Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
U.S. Sees Record COVID-19 Surge; Trump Downplays Virus in Hard- hit Wisconsin; Governor: COVID-19 Surge is "Crowding" Utah's ICU Space; Europe Hits New Case Record, More Leaders Test Positive; Over 52 Million Cast Early Ballots in U.S.; Nigerian Police Force Mobilize to Quell Worst Unrest in 20 Years; Exclusive with Russian Vaccine's Main Developer. Aired 2-3a ET
Aired October 25, 2020 - 02:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[02:00:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Hello and welcome to our viewers all around the world. I'm Michael Holmes, this is CNN NEWSROOM. Coming up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know why we have cases?
Because we test so much and in many ways, it's good and in many ways it's foolish.
HOLMES (voice-over): U.S. COVID cases surge amid the approaching election that has President Trump trying to shift the conversation away from the pandemic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES (voice-over): Forget about differences between Democrats and Republicans or conservatives and liberals. We'll show you the real divide in American politics.
And Russia boasted it had the world's first coronavirus vaccine. But even its maker admits there are some issues in trials. Our exclusive interview with the developer behind Sputnik V -- coming up.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
HOLMES: And we start with the full coronavirus surge and the presidential election just 9 days away. On Saturday, more than 83,000 Americans tested positive for COVID-19, just a few dozen shy of the record which was set the previous day.
Among them, Marc Short, the chief of staff to the vice president, Mike Pence. Now remember Pence personally heads the Coronavirus Task Force and Short himself has been a key aide when it comes to the U.S. response to the pandemic. He has reportedly advocated for an economy first approach.
CNN has also learned that a senior adviser to Pence who is not a government appointed employee, also tested positive this week.
Now against the backdrop of that surge, that Donald Trump and Joe Biden are off on the home stretch of their campaigns. They're hitting key battleground states like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Florida, as you can see on this map. Many of those states are also seeing a spike in coronavirus cases.
And voters are hearing 2 startling different versions of what it means.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: After the virus hit, we recovered faster than any major nation on Earth. We have recovered faster economically since April. Since April, we created a record 11.4 million jobs. You are so lucky that I am president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D-DE), FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT AND PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If we wear these masks over the next few months, we could save 100,000 lives.
You know what is really sad about all this?
The president knew about it at the end of January, how deadly this virus was, and he hid it from the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: So the virus numbers obviously are very high and Donald Trump, he's pointing his finger at the media. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And you know what?
On November 4th, you're not going to hear the news, at CNN all they talk about COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID. If a plane goes down with 500 people, they don't talk about it. All they talk, because they're trying to scare everybody, you have to lead your life and you have to get out. You have to be vigilant, be careful, socially distance, get too close, put the mask on, put it on. You know, lots of different things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Keep in mind more than 900 people around the U.S. died of coronavirus in just the last day. That's nearly double one of the hypothetical plane crashes that the president was just talking about. Now one of the states that the president visited on Saturday was
Wisconsin, which is seeing a record coronavirus surge. While Wisconsin is traditionally Left leaning, Donald Trump won in 2016 beating Hillary Clinton but only by less than 1 percent. The thing is that's not unusual for Wisconsin. The margin was also less than 1 percent in 2000 and 2004. CNN's Jeremy Diamond was there for the Trump rally.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, President Trump campaigning again in the battleground state of Wisconsin against a grim backdrop of the coronavirus, not only with a surge of cases across the country, a record number of new coronavirus cases, just before the president arrived here on Friday. But also here in Wisconsin.
[02:05:00]
DIAMOND: On Friday, Wisconsin experiencing its highest number of coronavirus cases in a single day during this entire pandemic. Hospitalizations, they are on the rise, not only across the country but here in the state of Wisconsin.
What we see here, is the president gathering thousands of his supporters once again, closely packed together and most people as usual not wearing masks. The president also continues to spout misinformation about the virus, downplaying the seriousness of the pandemic, making a false claim as he often does that, if there wasn't so much testing in the United States, that there wouldn't be as many cases as there are.
