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Debate Night Offers Trump Final Chance To Reset Campaign; Biden Says He Would Have Bipartisan Commission Of Scholars Look Into Possible Supreme Court Reforms If He's Elected; Biden Looks To Protect Lead Entering Debate With Trump; Trump's Interruptions Frustrated Biden In First Debate; Dr. Robert Redfield: Studies Will Determine Whether 14-Day Quarantine Period Can Be Shortened. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired October 22, 2020 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

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JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Hello to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm John King in Washington. Thank you for sharing a very busy consequential news day with us. It is debate night in America. The final time President Trump and Joe Biden will share a stage. Here's a live look at the debate hall in Nashville, Tennessee.

What happens tonight could very well determine the November election outcome? But president is losing as he was when he walked on stage for his final debate four years ago. Tonight, his last big stage to change the 2020 campaign dynamic, 45 plus million Americans have already voted. And today, there are new concerns about election integrity.

The FBI Director, the Director of National Intelligence last night warning Iran is mimicking Russia, trying to meddle in the 2020 election. National security is a debate topic tonight, so, too, is the Coronavirus. The country right now facing growing trouble again and so, it is safe to say the president is on defense when it comes to the virus.

You see the map there, the numbers. Cases, positivity, all signal a third crippling COVID peak is here. 31 states, that's the red and the orange on that map, recording more COVID-19 cases now than a week ago. Wednesday, nearly 64,000 new cases, the positivity rate now above 10 percent in 14 states.

And most troubling, the death toll on Wednesday climbing above 1,000 Americans dying of the Coronavirus above 1,000 for the first time since last month. Just yesterday, the president said not much when asked what he would change if he could go back and redo his pandemic response? That attitude is the biggest of several big reasons the president is losing.

And advisers hope he is more humble tonight. One of those advisers this morning saying the president will answer the questions he wants to answer. That adviser also promising Joe Biden's son Hunter will be a big topic. The final debate ten days to Election Day, let's take a look at where the race stands right now? Joe Biden has an advantage. His job tonight is to protect his lead. We now have him 290 electoral votes, 163 for the president. Dark blue, safe for Biden, light blue, leans Biden. The dynamic of the race right now trending in Biden's direction, one thing the president wants, the president wants a really strong debate.

You see these yellow states. These are all toss up states plus Maine, second congressional district. Maine awards electoral votes by congressional district, Iowa, Ohio, North Carolina, Georgia and Florida. The president won them all four years ago. He is hoping for a really strong debate to get him back in the game.

If he can put those states back in his column, then he would look to Arizona which he won four years ago, and then we would come down to the three most spoken words recently in presidential politics, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. That is the president's hope.

If you are Joe Biden, you go into the debate not only looking strong now, but even look at these toss up states. And let's take a look at the state of the race. If you bring up the state of the race right now, if you're Joe Biden, if you can come out of tonight's debate looking anything like this, you're in great shape. Because not only is he leading nationally, leading in Michigan, leading in Pennsylvania, leading in Wisconsin by pretty healthy margins, leading in Florida. That's competitive.

But you're in play in a state the president won four years ago. You're in play, a little behind, but in play in Texas, state Republicans have won forever. You're leading a little bit or at least in play in North Carolina, same as Ohio, Georgia, Iowa, Arizona.

Right now the map gives Joe Biden many options. He's looking at a very long menu how do I get to 270? If you're the president, your options are much smaller. You need a big debate tonight. The president's job try to trip up Joe Biden. One issue likely to come up, the president's Supreme Court pick is about to be confirmed. Joe Biden is mad about that.

Democrats are mad about that. Many progressives want Joe Biden to commit. If I am elected and we take the Senate back, we'll add new justices to the Supreme Court. The president says Biden should give a crystal-clear answer. Biden says I'll name a commission; we'll study it for a while.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I'll put together a national commission of, bipartisan commission of scholars, constitutional scholars. I will ask them do over 180 days come back to me with recommendations as to how to reform the court system because it is getting out of whack. There are a number of alternatives that are well beyond packing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a live ball.

BIDEN: It is a live ball. It is a live ball. We're going to have to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Joining our conversation right now is the National Co-Chair of the Biden Campaign, the Democratic Congressman from Louisiana, Cedric Richmond. Congressman, it's great to see you. It's a very important day for your candidate and for the country.

Lot of pressure on Joe Biden going into this debate, he is in the driver's seat right now. This is a campaign that many Democrats think has the opportunity to be a wave election. What is worry number one for you as Joe Biden goes to Nashville?

REP. CEDRIC RICHMOND (D-LA): Well, I'm not worried about Nashville tonight. Joe Biden will articulate his vision for the American people. He will let them know that this race is not about Joe Biden, it's about them, it's about their families, and it's about their communities.

