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Trump Suggests Firing Fauci; FBI Investigating Harassment of Biden Bus; Polls Ahead of Election Day; New Lockdown Measures in U.K. Aired 9:30-10a

Aired November 02, 2020 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:31:06]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back.

Well, of course, the other story we're following closely today, nearly 50,000 Americans are now hospitalized with the coronavirus. Hospitalized. And on Friday, the U.S. set a new global record for the most new infections reported in a single day. A record.

So what kind of message does it send when the president said the following at last night's rally?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: Fire Fauci! Fire Fauci! Fire Fauci! Fire Fauci! Fire Fauci! Fire Fauci! Fire Fauci! Fire Fauci!

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Don't tell anybody, but let me wait till a little bit after the election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: If you missed that, the crowd was chanting "fire Fauci" and the president said he's considering it after the election.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: This comes a day after Dr. Fauci told "The Washington Post," quote, "we are in for a lot of hurt. It's not a good situation." He went on to say, "you could not possibly be positioned more poorly."

Jonathan Reiner is with us, our medical analyst, and also professor of medicine at George Washington University.

Good morning, Doctor.

And putting aside the fact, I don't think the president can fire Anthony Fauci, at least not directly, what is your reaction to what we just heard?

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: You know, I'm not surprised. We've seen from -- from this president almost an irrational lashing out at anybody that says anything counter to his narrative. But the truth is, things are bad in this country now. In the last week, cases are up about 20 percent, hospitalizations are up about 15 percent. And there's no sign that we're anywhere close to peaking.

The president actually can't directly fire Tony Fauci. He might be able to dismiss him from the task force, which is mostly dormant anyway. But he would have to be fired by the director of the NIH, Francis Collins, who I think has no -- there's no likelihood that would happen.

So this is just bluster. And I'm -- you know, I'm not a political analyst, but as a doc, I don't see how this benefits the president sort of putting his thumb on the nation's most respected physician.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

Dr. Reiner, let's set aside the politics for a moment here because the president makes a lot of outrageous and false claims, frankly. Let's talk about the science given Dr. Fauci, and he's not alone, predicting a very difficult period ahead. And some of it's already in the numbers we're seeing. It's setting records day by day almost.

How should folks at home watching now prepare for that? What is -- what steps should they be taking to keep themselves and their families safe in the coming weeks and months?

REINER: Look, we can turn this around. And there's an easy way to turn this around and then there's a really hard way to turn this around.

The easy way to turn this around is for everyone to wear a mask. The hard way to turn this around is to start shutting down our economy again. But we can't both not wear masks and not shut things down.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

REINER: That will result in a massive number of deaths. Than will result in the return of refrigerator trucks to store the bodies in our cities. So we can either do it the easy way or we can do it the hard way. I strongly suggest we do this the easy way and get everyone to wear a mask and social distance and be smart.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: On the mask point, so many people had questions about whether it was going to work to put kids back in schools. And I just want your reaction to Dr. Scott Gottlieb, who is the former FDA commissioner. What he said yesterday to CBS about that -- that and tying it to masks.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB, FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER: There's a lot of evidence now that the schools can be safely opened if they take prudent steps.

That should be a very high priority for this nation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: How significant is it that we have not seen mass outbreaks in the last few months large in schools where masks are required by everyone, Doctor?

SCIUTTO: Yes.

[09:35:07]

REINER: Well, I think there's a lot of disagreement about how efficiently young children transmit the virus. You know, there were reports, you know, a couple of months ago that children under the age of 12 may be transmitting the virus less efficiently than older kids, who we do know with clarity transmit the virus every bit as efficiently as adults. There was just a report in the CDC and in WR (ph) that suggests that young children can efficiently transmit the virus.

Look, I think schools are doing a good job at trying to mitigate the transmission of virus. We should be trying to open schools, but every city, every community is going to have a different way of doing that. In places with rampant virus, it might be very difficult. Places with less dense viral loads, it might be more possible with a stringent mitigation effort. So this is going to be a community by community effort.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

You know, and it should be noted that Dr. Fauci, for all his conservatism, right, in terms of how to respond to this, has said for months now that in places where the outbreak is under control, schools can open safely. No one size fits all.

REINER: Right.

SCIUTTO: Dr. Reiner, good to have you on to break through some of the misinformation on this. We appreciate it.

REINER: My pleasure. Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, Trump supporters surround a Biden campaign bus. Now the FBI is investigating. President Trump, however, calls them patriots.

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[09:40:56]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

Leading up to this election, there have been serious concerns about foreign interference, not just in the public debate about this election, which is happening, by the way, but also in the actual voting and vote counting process. So, with days to go, I asked a senior official with direct knowledge of election infrastructure in cyber operations if they have seen such activity, and this official says that to date there has been no evidence that a foreign adversary has gained access to election infrastructure. This is key.