What we know is that the surge of the coronavirus cases in the U.S. is very real. That's despite what the president is saying. The president did highlight the importance of this battleground state as he was campaigning here, saying that if (INAUDIBLE) Wisconsin (INAUDIBLE) that he's going to win the election -- Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Waukesha, Wisconsin.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Now Joe Biden also had a full day and, as the election nears, he is getting some help from his former boss, Barack Obama, in the all important state of Florida. Florida has the most electoral votes of any battleground state and the third most in the nation overall.
Florida has voted for the winning nominee in 13 of the 14 last elections. The last Democrat to win the White House without winning Florida, Bill Clinton back in 1992. CNN's Arlette Saenz was at the Obama event for Biden.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Former president Barack Obama traveled here to the critical battleground state of Florida, reminding voters that they helped deliver the White House to him in 2008 and 2012 and asking them to do the same for Joe Biden this time around. He also predicted that if Biden wins Florida, the election will
basically be over, as he urged supporters and volunteers to keep up their final work for the vice president. And while he touted the work and leadership style of his former partner, he also took aim at President Trump, slamming his handling of the coronavirus pandemic and also criticizing President Trump's behavior in office, saying that it is not normal.
And President Obama also talked about that upcoming interview Trump did with "60 Minutes."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When "60 Minutes" and Lesley Stahl are too tough for you, you ain't all that tough. If you got to walk out of a "60 Minutes" interview, then you're never going to stand up to a dictator.
If you're spending all your time complaining about how mean reporters are to you, you're not going to stand up to Putin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAENZ: While President Obama was here in Florida, Joe Biden campaigned in Pennsylvania, holding a drive in rally with musical artist Jon Bon Jovi. That event took place in Lucerne County, a county that President Obama and Joe Biden won in 2008 and 2012 but a county that President Trump flipped in 2016.
Biden trying to make a play for those Obama trumped (ph) counties as the election nears. And both Obama and Biden had a message when it came to early voting. They have reached that point in the campaign where the Biden campaign is really focusing on turnout as the election is now just 9 days away -- Arlette Saenz, CNN, North Miami, Florida.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
HOLMES: The U.S. reporting its second highest day of new coronavirus cases since the pandemic began. On Saturday, more than 83,000 people were diagnosed, that's just shy of the record set on Friday. That's according to data tracked by Johns Hopkins University.
A White House report warning several regions in the U.S. are showing signs of deterioration with the virus surging; 35 states reporting more new cases in the past week than compared to the previous week. No state, let me repeat, no state is reporting a downward trend, not one.
Well, as coronavirus cases surge across the country, medical experts keeping a close eye on rising hospitalizations, a trend that could spell a very dangerous winter. In Utah, daily highs in new cases mean ICU beds are already running low. CNN's Martin Savidge reports on how that is putting all patients' lives at risk, not just those with COVID-19.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Salt Lake City, coronavirus cases are surging and hospitals are in danger of running out of intensive care unit beds.
[02:10:00]
SAVIDGE (voice-over): It's so frustrating for Dr. Emily Spivak, she breaks down.
DR. EMILY SPIVAK, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE, UNIVERSITY OF UTAH: I was trying so hard not to.
SAVIDGE: She's upset because we know how to avoid coronavirus, wear a mask, social distance, wash your hands, yet many people don't.
SPIVAK: There are front line providers in the emergency room, our nurses, our doctors, on all these COVID units in the ICU, working tirelessly. It's kind of like people just are going out and living their lives not realizing that they are exhausting our health care system.
There's so much that can be done by our leaders and they're just not doing it.
SAVIDGE: COVID-19 nearly killed Stephanie Deer's sister, even though her sister never had it.
STEPHANIE DEER, SISTER HAD HEART ATTACK DURING PANDEMIC: Honestly, if you would have seen the look on that doctor's face, he was incredulous.
SAVIDGE: What her sister, 47-year-old Lori Terry (ph), did have was a serious heart attack. At the local hospital, the family says the doctors said Terry needed to get to an intensive care unit to survive.
