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Trump and Biden Campaign in Great Lakes States; Donald Trump Jr. Minimizes COVID-19 Deaths; Officials Sound COVID-19 Alarm in Utah and El Paso. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired October 30, 2020 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:00:23]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST, NEWSROOM: It is the top of the hour, I am Brianna Keilar. And nearly 9 million Americans have contracted the coronavirus, more than 84 million Americans have already cast their ballot.

And with just four days to go, President Trump and his Democratic rival Joe Biden are both stumping in battleground states right now, Biden arguing he should be the one to lead the U.S. out of this national crisis, Trump arguing that the whole thing has been overblown, despite the fact that yesterday marked the worst day yet for the country with coronavirus, with nearly 90,000 new cases and almost 1,000 deaths in one single day.

And as 43 states are moving further in the wrong direction -- all of that orange and red that you see there on that map -- bad news. Expert are warning that the death rate could triple by the beginning of next year.

CNN's Omar Jimenez is in Waterford Township, Michigan where the president is holding a rally, and we have CNN's Jessica Dean in Milwaukee ahead of Biden's even there this evening.

Omar, to you first, Michigan actually set a record single-day high for new cases. What are the precautions that they're taking at this rally?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, for starters while there are a lot of people with masks, there are a lot more without masks here at this rally that President Trump is hosting. As you can see behind me, there are thousands of people that have packed into this spot here in Waterford Township. Again, just a day after the state set a single-day record for coronavirus cases, around 3,600. And to give you an idea, a week ago, that number was around 1,800.

Now, this rally is part of a final push leading up to Election Day that the president is trying to rally as much support as he can -- for a state that he won by less than a percentage point back in 2016. The real question, though, is how many people are actually left who haven't cast their vote?

The early voting period has been incredibly enthusiastic here. We have already seen more than 50 percent of the entire 2016 voter turnout accounted for in just the early voting period here in Michigan, with 2.6 million ballots returned and again, as part of this final push, to give you an idea, it was 1.2 million early voter ballots that were returned during this period in 2016.

Tomorrow, President Obama and Joe Biden are expected to be in Michigan as well, and this is just the first stop for President Trump today. After this rally is over, he's expected to head to Wisconsin and then he'll finish the day in Minnesota as part of a rally again, just days before the presidential election now -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, it's starting to definitely feel like that final-stretch pace going on. And I know that's the case for you, Jessica, as well. What do we expect Biden's closing message to be as he hits different states today?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, this is where the coronavirus pandemic and politics and the 2020 race are all colliding, and no state could be more illustrative of this than Wisconsin, where they are seeing cases break records, their positivity rates break records. One local health official here calling it a nightmare scenario.

So things are serious when it comes to the coronavirus pandemic here, and that has been the central message that has been key to Biden's closing argument all across the country. So we can expect to hear him really drilling down on that, the Biden campaign making the bet that Americans do want someone different leading them through this pandemic.

Joe Biden, yesterday, accusing President Trump of holding what he called superspreader rallies with no social distancing, no masks in place. As we've been showing you over the last several weeks, Biden's events, very, very different. They've been drive-in rallies, they've been rallies where they've had very small numbers of people with masks required and spaced out at six feet, social distancing rules in place.

So again, just couldn't be a starker contrast between these two men and their plan for the coronavirus pandemic, what they are offering to American voters. And when Biden comes here to Wisconsin tonight, Brianna, you can guarantee he's going to be talking about the coronavirus pandemic, his plan, his vow that if he is elected, on day one, he will work to get it under control.

We heard him talk earlier this week, when he got that briefing from his health team and officials, scientists, doctors. He said, look, it's not going to be like flipping a switch, we know this is going to be hard. But he says he has a plan, he knows what to do. He's asking Americans to vote for him so he can put that plan into action.

KEILAR: It is the busy final stretch. Jessica, thank you; Omar, thank you as well, following the presidential candidates today.

Planet (ph) Trump's dismissal of the coronavirus has taken a sick new turn with the president's son, Donald Jr., saying this on his favorite cable channel last night. [14:05:00]

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DONALD TRUMP, JR., PRESIDENT TRUMP'S SON: I went through the CDC data because I kept hearing about new infections. But I was like, well, why aren't they talking about this? Oh, because the number is almost nothing because we've gotten control of this thing, we understand how it works. They have the therapeutics to be able to deal with this.

If you look at that, look at my Instagram, it's gone to almost nothing. We're outperforming Europe in a positive way, so well, because we've gotten a hold of this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: That is a lie, and it is a slap in the face of the hundreds of thousands of Americans who have died and will die from the coronavirus.

