Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Trump and Biden Face Off in Final Presidential Debate Tonight; CDC Ensemble Forecast Shows Up to 247,000 U.S. Deaths by Nov. 13; Feds Say, Russia and Iran Have Interfered with Presidential Election. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired October 22, 2020 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:00]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN NEWSROOM: All right. It is a huge day. It is debate night and we're glad you're with us. Good morning, everyone. I'm Poppy Harlow.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

Just hours from now, President Trump and Joe Biden face off for the final time before Election Day, and there are new rules tonight, including a mute button, but don't expect the president to play by them, his aides say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALYSSA FARAH, ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT: The topics themselves, I'd say, he's going to answer those topics but he's also going to, frankly, answer the questions he wants to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Okay. One of the key topics of the debate tonight, the growing health crisis in this country. And just moments ago the CDC projected up to 247,000 Americans will die from COVID in this country by November 14th. Cases right now are surging in 31 states. We're following those headlines.

Let's begin though with our Jessica Dean, who joins us in Nashville. It's the final one, Jess, and there is a mute button. How is it going to work?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Yes. We have made it to the last presidential debate, Jim and Poppy. They are setting up here inside the debate hall finalizing everything. You mentioned the mute button, so let me walk you through these rule changes from the last debate.

So here is what we can expect tonight. Each candidate is going to have two minutes of uninterrupted speaking time at the beginning of each new topic. Now, at that time, the opposing candidate's microphone will be turned off, will be muted. After the two-minute remarks though, there will be a period of what they're calling open discussion, that's when the mics will be reopened, so we can imagine how that will go.

Again, running you through topics to expect tonight, fighting COVID- 19, American families, race in American, climate change, national security and leadership.

You can imagine we heard from President Trump's adviser there that he's going to answer what he wants to answer. We also know that his advisers have cautioned him, warned him, that this is really his last chance to change public opinion of his behavior in some key demographic groups, which includes women and senior voters. And we know that they told him to kind of turn down the temperature from last time.

He has indicated he is willing to do that but that he is going to push back pretty hard if he thinks he's being treated unfairly. And he has kind of bread crumbed that and telegraphed that he already he thinks he is being treated unfairly. So we will see how that all developed throughout the evening.

As for Vice President Biden, he spent the last several days preparing for this debate. We know that that campaign and Biden are preparing for personal attacks against Biden and his family. They are prepared for what they say is for President Trump to bully and deflect from the stage and they are trying to focus in on the same thing that they did last time, which is to find a way for Biden to speak directly to the American people.

One of his senior advisers on our air last night saying that this is about the temperament, presidential temperament, and that the debate will be what it will be, but that's what Americans will be judging. So we will see how it unfolds tonight, guys.

SCIUTTO: Yes. You remember those last moments of the debate when Biden deliberately looked into the camera and spoke to the American people. Jessica Dean, thanks very much.

Among the topics we expect to be covered in the final debate, election interference and, of course, the coronavirus pandemic.

HARLOW: So let's bring in Sabrina Siddiqui, a CNN Political Analyst and National Politics Reporter for The Wall Street Journal, and David Swerdlick, CNN Political Analyst and Assistant Editor at The Washington Post.

Okay. David, if you were moderating tonight, what's the important question you would ask?

DAVID SWERDLICK, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Poppy, good morning. I would spend 50 percent of the time on coronavirus. A couple of reasons, one, it's the biggest issue that affects the most people and it encompasses some of those other topics. Coronavirus touches health care, it touches race in America and it touches leadership. That's the issue that everyone is dealing with. And President Trump, by most accounts has failed in his ability or his willingness to address it, everything from allocation of resources to mask-wearing.

So I think this really should be the focus, obviously, there will be other issues covered in the debate, but that just has to be the focus. These side jags into some other issues that we've seen in the other debates have been interesting and important but they're just not what this election is hinging on at the moment.

SCIUTTO: Sabrina, we know that the president is going to attempt to focus on the story of Hunter Biden's emails, allegations of impropriety with China. And I know there's debate, there has been debate within the Biden within team about how if to respond to that directly. Any answers to if they will and how they should best give an answer to that?