[12:05:00]

RICHMOND: And that he will do what a president should do which is unite the country, listen to the science, and make sure that we put everybody's economic recovery and physical recovery at the top of the to do list.

And we will not rob the American people of the power to make their own decisions like Donald Trump did when he did not be forthright with the American people about how dangerous COVID was. He compared it to the flu. And so, we're going to make sure that we empower people to make good decisions.

KING: As you know, Democrats have every reason to be optimistic right now, a double digit national lead for Joe Biden as I just went through in the battleground states, fairly healthy leads in places like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan, which were the big headaches for Democrats four years ago.

In play in states that Democrats can only dream really most years of competing in. One of the questions is will Democrats have a unified approach? Will centrists, progressives, independents and republicans vote for Biden? You just heard his answer to Norah O'Donnell of "60 Minutes" on the Supreme Court issue.

You know many progressives want Joe Biden to say, I will add two or three justices to the Supreme Court, because we are mad, Amy Coney Barrett is going to get that seat. Will his answer take three months; we'll have a study commission? Might that take the air out of progressive turnout?

RICHMOND: No, I don't think it will. And look, that's who Joe Biden is. He is thoughtful and he is thorough. And so, yes, I'm mad about Amy Barrett being confirmed. But I think what you see is someone being not emotional about it, but very thoughtful because as he says, presidents come and go. Supreme Court Justices last a lifetime and the Supreme Court shouldn't

be at the whim of a president. But what the Republicans have done in stealing two Supreme Court seats has tipped the balance of power. And that balance of power could be tipped for a lifetime.

So, I think that he wants to take a real thoughtful look at it and then make a decision based on what's best for the country and that's having a balanced Supreme Court. And I think that people who hear that answer understand it and realize that they're getting a thoughtful president.

KING: We never know which President Trump is going to show up. We saw in the first debate, the constant interruptions and bullying behavior frankly that led the Debate Commission to decide they're going to use a mute button so that each candidate actually gets the two minutes they're allotted.

One thing we're told from Trump advisers is that, he wants to make a full throated attack on Hunter Biden, to try to suggest that Joe Biden is unethical because of the business dealings of his son.

How will the former vice president answer that, and one of the tricks the president is up to Congressman Richmond is he knows that Joe Biden sometimes I call it getting his Irish up, he gets mad, when people go after his family and the president is trying to trigger him. What should the answer be?

RICHMOND: Look, I think the vice president will look straight past Donald Trump and his theatrics. Donald Trump is a known con man in many New York circles. But we know he is very dramatic, and he is all about the aid and he doesn't let the facts getting his way. Every credible news station has debunked the story about Vice President Biden doing anything wrong. I sit on judiciary. I watched the impeachment hearings.

And it was crystal clear, even the president's administration when they came before judiciary, it said Joe Biden is an honorable man, he acted consistent with U.S. policy and he did nothing wrong. We believe in Joe Biden. And that's from his administration.

So, I think Joe Biden is going to look completely beyond that. What he won't do is get in the mud and start talking about the president's kids, which by the way, if I had a big bully like Donald Trump who wants to play the dozens and talk about family, I'd have a field day on Eric Trump, Don Jr. and the rest of his family. I mean, it's nepotism at its highest.

But I don't think you'll see that from Joe Biden. That's not who he is. He is so much better than getting in the mud. I think he's going to keep it focused on the American people.

KING: Help me to understand, Congressman, the mind set among Democrats especially Democrats like yourself who also hold senior positions in the Biden Campaign. If you look at the numbers, you go through the battleground polls, you look at the trend lines, and you look at the - even go away from polling, and look at the Americans that think the country is off on the wrong track, there are all the seeds of a wave election.

And yet there's 2016 Deja vu. When Donald Trump walked on to the stage for the final debate four years ago, he was trailing Hillary Clinton. He still lost the popular vote, but those three words, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin allowed him to be President of the United States. What is your sense, is it nervous, is it anxious? What's the right word right now for Democrats at this moment?

RICHMOND: I think the word is focused. You saw Former President Obama in Pennsylvania yesterday. You see a conservative effort by the campaign to make sure that we have our principals in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, in North Carolina, in Arizona, in Iowa, making sure that we're going to all of those places.

[12:10:00]

RICHMOND: But more important, we're making Trump defend places he didn't have to defend four years ago.

KING: Forgive me for interrupting. But you mention other states? Do you want the vice president to be bold and to go to Texas, to go to Iowa or do you think let's just win and spend your time in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan?

RICHMOND: Well look, I will tell you, I am focused on winning this election, and whatever it takes to win. And so, we're going to see a robust focus on of course the trifecta states, but you'll see focus on Iowa and Arizona and North Carolina, because you have to have a backup plan. We're not going to throw Florida away which we are winning.

