can they finish?

ZELENY: That is the question. And money certainly is a sign of enthusiasm. There's no question about it. These Democratic Senate candidates who are challenging in these Republican incumbents, they did not expect to have this massive financial advantage. John, is it going to pay off in every race? Probably not.

Democrats would have to run the table through some very red states like South Carolina, even some states like Iowa and Maine it's difficult to unseat an entrenched incumbent. But Democrats certainly are driving this in terms of having all of the advantages after --. So that is one of the reasons that Democrats usually about this time of year they start to worry about complacency.

So that is one of the things that they are talking about behind the scenes. You have to get every vote out here. Republicans are about as glum as I can recall them in several weeks John, in talking to several Republican officials particularly in senate races. They do not like this direction largely because of what the president is talking about.

He's not talking about the economy; he's not focusing on that. He's still trying to say, oh, the Coronavirus is fine. What the reality is, everyone is living this in their own lives. So after the debate tomorrow night, it is one more chance for the president to try and redirect this to the topic on the economy.

[12:25:00]

ZELENY: But John, millions and millions and millions of more voters will have already cast ballots by the time those two men come on the debate stage.

KING: That's a very important point. Some people say 30, maybe 40 percent of the votes already cast by the time that happens. We'll keep counting and as it plays out. Jeff Zeleny and Nia-Malika Henderson, grateful for the reporting and the insights. Up next for us back to the coronavirus, Boston schools going all remote as COVID-19 cases in the city climb.

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