[10:05:03]

SABRINA SIDDIQUI, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think this is a scenario that former Vice President Joe Biden has been preparing for. He has been hunkered down in debate prep all of this week. He hasn't held any public events in anticipation of tonight. And last time, the president also tried to go after Hunter Biden, he repeatedly interrupted and brought up where he claimed were conflicts of interest and some of -- many of the unfounded claims that he has made about Hunter Biden's work overseas. And he even brought up Hunter Biden's struggles with addiction.

And, actually, the campaign, the Biden campaign believes one of his strongest moments in the last debate was when he looked directly at the camera and said, look, like many other Americans out there, my son has struggled with and overcome addiction. I'm proud of him, I love him. They felt like that really resonated with a lot of American families who may have at least on that front faced a similar situation at home. And so I think that some of these personal attacks have not really resonated with the public.

And as far as the dealings -- hunter Biden's dealings are concerned, there was an entire impeachment investigation over this very subject with the president, of course, trying to use the power of the presidency to investigate his political opponent. So I think you could very well expect that Joe Biden will be prepared to hit back if this is something the president wants to talk about.

But, by and large, the Biden campaign has dismissed, this as a distraction from the president's handling of the coronavirus pandemic, which, to David's point, I think you can absolutely expect will once again be Joe Biden's focus. Especially with cases, once again, on the rise, more than 8 million Americans who have been infected by the virus, a death toll that has surpassed 220,000. That is what they believe this debate and this election will be about.

HARLOW: David, the president is going to try to make it a lot about the economy. You could tell in the Lesley Stahl clip released by 60 Minutes this morning. She says, what's the biggest domestic issue. And he doesn't say COVID. He says it's the economy, et cetera, the greatest economy in the world, we're going to get it back. My question to you is on that front. Do you think Joe Biden needs to really, clearly defend his tax plan? Because he said on day one he would raise a number of taxes but not on anyone making under $400,000 a year. But there are holes in that that I think the president is going to try to poke at. And I wonder how you think Biden needs to respond

SWERDLICK: I think Biden has to do two things. He has to, one, as you say, Poppy, make clear that the increase in taxes that's proposed in his plan is on earners making over $400,000 a year and not average middle class Americans. $400,000 doesn't make you part of the 1 percent but it's far more than the average person makes.

And he has to be very clear and precise about that and say why he wants to do it. Americans don't like their taxes raised, so if you're doing it, go ahead and give them a reason.

The other thing that Vice President Biden has to do that Democrats, in general, have not been great at, that I saw former President Obama trying to do in a couple of appearances yesterday, is take credit for the economic recovery under the Obama/Biden administration.

The stock market went up dramatically over the eight years of the Obama/Biden administration, unemployment went down pretty significantly over their eight years, but Democrats have not found a concise way to put that message out over and over again, and I think that has hurt them and let President Trump steal some of the economic glory.

SCIUTTO: So it would be an unwise bet to imagine that President Trump dramatically changes his approach given after four years, so many times, we've been at the point where some advisers are saying moderate, go for independent voters, et cetera. So let's set that aside for a moment. Do the changes that the Presidential Debate Commission has put in, including this mute button, do they solve the problem, you think, Sabrina, that we saw in the first debate, interruptions, shouting match?

SIDDIQUI: Well, only to some extent, as Jessica Dean was pointing out. These changes only affect portions of the debate. There are, of course, six topics. And for the opening statements that each candidate will be provided at the start of each of those topics, they will be allowed to speak uninterrupted while the candidate's microphone will be muted. But then it will go into open discussion.

So I think you could fully expect that President Trump will use some of the same tactics he did in the previous debate. I can tell you, my colleagues have a story at The Wall Street Journal where sources have said that he was actually really pleased with his debate performance in Cleveland. And there was much pushback. He thought that his aggressive posture was a success.

And it took Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law, to implore other people close to the president to tell him that he needed to rethink his strategy, that he appeared too angry and too aggressive. Also as of Wednesday, sources told The Wall Street Washington Journal that the president had not attended any debate prep sessions either formally or informally.

[10:10:04]

So it's quite clear, and we've seen this on the stump, we've seen it through his tweet, his mind is elsewhere. He has been occupied with matters not related to the debate. He is much more fixated on what he can do to change the trajectory of the race. We see him preemptively attack the debate moderator, Kristen Welker, an excellent journalist, trying to already lower expectations for the debate, claim that it's biased against him. So I really don't think that much will meaningfully change.

And to your point, there's a smaller percentage of undecided voters out there, so it's not clear at this point with the president trailing in both national and battleground polls, barring anything significant, that tonight is really going to change the trajectory of the race with 12 days to go until the election.