Let's start with the facts before we get to his smirk. He says this on the very day that nearly a thousand Americans died from COVID according to Johns Hopkins. He says this on the very day the number of cases in the U.S. hit its highest mark of the pandemic. And he says this as the nation sees a 44 percent rise in hospitalizations this month. He says this as 17 -- 17 states -- report record high hospitalizations yesterday.

It appears that he's basing his argument on a CDC table that shows provisional numbers, and presenting them as actual numbers. The CDC's disclaimer on its provisional numbers literally says, quote, "The number of deaths reported in this table are the total number of deaths received and coded as of the date of analysis and do not represent all deaths that occurred in that period." It says, quote, "These estimates are based on incoming death certificates."

And if Donald Trump Jr. had ever had the misfortune of procuring one -- a death certificate for a family member who had died -- he would know that, quote, "death certificates take time to be completed."

The CDC also explains when it comes to its provisional data, that, quote, "States report at different rates." "It takes extra time to code COVID-19 deaths." All of which means, quote, "Provisional data are not yet complete."

Now, one can tell that Trump Jr. was stepping in it as he called coronavirus deaths almost nothing from the reaction from Laura Ingraham. She started the segment with a jovial expression. And as her guest minimized deaths on a day that almost a thousand Americans died, she stops nodding, her smile changes and yet she still offers him a lifeline with her fact-check.

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LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: There are COVID deaths, but the question is are they really rising with the rise in case numbers? And I think we know from all the charts -- you can go on all the websites -- you can see, you know, that there may be a slight uptick but not tracking with the rise in case numbers, which frankly is good news.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Deaths are not tracking with the rise in case numbers, she says. Good news, she calls it. Deaths don't track with rising case numbers. They never have. Deaths lag cases by the amount of time it takes for some people to get deathly ill and die. It doesn't happen overnight. It takes two to eight weeks after symptoms start, according to Harvard School of Public Health. She likely knows this.

Shortly after Jr.'s horrific answer, Laura Ingraham tries to wrap the interview up very quick.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP, JR.: A hundred percent --

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INGRAHAM: Donnie (ph), we've got to roll.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: It's not the first time Ingraham has tried to steer a Trump away from disastrously false or tone-deaf comments. Like in August, when she asked the president this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

INGRAHAM: Who do you think is pulling Biden's strings? Is it former Obama officials?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: People that you've never heard of, people that are in the dark shadows, people that are --

INGRAHAM: What does that mean? That sounds like conspiracy theory, dark shadows. What is that?

TRUMP: No --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: It's the journalistic equivalent of those blow-up bumpers that are used for children in bowling allies. Like when she tried to course-correct Trump after he compared a Kenosha police officer who shot Jacob Blake in the back seven times to a golfer missing a short putt.

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TRUMP: I mean, couldn't you have done something different? Couldn't you have wrestled him? You know, I mean -- in the meantime, he might have been going for a weapon and you know, there's a whole big thing there. But they choke, just like in a golf tournament, they miss a three-foot putt --

INGRAHAM: You're not comparing it to golf because of course that's what the media will say.

TRUMP: No, I'm --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Donald Trump Jr. posted his cherrypicked graph of coronavirus deaths that doesn't show the actual state of coronavirus deaths on social media three days ago. So he should have known for days that it was wrong -- if he cared. And he still went on television and he said coronavirus deaths are almost nothing.

Well, the 971 people whose deaths were reported yesterday were everything to the people who loved them. There are 229,026 people who have died in this pandemic, and their deaths should not be denied.

I want to bring in CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger to talk about this. I mean, Gloria, the president's son dismissing that nearly 1,000 Americans dying in a single day is almost nothing? He's either -- I mean, I don't know how you would describe it. Either ignorant, willfully ignorant or just very stupid when it comes to this. I mean, what do you think about what he said?

[14:10:00]

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think it's disgraceful. I think he knows the truth but he prefers to live in an alternate universe because that's the universe his father occupies. And on a personal level, as the son of somebody who was quite ill with COVID, the president of the United States, it's remarkable to me that he is so dismissive of the number of deaths from COVID.

He knows how sick his father was. He knows that his father had to get extraordinary treatment and drugs that are not available to most of us in order to help him, and help him improve quite quickly. And yet he's so dismissive because he has to live in this universe, because the universe in which COVID is issue number one and hangs over the whole campaign is a problem for Trump and a problem for the Trump campaign.

So it's like father, like son. And the son is just mimicking his father, saying that, you know, we've turned the corner, everything's going to be great, we're going to have the therapeutics and the vaccines and we're going to get back to normal so don't pay attention to all of this other chatter because it's not true -- when of course it is.

