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Pence Arrives In North Carolina After Five Aides Test Positive; Officials Claim Russia And Iran Have Interfered In U.S. Elections; Eleanor Roosevelt Inspires Leadership As First Lady. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired October 25, 2020 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[18:00:00]

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

And with nine days until the election, nothing can keep Vice President Mike Pence off the campaign trail, not even a coronavirus outbreak in his inner circle. We're looking at live images of the rally in North Carolina at this moment. Let's listen in.

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I mean, I'm telling you what, you could tell last night in Lumberton but you can especially tell tonight, North Carolina is Trump country.

Thank you all for coming out. Thanks so much for coming out and standing in the pouring rain to hear from this vice president about the choice that we face, the progress that we've made and what we all need to do over the next nine days.

It's really great to share the stage today with a couple of people I deeply admire, an accomplished doctor, a man who has traveled all over the world healing the sick, in the state house, he was a leader in North Carolina in the fight against opioid abuse since 2019. He's been one of the greatest allies of the MAGA agenda on Capitol Hill, join me in thanking Congressman Greg Murphy for being an outstanding leader and a great friend.

Also great to be here with a man who grew up on a family farm in Four Oaks and, again, has emerged as one of the strongest conservative voices on Capitol Hill. He's a champion for North Carolina agriculture. Join me in thanking Congressman David Rouzer.

We're all standing out here in the rain for one reason and one reason only, and that is that North Carolina and America need four more years of President Donald Trump in the White House.

Four years ago, almost to the day here Kinston Airport, a movement was born, a movement of everyday Americans from every walk of life. Here in North Carolina, you believed we could be strong again. You believed we could be prosperous again. You said, yes, that President Donald Trump in 2016 and I know North Carolina is going to say yes to four more years of President Donald Trump in 2020. But first things first, and I can tell you're people who know how to get things done and to stick with it. So after you leave here today, I want you to get up tomorrow morning, if you haven't already got it done, and vote, North Carolina, vote to re-elect President Donald Trump to the White House.

Early voting has already started, I checked on the way here. The president just cast his vote yesterday. Karen and I just voted back in the Hoosier State. So, men and women of North Carolina, you've got to get it done. If you need a little help, I can tell you, you can just go ten minutes down the road tomorrow, Teachers Memorial School Gym, 500 Marcella Drive here in Kinston, open 8:00 to 7:30. And, remember, friends don't let friends vote alone. Bring a family member, bring a neighbor, bring a friend and vote for four more years of President Donald Trump in the White House. Get it done.

And I know you know why. And it sure was in high relief --

CABRERA: Okay. So the vice president on the campaign trail even after an outbreak within his inner circle, including his chief of staff, including his body man. Let's get to John Harwood at the White House and CNN's Natasha Chen in Kinston, North Carolina, at that Pence rally.

And, Natasha, we saw a jubilant Mike Pence at this rally, despite this outbreak amongst his staff.

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. And, in fact, I think you have the video of him coming off of Air Force Two just a moment ago. He was wearing his mask, something we don't always see. But you could see him running toward the podium energetically to an excited crowd here, about 250 people.

Now, about an hour before this event began, there was an announcement over the loud speaker telling people that masks are required here. And in just looking around at the folks who are standing in the bleachers, some of them are, in fact, wearing their masks but not everyone.

[18:05:04]

And the chairs that are set just behind us, there were groups of chairs socially distanced at first. But within the last 20 minutes or so, people really moved those chairs closer up to the front to have a better look.

And so a very energetic crowd again, about 250 people in the rain. They don't seem to mind. And, of course, they were waiting for that moment, Vice President Mike Pence stepping off of Air Force Two, again, wearing his mask after, as you said, at least five of his top staffers tested positive for coronavirus. He's clearly not in quarantine. He's here speaking to the crowd trying to get the president re-elected. Ana?

CABRERA: Okay. Natasha, standby, let me turn to John Harwood at the White House. And, I mean, it has been a drip, drip, drip of information and new diagnoses that we are learning about in the last 12, 48 or 24 hours, John. There has just been no transparency on this new outbreak.

