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Debate Night Offers Trump Final Chance to Reset Campaign; Barrett Nomination Advances Out of Committee; Trump Aide: President Plans Big Focus on Hunter Biden. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired October 22, 2020 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:09]

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. Hello, everybody. I'm John King in Washington. Thank you so much for sharing your day with us.

It is debate night in America, the final time President Trump and Joe Biden will share a stage. And today is full of new developments certain to be debate flash points. Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee this morning ignored a Democratic boycott and advanced Judge Amy Coney Barrett Supreme Court nomination to the Senate floor. It is near certain now she will be confirmed early next week. Tilting the high court to the right, justice deals with Obamacare and 2020 election challenges.

Plus, new unemployment claims are bleak again, but not quite as bad as other recent weeks. The coronavirus economy is a big debate topic.

Here's a live look at the debate hall, Nashville, Tennessee perhaps we use these words too much, but the stakes tonight, are giant. The president is losing as he was when he walked on stage for that final debate four years ago. Tonight, is his last big stage to change the 2020 campaign dynamic.

Goal number one for Democrat Joe Biden is protect his lead. And he knows the president is coming to attack his policies and to attack his family.

As the candidates meet and millions of you vote early, there are new concerns today about election integrity. At a press conference last night, the FBI director and the director of National Intelligence warned Iran now mimicking Russia, trying to meddle in the 2020 election. The emails traced to Iran, threatened Democrats to vote - not to vote for Biden. But the intelligence chief, a Trump ally, insists, without backing it up, that the goal is to hurt the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN RATCLIFFE, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: We are standing before you now to give you the confidence that we are on top of this and providing you with the most powerful weapon we have to combat these efforts, the truth.

CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: We are not going to tolerate foreign interference in our elections.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: National security is a topic tonight. So too is the coronavirus. The country faces growing trouble again. So, it is safe to say the president is on defense here. The numbers, cases, death, positivity, all signal a third crippling COVID peak is right before us.

31 states, you it on the map. They're recording more COVID-19 cases this week. That's the red and orange, 31 states, more cases this week than last week. Only one, Hawaii, pushing the case curve down in the right direction.

Wednesday, nearly 64,000 new infections. The positivity rate sits above 10 percent in 14 states. And most troubling on Wednesday, you see the chart there, the death toll climbing above 1,000 for the first time since last month.

Just yesterday, the president said not much when asked what he would change if he could go back and redo his pandemic response. That attitude is the biggest of several big reasons he is losing. And advisers hope he is more humble tonight. One of those advisers this morning says the president will answer the questions he wants to. And that adviser promising Hunter Biden will be a big debate topic.

Let's get straight to Nashville. CNN's Jessica Dean live at the debate hall. A very big night in Tennessee tonight, Jessica.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It absolutely is, John. And I think you laid it out so succinctly. This is Donald Trump's last chance to really change the trajectory of this race. We know that his advisers have counselled him that this is really his last chance to change opinion of his behavior from last last time.

With two very important demographics, women and seniors. That's where Joe Biden is making a ton of inroads and that's where President Trump really needs to shore up some support.

He's also been advised to really tone it down tonight. Cool it off a little bit. Not come in as hot which he indicated he's willing to do but he also indicated he is going to push back and push back hard if he feels like he's being treated unfairly.

For his part, former Vice President Joe Biden has been preparing the last several days for this debate, he and his campaign well aware and preparing for personal attacks against him and as you mentioned, his family as well.

They really want to keep this about the policies. They want Joe Biden, as you remember from the last debate when he would look right into the camera, they want him talking directly to the American people, they want to be talking about the coronavirus pandemic and how he plans to get America out of the crisis it's in, surrounding that, and also how he plans to bring back the economy after it's been decimated by the coronavirus pandemic. They want to continue to go back to that again and again as much as possible. They believe when he's talking about that, that's where they really do well.

Again, also, we know that this mute button is going to be in play tonight 2 minutes of uninterrupted talking time at the beginning of each segment where the opposing candidates mike will be muted, after that it is open discussion. So, it remains to be seen how that will all play out. Just a reminder for everyone out there, there are a set number of topics that have been discussed. They will be discussed tonight.

[11:05:03]

I want to run through those with you. They include fighting COVID-19, American families, race in America, climate change, national security and leadership. Each of those spanning 15 minutes for a total of 90 minutes uninterrupted on that debate stage behind me.

But John, as you all know, those can be the topics that we outline and that we're supposed to be talking about tonight but it will be incumbent upon those two men on the stage to drive what they're talking about and what they want to bring up and we will see how that all plays out.