DEER: And he told us right away, we're doing everything we can to try and find a hospital that can take Lori and we can't find one.
SAVIDGE: For hours nurses called hospital after hospital.
DEER: They didn't have bed space in a critical care unit to treat my sister because of COVID. I believed we would lose her right there, right there, because she couldn't get medical care in the United States.
SAVIDGE: Even in a pandemic, medical experts say other life- threatening health disasters still strike without warning, like car accidents and heart attacks. But now those cases compete with COVID when it comes to care.
Eventually, Lori Terry was able to get the expert medical help she needed, but her sister can't forget how COVID-19 nearly killed her and she blames the carelessness of others.
DEER: And they need to wear a mask. They need to care about their neighbors, their family, their children and they need to do it right now. That's my message.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): Martin Savidge, CNN, Salt Lake City.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Dr. Stephen Sample is an emergency physician at Memorial Hospital and Health Care Center in Jasper, Indiana, and joins us now.
Good to see you, Doctor. I'm just curious, first of all, what goes through your mind when you hear the president say, we're turning the corner, we're rounding the curve, it's going away.
When you see what you see, what do you make of those words?
DR. STEPHEN SAMPLE, MEMORIAL HOSPITAL AND HEALTH CARE CENTER, JASPER, INDIANA: Hi, thanks for having me on tonight.
I think we are turning a corner but it's a corner that looks a lot like this. I don't think we're turning a corner in any way the president is trying to infer that we're turning the corner. We're going in the wrong direction for sure.
HOLMES: Does it make you angry when he says that and you're in the ER, seeing the numbers tick back up?
SAMPLE: Yes, absolutely. In the Midwest, a lot of us are really experiencing our first wave so when he suggests we are turning a corner, it makes me a little bit ragey inside because you know, here in the heartland, a lot of people listen to him and they take his cues and that's not going to be terribly helpful as this winter closes and the flu season rises and all that.
So, yes, I've spent the last 8 months in a near state of rage all the time.
HOLMES: In fact, back in April, I was reading when you said, this feels scarier to me and more uncertain than it did when I was in Iraq and Afghanistan, where you also -- and your services were gratefully received by service men and women.
That was back in April when you said. That now we are nearing the end of October.
Do you still feel that way?
SAMPLE: Well, it's a little different. Back in April, in my county, in my state, we had very little coronavirus. So it was really more the anticipation of what was yet to come. We were watching northern Italy burn, we watched New York burn, we watched Seattle burn.
And we sat here in the middle of the country and just watched. It didn't really feel real. It was really dreadful. We just didn't know when it was going to hit. But now we're laying our hands on coronavirus every single day, every day of the week. Our hospitalizations are up, our emergency department visits are up.
So it has become part of my day-to-day. So it's really hard to maintain that vigilance for long periods of time so I guess I don't have that existential dread all the time. But it's dreadful, sure.
HOLMES: I know you are ER so you are frontline. I don't know if you're dealing with end of life situations. But when we hear these stories, I can't imagine what will be like to hold up a phone to a dying person so their family can, via FaceTime, say goodbye.
Is there any way to convey what that is like?
Because I think a lot of people are getting numb to what is going on.
SAMPLE: Right, yes, you know, for me, myself personally, that is not something, thank God, that I have had to deal with. The kind of the natural history of the coronavirus is after you get infected, it takes -- we're seeing people on average from 7 to 10 days when they start to take their turn for the worst.
[02:15:00]
SAMPLE: But then after they turn and we stabilize them in the emergency department, oftentimes it's another week or 2 weeks, if we get a death, it's going to be way down the road. So really, the people who are really dealing with that are warriors up in the ICU, our critical care docs and nurses.
I am glad I've not had to be in that position; I pray that I don't have to be.
HOLMES: The numbers are just so staggering. Of course, a record broken this weekend. But they can become meaningless in a way when not attached to a face.
Is that how you feel, the people, the families, the people who died are kind of lost in the noise of politics?