KEILAR: It also feels a little bit like a buzzer beater on the part of Donald Trump Jr. and his dad --

BORGER: Yes.

KEILAR: -- because, look, I mean, we were just talking about how deaths lag an increase in cases, they lag by two to eight weeks. Because it takes time before people deteriorate, it takes time before they die. So we're seeing this spike in cases; the deaths will follow but they haven't yet.

So what you have is the president and his supporters -- like his son -- who are basically saying, look it's not really a thing, there aren't deaths. And it's incredibly cynical.

BORGER: Right, it is incredibly cynical. And then you look at the increased number of hospitalizations -- for example, all over the country -- I mean, they are campaigning as if COVID doesn't exist any more in the middle of an uptick, a large uptick throughout the country in COVID. There are spikes and they are saying there are not spikes, it's in the rearview mirror.

Well, that's very difficult for people to kind of absorb, so the only way you can do it, I guess, is to either make fun of is -- as the president does, which is when he says, COVID, COVID, COVID, that's all we're doing to hear about -- or challenge the statistics or challenge the science or challenge the scientists.

That's what you have to do to get people to come live in your universe and believe you, because it is around the corner. And the election is on Tuesday, but people are already getting nervous about this so you have to find a way to say to them, don't worry about it, be happy, it's fine.

KEILAR: I mean, people will believe sometimes what they want to believe. I think they know that, it's part of the reason why they're selling this.

I do want to ask you about something we've just learned, "The New York Times" reporting that the president has changed his plans for Election Night and is going to remain at the White House. What does that signal to you?

BORGER: Well, first of all, he was going to have a celebration at the Trump Hotel. And the Trump Hotel is smack-dab in the District of Columbia, and the District of Columbia has some rules which say that you can't have occupancies of more than 50 people.

The president has said, oh, D.C. is shutting down? That's not true. It is true that there are limits on the number of people you can have at gatherings. And if the Trump campaign were not to abide by that, they could lose their liquor license. I mean, you know, it's a serious thing for a hotel. And so I wouldn't be surprised if Mayor Bowser's been having some conversations with them.

I also think that they may be deciding what kind of an event they want to have or whether they want to have one at all. I mean, I remember -- and you were there, Brianna, when Hillary Clinton had this huge event last time, right? How was that when you were in the room for that --

KEILAR: Wow --

BORGER: -- right?

KEILAR: Yes, that's right. BORGER: So maybe -- it wasn't so great. So I don't know whether

they've just decided being at the White House is the best place, but I do know there's clearly an issue with having it at the Trump Hotel.

KEILAR: All right, Gloria Borger, thank you so much --

BORGER: Thanks, Bri.

KEILAR: -- it is wonderful to see you, as always.

BORGER: Good to see you.

KEILAR: And next, El Paso County, Texas is trying to shut down for two weeks to get a handle on a huge spike in cases that they're seeing there, but the state's attorney general is pushing back.

Also, I'm going to speak to a photographer who documented these heartbreaking moments as families hit hard by the pandemic are now being evicted from their homes.

[14:14:35]

And Georgia Senator David Perdue backs out of his final debate before the election. He's not alone, though: a look at why so many Republicans are skipping the stage.

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KEILAR: The U.S. is on the brink of 9 million coronavirus cases and we could hit that milestone by this afternoon. In Utah, the Republican governor is sounding the alarm as new coronavirus cases and hospitalizations threaten to overwhelm the medical system in his state. CNN's Dan Simon has details.

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, with cases continuing to surge in Utah, the governor is warning that there could soon be a crisis of care on hospitals. Right now, the positivity rate for seven days stands at about 18 percent, and the Utah Hospital Association is saying that they're nearing a situation where they might need to start rationing care.

That's when hospitals would decide who gets an ICU bed and who doesn't. It also means that if things are strained, that people who need to access the health care system -- people who might have had a heart attack or a stroke -- may not get optimal care.

Now, when asked why the state is not enforcing mask mandates, Utah Governor Gary Herbert says it's up to local authorities to do so. He is also warning that people who get the virus may continue to have lingering symptoms, citing his own granddaughter who he said lost her sense of smell -- Brianna.

[14:20:13]

KEILAR: All right, Dan, thank you. And in El Paso, Texas, a massive spike in cases has prompted the

county judge to order a two-week shutdown of all nonessential businesses. CNN's Ed Lavandera has more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: As the COVID pandemic is overwhelming hospitals and medical teams all across this county, more than 1,300 new cases announced today, the positive infection rate is at 20 percent. Because of all of that, the county judge here has ordered a two-week shutdown of all nonessential business. And this is sparking a political showdown with state officials in Austin.