KING: As we've learned in this campaign and others, the candidates can sometimes have their own debate outside of the lines and outside of the suggested topics. Jessica Dean, appreciate the preview there from the debate hall in Nashville.

Joining our conversation now, Jackie Kucinich of "The Daily Beast," Toluse Olorunnipa of "The Washington Post."

Jackie, it is hard - it is hard to understate the importance here for both man but especially the president to his trailing. You see in the list of topics, COVID-19 is first, a man who helped the president prepare for the first debate, is in his face on the day of the second debate.

This is this is Chris Christie, the former governor of New Jersey, who of course got coronavirus at the White House, because he said he took his mask off and he was not careful. This is what he writes in "The Wall Street Journal" today. "Those who deny the scientific realities of the pandemic undermine conditions that allow for rapid and complete reopening. They encourage behavior that invites personal tragedy and social regulation. People need encouragement to do the right thing, not excuses not to."

That could be a message to the president of the United States that is delivered on this day by the man who helped him prepare for the first debate.

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: We've seen the president isn't listening to anyone when it comes -- or anyone he doesn't want to when it comes to masks and to how he's dealing with the coronavirus and COVID-19 crisis. You know when I was reading that op-ed, I had a moment and though, you know what if the president actually had something to put something like this out after his infection with the virus. And instead of doing what he's doing, which is kind of plowing through and pretending it's lifting off the country.

But while -- I hope people read that Chris Christie op-ed, he's right that masks shouldn't be a political tool or political virtue signaling. But I think we're kind of past the point where the president is going to take advice on COVID-19 and mask wearing. And that's one of the reasons they want to talk about anything other than the pandemic. Which is why they're bringing in some of these other topics like Hunter Biden, like how the economy was, to really try to, you know, make people forget about the thing that is affecting most people in this country every single day.

KING: And we get that, Toluse, and Jackie raises a key point. One of the big questions which Trump do we get? Joe Biden is pretty steady in debates and even at times, but it is the same guy every night. President Trump can be different. We learned that it in 2016. We saw his performance in the first debate this cycle. And Jackie mentions Hunter Biden.

We know that Trump's strategy. He did this with Hillary Clinton. Everybody is corrupt, hate us both but then vote for me, right? He needs to bring Joe Biden down. Again, his unfavourability ratings up. Listen to Frank Luntz, the Republican pollster who says, given the challenges right now, the COVID pandemic is accelerating again. The economy is in the tank. Frank Luntz, Republican pollster, says he's not so sure this Hunter Biden strategy is the right one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANK LUNTZ, REPUBLICAN POLLSTER: If you've lost your job or you're afraid of losing it, what do you care about more, economic policy or Hunter Biden's laptop. If you've been sick or you know someone who's got sick from COVID. What concerns you more? If you got kids who are going to school, what matters to you most? I don't understand why the campaign is so focused on Hunter Biden when there are so many better issues that the public cares more about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: There are a lot of Republicans, Toluse, who believe that. But we all know this president trusts his own instincts. Who will we see?

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: The president is trying to recreate the magic of 2016. And we knew in 2016 Hillary Clinton did have sort of an air of scandal around her in part because the FBI was investigating her use of emails and the FBI director announced towards the end of the campaign that they were going to reopen that investigation.

So, the president is trying to recreate that kind of situation where his opponent is under some kind of cloud of scandal, some kind of investigation but it just doesn't seem to be what's happening. In part because the unfavourability rating for Joe Biden is so much different than what we experienced four years ago with Hillary Clinton.

People in general seem to like and trust Joe Biden. They don't think of him as sort of this corrupt Washington politician who's you know been involved in all kinds of various scandals. Instead for the most part he's well trusted. So, the president is likely going to try to attack Joe Biden on those lines, try to bring his family into this, try to make him into this image of a you know long-standing Washington corrupt politician who hasn't gotten anything done but has lined his pockets while he's been in Washington.

It's an image that is very different from what the American people have seen of Joe Biden. But President Trump has been trying to push that message on the campaign trail and this is his biggest audience yet so far and his last big chance to have tens of millions of people watching him.

[11:10:05]

And I would expect him to push this message pretty hard. Even with his mike muted for a good chunk of the debate. I would expect him to use the time that he has, especially that open 10 minute period to really try to challenge Joe Biden and to get him off of his game by attacking his family and trying to paint him as a corrupt Washington politician.