SAMPLE: Absolutely. I think, in the world we're living in right now, nobody believes anything that the other side has to say. So we're watching the ticker. I can't see now but I bet you there's a ticker in the corner of my screen somewhere, showing these numbers.
And it is so easy to forget, when we are fighting about this policy or that policy or if I'm screaming for the 7 millionth time that masks work, that there are real human beings attached to those numbers. And I think, as a nation, we are getting numb to it, I do.
HOLMES: Do you fear what is to come where you are and also what you see happening around the country?
Do you worry about what is yet to come and do you feel ready?
SAMPLE: I tell you, I'm as ready as I can be.
Do I fear what is to come? Absolutely. We are seeing these widespread spikes everywhere. I'm in a small hospital about an hour or so from my nearest big, huge academic facility. And I depend on those hospitals not to be full when my very, very sickest need to go there.
But as we all start to fill and the flu comes and people continue to have this pandemic fatigue that you have, I have, everybody has, I am really fearful of those numbers starting to go up and us not having anywhere to put people.
And when that happens, we know that excess mortality happens. More people die, more people get sick and there's just problems all over. So, yes, I'm worried, I'm kind of a pessimist lately but I worry, sure.
HOLMES: Yes, I think you're not alone in. That Dr. Stephen Sample, thanks for what you do, really appreciate it.
SAMPLE: Thank you. Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Well, the coronavirus numbers out of Europe not looking good, either, and some are saying the virus could be there to stay, until next summer at least. We will head over to Berlin with a live report from Scott McLean.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[02:20:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
HOLMES: Welcome back.
Europe is getting ready for its second coronavirus wave to get worse, as if it wasn't already bad enough. Several countries are reporting record numbers of infections. Many fear cases will continue to go up this winter.
On the same day, France broke its daily case record, President Macron said the virus is likely to stick around until at least next summer. He also said there could be new targeted restrictions in the days ahead.
Some European leaders have tested positive for COVID-19; meanwhile, including Poland's president, President Duda, who says he is asymptomatic, continuing to work in isolation. We'll talk more about that in. a Moment
The Czech Republic remains the worst hit country in Europe over these last 2 weeks, recording more than 15,000 new infections for the first time since the beginning of the pandemic. Germany, meanwhile, recording its biggest daily rise in cases from
Friday to Saturday. In fact, the country's number of new infections per day has almost doubled within a week.
And CNN's Scott McLean joins me now live from Berlin to take a closer look at what is going on in Europe.
Scott, as we're often told, deaths are a lagging indicator after cases and that seems to be what's happening where you are.
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, so in Europe we've seen restrictions, curfews and even lockdowns. But for the most part, they are localized, more restricted than they were the first time around.
Like the situation in Spain where, countries largely left it up to regions to make their own decisions, coronavirus rules as you mention, France also looking at more localized restrictions as well.
And in the U.K., where Wales is in a lockdown, but England, Scotland and Northern Ireland are not following suit. And you can understand the hesitancy from these European leaders to bring in another full scale lockdown.
They are very expensive to maintain, they really only delay the onset of the coronavirus and, unless you have overflowing morgues, they're not really popular with the public. But that calculus may soon be changing.
I want to show you a couple of graphics really illustrate the situation here in Europe. First, this is the rolling average of coronavirus cases in Europe. You can see the second wave that we're in now has long eclipsed the first wave. There's also, of course, more widespread testing which may explain part of it.
But pay attention to the dates at the bottom of your screen and when that second wave started to curve up. It will show you the COVID deaths, lag behind by a couple of weeks. Of course you can be diagnosed with the virus and fight it for a few weeks before it manages to kill you. That's why these deaths lag behind.
But they've been quite slow to show in the numbers. Now they're starting to show. Italy and the U.K. both recorded more than 150 deaths in the last 24 hours. But this is really a tale of 2 continents.
Here are the deaths in the big western European companies. U.K., France, Spain, Italy, Germany. Spain has fared the worst, Germany the best. But by and large, that second wave of COVID deaths has been pretty muted compared to the massive, massive numbers that they were recording in the spring.
