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Trump and Biden Clash in Final Presidential Debate; FDA Approves Remdesivir As First Drug to Treat Coronavirus; Trump, Biden Clash in Final Presidential Debate; U.S. Embassy in Turkey Warns of Potential Terrorist Attacks and Kidnappings Against U.S. Citizens. Aired 9-9:30a ET
Aired October 23, 2020 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:15]
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Well, good morning. I'm Poppy Harlow and we've made it to Friday.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: We have indeed, a little coffee in tow.
HARLOW: Yes.
SCIUTTO: I'm Jim Sciutto.
Listen, the sad news this morning and the numbers support it, the health crisis in this country, it's unfortunately getting worse and of course the election is getting closer. And on the same day that the U.S. reports 71,000 new coronavirus infections, that is, by the way, the fourth most since the pandemic began, the president again tells the American people that we somehow are rounding the corner.
The facts just don't show that. Six states saw the highest number of new cases ever on Thursday. More than 41,000 Americans are now hospitalized and that is the most in two months.
SCIUTTO: And the White House task force is warning that several regions in the United States, in particular the Midwest and the sunbelt and a cluster of northern states, are showing what they are deeming, quote, "early signs of deterioration" heading into the winter.
Today President Trump and former vice president Joe Biden are both on the campaign trail. This is after their debate last night that laid out very different visions for this country moving forward, 11 days from election day and more than 48 million of you have already voted.
Were minds changed last night on that debate stage? So let's begin there with our Jessica Dean, she joins us from Nashville, Tennessee, at the site of last night's debate.
Jess, not only did Kristen Welker just do a phenomenal job, we actually could hear their answers which matters. JESSICA DEAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's amazing what a
difference that makes, isn't it? You can actually hear them talk back and forth.
HARLOW: Yes.
DEAN: And so here we are 11 days out, as you mentioned, from election day. This was Biden and Trump's final pitch to voters from a debate stage and there was a lot fewer interruptions this time, but plenty of jabs. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEAN (voice-over): In the second and final presidential debate, President Donald Trump and former vice president Joe Biden clashed over the major issues. With fewer interruptions, the two candidates offered their final pitches to voters, including how they will combat coronavirus on a day that saw one of the highest numbers of new U.S. cases since the crisis began. Still the president repeated lies about the pandemic.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It will go away and, as I said, we're rounding the turn, we're rounding the corner. It's going away.
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: 220,000 Americans dead. You hear nothing else I say tonight, hear this, anyone who's responsible for not taking control, in fact, not saying I take no responsibility initially, anyone who is responsible for that many deaths should not remain as president of the United States of America.
DEAN: Trump also used his own recent coronavirus diagnosis to downplay the severity of the disease.
TRUMP: I was in for a short period of time and I got better very fast.
BIDEN: He had nothing -- he did virtually nothing and then he gets out of the hospital and he talks about this is -- don't worry, it's all going to be over soon. Come on. There's not another serious scientist in the world who thinks it's going to be over soon.
KRISTEN WELKER, DEBATE MODERATOR: President Trump, your reaction.
TRUMP: I didn't say over soon. I said we're learning to live with it. We have no choice. We can't lock ourselves up in a basement like Joe does.
DEAN: Biden condemning the Trump administration's coronavirus response and looked straight to camera speaking directly to voters impacted by the pandemic.
BIDEN: You folks home will have an empty chair at the kitchen table this morning, that man or wife going to bed tonight and reaching over try to touch their -- out of habit where their wife or husband was, is gone. Learning to live with it. Come on. We're dying with it. DEAN: The president continued to paint himself as a Washington
outsider and Biden as a career politician, while the Democratic nominee aimed to depict Trump as a failed first-term president.
BIDEN: Look, this isn't about -- there is a reason why he's bringing up all this malarkey. There is a reason for it. He doesn't want to talk about the substantive issues. It's not about his family and my family. It's about your family and your family is hurting badly.
WELKER: Ten seconds.
TRUMP: That's a typical political statement. Let's get off this China thing and then he looks, the family, around the table -- just a typical politician when I see that.
WELKER: Let's talk about North Korea --
TRUMP: I'm not a typical politician.
WELKER: OK.
TRUMP: That's why I got elected.
DEAN: Trump criticized Biden's stance on fossil fuels in a move aimed to hurt the former vice president in key swing states like Pennsylvania, Michigan and Ohio.
BIDEN: I would transition from the oil industry, yes. I would transition.
TRUMP: Oh, that's a big statement.
