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Republican Lawmakers Grill CEOs Of Twitter, Facebook And Google; Trump Defends Having $281 Million In Debt Forgiven After Failing To Repay; FBI Agent's Association To Biden & Trump: Keep Wray As Director. Aired 1:30-2p ET
Aired October 28, 2020 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[13:32:08]
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Republican lawmakers are grilling CEOs of Twitter, Facebook and Google over whose content gets regulated and why. As Democrats argue the channels have an obligation to manage misinformation.
Just this week, Twitter flagged a tweet from the president about mail- in voting dates, not the first time the social media company has had to label one of the president's tweets as false or misleading.
Twitter's Jack Dorsey bearing the brunt of these accusations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): Mr. Dorsey, who the hell elected you and put you in charge of what the media are allowed to report and what the American people are allowed to hear? And why do you persist in behaving as a democratic super PAC silences news to the contrary of your political beliefs?
JACK DORSEY, CEO, TWITTER: We're not doing that. This is why I opened the hearing with calls important more transparency. We realize we noticed to earn trust more.
We realize more accountability I guess needed to show intentions and the outcomes.
CRUZ: Thank you, sir.
DORSEY: So I hear the concerns and acknowledge them, but we want to fix it with more transparency.
SEN. BRIAN SCHATZ (D-HI): We have to call this hearing what it is, a sham. This is bullying, and it is for electoral purposes.
Do not let the United States Senate bully you into carrying the water for those who want to advance misinformation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: I want to bring in CNN tech reporter, Brian Fung. He's been monitoring this very important hearing.
Brian, the timing, these are outlets that play a huge role in the education of voters. Tell us what's standing out to you as you watched this.
BRIAN FUNG, CNN TECH REPORTER: As you saw, Brianna, it's a very partisan hearing so far, with Republicans mainly saying Facebook, Twitter and Google should be held liable for content decisions.
And Democrats saying this is essentially a smoke screen to force tech companies to go easy on misinformation, especially misinformation pushed by President Trump.
You had several lawmakers saying the whole reason this is a problem is because the tech companies are very secretive about their algorithms and how they work.
The tech companies are denying they are at all engaged in any partisan bias but that's not stopping some lawmakers for going after them for the same claims.
You had a number of Senators saying the way that Twitter treats content from Iranian officials, it's very different from the way they treat content from President Trump.
Let's have a listen at a little bit of an exchange Twitter had with some lawmakers here.
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SEN. CORY GARDNER (R-CO): It's strange to me you flagged the tweets from the president but haven't hidden the ayatollah's tweets on holocaust denial or calls to wipe Israel off the map.
Does Twitter maintain a formal list of certain accounts you actively monitor for misinformation.
[13:35:04]
DORSEY: No. And we don't have a policy against misinformation. We have a policy against misinformation in three categories, which are manipulated media, public health, specifically COVID, and civic integrity, election interference and voter suppression.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FUNG: Now all of that just highlights how confusing some of these policies are.
And it's not clear how these tech companies often enforce them, often creating very specialized situations in which they explain when a policy applies and when it doesn't.
The tech companies say they want to be more transparent. Whether or not that will happen before the election is anyone's guess -- Brianna?
KEILAR: All right. Brian Fung, thank you for watching that and bringing us the latest.
The president tells suburban women, we're getting your husbands back to work. We're going to roll the tape on why that view is outdated.
Plus, CNN obtains another Bob Woodward tape, and this one involves his interview with Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law, who says -- he talks about who are the most dangerous people around Trump.
And why the president was forgiven for nearly $300 million of debt after he failed to repay it.
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[13:41:05]
KEILAR: President Trump is defending how he got $287 million in debt forgiven after failing to repay his lenders.
In a tweet he says, quote, "Doesn't that make me a smart guy rather than a bad guy?"
This comes after new revelations from the "New York Times" on Trump's tax records. They report the vast majority of the loan was related to a skyscraper in Chicago that was completed back in 2008.
Trump had hoped to turn the property into another one of his real estate marquis dwellings. But he defaulted on his loans, sued his biggest lenders and largely avoided paying taxes on it.
Former IRS chief counsel attorney, Philip Hackney, is here with us.
Thank you so much, Philip, for being with us.
Help us understand how this works. How is it that banks could forgive a loan that size and then lend Trump even more money?
PHILIP HACKNEY, FORMER IRS CHIEF COUNSEL ATTORNEY: Yes, it's a really strange thing.
I think the interesting thing about this, the first iteration of the story is Trump managed to pay no tax for the last 10 years, according to "New York Times" reporting.
A lot of folks figured out how he might do that. It looked like he lost a lot of money. This costa mesa that losing a lot of money.
But how did he get the banks to do something like this? When you do a large deal like this, unlike normal folks out there, your viewers out there, you borrow money, your banks are coming after you. You're probably going to have those dollars forgiven on your tax returns.
Trump managed to mostly avoid it. There are make various provisions of the tax code. Particularly that were made liberal around 2008, 2009 financial crisis, that allowed him some space to exclude that money from income. Effectively what happened, bankers gave him $287 million, he didn't
pay it back. He was $287 million richer but didn't have to pay tax on the vast majority of that.
It's an odd thing. It shows his business acumen isn't that great but he's pretty wily once he gets into a fight with bankers and others.
KEILAR: CNN actually tried to ask Trump about his financial dealings back in 1990. So I want to play part of this interview.
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UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: Let's talk about what we talked about yesterday. Those in the financial community I'm talking about, and we talked about this on the phone, who have said -- this is them saying it, not me --
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is them? What do you mean by them? This is one or two people? What about the positive people?
UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: Five or six. But the ones who said negative things and --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Here we are back to the negative.
UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: Back to the negative.