Look at the situation in eastern Europe, countries like Croatia, Poland, Romania, Hungary and the Czech Republic, all of them, as you can see in this graph, their death numbers are much higher than they ever were in the spring. [02:25:00]
MCLEAN: In fact, Poland is recording 4 times more deaths than they were at the peak of the first wave. Czech Republic is recording almost 9 times, absolutely massive. Their health care system, as you mention, is really in dire straits, Michael, on the brink of collapse perhaps in a couple of weeks from now.
They are expecting to get some backup from medics, doctors and nurses from the U.S. National Guard and you can bet they will certainly need those people.
HOLMES: Wow, that is a very dire outlook. And you mentioned various politicians here. They are catching it. The Polish president, what do you know about him?
MCLEAN: We know that the Polish president tested for the coronavirus on Friday. We got confirmation that he tested positive yesterday. Shortly after he posted a video on his Twitter account, where he appeared to be quite healthy. He said that he did not have any symptoms and he would continue to work through isolation.
He said, quote, "I am full strength, I hope it'll stay this way, however the fact is that I must isolate, together with my wife, we abide by the rules of isolation in an iron manner."
He also apologized to people he had met with, that they have to isolate now, hopes that they don't get the virus. And he really called on Polish people to protect senior citizens who are most vulnerable to the virus -- Michael.
HOLMES: Scott McLean, appreciate it ,there in Berlin for us.
Colombia is the third Latin American country to pass 1 million coronavirus cases. The health ministry said the country hit the somber number on Saturday. Columbia's vice president said she is doing well in quarantine after testing positive for the virus on Friday. We reported that on the program yesterday.
Stefano Pozzebon reports for us from Colombia.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Yes, Colombia has reached the 1 million reported coronavirus cases and the third country in South America to reach such a threshold after Brazil and Argentina.
Other situations of concern across the region, of course, are Mexico and Peru. Most crucially for Colombia, it's perhaps the 30,000 deaths have been reported due to the virus since the beginning of the pandemic began in March.
That is perhaps a sign that, while Europe is now experiencing a second wave of the virus, COVID-19 has never actually gone away from South America. Colombia has successfully lower the numbers between August and September but not enough to say that the spread had stopped. Now the numbers are yet again rising fast and reaching such a topic
threshold that the government is displaying confidence and saying that the situation is under control and that they are relying on international partners to be ready when a vaccine will be available to (INAUDIBLE) among the population.
Of course, high in demand among the president of Colombia and of his ministry is the fact that the economy has already taken a beating by the pandemic and so the government is trying to do whatever they can to avoid a strict lockdown yet again. But the numbers are growing and growing fast -- for CNN, this is Stefano Pozzebon, Bogota.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: We'll take a break on the program. When we come back on CNN NEWSROOM, millions of Americans, eager to cast their vote this year. Early voting smashing turnout records in various parts of the U.S. We'll have a full report when we come back.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[02:30:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
HOLMES: And welcome back to CNN NEWSROOM, everyone. I'm Michael Holmes.
With just 9 days until Election Day, more than 52 million Americans have already cast their ballots in early voting. This includes both in person voting and vote by mail. It's an extraordinary number.
Though it represents more than 36 percent of the total ballots cast in the 2016 presidential election. More than half of these early votes are coming in from some of the most competitive of the battleground states. Turnout records shattered across the U.S.
In New York, some 94,000 people voted Saturday in the first day of early voting there. That's more than in all 9 days of early voting of last election. And in the crucial swing state of Florida, more than 5 million people have already cast their ballot.
Now CNN is reporting from polling places across the country, asking why voters are so motivated this year. Natasha Chen is in Georgia. But we'll start with Evan McMorris-Santoro in New York.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
EVAN MCMORRIS-SANTORO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Saturday was the first day of early voting in New York and across the city, lines stretched for hours at polling places. Including in Jackson Heights, Queens, one of the hardest hit parts of the city for the pandemic.