BIDEN: It is a big statement because the oil industry pollutes significantly.
TRUMP: I see.
BIDEN: Here's the deal.
TRUMP: That's a big statement.
BIDEN: Well, if you let me finish the statement because it has to be replaced by renewable energy over time.
[09:05:06]
Over time. And I'd stop giving to the oil industry, I'd top giving them federal subsidies.
DEAN: On immigration Biden called out the president on the 545 migrant children who have been separated from their parents.
BIDEN: What happened? Parents were ripped -- their kids were ripped from their arms and separated, and now they cannot find over 500 sets of those parents and those kids are alone. Nowhere to go. Nowhere to go. It's criminal. TRUMP: They are so well taken care of. They are in facilities that
were so clean. They have gotten such good --
WELKER: But some of them haven't been reunited with their families.
TRUMP: But just ask one question. Who built the cages?
DEAN: And when pressed on his record on race, Trump made this claim.
TRUMP: I am the least racist person, I can't even see the audience, because it's so dark, but I don't care who's in the audience. I'm the least racist person in this room.
BIDEN: Abraham Lincoln here is one of the most racist presidents we've had in modern history. He pours fuel on every single racist fire. Every single one.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DEAN: All right. So the debates are now behind us. President Trump heads to Florida for a couple of rallies today. Vice President Biden is in Delaware where he's going to give remarks later this afternoon on the coronavirus pandemic and how he intends to respond to it.
And, guys, of course, Biden's biggest surrogate, President Obama, also hitting the campaign trail this weekend. He'll be in Florida tomorrow.
SCIUTTO: Jessica Dean, good to have you run through all of it for us.
A lot to get through. We've got a team of folks who know it pretty well to walk us through this.
I want to start with you, if I can, Dr. Amy Compton Phillips, because we know the facts. The country is not rounding the corner. I mean, infections are going up, deaths are going up. So those are the facts. What difference does it make that the president is not speaking honestly about that to the American people, and granting, acknowledging, that this is getting worse not better?
DR. AMY COMPTON-PHILLIPS, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, unfortunately the way the president frames this is all about the book ends, right? That he talks about the beginning of the whole pandemic and about the end game, about the vaccine, and doesn't talk about anything in the middle. In fact, when he talks about the middle he said, you know, the choice is either I go out and continue our life or I have to live in the basement. And that's not the choice.
What Vice President Biden talks about is what do we do in the middle, not just between the book ends, but what do we do in the middle? How do we actually fight during the middle of the pandemic and get the economy back going, and get schools going, and by the way, make sure people have PPE and make sure that we're controlling the spread.
And so I think what the president is doing is actually a disservice because he makes it feel like it's an either/or, and Vice President Biden talks about how do we do both? How do we do and fight the virus and get our lives back?
HARLOW: Toluse, to you, Jeff Zeleny, our colleague, is reporting that a lot of Republicans, advisers, breathed a sigh of relief last night for sure that the president toned it down, but I mean, but his statements were still riddled with falsehoods and lies, but one Republican adviser told our Jeff Zeleny finally, right? Finally the president did this, but they also question, is it too late?
Do you think the president did anything last night on the debate stage that actually increased his, you know -- broadened his tent, increased his base, whatever, got him more voters that he didn't already have?
TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, the president was definitely more on message last night than he was a couple of weeks ago during the first debate which was widely seen as a debacle even among Republicans who didn't like how the president came across with this sort of angry and interrupting tone. This time he was a little bit more subdued, he focused more on his talking points.
He did not interrupt Biden as much, and that may help him with some, you know, moderate Republicans who were on the fence about whether to vote for him again, who didn't like his tone but liked his policies. He was able to tick through a number of his policies and point out some differences he has with Joe Biden on policy areas. So he may have helped himself at the margins but in terms of, you know, this debate being a major game changer in the race, it didn't appear that that is the outcome in part because Joe Biden got in a large number of attacks on President Trump.
President Trump was not able to reset the focus on to Biden's family and these allegations of corruption, which in many cases are unsubstantiated. Instead he found himself defending himself as to why he hasn't released his own taxes, why he had this secret bank account in China, and he had to defend and explain a number of different issues instead of being on the attack and allowing this Hunter Biden issue to become the main issue in the race. That was not the outcome of last night.
And for that reason, the fact that he continues to be behind in the polls, I don't expect that to change very much over the next 10 days.