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: There has not been, and that's been consistent with the White House pattern, Ana. We remember a few weeks ago when Hope Hicks tested positive, and later that same evening the president acknowledged having tested positive. That did not come out for a voluntary statement by the White House. That came out because of reporting in the early evening that then forced their hand.

The same here, Mark Meadows, the White House of chief of staff, acknowledged to Jake Tapper that he had not wanted to disclose the tests of the multiple people around Vice President Pence. He made the argument that that was about their privacy and it wasn't of public import unless it was the vice president himself or other people at that level.

But, obviously, Marc Short, his chief of staff, one of the senior most White House officials and his body man was also tested positive, which is an indication that the vice president may have had serious, serious exposure to COVID-19 and yet they didn't the public. And now the vice president is out there on the campaign trail, no indication he's going to get off the trail.

CABRERA: But how do you know or do you know how they are handling it internally, John? I mean, are people within the White House kept in the dark or are they being more forthcoming with those people?

HARWOOD: Well, it is the pattern for the White House has been to give out minimal information even internally. So, many people have been finding out about these diagnoses from the news media itself. And it alarms people who have been exposed to the vice president and his aides.

CABRERA: Okay. John, stand by. I want to bring in a few more people to our conversation. CNN Senior Political Analyst and a former adviser to four U.S. presidents, David Gergen, Jackie Kucinich, a CNN Political Analyst and the Washington Bureau Chief for The Daily Beast, Dr. Megan Ranney, a CNN Political Analyst and an Emergency Physician at Brown University, and CNN Medical Analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner, he is also a profess of medicine at George Washington University.

And, David, let me start with you. Why do you think Vice President Pence is on the campaign trail even as this coronavirus outbreak in his inner circle spreads?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: The obsession of winning victory dwarfs everything else with this group. We've known that. You have to feel badly for the victims because this was not fair to them.

But even so, I think what is stunning about this, what the vice president is trying to do is keep the story tamped down. With ten days left, every day is devoted to the pandemic especially putting the Trump team in a bad light is a big loss, a day squandered in trying to do this comeback.

Here, what we have is, over the course of time, maybe five or six people who are close to the -- and in part of the Biden circle have come down with COVID, whereas Vice President Pence, it's three dozen. It's a 6-1 ratio. Can't everybody make a lot of meaning out of that? No wonder it's a big story.

CABRERA: And, Dr. Reiner, we have learned that at least two of these five people that we know of who have been infected with the coronavirus are his chief of staff and his body man, somebody who is with him day and night in helping to deal with everything from handling papers and speech text to helping to facilitate phone calls and meetings, to even dealing with pens for autographs. What's your reaction?

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, next to maybe Mrs. Pence, there are no two people who spend more time with the vice president than his chief of staff and his body men. So they will have spent many hours with the vice president in the last several days.

And what I will say is this, the only reason for the vice president to still be on the road now is, at some point in the last three months, he's had the virus. And now that sounds like an outrageous thing to say, but that's the only explanation for not being in quarantine now.

[18:10:00]

How are we going to tell our patients who have had a first-degree exposure, the waitress in the coffee shop, how are we going to tell them to stay home for 14 days when the vice president of the United States completely thumbs his nose at these common sense requirements?

CABRERA: Dr. Ranney, the White House is claiming Vice President Pence has been an essential employee. That's how they are, I guess, going around their own guidance from the CDC's guidance and the coronavirus task force guidance that the vice president heads up. Does that make any sense to you?

DR. MEGAN RANNEY, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY: My definition of essential workers are people who are frontline health care workers. They are the people who work to keep food on our tables. They are our police officers and our firefighters. To me, being on the campaign does not seem like an essential function for our country.

Now, he needs to be vice president. That is essential. But he doesn't need to be out in public. And as Dr. Reiner said, this goes against every piece of guidance that we give to our patients and to their loved ones when we make a diagnosis of COVID-19. It's stay home. And if you must be out in public, if you are one of those essential workers, you must wear a mask and keep a close eye on yourself for symptoms. I don't see why he thinks he's above the rest of us.