And so, the strategy is we don't want to concede anywhere. We don't want to concede Texas. It's just a very expensive place to compete. But we feel good about where we are. And I think the people in Texas will look at things like the debate tonight and get a feel for who they want to trust with their future. So I still feel good about Texas also.

KING: Congressman Richmond grateful for your time on this important day. Thank you, sir.

RICHMOND: Thank you for having me, John.

KING: Thank you sir. For more insights on tonight's expectations, let's bring in Lisa Lerer of "The New York Times." Lisa, I'm trying to get the Congressman, I get it completely. But Democrats see this opportunity, they see a map that look something like 2008 where Barack Obama flipped so many states that George W. Bush had carried, flipped Indiana, flipped North Carolina, flipped Colorado and Nevada which have since become more Democratic leaning states.

So the opportunity is there, but so is the recent history, meaning 2016 when Trump was losing, headed into the last debate. And again, he still lost the popular vote, but he won the election. What is the Democratic mood right now in terms of Joe Biden must do what tonight?

LISA LERER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think that a lot of Democrats see this as Joe Biden's debate really to lose in a way; he is in a commanding position in this race as he has been fairly for several weeks if not months.

And if he can just stay the course, Democrats believe if he can deliver the message he has been delivering, that he is the best physician to pull the country out of the pandemic, out of the economic downturn and that he can impose some kind of civility, maybe bring the country back together in some way.

They believe that he will have a very good night. The question is going to be how he deals with attacks on his family, which many Democrats and Republicans expect to come from the president.

KING: And one thing we won't have to deal with is what we saw in the first debate, which was a president who wanted the floor. Listen.

(PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE)

KING: So, we will have the mute button, so they will actually get the two-minute answers. I asked you the stakes for Biden, in terms of the president, is this it when you look at the polls, OK, we're all skeptical, because we lived through 2016. But deep into the bones of the polls is very different than 2016, plus Biden has a cash advantage heading into the final weeks.

He is not Hillary Clinton, I don't mean that to be critical, just if you look at the polls, his gender gap is bigger than Hillary Clinton; his support among Trump base, white blue collar workers is bigger than Hillary Clinton's. So for the president, is this it? Does he have to change the tide tonight or is there some other Trump magic we're not thinking about?

LERER: I think you raised a really good point, which is that President Trump is losing this race and all leads are not the same. Sure, Hillary Clinton was leading when we went into that third debate in 2016. But Biden's lead is different; he is cutting into key portions of the coalition that elected President Trump four years ago.

I think the stakes for the president are extraordinarily high. He needs to find a way to change the dynamics of this race. And there's a real question about whether it's even too late given the outpouring of Democratic mail ballots that are already locked into the system.

He needs to prompt this red wave that he loves to talk about his rallies, and get enough republicans out to the polls, largely on Election Day, to overcome that democratic advantage. That will require extraordinary discipline from the president.

His aides have urged him to take a much more restrained approach to prevent an affirmative vision for the country. That's just not something we've seen from him. It's not something we've seen in his rallies, it's not something we've seen on his twitter account. And I am hard pressed to imagine that we see it tonight, but who knows. We live in extraordinary times, John, right?

KING: We certainly do, and we have an extraordinary election behind us, and we're in the middle of one right now, the final days. Lisa Lerer grateful for the reporting and the insights. It is a big night, and you should spend it with us.

Our special coverage of tonight's final presidential debate starts at 7:00 pm eastern right here on CNN. Come join us. Up next, the CDC changes its definition of what it calls close contact with someone infected by Coronavirus.

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[12:15:00]

KING: We know the Coronavirus pandemic will be a big debate topic tonight. We also know that it is increasingly more and more and more of a concern almost depending on wherever you live. Let's take a look at the state map right now. You see the red and the orange. Those of you familiar with this know red and orange means wrong direction.

31 states right now trending up, more new Coronavirus infections now than a week ago 31 states trending in the wrong direction. One of them is New Mexico, more than 50 percent new cases now compared to a week ago. 18 states that's the Beige holding steady only one state, Hawaii are trending down at the moment. So this is a bad trajectory for the country.

More than 60,000 new infections reported nationally yesterday. You see 31 states going in the wrong direction. So, too, the death trend 25 states, half of the United States reporting more deaths this week than last week, and you see it's a little bit of everywhere. But a lot of it across the northern part of the country. That was the warning for months. As it gets cooler and colder, cases will rise, and death will follow.

[12:20:00]

KING: You see here in the Midwest, you see the deep red that's 50 percent, 50 percent more deaths this week than a week ago is the deep red. And you see that cluster here; you see more of it out here in the plains as well. The CDC forecast now because of the rising cases is that 247,000 Americans will die of Coronavirus by November 14th.