TRUMP: Back to the negative.
You know what, do this interview with somebody else.
UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: Buy we talked about this yesterday on the phone. This is exactly what we talked about.
TRUMP: Do the interview with somebody else, really. You don't need this. Do it with somebody else. Really.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's nothing we didn't discuss on the phone, Donald.
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KEILAR: Are his maneuvers legal? He certainly doesn't want to talk about them. Are they legal? HACKNEY: When you negotiate with the bank and you argue you didn't owe
the money, there's nothing illegal in terms of trying to get your bank to take a haircut, as it's called in the business.
In other words, they are going to forgive that debt. Nothing illegal about that.
It doesn't appear, on the face of the reporting, that there's anything illegal here.
Some of the things he had to do as a result of being forgiven and not taking that money into income was to include it in a sense in future income tax returns. So in some sense he had to pay the piper in the end.
I think he's more touchy on these things because it shows he lost money. He entered into a crowning achievement of building a 92-floor skyscraper to do the Trump International Hotel and it turned out to be quite a failure.
[13:45:03]
But I don't see anything explicitly illegal as far as we can tell. There were some things in the past that have been discussed about $50 million of that debt or make debt that seems to be associated with those towers he owns.
Folks think he might have been doing something there. I don't see anything in the reporting that tells us that is the case. There's something going on.
From what I can tell from the story, I don't see anything illegal going on. Aggressive, yes, but not illegal.
KEILAR: Maybe not the best business but not illegal.
All right. Philip Hackney, thank you so much.
HACKNEY: Thank you.
KEILAR: Uncertainty over the pandemic and upcoming election are again being felt in the stock market. You can see the Dow is down 800 points. It dropped 700 at the opening bell this morning.
Investors are uncertain with what's going to happen with the so-called second wave of the coronavirus. The very real second wave we're in the middle of. We're going to be keeping an eye on this for you.
We have more breaking news. President Trump's son-in-law and senior adviser, Jared Kushner, is on tape bragging that the president was getting the country back from the doctors amid the early days of the pandemic.
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[13:50:38] KEILAR: Another coronavirus record has just been set. More than half a million Americans testing positive in the last week alone. The U.S. is now averaging nearly 72,000 cases a day on average.
And 40 states are seeing a rise in cases. Just take a look at all that orange and red on this map right here.
Take a look at this. Deaths are up. In 27 states, authorities are reporting 985 new deaths. The nationwide death toll is now topping 226,000 Americans lost to this virus.
The end of 2021 is when we can expect a return to normal, according to Dr. Anthony Fauci, despite an official White House document asserting the pandemic is ending.
But the numbers are telling a different story.
Plus, the president is expected to speak in moments after Joe Biden blasts him for botching the response to COVID.
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[13:56:13]
KEILAR: Just in, the FBI Agent's Association sending letters to Joe Biden and President Trump in support of FBI director, Christopher Wray.
This is a group that represents more than 14,000 active and retired special agents. And it's urging both candidates to let Wray finish his 10-year term.
Keep in mind, this comes after reports that President Trump was thinking about firing Wray if he wins reelection.
I want to talk with this about our chief political analyst, Gloria Borger.
Gloria, you can't miss the timing on this. They're asking clearly for a commitment from both candidates that they will both say, yes, he can finish his 10-year term.
Who does this put in a trickier spot? I think I not the answer you're going to say.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. Look, I think that Chris Wray is very popular on both sides of the Hill. People believe he's a consummate professional.
It was very clear that the president is saying out loud to his staff, I don't like him, I want him gone. And the question is whether he fires him before the election or after the election.
It's unlikely he fires he before the election. After the election, win or lose, he could still fire him. That wouldn't prevent somebody like Joe Biden saying, I would like to re-hire him, which, of course, could always happen if Biden were to win.
KEILAR: Gloria, let's listen into President Trump for just a moment.
TRUMP: -- and Lisa.
Well, thank you very much. I appreciate it.
So maybe you could say a few words and we'll talk.
PAUL ENOS, CEO, NEVADA TRUCKING ASSOCIATION: Thank you, Mr. President.
I'm Paul Enos. I'm the CEO of the Nevada Trucking Association.
We're very blessed to represent an industry that touches every single sector of our economy. That was something that became apparent during this pandemic.
This administration took unprecedented steps to ensure that not only did our truck drivers have proper PPE so they could be safe but so that we could deliver all the things, groceries, toilet paper, meat, to our grocery store shelves, deliver medical testing equipment to our first responders.
Tax reform that this president has implemented has been phenomenal for our industry. It's allowed us to invest in safer, cleaner trucks out there on the road. It's enabled us to increase the wages of our truck drivers.
And for our drivers new rules that have been passed by this administration have enhanced safety.
KEILAR: We're going to come back out of this and bring it back to you when the president starts speaking.
I want to bring Gloria Borger back in.
Let's talk about where the president is. He's in Nevada. He's heading to Arizona.
Why is this on his list of places he needs to hit, and how is it looking this year?
BORGER: Well, it's looking like he's behind. It's looking like he needs them. That's why he is where he is.
You know, we're hearing this from the president himself, astonishingly, Brianna, in place after place as he goes.
Like last night, in Omaha, as he was in Iowa. He says to voters, I wouldn't be here unless I had to. You think I would come back here, is what he said at one rally
I don't know if that's exactly what voters want to hear when they see a president asking for their votes. But he's making it very clear that he's going to places because he feels like he has to. There's almost a part of the president's stump speech, to me, that
sounds like he's absorbing that he's behind and he's trying to catch up.
[14:00:00]
Which is a position, of course, he hates to admit to himself. And losing is something that is -- you know, he doesn't ever want to acknowledge.