Moreover, given the size, complexity and diversity of America's electoral system, this official says that no country has the ability to change the outcome of the election.

Now, the other concern is about the peaceful transfer of power, depending on the outcome of the election tomorrow. We should note that General Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has communicated to The Hill that ensuring a peaceful transfer of power is up to Congress, not the military. General Milley has said several times recently, and I'm quoting, "we don't swear an oath to an individual, a flag, a tribe, a religion. We swear an oath to the Constitution." Important words to hear today.

HARLOW: I mean, Jim, that certainly makes me feel reassured, much more reassured going into tomorrow. How should everyone feel hearing that this morning?

SCIUTTO: Well, they should hear that are -- there are hard-working Americans in positions of power who are fighting to defend the election system and having success in that sense but also are committed to the law here, and not the politics of this. They're committed to the law.

HARLOW: Yes. Amen to that.

All right, so the FBI now, after what happened this weekend, is investigating this incident, and you've probably seen it, but we'll play the video for you again. It involves the president's supporters and a Biden campaign bus.

Take a look at this video from Friday in Texas. You can see pickup trucks decorated with Trump flags surrounding this bus on the highway. The FBI is looking into possible harassment.

SCIUTTO: Well, imagine if you were on that bus.

CNN national correspondent Ed Lavandera is in Houston this morning.

The president, he's praising those supporters, even as the FBI investigates. He's praising them on social media, going so far as to call them patriots.

What do we know about the folks behind this?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this was an event that occurred Friday afternoon, on the same day that Kamala Harris was campaigning across the state. We should make clear that Kamala Harris was not on that bus, but it was a group of surrogates traveling from San Antonio to Austin along Interstate 35, a highly congested, highly busy corridor on that interstate when that Biden bus, according to sources that we've spoken with, were surrounded by these trucks in this Trump caravan.

And according to our sources that -- at some point the trucks had slowed down essentially trying to get that Biden/Harris bus to stop on Interstate 35. A very dangerous situation at one point. The -- one of the trucks scraped cars as they were driving down the interstate. So we do know that Biden officials inside that bus were making calls to 911. They ended up needing an escort to get the rest of the way from along the interstate all the way to Austin, Texas.

The president has been applauding and emboldening his Trump supporters that were in that caravan, saying that he thought that they were being nice, that they were, quote, trying to protect the caravan, which is really preposterous when you look at the video. And then the head of the Republican Party here in Texas is saying that any attempts to paint these Trump supporters as violent radicals is propaganda and fake news.

But you can watch that video and clearly judge for yourself what you're seeing on that video and the various videos that have emerged from that incident on Friday afternoon.

Jim and Poppy.

SCIUTTO: And we've seen others in other states blocking roads, et cetera, something we'll watch closely.

Ed Lavandera, thanks very much.

Well, listen to this figure now just updated, more than 95 million people, Americans, have now cast their early ballots in this election.

[09:45:01]

I mean that's 70 percent already of all the people who voted in 2016. Just remarkable turnout.

HARLOW: It's a really big number. The other all-important number, of course, is 270, the needed number of electoral votes.

Harry Enten joins us this morning.

Harry, I'm so wary of saying paths -- paths to victory. So we try to stay away from that word. But I do -- because they both have paths, right? And I want to talk about Pennsylvania. And can you explain to anyone watching this morning why is Pennsylvania, the keystone state, so key this election?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICS WRITER AND ANALYST: Sure. I think this graphic will sort of tell the story. And what essentially it is, if you're looking for Joe Biden's path to 270 electoral votes, if you start off with the Clinton states, that gets you 232.

Then you start moving through some other states, right, Wisconsin, where he's ahead by nine, Michigan, where he's ahead by eight, and then Pennsylvania, where he's ahead by six, that gets him right to the 270 electoral vote mark. So that is a very, very key state. And that's why Pennsylvania's arguably the most important state.

SCIUTTO: OK. But in an election of surprises, potentially, Arizona is also featuring prominently in your view. Tell us why.

ENTEN: Sure. So essentially if -- let's just say Joe Biden does not win the state of Pennsylvania, right, or the commonwealth of Pennsylvania, but he wins all the other states where he's leading by at least four points, you add in Arizona, plus Nebraska's second congressional district -- oh, this is a different -- a different thing here.

But essentially just to talk about Arizona. If you add in Arizona, plus Nebraska's second congressional district, plus Wisconsin, plus Michigan and all the Clinton states, you get Joe Biden to exactly 270 electoral votes. Even if he loses in Pennsylvania. So Arizona's a second pathway potentially for Joe Biden to get to 270 electoral votes.