CABRERA: Jackie, the White House calls these campaign rallies essential. Are they? Do you think these Pence rallies are going to make a difference for Team Trump in the election?

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, by and large, the whole mission of Team Trump right now is to make it look like everything is okay, everything is normal. And for that, I guess if you're part of the campaign, that would be essential because everything is decidedly not normal. There are spikes all over the country, including states that the president and the vice president have been in recently.

And so because of that, I mean, listen, Mark Meadows said the quiet part out loud today in his interview with Jake Tapper, saying that they are not going to try to control the spread of the pandemic at this point. They are just going to try to mitigate it in other ways. They haven't taken masks seriously from the beginning and treating it like it's some personal choice rather than something that is essential not only to keep yourself safe but keep more (ph) when the medical professionals here can say more than I can, is to keep other people safe from potentially spreading the virus.

The White House hasn't taken it seriously from the very beginning, and they are not going to start in the next nine days.

CABRERA: Natasha Chen is still there In North Carolina at this rally ongoing. Natasha, what are you sensing there in the crowd? Do you get a sense they are concerned? And has the vice president discussed the coronavirus or his own circle that's been infected at this point?

CHEN: Ana, no, he hasn't addressed COVID-19 among his staffers. As I mentioned earlier, there was an announcement over the loudspeakers about an hour before this event started telling people masks are required.

And if you take a look at the crowd, you know, we're seeing that a lot of people in the bleachers are, in fact, wearing masks, not everyone. And the chairs that are in front of the vice president right now, those were spaced apart. They were set up in little pods, so to speak.

But right before this began, people started moving all of those chairs forward, trying to get a good view of the vice president coming in. You can see they are all standing pretty close together. I don't see a whole lot of social distancing going on. But, again, the people who are facing us at least do -- a lot of them do seem to be wearing their masks. You can tell they are excited and the topic of coronavirus has not really come up here Ana.

CABRERA: And, David, again, the vice president is the head of the White House coronavirus task force. Even Chris Christie has said he was surprised that the vice president isn't quarantining. What message is he sending?

GERGEN: He's sending a message that he's modeling a very dismiss cavalier attitude toward this virus. And, increasingly, the White House -- I find this unbelievable. They seem to be moving to the whole notion of herd immunity, that is protect the elderly but let everybody else be exposed to the virus and that will knock it out over time. But we know from scientists who almost uniformly oppose herd immunity that hundreds of thousands of people could lose their lives.

So what we have here is a pattern, unfortunately, sadly, never before seen in my lifetime, of a president and a vice president who are putting their own people's lives at risk in order to advance their political good fortunes. CABRERA: Jackie, the vice president said this what we're seeing right now is proof that this White House has given up on trying to even protect the American people.

[18:15:04]

KUCINICH: Joe Biden said that, correct.

CABRERA: Yes, Joe Biden.

KUCINICH: There are many vice presidents being discussed at the moment.

CABRERA: Thank you for clarifying for me.

KUCINICH: No problem. No problem.

CABRERA: The former vice president.

KUCINISH: Yes. Well -- and that's been one of the key parts of the Biden campaign in the last couple of months is that they are believing science, wear a mask and pointing out the flaws in this White House's handling of the pandemic. Because this election, whether the White House wants to acknowledge it or not, comes down to the response of the pandemic because it's affecting every part of everyone's lives at this point, no matter what you do.

So that is something that the vice president and Kamala Harris have chosen to hammer on. And that's not going to change in particular because the virus is out of control in so many places around the country.

CABRERA: Jackie, David, Dr. Ranney, Dr. Reiner, Natascha Chen and John Harwood, my thanks to all of you. I appreciate it.

We'll take you back live to North Carolina as we sit on these pictures and take a quick break. The vice president speaking to voters on the heels of more coronavirus infections inside the White House.

