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Dr. Fauci on Coronavirus Vaccine, Help is on the Way; Supreme Court Hears Oral Arguments on Future of Obamacare; Sen. Mitch McConnell (D-KY) Speaks after Being Re-Elected Senate GOP Leader. Aired 11:30-12p ET

Aired November 10, 2020 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[11:30:00]

JOHN KING, CNN INSIDE POLITICS: Dr. Anthony Fauci calls the good news on a possible coronavirus vaccine, quote, light at the end of the tunnel. But remember that's still out there on the horizon. Let's look at the current data, which is depressing as we try to determine just how long the tunnel will be.

You look at the map, if you've been with us before, red and blue are bad. There's a lot -- red and orange, I'm sorry, are bad, and there's a lot of it here, 44 states trending in the wrong direction, 44 states reporting more new infections now compared to a week ago. And you see it is just everywhere. Six states holding steady, zero of the 50 states going in the right direction.

If you go back just one month ago, we were beginning to see trouble, but one month ago, 28 states trending up, two states trending down, and 20 holding steady. So the month-to-month trajectory is getting worse and this graph tells you all you need to know about it.

[11:35:00]

The first surge, summer surge and now this, this is just a straight up now going up like an arrow, above 120,000 cases a day, one day above 140. The seven-day average is miserable.

And here is the sad part here, beginning to see this go up as well. The death toll has stayed flat, every one of them is a friend and a neighbor and a coworker, somebody in your neighborhood but it's starting trickle back up again. So it's bad to be down here, it's even worse now trending up, about to go past 1,000 a day on average, and here is why. Beginning first wave, second wave, now, our third time up the hill, third time up the hill, hospitalizations now about 60,000 on a day, the average heading up as well, we're about to pass the two prior peaks when it comes to hospitalizations.

The news that Pfizer's vaccine tested well is good news but it will not be ready for everybody tomorrow. Listen to the Health and Human Services secretary explaining the timeline in the weeks ahead.

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ALEX AZAR, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: I'd be thinking in December we would be focusing on vaccinating the most vulnerable. We'll have to look at the data and see which groups but focused on the most vulnerable. And then by the end of January, we would have enough for all of our health care workers and first responders. And by the end of March, early April, we should have enough for all Americans, not just Pfizer but, of course, the other vaccines in our portfolio.

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KING: With us to share her expertise and her insights, our CNN Medical Analyst, Dr. Leana Wen. Dr. Wen, grateful for your time today.

So, I think it's important. We just heard Secretary Azar lay out this timeline. It will be months, months and months before most Americans have access to this vaccine and there's this dangerous spike in cases right now. Walk us through that challenge. Because I would think, psychologically, a lot of people are going to think, we got it, it's coming, I'm good and maybe let down their guard at a very dangerous moment.

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: That's right, John. So there is good news with this vaccine. I am cautiously optimistic because it is more than 90 percent thus far in preventing infection. But that's the key, we still don't know a lot. We don't know whether this vaccine is effective in preventing hospitalizations, severe disease and death. We also don't know whether it's effective in certain populations, like the elderly, and studies are just beginning in children. And so children, for example, are not going to be able to be vaccinated until probably mid to late 2021.

And then there are all these other steps involved too in manufacturing, distributing hundreds of millions of doses of this vaccine that needs to be kept at a super low temperature. That's a much lower temperature than any of the vaccines that we have to-date. And in the meantime, we really have to keep up our guard because we're looking at another season at least or multiple seasons but certainly this winter season when we are right now on track to having maybe 2,000 deaths a day or 200,000 new infections just this winter.

KING: Well, to that point, the president-elect, Joe Biden, has put together a team of experts that everyone I talked to in the public health community highly regards and I think it's a good team. It was striking and sadly breaking news that on the paper outline in the task force, the first bullet point was that they would respect science, that that is breaking news should be stunning and sad for anybody.