HARLOW: Harry, can you talk about why it may be difficult for the polls in both Arizona and Pennsylvania to be wrong?

ENTEN: Yes. So this is rather interesting, right? What do we know about polling errors? We know that they tend to be correlated across regions and they tend to be correlated across demographics. And what we know about Arizona and Pennsylvania is not only are they in different regions, but they have different demographics, right?

We know that white voters without a college degree are much more important in Pennsylvania. We know Hispanic voters are much more important in Arizona. And we also know that Arizona is a much more urban/suburban state, as you see on your screen right here. And so usually when poll misses occur, they tend to occur across similar states, Pennsylvania, Ohio, not Arizona, which looks a lot different than Pennsylvania.

HARLOW: OK.

SCIUTTO: That is notable because, of course, people have a lot of 2016 PTSD based on polling errors that cycle.

OK, big picture, is not a slam dunk for Biden, but it is also not an easy path for President Trump.

ENTEN: Right. Exactly. You know, what we should note is that President Trump is behind in this race right now. And even if you had the average error that has occurred in close presidential races since 1972, that would not be enough for the president of the United States.

But I'd also note this true margin of error. It turns out there are these long tales with errors in close presidential races. So it's plus or minus nine percentage points, which, of course, Joe Biden's lead in Pennsylvania, Arizona and even Michigan are below that.

And so, at this particular point, if President Trump has a path to get to 270 electoral votes, he essentially needs to win in Pennsylvania, he needs to win in Arizona. And that even -- and, obviously, Florida and North Carolina, where Biden's leads are smaller. So it is possible that he does it, but it's a tough path.

HARLOW: Harry, we're grateful for your brain. I feel like you're going to stay up all week, but we need to you sleep and be rested because we're going to need it.

SCIUTTO: Sure. Maybe a little bit.

ENTEN: A little.

HARLOW: We're going to need it this week.

Harry, thank you. Really good to have you.

ENTEN: Thank you.

HARLOW: Well, Harry will be a big part of our special election night coverage at it starts, 4:00 Eastern tomorrow night on Election Day right here on CNN.

SCIUTTO: Overseas, the U.K. is set for another round of national lockdowns as cases there jump. For how long? And just how strict exactly will the rules be? We're going to be live in London with details, next.

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[09:54:00]

HARLOW: All right. Well, in the U.K. today, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson is going to lay out his plan to parliament for a second nationwide lockdown. This is as their infection rates have just spiked throughout England. If the measure passes, that takes effect at midnight on Thursday.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Just remarkable. A country of 60 million people there facing this.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: CNN's Nick Paton Walsh, he's in London.

Nick, exactly who would be affected by the lockdown and how strict is it, really?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Well, everyone in England will be affected. Remember, Whales, Scotland and Northern Ireland have got slightly stricter measures already in place. And Boris Johnson has been under intense pressure to do the thing that he's persistently said very publically he does not want to do, which is to introduce lockdown measures similar to that which we had in March, April and parts of May as well.

This will be a little bit different starting from midnight on Thursday because, importantly for many families, schools, universities, colleges will be allowed to remind open, as will some places of work. You'll be encouraged, frankly, to stay at home unless you have a very good reason not to. And bars, restaurants, non-essential shops will also be closed.

[09:55:03]

This is for a limited period of time, too, as well. Well, that's the initial sales pitch. And we'll hear more details when he speaks to parliament in about 35 minutes or so here in London. But we've already heard from government officials the possibility that the dreaded canceling of Christmas, the possibility that families won't be able to meet in the way that they want may be something they have to consider if the awful numbers continue to be as bad as they currently look.

Now, Boris Johnson, as I say, has been loath to introduce this, and it's become part of a retched, frankly, political debate in the U.K. Lockdown or continuing as best as we can to keep the economy afloat. On the front page of newspapers today, doubt being cast on some of the projections put forward by scientists when Boris Johnson originally announced these measures as well.

But he's expected to say, in the hour ahead, that if they didn't act, they might see twice or even more as many deaths as they did during the spring during this cold winter. Terrifying numbers indeed.

Jim. Poppy.

HARLOW: For sure. Nick, thank you very, very much. We'll watch and see what happens with them. Vote today. Thank you.

Also today in the United States, the final day for campaign events in the 2020 election. Candidates are making multiple stops across the country in key battleground states. Where they are headed and their closing case to the American people, that's next.

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[10:00:00]

SCIUTTO: Well, a very good Monday morning to you. It is a day till Election Day. I'm Jim Sciutto.

HARLOW: We are almost there, folks. I'm Poppy Harlow. Glad you're here.

A high stakes final push.