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[18:20:00]

CABRERA: Okay. This is video just moments ago as the vice president, Mike Pence, literally ran off of Air Force Two into a rally in Kinston, North Carolina. He is speaking there live now. Let's listen in.

PENCE: I support the right of Americans to peaceful protest. It's enshrined in our Constitution. But rioting and looting is not peaceful protest. Burning businesses is not free speech.

Now, for months, all Joe Biden talked about was peaceful protesters, remember, as Americans literally watched businesses in communities around this country burn to the ground. I was in Minneapolis not long ago with a wonderful African-American business owner named Flora Westboro (ph). Flora told me about the night a few nights after the killing of George Floyd that she watched the violent protesters come closer and closer to that little salon that she had built 35 years ago until the night came that they literally burned her to the ground.

The truth is Joe Biden would double down on the very policies that have led to violence in America's streets. I mean, when you start to withdraw support for those who protect and serve our families, you only embolden those who would do violence to our families and our communities.

Now, Joe Biden explains it all by saying in his words that America is, quote, systemically racist. And he and Kamala Harris say they believe police have a, quote, implicit bias against minorities. When Joe Biden was asked if he supported cutting funding for law enforcement, he replied, yes, absolutely.

But under President Donald Trump, I'll make you a promise. We're not going to defund the police, not now, not ever. I mean, we all know standing here tonight, we don't have to choose between supporting courageous men and women of law enforcement and supporting our African-American neighbors and family and friends and other minorities and families in our cities.

I mean, we have done both for the last four years and we're going to keep supporting law enforcement and keep expanding jobs, educational opportunities and safety for African-Americans and all the families in our cities for four more years. We're going to have law and order in every city in this nation, for every American of every race and creed and color, so help us God. So it's about law and order, and it's about standing strong for the rule of law.

So, as we stand here tonight, I'm proud to report President Trump has already appointed more than 200 conservative judges to our courts at every level, and they are all men and women of integrity who will uphold all the God-given rights to liberties enshrined in our Constitution, like the freedom of speech, the freedom of religion and the second amendment right to keep and bear arms.

Now, last month, we rightfully paused to honor the service of the late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. But when the memorials were over, President Trump fulfilled his constitutional duty when he nominated a brilliant, principled, conservative woman who loves the Constitution to the Supreme Court of the United States, Judge Amy Coney Barrett. Isn't she great?

And President Trump and I --

CABRERA: Again, you've been listening in live to remarks from the vice president in Kinston, North Carolina, at this campaign rally that he has attended, obviously, even after we've now learned at least five members of his circle, including multiple aides, including his chief of staff, including his body man have all become infected with the coronavirus. [18:25:02]

And as you have been listening in, not a word about the coronavirus, I understand he mentioned it earlier in remarks about the economy.

But, David Gergen, who is back with us now, I have to ask, because just yesterday, the U.S. saw more than 80,000 new cases for the second day in a row. Those are now the two top days of coronavirus cases in the U.S., unfortunately, since the pandemic began.

Meantime, South Korea, which reported its first case on coronavirus the same day as the U.S. back in January had just 61 cases yesterday. Why has had White House failed so badly to control the virus in the U.S.?

GERGEN: It's going to be one of the great mysteries that historians will look back and ask themselves and puzzle about it for years and years to come, because there's no rational answer. Time and time again, the president has made decisions that are irrational, unexpected, made everybody feel is he still with it? Is he working for somebody else? Why is he intentionally throwing away this campaign? It's a great mystery.

But in particular, in particular, it's the cavalier attitude toward so many people dying. 225,000 people and Pence is giving a speech about law enforcement in which maybe 10 or 15 people have been arrested or not arrested but killed because of protests? But there's just not mayhem in the streets. There is death in the country.

And why the vice president isn't dealing with it, why hasn't he gone into quarantine already? Don't you think his doctors are advising this if he's been exposed and he's exposed others? These other people surely went into quarantine, but what about him? Isn't he a potential spreader here? There's a lot we don't know, Ana.

And as I say, I think it's going to be years and years before historians unravel the mysteries.