[09:10:01]
SCIUTTO: Laura, I wonder if you agree because the big issue following the first debate, right, was, it was not so much the issues and the questions and answers, it was the attitude, right, you know, that seemed to alarm Republicans. I wonder if in your view the president gave enough to at least skeptical Republicans last night that maybe I can live with another four years?
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Potentially, Jim, but we are talking about a very small piece of the electorate as Toluse was saying. And there are very few undecided voters left. We're seeing that we're about to hit about 50 million votes cast already and there's 11 days to go and Democrats have a substantial advantage. "Politico" were reporting that this morning. We have an analysis that shows they have a massive advantage in terms of who is casting early vote.
Now, of course, Republicans are expecting that a lot of their voters are going to turn out the day due to the president's attacks on voting by mail, on casting their ballot that way, but I'm skeptical what impact this debate would have, also particularly with voters like college-educated white women and college-educated white men, which we've seen Trump has been losing substantially. I didn't hear any message that could potentially win them over based on my conversations with those voters over the last few weeks.
HARLOW: On the issue, the key issue right now, not only for the election but for the health of every American on coronavirus, Dr. Compton-Phillips, listen to this exchange when the moderator, Kristen Welker, pushed the president on a vaccine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WELKER: You have said a vaccine is coming soon, within weeks now. Your own officials say it could take well into 2021 at the earliest for enough Americans to get vaccinated and even then they say the country will be wearing masks and distancing into 2022. Is your timeline realistic?
TRUMP: No, I think my timeline is going to be more accurate. I don't know that they are counting on the military the way I do, but we have our generals lined up. One in particular that's the head of logistics and this is a very easy distribution for him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: I mean, distribution is not going to be easy for a host of reasons we've gone over on this show, complicating it. The states are not ready, they don't have enough money, but he just said, Dr. Compton-Phillips, don't believe the CDC's timeline. They said second or third quarter next year. He said believe me. Who should the American people believe this morning?
COMPTON-PHILLIPS: The American people should believe the CDC. The CDC understands the complexities that it takes to actually do the logistics of getting the vaccine out, getting it approved, getting it distributed and, by the way, convincing all of those skeptical Americans that we have talked about previously to actually get the vaccine. So we need to believe the CDC and glossing over the complexity doesn't make it any better.
SCIUTTO: Toluse, looking ahead here, we've got 11 days to go, and let's put those figures back up on screen. More than 50 million Americans have already voted 11 days to election day. That's about a third of some of the projections as what the total and likely record breaking vote will be. What are the key moments between now and November 3rd that might still change this race?
OLORUNNIPA: In terms of a large national audience, this last night was the president's biggest chance to change the trajectory of the race. Tens of millions of people watching at once most likely. Now the president is going to be addressing much smaller audiences in a slew of campaign rallies over the next few days. He's going to be going to swing states including Ohio, New Hampshire, Florida, Wisconsin. He's holding multiple rallies a day trying to change the trajectory of the race.
For Joe Biden, it's a slower campaign schedule but he's going to have a large number of surrogates also out on the campaign trail including former president Barack Obama who is going to be trying to target specific voters. So I would expect some of these events over the next couple of weeks to really impact the way people are approaching this race, the people who are still undecided.
As Laura said, not that many people are undecided and haven't voted yet, but for those who are there, there's going to be a highly motivated targeting effort to try to go after those voters to try to get them to turn out. President Trump is going to be traveling across the country trying to do that as well. So I do expect last night to have been the biggest stage for both of these candidates to make their closing pitch but they're going to continue to make that pitch on a smaller stage over the next 10 days.
HARLOW: Laura, immigration was finally a topic in this debate and it's a really important issue and it comes at a critical time when we know that, you know, 545 children right now are without their parents, still from the zero tolerance policy. What is the most important thing you think voters heard on that, learned from both candidates on that last night?
BARRON-LOPEZ: Right. Well, as you said, it was the first time that we really heard them debate that topic, which is surprising given that it was one of the biggest issues in 2016 pushed by Trump when he talked about building a border wall.
[09:15:00]
But last night, when Trump was asked about those 545 children, and what he would do to reunite them if he were re-elected, he didn't give an answer, he diverted and went to attacking Obama-era policies.
Which Biden said was a mistake in terms of the mass deportations during the first part of Obama's administration, it was something that Biden was pushed on a lot during the primary, he had said it was a mistake during the primary, and a lot of those liberal groups that were pushing him on it are now ones that are working for him in states like Arizona to get out Latino voters.
But again, I think one of the biggest takeaways from that exchange last night was the fact that the president didn't provide any forward- looking plan for how to handle these children and reuniting them, and was not apologetic at all about the family separation policy.