And voters said they turned out to make their voices heard after months of suffering under the pandemic and economic effects.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lot of people lost jobs, a lot of people unfortunately passed away due to COVID. Every day, if you walk through different areas of this community, there are food pantry lines that are just as long as this line. So people are outraged and we need support for the Latinos. This is why we're here, we're using our voice, we're using our right and we have to vote.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I had some friends that would complain to God knows where and yet they wouldn't vote.
I said what are you complaining about?
You gave up your right to complain when you don't vote.
MCMORRIS-SANTORO: And so you're not giving up your right to complain?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, no, no. This is a God given gift and I'm not going to throw it away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCMORRIS-SANTORO: Early voting continues in New York for more than a week and after that, the end of a long election that many New Yorkers said today they were happy to finally cast their votes in -- Evan McMorris-Santoro, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NATASHA CHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, as of noon on Saturday, more than 2.6 million votes have been cast in the state of Georgia. And when you look at both the in person and early voting as well as the absentee ballots that have been cast, that's a 114 percent increase over the same point in the 2016 election.
[02:35:00]
CHEN: We've been seeing tremendous enthusiasm and energy, even in the rain, as people continue to wait to cast their votes. Now we have talked to a number of people in line, who represent the changing demographics in Georgia, a younger, more diverse group that is joining the voter rolls.
We met this one young couple in Atlanta, who said they are considering some very important issues as they cast their ballots this time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIE SMITH, GEORGIA VOTER: I really do think it's about the character of this country, about who we vote for. So I think -- I just want my voice heard on that. STEPHANIE SMITH, GEORGIA VOTER: I think, also, having a young daughter, we're also setting up the world for her. And I think our vote now speaks even more than it did as single people, that it's not just for right now. It's for the future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHEN: Over the past 20 years, there's been a significant increase in the percentage of African American voters making up the electorate here in Georgia. And according to a recent study by Pew Research, Georgia also has the largest growth of any state in the country of eligible immigrant voters.
In fact we met voter here who was recently naturalized and excited about participating in her first U.S. election. Something that's also changing the electorate, Georgia in 2016 started automatically registering people to vote when they got their driver's license. So a lot of young people are joining the voter rolls -- Natasha Chen, CNN, Marietta, Georgia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Now when it comes to America, an opinion piece in "The New York Times" says there is a real divide between, quote, "political junkies and everyone else." The article says that most Americans view politics as two partisan camps bickering endlessly and fruitlessly over unimportant issues.
Sounds about right.
It goes on to say that, beyond that split, there is perhaps a more significant separation, people who follow politics closely and those who do not, what it calls the attention divide.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
Yanna Krupnikov is an associate professor of political science at Stony Brook University.
And we're delighted to have you on the show. What you write about in "The New York Times" I am guilty of and that is being immersed in the minutiae of politics, the day-to-day machinations.
But in vast swaths of America, that is not the case and that is what you wrote about.
What is the impact, the real world impact, of that sort of disconnect if you?
Like
YANNA KRUPNIKOV, STONY BROOK UNIVERSITY: I think what's happening with this disconnect is that we are essentially getting these 2 groups of people. There's one group of people that is exactly like you described, wake up in the morning, they jump the news they're constantly looking for what's happened, everything that happens they follow.
Something that is a tiny detail, they think about the implications of it, they're extremely anxious when they can't follow the news.
Then we have this other group of people which is the 80 percent, who aren't quite following politics as much. Now this is not to say that they don't know anything that's happening. It's just to say that they are not following politics every day. They're not waking up to it.
They might not necessarily feel as anxious if they can't check the news. So what ends up happening is that two groups that might actually politically be talking past each other, one that is heavily immersed in everything and the other that is potentially getting quite tired of politics.
HOLMES: It's so fascinating. So for those who are immersed, whether they're politicians or journalists or whatever, what are they missing in terms of what that 80 percent actually is interested in?
Is the media focusing on things that just don't resonate with a lot of people out there?
What does resonate with them?
KRUPNIKOV: Well, I think that we are talking about different things when we are talking about politicians and journalists.