KING: And we know, Jackie, in recent days we've seen the president bristle at coronavirus questions. Ending that interview at Lesley Stahl of "60 Minutes." But we also know that Joe Biden gets his Irish up when people challenge his family and that is part of the Trump's strategy. To try to get him to lose his temper and lose his focus in a debate in which Biden clearly if he has a strong even breaks even with the president he's in the driver's seat for the race. But the president is trying to rattle him here.

KUCINICH: Well, that's kind of the only play they have, right? Because the Biden campaign is really emphasizing that they're just going to take the approach they have to every debate. He's prepared to talk about the issues that he's been pushing the entire campaign, things like following the science, getting the economy back, some of the things that you just mentioned and it's just going to try to brush off the president's attacks. Whether or not he's able to do it.

You know when the president was attacking him during the last debate. There was this moment where Biden -- about his son, Hunter, he looked at the camera and talked about the struggles with addiction. It was one of the better moments for Biden, one of the more relatable moments for Biden in that first debate.

So, in that case, that really backfired on what the president was trying to do. We'll see how they approach that tonight.

KING: And Toluse, one thing the president's advisers are begging him to stick to is an economic contrast. They say if you want to win back some of those suburban women who tend to vote Republican, who don't like your tweets, don't like the way you conduct yourself, if you want to win back Republican leaning independents, who like the way the economy was before the pandemic, focus more and more on the economy.

Joe Biden will raise your taxes. You should prefer my approach. The president, a little bit of a test run in the "60 Minutes" interview that was on Sunday. Listen to this clip they released. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LESLEY STAHL, CBS NEWS HOST, "60 MINUTES": Let me ask you what you think your -- the biggest domestic priority is for you right now.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Ultimately, I'll tell you, it was happening. We created the greatest economy in the history of our country. And the other side --

STAHL: You know that's not true.

TRUMP: It is totally true.

STAHL: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: This is the fight. The president bristles at the idea that he inherited a very strong economy from Barack Obama, which happens to be true. It also happens to be true that at least in the early days the Trump tax cuts did give that economy even more juice. Where do we expect this fight to go tonight?

OLORUNNIPA: Yes, I would expect the president, he has a number of talking points on the economy. They're well-rehearsed. He's talked about the first three years of his administration not necessarily focusing so much on the last year which has been plagued by this economic downturn in the middle of a pandemic. But I would expect him to try to focus on the economy.

His advisers are telling him, focus on the economy, draw a contrast between yourself and Joe Biden on issues like taxes which they polled and shown that the president does poll well when it comes to taxes in comparison to Joe Biden. So, you would expect President Trump to focus on that. But if you look at the "60 Minutes" interview as a case study, yes, he talked about the economy, but he blew up the entire interview by walking out of the interview, tweeting about it. Getting all kinds of different news headlines.

So, even if he give a pitch perfect answer on the economy, no one is going to be talking about it if he is creating other headlines by giving his normal Trump-style antics that overshadow the meat of the message. I wouldn't be surprised if we see that tonight as well.

KING: That's why we watch the entire 90 minutes. Toluse Olorunnipa, Jackie Kucinich, grateful to your reporting and insights especially on a very busy day, thank you both.

Our special coverage of tonight's final presidential debate starts at 7:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN. Please join us.

Up next, COVID-19 numbers are on the rise, case counts back above 60,000 today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:18:15]

KING: The coronavirus numbers, well they are bad today and every indication is they are about to get worse. Let's look right now.

Let's start with our map here. 31 states. 31 of the 50 states you see the numbers there. That's the orange and red on the map. That means trending in the wrong direction. More new infections right now than a week ago. Ohio among the states yesterday that set a case record, Kansas among them as well, Wyoming as well. New state records in those states as we watch this play out. You see 31 states trending up, 18 states steady, that's the beige. Only one Hawaii, fewer infections right now compared to a week ago.

This is what has public health officials worry. This is our trendline. And remember, if we go back to the beginning of the pandemic, it was in here the president of the United States told us that by April this would disappear. It was around here the vice president told us by Memorial Day this would be behind us. And then this is what we're dealing with, everything to the right of those lines.

And the question now is if you started at 18,000, roughly 18,000 cases a day here and you got to a peak of the summer surge above 70,000 cases. The question now is since we started from the baseline of about 40,000 cases back up the hill this time, this is yesterday's number, 62,735. How high do you go when you start from the baseline of 40,000? That is the question.

And as we head into this next challenge. You see hospitalizations, you see the line, this is what you're looking for here. The trendlines in the hospitalization trend line, starting to head back up as well as we go into this third peak.