SCIUTTO: Yes --
HARLOW: And he is a father. I mean, can I just -- can you imagine if those were your children?
SCIUTTO: Yes.
HARLOW: Thank you guys very much. Dr. Amy Compton-Phillips, Barron- Lopez, Toluse, stay with us. We have a lot ahead this hour. Still to come, the FDA approves the drug remdesivir to treat patients hospitalized with COVID-19. President Trump himself received the drug, but the World Health Organization has cast doubt on just how effective it is on treating COVID. We'll have more details on that ahead.
SCIUTTO: And this, we watched the debate with voters from the key battleground state of North Carolina. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who do you think won the debate? How many of you think Donald Trump won this debate? No hands being raised for that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Notable moment. What moments from the debate mattered to them most? Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:20:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back. It was something that the former Vice President Joe Biden knew was coming, taking on claims from the president and his supporters that he took money from foreign interests and, again, with no evidence, President Trump attacked Joe Biden on just that. So here was the former vice president's response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTEN WELKER, MODERATOR: On the election security.
JOE BIDEN, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE FOR 2020: I have not taken a penny from any foreign source ever in my life. Release your tax return and stop talking about corruption. You know his character, you know my character. You know our reputations for honor and telling the truth. I am anxious to have this --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: All right. With us now is Mike Rogers; former Republican House Intelligence chairman. Good to have you here, Chairman Rogers, and Toluse Olorunnipa is back with us. OK, so, if I could begin with you, Chairman Rogers.
I mean, I think it's important to note here that a month ago, we got the results of a Republican-led Senate investigation into a lot of this that found no evidence that Mr. Biden, former vice president engaged in -- cute dog, by the way, whoever's that is -- wrongdoing over his son's business dealings.
And in fact, it said, quote, "the extent to which Hunter Biden's role on the Burisma board affected U.S. policy toward Ukraine is not clear." As the former Republican House Intel Chairman, how should all Republicans be responding to these repeated, unfounded attacks on the Biden family on this specific issue?
MIKE ROGERS, FORMER HOUSE INTELLIGENCE CHAIRMAN: Yes, I mean, candid, listen, in politics today, it's -- allegations seem to be all the lure. And what worries me is, listen, if you're going to make -- if you're going to challenge someone's character -- and I don't care if it's Donald Trump or Biden or any other political official, I think you're obligated to get it right.
And so, people are just trying to create this air of something that isn't -- wasn't appropriate. And so, the odd thing about this is that having a bank account in China through a business- a legitimate business is not a crime. As the Democrats are saying about Trump.
Having a business meeting about the possibility of doing business in China is not a crime, nor is it in and of itself inappropriate. And so I think it's really important as we go through this, and I know political operatives, you know, their heads would pop off over this, need to get it right. If you're going --
HARLOW: Yes --
ROGERS: To attack someone's character --
SCIUTTO: Yes --
ROGERS: Get it right. And I have seen no information that says that there is anything untoward in those conversations, at least as of today.
HARLOW: I would just note that the president didn't disclose in the financial disclosure forms the --
SCIUTTO: Yes --
HARLOW: Chinese bank account, right, so there maybe not criminal, but I mean, since we don't have his taxes, he points to the disclosure forms and it's not in there. But you are so right, I mean, it was interesting, Jim, in the Lesley Stahl interview that the president posted, he's like why aren't you guys talking more about, you know, the Obamas --
SCIUTTO: Yes --
HARLOW: And investigating more of this. She said because we're "60 Minutes" and we have to verify things, right?
SCIUTTO: Yes. Well, and Joe Biden noted he did release his tax returns which we know --
HARLOW: Yes --
SCIUTTO: If they were filed correctly have shown such income. Chairman Rogers, if I could go to you again before we go to you, Toluse, just on another false claim by the president last night. The president claimed that both Russia and Iran do not want him to be president, that their preference is Joe Biden. I will play those claims because it's important to hear them and then let's talk about what the truth is. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: John Ratcliffe who is fantastic, DNI, he said the one thing that's common to both of them, they both want you to lose because there has been nobody tougher to Russia with -- between the sanctions. Nobody tougher than me on Russia, between the sanctions, between all of what I've done with NATO.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: That's false. The intelligence, in fact, shows, as released and detailed in August by the president's own appointee, leading the group that tracks this sort of thing, Bill Ervolino(ph), that Russia's intention primarily is to denigrate Vice President Biden.