With politicians, you always have this question of who you are trying to appeal to.
Are you going to your base or are you going to try to branch out?
Given that the people who are paying the most attention are also the most partisan, the most strongly attached to politicians, reaching those people basically means kind of consistently reaching out to your base, even though these are the people that are probably going to vote for you no matter what.
For journalists, I think it's a somewhat different story. These people, as I just said, are really the most politically engaged. They're also the most partisan. They're also the most conflictual (ph).
So when you cover stories of partisan conflict, it's natural to be drawn to these voices. So oftentimes, what you get is news that's kind of heavily focused on this really partisan conflict.
[02:40:00]
KRUPNIKOV: It is really elevating the voices of this 20 percent, who are heavily political, which means, for people in politics it's not their primary focus during a given day, they don't really see themselves and they don't necessarily see their own voices.
HOLMES: That is fascinating and absolutely understandable. I also found it fascinating in the article you cited, a Pew study finds a 10 percent of Twitter users are responsible for 97 percent of all the tweets about politics. It's an echo chamber.
KRUPNIKOV: Yes and, in our own research, we actually find what we call these homophilous bubbles of interest. So people aren't just in these kind of social networks with people who feel the same way they do about politics. But they are also in these bubbles of people who actually have the same level of interest.
So if you are in this 20 percent minority, you don't realize that you are in any way an outlier. You sign on to your social media, you go to Twitter, everyone there is pretty much just as interested in politics, everyone there is talking about the same things. So you might not realize that you're somewhat different.
HOLMES: It really is interesting. And just quickly, how can politics and coverage often better match the opinions and the interests of those Americans you're talking about?
KRUPNIKOV: I think one kind of aspect of coverage that could change is again the voices that make up our coverage. It's who we put in news stories.
Are people hearing from the most extreme ends of the political spectrum or are they going to hear from people who might be more moderate, who feel less strongly about politics?
And I think about how public opinion is handled by the media could change how people feel about politics.
HOLMES: An important article you cowrote in "The New York Times." Fascinating stuff. Yanna Krupnikov, thank you so. Much
KRUPNIKOV: Thank you so much for having me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Fascinating stuff. Now we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, a few months ago, Russia approved a coronavirus vaccine without having done phase 3 trials. Now the vaccine's major developer admits it's not safe for everyone. Our exclusive interview coming up.
Also, the plight of protesters in Nigeria continues to garner worldwide attention as the entire Nigeria police forces called up to turn down the heat. Is it working? The latest when we come back.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[02:45:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES (voice-over): Hundreds of people accused of looting a storehouse on Saturday in Nigeria. Nigeria's chief of police has deployed the country's entire police force to stop that kind of activity.
The looters say that it was a store of food that should have been distributed to the people. Now the police chief meanwhile says enough is enough. But angry demonstrators have shown no signs of easing up on the protests.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: For weeks now in Nigeria, there have been widespread protests against police brutality and corruption. Nigeria's president says, quote, "Many lives have been lost," but there are curfews across the nation. The president meanwhile calling for calm. Here's Nima Elbagir with the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Broken glass and debris on the streets of Lagos. Shattered remnants of protests in Nigeria over police brutality that quickly turned from peaceful to deadly.
There is a tense calm in the city now. But on Tuesday night, the city erupted into chaos after eyewitnesses say multiple protesters were shot and killed by army soldiers. The army has dismissed reports of the incident as "fake news."
The shooting set off a wave of anger across the country. Many shops and businesses have been burned or damaged and there is widespread looting in the worst unrest in the country since its return to civilian rule in 1999.
It is one of the biggest political challenges so far for the country's president, Muhammadu Buhari. On Thursday he addressed the nation, appealing for calm.
MUHAMMADU BUHARI, PRESIDENT OF NIGERIA: Your voice has been heard loud and clear and we are responding.
ELBAGIR (voice-over): But critics say he waited too long to make a public statement and didn't even address the events on Tuesday, which has further angered many Nigerians.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People died, people and their loved ones, and he didn't mention anything about. It
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The speech was baseless, hopeless.