CABRERA: David Gergen, as always, thank you.

A quick break, but, first, here is Christine Romans with your Before the Bell report.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Ana. Just days before the election, investors get a key piece of economic data. On the Thursday, they U.S. government releases the first look at third quarter gross domestic product. It's expected to show annual growth of more than 35 percent, a huge bounce-back from the second quarter.

Now, despite that big number, a record, economists caution the U.S. recovery is stalling though. One Wall Street strategist tells CNN he is expecting the sound of screeching brakes going into the fourth quarter. The latest jobless benefit data was mixed, first time claims fell below 800,000 for the first time since mid-March, but the number of people on pandemic emergency unemployment compensation rose by half a million. That's money for those who have been maxed out on state benefits.

Big tech in focus this week. The CEOs of Facebook, Twitter and Google face a Senate grilling on Wednesday. Mark Zuckerberg, Jack Dorsey and Sundar Pichai will appear remotely to answer questions about a legal protection for online platforms.

It's also a huge week for tech earnings. Facebook, Apple and Alphabet, as well as Microsoft, Twitter and Amazon report their quarterly results. Expectations are high since those are the companies that have led the stock market higher.

In New York, I'm Christine Romans.

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[18:30:00]

CABRERA: Let's take you back now to North Carolina where Vice President Mike Pence is speaking. And this is after a coronavirus outbreak among his staff. He just addressed the coronavirus among the people at his rally. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our president did what no American president had ever done. He suspended all travel from China, the second largest economy in the world. President Trump put the health of America first.

Now, Joe Biden said that that was, quote, "xenophobic." He's actually said it was hysterical. He wrote a few days earlier that to close off travel from anywhere in a global pandemic would, quote, "make things worse."

But I can tell you, as the head of the White House Coronavirus Task Force, President Trump's decision to suspend all travel from China saved untold American lives and bought us invaluable time to stand up the greatest national mobilization since World War II. It's true. We reinvented testing --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Our Natasha Chen is live on scene at this rally in North Carolina.

Natasha, we heard him talk in more general terms about the vaccine obviously that everybody is anxiously awaiting. Did he address the members of his own staff and offer, you know, his concern about their health after they became infected with the coronavirus?

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No, he did not, Ana. Absolutely not. He talked about the fact that we are close to a vaccine in this country. He talked about President Trump's initial travel ban to and from China, and accusing Joe Biden of calling that move xenophobic, and also talking about reopening schools just now, saying that -- reiterating that President Trump is the right leader to bring the economy back.

[18:35:05]

So the discussion of the coronavirus has been about the progress that he feels this administration has made and also how this administration he feels could be the answer to bringing people back from this economic trouble that we're in. There wasn't really a mention of the numbers of Americans who have died of this virus or the people who have tested positive in the White House among his own staff, so there was not as much discussion about that, Ana, more about touting what he feels are President Trump's accomplishments in this department.

CABRERA: And just today we learned more than 225,000 Americans have now died from the coronavirus in the U.S.

Natasha, you mentioned earlier that there was an announcement before the rally that everybody was required to wear masks. Are they enforcing that requirement and is everybody wearing a mask?

CHEN: You know, it's funny. The announcement that was heard by our crew an hour before this started was not repeated. So it was said one time. It was said, you know, before many of these people behind us actually got here. In looking around at this crowd, you know, we could see that some of the people, many of them in the bleachers who are facing us are wearing masks. And I can see, you know, a number of them in the crowd facing Vice President Pence also wearing them. But clearly not everyone is doing so. And there doesn't seem to be anybody here asking them to put on a mask either.

CABRERA: OK. Natasha Chen, thank you.

We'll take a quick break and be right back. Stay with us. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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[18:40:46]

CABRERA: Happening right now the White House is hosting this trick-or- treating event. And it comes after the president traveled to both New Hampshire and Maine earlier today. You can see that everybody here is required to wear a mask. The first lady and the president are not handing out any candy. And we're told social distancing is in full effect. And you can see they are separated from the parade of children in their costumes were walking along the driveway of the White House.