The attorney general here in Texas says that the judge does not have the authority to issue this shutdown of the local economy here in El Paso, but this comes as officials here in El Paso County say that if they do not do something to get this pandemic under control, they will see a, quote, "unprecedented" level of death.

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KEILAR: All right, Ed, thank you.

And with me now to discuss these headlines is Dr. Saju Mathew. He is a primary care physician and a public health specialist.

And you know, Doctor, yesterday, the U.S. set a new record of cases. The former FDA commissioner is predicting that the U.S. might cross the 100,000 mark for daily cases soon. But we know that really, when you're seeing the devastation of these cases, it's happening after diagnosis or after symptoms -- two weeks or more. So what are you expecting here in the coming weeks?

SAJU MATHEW, PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIAN: Yes, that's correct, Brianna. There's always a little bit of that lag period. It takes about five to 14 days -- usually five days -- from when you're exposed to develop symptoms, and then about two to four weeks for patients to actually go into the hospital and eventually to the ICU. And as a result of that, the deaths will lag behind these number of cases.

Listen, Brianna, this is really a nightmare -- and I'm not trying to be an alarmist. I think that when we look back at the spring and the summer surges, these were kind of hotspots, if you will, forest fires here and there.

But now, if you look at the map, we're talking about cases uniformly going up all over the U.S. and yes, we could hit 100,000 in a matter of weeks. And one of my biggest concerns, Brianna, as a doctor, is the rationing of care and a lot of patients that will not get your knee replacements or colonoscopies or mammograms. And this is a dire situation, we have to be prepared for this.

KEILAR: OK, so explain that more, the rationing of care. It's taking out some preventative -- obviously important -- measures like mammograms. What is it -- what happens when you have a lot of COVID patients and ICUs are full and doctors have to determine who can best benefit from certain resources? Do you get to that point with rationing care?

MATHEW: Absolutely, that's exactly the definition, unfortunately, of rationing of care in an ICU or an emergency room. A 30-year-old walks in, 80-year-old walks in. And this is really tough to say this, but the E.R. doctor and the ICU doctor will need to decide how many ICU beds do we have, how sick are these patients and who has -- really -- the potential of making it through a crisis, a severe COVID illness.

Somebody who is intubated, a lot of times with COVID patients, do not get extubated. So really, what are the chances of a 70- or an 80-year- old versus a 30-year-old of surviving? Sometimes patients have to be airlifted to other places.

I still remember, Brianna, those -- I think a lot of these pictures that keep me up at night for what happened in Italy, where people were literally dying in the hallways. They couldn't even make it to an ICU bed.

KEILAR: And you know, we've heard, Dr. Saju, the president touting essentially the recovery, right? He's touted Regeneron, that antibody cocktail that he received during his COVID treatment; he's vowed that he would make this freely available to Americans soon. But today, Regeneron announced their trials will be modified based on safety and a, quote, "unfavorable risk-benefit profile." Explain what that means and tell us what this indicates.

MATHEW: Yes, so basically there are quite a few ways that you can develop an antibody, if you will, to COVID-19: through a natural infection -- when you recover, we know you do have immunity, maybe for a few months. And then through a vaccine, which is what's really recommended to achieve that herd immunity.

But you can also just give antibodies from somebody who has recovered, and directly infuse that into a patient who is severely sick with COVID. Regeneron has two of those antibodies -- they're called monoclonal antibodies -- one is an antibody that's taken from a patient with COVID-19 who actually recovered, and the other one is manufactured in the lab.

[14:25:06]

Now, if you look at the spectrum of how somebody gets sick with COVID, after five days, you get mild symptoms; at that point, your immune system tries to kick in and develop antibodies. The theory is, if you give patients that Regeneron antibody when they have mild symptoms, it really helps your immune system to sort of kick in and fight the infection.

However, when patients develop severe symptoms, when they're intubated or in the ICU, there is this cytokine response, Brianna, where your immune system goes into sort of overdrive. And at that point, the antibodies really don't seem to help. A lot of patients actually die from the cytokine response.

So really, the studies with Regeneron and antibodies of that nature have shown to really benefit when you have mild symptoms and not severe symptoms or patients on oxygen therapy or who are being intubated.

KEILAR: Thank you so much. I mean, look, it's so helpful. I think we've all learned things that we never thought we would know several months ago, but it's so helpful to hear you speak in detail about this. Dr. Mathew, it's good to see you.

MATHEW: Thank you, Brianna.

KEILAR: Next, an interesting trend is emerging of Republicans just bailing on their debates. S.E. Cupp will join me live to talk about it.

Plus, details on why Walmart is pulling ammunition from its store shelves.

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