ELBAGIR (voice-over): The state governor spoke to CNN and said he is committed to a full investigation of what happened and people will be held accountable but also says demonstrators should have left when they were told, as a curfew was in effect.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The protesters had the time to also have left the site we're talking about. But it's totally condemning (ph). ELBAGIR (voice-over): The protests began more than 2 weeks ago and has been largely driven by young people in Nigeria, organizing on social media under the #EndSARS who initially called for a police unit known as a special anti-robbery squad to be disbanded because of allegations of kidnapping, harassment and extortion.
Under intense pressure, the government agreed to dissolve the unit and redeploy officers to a different team. But the movement continued, widening to include economic reforms and more protections against the police.
The voices raised here in a call for justice have found willing echoes around the world, gaining international attention from celebrities like Beyonce and Rihanna, placing a spotlight on shootings that have yet to be fully explained and the growing discontent from the country's youth -- Nima Elbagir, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: And we will be right back.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[02:50:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
HOLMES: Welcome back.
Russia has been bragging about the speed at which it developed a coronavirus vaccine but, in an exclusive interview with CNN, the vaccine's main developer admits that it is actually not recommended for some of those most at risk from COVID-19. Here's CNN's Fred Pleitgen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: As Russia deals with a major spike in new coronavirus infections, despite already having approved two vaccines for emergency use, the head of the Gamaleya Institute in charge of the development of the most prominent vaccine, Sputnik V, told us it may take up to a year for the majority of Russians to get shots, as production sites are still in the process of going online.
ALEXANDER GINTSBURG, GAMALEYE INSTITUTE (through translator): Planned capacity of these full sites by next year should reach about 5 million doses per month, which will allow 70 percent of our population to be vaccinated with this vaccine within nine, to 10, to a maximum of 12 months.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): Russia's certified the Sputnik V vaccine with great fanfare in August after testing it in only a few dozen people. The move hailed as a major PR victory for Vladimir Putin as Russia claims to be outpacing Western pharma firms. But in current large phase 3 trials, Sputnik V is lagging well behind Western vaccine candidates.
[02:55:00]
PLEITGEN: Sputnik V's makers said only about 6,000 participants have so far received the two doses necessary to achieve complete immunization and start collecting data, compared to almost 30,000 in some large Western trials.
All this as Russian state TV is trashing the U.K.'s vaccine candidate, calling it, quote, "a monkey vaccine," despite the fact that Russia itself has made a deal to produce this very vaccine under license. The head of Russia's direct investment fund which is bankrolling Sputnik V claiming Moscow's vaccine is superior because it uses so-called human adenovirus technology.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So we decided to use something already existing, something already safe, something already proven. And many people in the West failed to think about this.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): But even the Sputnik vaccine's instructions say it's only indicated for people 18-60 and not for people with some allergies and illnesses, meaning now older age groups and people with health conditions, some of the most vulnerable to severe cases of COVID-19.
The head of the Gamaleya Institute told CNN the vaccine simply hasn't been tested on older people but he believes the elderly and people with pre-existing conditions can still take it.
GINTSBURG (through translator): With many chronic diseases, in particular people with diabetes, it is not just that it is carried out; it is prescribed to vaccinate people because these are risk groups that need to be protected. But these people, people with cardiac diseases, these are all chronic diseases, as we know, you need to vaccinate.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): Russia says it will still soon wrap ramp up production of Sputnik V to vaccinate more medical workers and other high risk groups, a move Konstantin Chumakov, a top vaccine expert at the Global Virus Network, called dangerously risky.
KONSTANTIN CHUMAKOV, GLOBAL VIRUS NETWORK: I think that there is a reason why they call it Russian roulette. So this is exactly it.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): One Russian who isn't taking the Sputnik V vaccine so far is the president, Vladimir Putin, his spokesman telling CNN, Putin is, quote, "thinking about it" -- Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Moscow.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: CNN NEWSROOM continues with Kim Brunhuber after a quick break.
[03:00:00]