SCIUTTO: Yes, we'll see.

HARLOW: Thank you both. We'll all be up late watching tonight. Sabrina Siddiqui, David Swerdlick, I appreciate your time this morning.

We have a lot ahead this hour, Russia and Iran interfering in the U.S. election, they're doing it right now, full stop. What it means for national security just days ahead of the election.

SCIUTTO: Plus, a disturbing new update from the CDC, predicting deaths from the coronavirus in this country could reach 247,000 in less than a month.

And schools in Boston forced to switch to online learning due to a spike in cases there. We're going to speak to the mayor.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:15:00]

SCIUTTO: All right. This morning some good news on the pandemic. Our Elizabeth Cohen is reporting that Moderna, the pharmaceutical company, has now reached its target of 30,000 participants in a phase three trial of its vaccine. That means all volunteers have received the first shot. The participants receive a second injection four weeks later. This is, of course, the Moderna that is doing this in conjunction with the NIH, one of the more promising vaccine trials.

HARLOW: Yes, for sure. And they had trouble getting enough minority participants, so it seems like they reached that key number.

Also this morning, the CDC is forecasting there will be 245,000 to 247,000 coronavirus deaths in the U.S. in just the next few weeks, by November the 14th. With us now is our Medical Analyst, Dr. Leana Wen. Good morning to you, Doctor. It's very good to have you.

So, I mean, it's just a hard number to get your head around. And the fact that it's colder outside, all of these things, you've got the schools in Boston all closing. We'll talk to the mayor about that next. What do we need to buckle up for here?

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: We need to be prepared for a very difficult winter ahead. Because when we look at the numbers that we have down, we don't have just one or two hot spots, we actually have virus hot spots surging all across the country and it's not even that cold yet. Some parts of the country may be cold but many parts people can still easily be outdoors.

And so I'm extremely concerned about what's ahead. We are already seeing test positivity rates that are very high, which means that we're not even detecting the infections that are there. And we know that the new places where the virus is surging include areas that have pretty limited health care capacity, rural areas, as an example, that don't have much infrastructure. And places like Indiana, Utah, Wisconsin, North Dakota are already reporting that their hospitals are reaching capacity.

So there's some very difficult times that are ahead of us. And we have to hunker down and get ready for the winter.

SCIUTTO: I want to look back for a moment because Columbia University has a new study that estimates at least 130,000 deaths in this country, perhaps as many as 210,000 could have been avoided if there was more robust federal coordination and leadership. I'm quoting from the report there. I wonder if you agree that what was lacking in the response here nationally had those deadly consequences.

WEN: I do agree, Jim. When we look back, even at the initial response, if we had testing early on, we could have avoided the lockdowns that wreaked so much havoc on our economy. If we had used the time that the lockdowns bought us and really ramped up our testing, contact tracing, we also would have been able to rein in the infection at that point.

There were so many other things that should have been done, for example, having enough personal protective equipment. If we did, we might not have lost so many health care workers who died because they didn't have masks. And not only our frontline workers, who are health care workers, but also bus drivers, grocery store cashiers, people who work in our nursing homes died because they didn't have enough PPE, all of these things that were preventable before.

But I hope that the American people will see that their actions have made a difference, that in the absence of federal leadership, that individuals did their part and can still do their part moving forward wearing masks, physical distancing, doing these things that protect ourselves and our loved ones.

HARLOW: Why are COVID cases rising so much in the last few weeks among children, up 13 percent in the last two weeks, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics?

WEN: I think it's two things. One is that kids are back in school. And so we did expect for the overall numbers to rise as kids are up and about more. It's not only school, but also they're doing play dates and extra curriculars that also contribute to this.

And also we're seeing the overall numbers increase. And it's not possible to wall off children. If the level community spread is increasing, we're going to see that in kids too.

But I actually think, Poppy, that this is a significant underestimate. We don't have enough testing but, in particular, we don't have enough testing for children. It's very hard for young kids to find places that will test them, and especially because kids are asymptomatic or tend to be mildly symptomatic, I think we're actually missing many cases of children.

[10:20:05]

HARLOW: Wow. Thank you, Dr. Wen. Good to have you, as always.

So we just talked about these spikes, and they're so bad that all of the Boston public schools are now being closed.