You see the numbers on the screen, 222,000 now so 25,000 more Americans projected to die in just the next few weeks because of Coronavirus. If you look at the positivity map, this helps you understand. More cases today, more infections in these places, and more likely spread because the rates are so high.

See double digits here, Florida, Alabama, and Mississippi, 12, 14 and 18 respectively. But then look out here. Look out here, Nevada, 21, Idaho, 32, Montana, 13, South Dakota 35 percent, Iowa 51, Kansas, 21. Imagine that 51 percent positivity. 35 percent positivity that means a third of your people who get a test are coming back positive much more likely to spread the disease when the positivity is that high.

South Dakota are 35 percent positivity, well then what happens? When you have such high positivity, guess what? Your case count goes up. That's pretty simple math, how it works. More people positive, more spread, case count goes up.

You might think with a case trend line that way, 35 percent positivity rate that the governor of that state might feel some pressure right now? No. Republican Governor Kristi Noem says she believes that people in her state feel quite good with the direction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. KRISTI NOEM (R-SD): My people are happy. They appreciated the fact that we didn't shut down their businesses, we allowed them to be flexible, take care of health and protect the public, while still taking care of their customers and their employees as well. So we're doing really good in South Dakota.

We're managing COVID-19, but also our economy is thriving. I think people are really recognizing that leadership has consequences and what we're doing in South Dakota is Republican leadership.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Joining me now to discuss is Former CDC official Dr. Cyrus Shahpar. Doctor, it's good to see you again. Reminder we were listening to Governor Noem, whether you agree or disagree with her? Whether people out in the country watching around the world agree or disagree with her? It is a reminder that one of the complexities of the national challenge here is that this is a republic.

You have 50 states; you have 50 Governors who make decisions in their own states. She has decided we're not going to have a mask mandate. We're going to leave businesses open. And yes, we'll take body blows every now and then, but she thinks her approach is the right approach.

DR. CYRUS SHAHPAR, FORMER CDC OFFICIAL: Yes, I heard the same thing from Texas, Florida and Arizona early on, and then when hospitalizations and deaths rose, they had to react. So I think it's a bit of a recurring nightmare that we're seeing in her state.

KING: You say a bit of a recurring nightmare, you so see the trend lines, 60,000 new infections yesterday. Again, we started from a baseline of 40,000 up this third peak. The question is how high do we go? And as we climb again, the CDC is updating its guidance about what it considers close contact. This is what the CDC says now.

Someone who was within six feet of an infected person for a cumulative total of 15 minutes or more, over 24-hour period, starting from two days before illness onset at the time the patient is isolated. It's the word cumulative that is new there. The idea being that if we go back a couple weeks, people thought you had to be let's say around that person for the entire 15 minutes.

They saw Vermont prison study, where the guards were going back and back and back only for short doses. But they think the repetitive; the cumulative is what caused it. How significant is that?

SHAHPAR: I think it's just the reminder that risk is continuing. There's nothing magic or special about 15 minutes and 14 minutes is not safe just because it is less than 15 minutes. So, I think it's important to stress that we need to wear masks and socially distance at all times, even if it is less than 15 minutes.

KING: We are learning all the time. And so, we have people not familiar with terms like quarantine, like isolation, like positivity rate. Dr. Redfield, the Head of the CDC says they're trying to reassess whether or not it should be 14 days, 10 days, and 7 days. Listen to him here talking about the question, if you think you've been exposed, how long should you quarantine?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ROBERT REDFIELD, DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: There's a series of studies gathering data that are trying to determine, can you use testing during the quarantine to determine if you could shorten the quarantine from 14 days to 10 days or 7 days.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: So the idea I assume, help me if I'm wrong is that, do you have testing that you trust enough to after two or three days test a person and then what think OK, they must be OK, they're on a better track, test them again at 7, still negative, you can clear them? Is that the idea?

SHAHPAR: Yes, the idea is to look at minimizing the burden of quarantine, while still getting the public health impact of quarantine. So is there a sweet spot, maybe it's a little shorter than 14 days, maybe it's 10 days, maybe it's 7 days where we can test at the end of quarantine, so that we reduce the overall time, and have more people quarantined because we've seen difficulty adhering to quarantine of 14 days. And this has been done in Europe.

[12:25:00]

KING: Dr. Shahpar, grateful as always for your expertise and your insights, especially at this moment where the case count is getting quite troubling. We'll continue this conversation. Up next for us though, we turn back to the campaign and this remarkable news conference last night.

The Director of National Intelligence, the FBI Director saying, it's not just Russia interfering this year, Iran also meddling.

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