[09:25:00]
There is a deliberate effort by the president and his administration to play down the Russia threat again four years later, Mike Rogers. God knows why? But tell us why it's important that they won't confront this publicly as the facts show.
ROGERS: Yes, and it's really important that the intelligence community both under Obama and Trump also came out and said that the Russians at least had some preference. It is --
SCIUTTO: Yes --
ROGERS: Important to know, however, that believe me, the Russians aren't for -- listen, if they think that Trump gets elected and they continue the chaos, they're not going to get any better at this. They don't like --
SCIUTTO: Yes --
ROGERS: America, they don't like American politics, they're going to keep up their maligned activities. But this is important because you have to ask the question, are you doing everything you possibly can to push back the Russian interference? Remember, the FBI just came out recently, I think it was Director Wray in a speech himself and said, guess what? The Russians actually got into voting networks, took --
SCIUTTO: Yes --
ROGERS: Voter registration information. That's concerning because what they're going to try to do -- remember, this is what they call perception hacking. They want --
SCIUTTO: Yes --
ROGERS: To give Americans the perception that something isn't exactly as it appears in the election, and that sows chaos, that sows -- gets us, you know, at each other's throats. And what they really want to do, those -- the Russians, in this case, now the Iranians, Chinese are also engaged in this now, is get Americans not to like Americans, and one good way --
SCIUTTO: Yes --
ROGERS: To do that is in a very contentious election, make sure that people don't believe in the results. That's what I'm worried about in all of this.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
HARLOW: Toluse, let me just get you to weigh in on the North Korea conversation last night which I think was really important, and I'm really glad the issue came up because you had the moderator press Joe Biden on the fact that, look, North Korea conducted four nuclear tests during your administration and pressed Trump to -- you know, you say everything is rosy with Kim Jong-un essentially, but they did roll out their biggest ever intercontinental ballistic missile during your administration. What was the most important thing voters learned about either candidate on this key issue?
TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, WASHINGTON POST: Yes, I also thought it was important that, that came up. And it was important that Americans know that North Korea continues to pursue its nuclear program despite the love letters that have been traded between President Trump and Kim Jong-un.
And even during the Obama-Biden administration, it was very clear that, that nuclear program was advancing and all of the various strategies that were put in place all the way going back to the Bush administration and the Clinton administration have not stopped North Korea from advancing.
And so, I thought it was important that, that issue was brought forward to the American people. President Trump has tried to say that he is, you know, happy to meet with Kim Jong-un and they have a great relationship and that's kept us from war, but it hasn't kept the North Koreans from pursuing their nuclear ambitions and moving forward and advancing.
So, it's not a win for President Trump to be able to say he's met with Kim Jong-un, a dictator and a brutal thug, multiple times. But it's also not a win for Biden to say that he would do something different because we do know that during his eight years in the White House, there was not the kind of progress that you might want out of a two- term president in curtailing North Korea's nuclear ambitions.
So, I thought it was important that the American people got to see both candidates' vision with the knowledge that the man has had an opportunity to address this, and neither --
SCIUTTO: Yes --
OLORUNNIPA: Has been successful. SCIUTTO: Listen, sad fact is successive administrations of both
parties failed to curtail North Korea's nuclear programs. Those are the sad facts. Toluse Olorunnipa, Mike Rogers, thanks to both of you. And join us for a special live coverage the way only CNN can bring it to you from the first votes to the critical count. Understand what's happening in your state and across the country. Election night in America. Our special coverage starts Tuesday, November 3rd at 4:00 p.m. Eastern.
HARLOW: All right. We do have this breaking news this morning. The U.S. Embassy in Turkey is now warning of possible terrorist attacks and kidnappings against Americans.
SCIUTTO: Yes, listen to this, CNN senior international correspondent Arwa Damon joins us now from Istanbul. Arwa, how alarmed, how concerned are U.S. officials and do we know where or what group these threats are coming from?
ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We don't know that at this stage, Jim. We have asked the U.S. Embassy and consulate press officers here if this was somehow related to the more recent strikes that have been taking place by the U.S. in Idlib province against al Qaeda targets or against al Qaeda affiliates, but they would not comment on that.
The only thing that they will do is refer us back to the statement that they put out that is urging not just U.S. nationals, but all foreigners to exercise caution. What the U.S. has done at this stage is shut down visa services and services for American nationals, temporarily suspending them in its embassy and also in all of its consulates.
What is a bit more interesting about this particular statement, though, that the U.S. Embassy did put out is that, it says that they've received these credible reports of potential terrorist attacks and kidnappings against U.S.