SCIUTTO: Yes, sad news. Joining us now, the mayor of Boston, Marty Walsh. Mayor, thanks for taking the time this morning.

MAYOR MARTY WALSH (D-BOSTON, MA): Thanks for having me today.

SCIUTTO: So we've seen other cities take different approaches when they've seen cases spike among children. New York had more targeted school closures in and around the areas where they saw spikes, kept the others open. And I just wonder, is shutting down the whole system, in your view, necessary or is there a way to do this in a more targeted fashion?

WALSH: Well, I think right now in Boston, our infection rate went from 4.4 percent in one week to 5.7 percent. So that's a pretty big jump. We haven't seen that type of jump since May, quite, honestly, and the virus. We have done a phased-in approach here in our school, the highest needs students started in school. Those are the kids that are in-person learning now.

So when we shut down district, we didn't have to shut down the entire district. We had about anywhere from 1,300 to 2,600 kids in school. We're beginning to -- today was supposed to be the next phase of reopening, where our kindergarteners were supposed to start school today, and we have delayed that a couple of weeks.

The doctor before you said it. I mean, it's about making sure that we are trying to contain the virus, stop the spread of the virus, and putting that many people in the building at this particular moment is not the smartest thing to do.

We have spikes in certain neighborhoods in the city of Boston, but the way our district works is kids get bussed all over the city. So you might come from a district that has high numbers and go to a district that has low numbers, and we want to be able to keep our kids safe.

HARLOW: What happens to the special needs students? What happens to the non-verbal students that were brought up by the superintendent yesterday, and those without the technology access they need at home or the parents at home to help them with it? I mean, can they go to some of your school buildings still and you'll have some supervision for them, or can none of them go?

WALSH: No. We're working right now on a plan to do some in-home services. We're going to be doing some announcing of that next week. We're also looking at the idea of using some of our buildings.

It was devastating for me to have to close the schools yesterday. I was at school October 1st, which was the first day. And these kids are the highest needs kids in our city, and they were just so happy to be in school. Many of them non-verbal, many have other issues they're dealing with, their families are dealing with. So we're looking at providing at-home services, which isn't the same thing as having in- classroom services, obviously.

And we're also monitoring the numbers very closely. If we get to 5 percent or below for a two consecutive week period, we'll be bringing those kids right back to school. They're the first ones back.

We're certainly better prepared today than we were in March when we closed the district down, but it's still -- it's very challenging for these families. I mean, they're dealing with a lot. These kids hadn't been in school for almost seven months when they go back. It was all opt in, so parents chose to opt in.

And it's really -- I feel really sad about it. I feel sad that we're at this situation. But we need people to protect themselves. We need people to wear masks. We need people stop congregating. We need people to take this virus seriously. And here in Boston, we did for a long time. And we had 12 weeks of 1.8 to 2.8 percent infection rate. And now, we're at 5.7.

So, clearly, something is going on here. And we're asking people, particularly people under the age of 30, to really -- to look out for each other. You might not be worried about the virus but you're impacting other people.

SCIUTTO: Yes, and young people have been so key to the outbreaks in a number of states. Mayor Marty Walsh, we wish you and the people of Boston and the kids of Boston the best of luck.

WALSH: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, just days from Election Day, 12 of them, we're learning that Iran and Russia are actively interfering in the 2020 election. We're going to have the details, the extent, with two experts ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:25:00] SCIUTTO: ODNI John Ratcliffe says that both Iran and Russia are actively attempting to interfere in the 2020 election. Both countries have, and this is key, obtained U.S. voter registration information. What's the significance?

HARLOW: There's a lot.

Let's bring in Miles Taylor, former Homeland Security Chief of Staff, and Elizabeth Neumann, former Assistant Secretary of Homeland Security under President Trump. It's very good to have you both. There are so many headlines here so let's try to just break through it for a few folks.

I guess, Miles, if we could begin with you, because it's not a total surprise that this happened but you also say there is a good thing that we've learned about this, right, proactively, publicly at this moment and what it tells us about our ability, the ability of the intelligence community at this point to spot this stuff.

MILES TAYLOR, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. The brazen activity that we're seeing here from the Iranians and the Russians tells us a few things. The first thing it tells us is maybe not necessarily a good news story and that is the bad guys are back.

[10:30:03]

And the president and the White House have not done enough in the past few years to deter foreign adversaries.