I want you to listen to one of the members, Dr. Michael Osterholm, here talking your point about where we are now and the danger in the days ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, BIDEN-HARRIS TRANSITION COVID-19 ADVISORY BOARD: We are watching cases increase substantially in this country far beyond, I think, what most people ever thought could happen. It would not surprise me if in the next weeks we see over 200,000 new cases a day.

Until we get to a vaccine available for all, we really have to deal with what's happening right now and that, by itself, is really going to be a challenge.

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KING: As someone who has been involved in government decisions, it's really fascinating to hear your perspective on what now when you have a Trump administration, at least from the president, who has just decided to ignore the pandemic for months, and the facts support that, I'm sorry to say, and now you have a new team that doesn't come in for 70 days.

So what has to happen in this period, between the existing administration and the incoming administration, to at least try to get a better handle on this?

WEN: Well, we can't count on the Trump administration for any leadership at this point on the virus. They've had nine months and they haven't done anything. But we can expect them to at least do their part to allow the incoming Biden team access to their scientists, access to data, access to the types of planning that's already in place to get this vaccine widely distributed to start with.

Also, I think vice president -- or President-elect Biden needs to do a lot more when it comes to communicating with the American people. His speech yesterday was a very good start. He should do these fire side chats and explain to the American people because he doesn't have executive power but he does have moral authority and he can help convince Americans about the things we can do right now in order to protect ourselves and our loved ones and he can convince governors and mayor who do have the executive authority themselves.

[11:40:00]

And so he can't do right now, he can at least lay out a national framework and have mayors and governors do their part in enforcing those necessary policies to contain this rapid surge that's happening now.

KING: Right. And let's hope the mayors and governors listen.

You mentioned earlier children. There's a new study from the American Academy of Pediatrics, 73,883 new cases among children across the country in the October 29th to November 5th period, nearly a million, if you look right there, 927,000 infected as of November. What are we learning? Is this just counting numbers or are we learning significant new things about children and the coronavirus?

WEN: Well, we are learning that children can become infected, that they can become severely ill, that the proportions of children getting ill still is much lower than proportions of adults getting ill. But we are getting increasing evidence that children can spread coronavirus as adults do, especially older children. And so I think this is cautionary for all of us.

I mean, it is so critical that schools stay open, but if we want to do that, then we have to limit the risks in other aspects of our society. And I don't just mean closing bars instead of schools, not only that, but also what are the things we can do to limit informal gatherings. So, don't have play dates if you want your kids to stay in school. Don't have dinner parties if you want to keep our restaurants open.

KING: Dr. Wen, grateful, as always, I appreciate your insights.

Coming up for us the Supreme Court considers the constitutionality of Obamacare, the Affordable Care Act, health care for millions hanging in a balance.

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[11:45:00]

KING: Supreme Court right now hearing oral arguments on the future of Obamacare as insurance coverage for millions of Americans now hinges on the high court's decision. It is the third time the Supreme Court has heard a challenge to the Affordable Care Act but the coronavirus pandemic, of course, placing even more focus on this litigation.

With me now is our CNN Supreme Court Reporter, Ariane de Vogue.

Ariane, the election, the future of Obamacare, the pandemic and a new court, a new justice increasing the spotlight here.

ARIANE DE VOGUE, CNN SUPREME COURT REPORTER: Absolutely. These oral arguments are beginning to wrap up. But I wanted to bring your attention to one interesting exchange, and that was Chief Justice John Roberts. Because at one point earlier during these oral arguments, he suggested that even if the court strikes down one provision of the law or maybe two, the entire law shouldn't fall. And he said that's, quote, not our job. And another point, it seemed like Justice Brett Kavanaugh agreed with him on that.

And let me step back just to explain why that's important. Remember in 2012, it was Roberts who upheld the law under the taxing power. In 2017, Congress moved to bring that tax penalty down to zero.

So the critics here, the Trump administration, Republican-led states, they rushed to court and they said, you've gotten rid of the legal underpinning of the law and the entire thing must fall, all 900 pages. That's critical, John, because that's provisions for preexisting conditions, it's the expansion of Medicaid. And that's why what Roberts and Kavanaugh said there was important.