Now to your weekend presidential briefs. And foreign actors are ramping up their efforts to interfere in the U.S. election. Top U.S. intelligence officials announced just last week that Russia and Iran successfully obtained voter registration information and that Iran even posed as the far-right Proud Boys to send intimidating e-mails to voters.

CNN National Security Analyst, Samantha Vinograd is joining us now. She's also the former senior adviser to the National Security adviser in the Obama administration. Sam, what is your assessment of the current election threat landscape?

SAMANTHA VINOGRAD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, let's just look at some big takeaways. And bottom line upfront, bad actors haven't been deterred under President Trump. They've been empowered. Just looking at the public disclosures that we have from the FBI and others, it is clear that Russia and Iran have intensified their influence operations and cyberattacks against us under President Trump.

And Trump's legacy, Ana, is defined by the fact that he has provided ammunition to our adversaries when it comes to these influence operations. Trump's own senior counterintelligence official, William Evanina, warned that foreign actors are amplifying Trump's lies about our elections as part of their influence attacks against all of us.

Now while officials have warned about ongoing influence operations, DNI Ratcliffe did emphasize that our physical votes remain secure. But this brings us to a really disturbing domestic reality, we can't trust the DNI. His track record of selectively declassifying intelligence and cherry picking assessments that he views as helpful to Trump really begs a question of whether we can trust anything that he says.

This adds to confusion about election security. Our adversaries love that. And we are less able to defend ourselves because we may not be accurately informed by the director of National Intelligence.

CABRERA: So with that strategic backdrop, what are the key risks you're focusing on?

VINOGRAD: Well, let's look at some distinct periods of heightened risk. In the run-up to physically casting votes, we know that foreign actors are engaged in active influence operations. The goal is to influence Americans' perceptions and potentially to influence their vote and also more strategically to sow confusion about our democracy. Concurrent to these influence operations we also know that Iran and Russia have targeted voting infrastructure. They could choose to flip the switch metaphorically speaking and compromise or shut down voting infrastructure on or around election day.

Now physical voting sites also present a risk. They are a high-valued target. And foreign and domestic actors may seek to physically attack those sites to harm Americans and to sow confusion. In the aftermath of people casting their ballots, intelligence and law enforcement professionals are warning about two risks. Influence operations by foreign actors to sow confusion and to try to stoke unrest, and actual physical risk presented by violence in the streets, riots, and those kinds of threats.

Law enforcement intelligence professionals are crossing up assets both in terms of personnel and intelligence gathering capabilities to try to keep us safe.

CABRERA: There's a lot of discussion about whether Iran or Russia is the bigger threat. I found it interesting that today, for instance, Russian president Putin was actually defending Hunter Biden's business dealings saying he didn't see anything criminal. I mean, that doesn't square with Putin trying to help Trump. What's your analysis on this?

VINOGRAD: Well, this is just Putin. He's sowing confusion about his own disinformation content. And by the way, if Vladimir Putin wants to get on Biden's good side, he can do things like, I don't know, un- invade Ukraine or take bounties off of American soldiers. His comments are just ridiculous. But when we try to compare Iran and Russia, keep in mind one thing.

[18:45:02]

All threats to elections are dangerous. But if we mix apples and oranges, we get some kind of confusing Kool-Aid rather than an accurate assessment of what to look out for. Russia has been attacking our elections since at least 2014 using a range of active covert measures. Iran is attacking our elections but their operations are smaller scale compared to Russia. Both present threats but Russia clearly presents a multipronged long-standing threat to our democracy.

CABRERA: Sam Vinograd, thanks so much.

Coming up, she was a rebel at a time when women were expected to be seen more than heard. The CNN Original Series looking back at one of history's most outspoken first ladies.

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[18:50:42]

CABRERA: She was a reluctant first lady who found her voice and became an inspiration to millions. Tonight, the CNN Original Series, "FIRST LADIES," takes a look at Eleanor Roosevelt.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELEANOR ROOSEVELT, FORMER FIRST LADY: I was rather a rebellious first lady. I'm afraid I did some things which were not usual for the lady in the White House.