And this is the saddest of the charts we can show you. For some time, I can't use the word hopeful but for some time the hope was that you could keep this number down, that you could keep this blue line down. You see at the very end here starting to trickle up again. 1,100 deaths in the United States from coronavirus reported yesterday, first time that number has been above 1,000 since you see back on September 23rd.

[11:20:06]

And this sober projection from the Centers for Disease Control, projecting 247,000 Americans will die of coronavirus by November 14th, that's just a few weeks away. You see the number on the right side of your screen, 222. So, 25,000 more Americans will die in the next three weeks or so.

Joining me now to discuss, our CNN medical analyst, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, chief of Infectious Diseases at Massachusetts General Hospital. Dr. Walensky, you can see the peak before us. I'm just going to put the case chart back up on the screen and we can look at it as you speak. When you start from the baseline of 40,000, when you start here and you're already at 62,000 as of yesterday. We know from experience we started about 18,000 here, we got up to 77. What do you see in the several weeks ahead of us right now? DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Good morning, John. You know I think -- I don't want to say that it's going to be impossible to keep these down. I think it's going to be hard to keep these down. But as we send the message that in colder weather the cases are going to rise, I want everybody to understand that they are empowered to change that. We know what we need to do to stop the transmission of this virus. It is distancing and masking.

And so, while those numbers are grim and I am very worried about what happens in the later fall and the winter, and I recognize that at 60,000 that really reflects what was happening about two weeks ago when the weather really wasn't that bad in that much of the country. So, what's going to happen when we really do get into colder weather. But I don't want to send the message that this is impossible to stop. We know what we need to do to stop it, we're just not doing it.

KING: We do know. You say, it's not impossible to stop but it is more complicated when people are getting mixed messages from the top. I want you to listen to Dr. Anthony Fauci here who shares your exasperation who thinks that if people would be just more careful, we could push those numbers down some, but he adds an important but.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: There is a building mistrust now in the transparency of what we do. It's the elephant in the room. The issue that people say you don't want to alarm people is totally nonsense. You have got to make sure that everybody understands where we're going, what is the goal, and how we're going to get there. And then you lead by example. And the consistency is also very important. You can't, you know, flip flop on things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Lead by example, consistency is important. Those should be the guides for any organization. Whether you're in public health or whether you're making widgets. But in the public health specter, lead by example, be consistent, the president of the United States mocks mask use. The president of United States is in these giant rallies. Scott Atlas, the doctor he listens to most right now tweets masks, no. How do you get where you want to go and where Dr. Fauci wants to go if that's what's happening at the top?

WALENSKY: It's an important question. I want to emphasize how hard this is even in the absence of that miscommunication. And that is because we're learning from science every day. And sometimes we're learning things that we didn't expect. We didn't expect, in March, that this was going to transmit so powerfully through asymptomatic transmission. And those messages are hard to send, even in the best of circumstances.

So, I want to emphasize how important it is to lead with the science, to trust the science, to communicate the science, lead by example, and then bring the information to the people at the way and communication that they're ready to receive it. KING: You talk about this being a couple weeks behind. The 60,000 new infections yesterday, means those people who were infected you know we're finding that out because our -- that happened a week or two before. So, your state has done pretty well recently in Massachusetts, then help me. If we're talking about what do we see today that warns us about what's coming two weeks from now, we talked about the high case counts in the Midwest, the hospitalizations crisis we see in places like Wisconsin and North Dakota. In a place that after a very rough beginning has managed it well. What are you seeing Massachusetts and does that alarm you about two weeks or a month from now?

WALENSKY: You know we are seeing increased case counts. I think everybody expected to see increased case counts with a cooler weather, with people being indoors, mitigation fatigue, all of those things. And so, we are seeing them as well, but we started at such a good level we've really had relatively little disease. So, when we see the increased case counts, we communicate, we wear masks. We have been wearing masks well in Massachusetts for a long time. And so, we are watching them, we are following them. But we are doubling down on our efforts for distancing and for mask wearing.

KING: Dr. Walensky, thank you. Grateful for your time as always.

WALENSKY: Thanks so much.

KING: Up next for us, National Security officials go public with new allegations of election interference, they say Russia, Iran involved now and there's an immediate debate about the details and the motive for that announcement.

[11:25:00]

The current FBI director was at that announcement last night. Four years ago, you might remember, the now former FBI director also made a late campaign splash.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 11 days to the election, the FBI director informing lawmakers he is revealing new e-mails related to the Clinton e-mail investigation.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Today in a letter to Congress, Comey said that the FBI has not found anything in those new e-mails discovered that would change their conclusions reached in July.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)