PAUL SPARROW, DIRECTOR, FDR PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY: The role the first lady traditionally had been so constricted. Was about socializing and being a hostess and that was it. And that was not Eleanor's life.

ALLIDA BLACK, FOUNDING EDITOR, ELEANOR ROOSEVELT PAPERS: At that point, she was on the board of 17 major reform organizations in New York state. Had her own career as a journalist and as a social activist.

ROBIN GERBER, AUTHOR, LEADERSHIP THE ELEANOR ROOSEVELT WAY: She is an absolute powerhouse. She's writing for the Women's Democratic News and working for the Democratic Party, so leaving all of that to come to the White House and do what? Hold teas? Pick new China? This is a privilege not to live in the White House and have fancy dinners. The privilege is you have a megaphone to speak to the world. If you can figure out how to use it.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CABRERA: Joining us now, CNN Contributor, Kate Andersen Brower. She is the author of the book, "First Women: The Grace and Power of America's Modern First Ladies."

So, modern being one of the key words in your book there, Kate. How did Eleanor Roosevelt really expand the traditional role of first lady, not only for herself but for all these first ladies who followed her?

KATE ANDERSEN BROWER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, you would need hours and hours to talk about her because she was the longest-serving first lady. She was the first lady for 12 years. And she was ahead of her time in every way. You know, she fought for racial justice. One of my favorite stories about her is when she resigned from the Daughters of the American Revolution because they owned Constitutional Hall and they would not allow the celebrated African-American singer, Mary Ann Anderson, to sing there.

And Eleanor wrote about this in her weekly "My Day" column and said you had an opportunity to do something good and you didn't do it, and therefore, I am announcing my resignation. And this is really incredible at the time. She also had press conferences where she only invited female reporters to these press conferences, which then forced newspapers to hire female reporters.

So she did so many things just decades and decades ahead of her time and she's one of the most celebrated first ladies. President Truman later called her first lady of the world because of her work with the United Nations Human Rights Commission. So, you know, it's hard -- every first lady seems to be judged against Eleanor Roosevelt. I mean, she just did so much so ahead of her time, and I think this episode tonight really reminds us of the ability that first ladies have to change the world.

CABRERA: And it's a reminder of the power that's within all of us as women, too. She was such a female empowerer. FDR, of course, couldn't walk due to his battle with polio earlier in life, and so Eleanor stepped up for her husband and she traveled the country connecting with citizens on his behalf. How unprecedented was that for a first lady to take on a role like that?

ANDERSEN BROWER: I mean, it's incredible that she -- she was raised with so much wealth. You know, she is the niece of President Teddy -- Theodore Roosevelt, and she grew up with servants and nannies, and yet she connected. That word, empathy, that I think we use so much now, she showed FDR the different new deal projects that were working. She took him early in their courtship to a slum in New York City to show him how people were living and the devastation that he hadn't really seen before.

So she was his eyes and ears in the White House. And that was something very unusual at the time. And, you know, some of his advisers told her to stick to her knitting and, fortunately, for us, she didn't. She did so much in the role.

CABRERA: And while I have you, Kate, I have to ask you quickly about Melania Trump. She has been a very private first lady.

[18:55:02]

Nine days out now from the election. Do you have any insight into whether this is a job Melania Trump wants for another four years?

ANDERSEN BROWER: I don't think she's terribly happy in the White House, and she clearly feels like she has been -- she feels aggrieved, you know, but I also think that she has this tremendous opportunity that she should use more. We don't see her on the campaign trail at all. She backed out of an event in Pennsylvania recently. And the president has had to send his other family members out there.

I think that she's -- she's passed up some opportunities in this role. And this "FIRST LADIES" series reminds us of the power that first ladies have.

CABRERA: Absolutely. Kate Andersen Brower, thank you. Be well.

And be sure to tune in. A brand new episode of "FIRST LADIES" airs tonight at 10:00 right here on CNN. We'll be right back.

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