And then we move to Justice Barrett, right, Amy Coney Barrett. At one point, she too did touch on what was Congress' intent in 2017. Did it mean to strike down the whole law? And that's why this exchange is really interesting. Take a listen.

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JUSTICE AMY CONEY BARRETT, U.S. SUPREME COURT: Well, what should we make of the fact that Congress didn't repeal the provision? I mean, you said earlier repeal and then you corrected yourself and said zeroed out. I mean, you're asking us to treat it as if it functionally has been repealed but that's not what Congress did. Does that matter?

MICHAEL MONGAN, CALIFORNIA SOLICITOR GENERAL: Your honor, I think Congress understood how this court had construed 5000a as a choice and it understood that it would make the provision effectively inoperative to zero out the tax.

And that was a reasonable thing for it to do. Obviously, it was operating under reconciliation procedures. That allowed it to make this change compliant with the Byrd rule and CBO had told it that there was no material difference between repealing the provision and zeroing out the tax.

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DE VOGUE: And, of course, Amy Coney Barrett will be key there, so will Trump's other two nominees, Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh. It's really hard to read how things are going based out of oral arguments, but those were really important clues there, John.

KING: Ariane, it's a fascinating case. We'll keep our eye on it but we'll have to wait a while, right, a couple of months before we know the answer?

DE VOGUE:: Yes.

KING: All right. We'll keep an eye on that. Ariane De Vogue, I very much appreciate the reporting there, as those arguments play out.

And still ahead for us, the U.K. announcing once a coronavirus vaccine is ready, it will not be mandatory there.

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[11:50:00]

KING: Straight to Capitol Hill, to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): -- our leadership elections for the leadership team for the next two years, and we're ready to get going, even though there's some suspense about exactly whether we'll be in the majority or not, which will be answered in Georgia on January 5th.

We have one member of our team that's brand new, Senator Rick Scott from Florida, who will take over the NRSC. I am going to call on each member for a couple words we'll take a couple of questions, and then we'll see you again after lunch.

John Thune?

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): Thank you, Leader, and congratulations to you and to all our members of the leadership team. This is a terrific leadership team and a wonderful conference, very diverse conference. And we've got some great new members who we're excited to get to work, to take on the challenges that face the American people. It's a -- and I think the election made it clear that people across this country reject the agenda that was put forward by the Democrats. If you look at the --

KING: Listening to the new Senate leadership team, most are existing members, Mitch McConnell, the majority leader for now. As he noted at the top, there are two runoff elections both in the state of Georgia on January 5th. If Democrats can win them both, the Senate then would flip to Democratic hands with the vice president, Kamala Harris, breaking the tie.

Let's get to CNN's Manu Raju right on Capitol Hill. Manu, this is the nuts and bolts, sort of the boring stuff that they have to do after an election, except it is not so boring in this case because the new leadership team now is in this uncertain period, especially for Republicans, when many of them are being asked, why won't the president accept the math.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And most of them are willing to side with the president's legal challenge. And I'm told behind closed doors right now in that meeting, they really didn't get into details about the president's fight. In fact, they talked mostly about what they want to accomplish, assuming they can keep the Senate majority.

This is consistent with what we have seen throughout the four years of the Donald Trump presidency, when he engages in a controversy, when something happens. Typically, this conference will side with the president, they won't debate what he is doing privately, they may have concerns, but it's not something that will come out in these closed door meetings.

Instead, what we expect is what Mitch McConnell said on the floor yesterday, and what we would expect him to say probably later today, is the president is within his rights, they view, to file any legal challenges to the election outcome, even though many are very skeptical that it would change anything here. And the fact that Joe Biden has more votes in key states and has won the Electoral College, the Republicans acknowledge that that is unlikely to change that.

Now, the question will be, with this Republican leadership team, what will they do if the president loses those legal challenges and refuses to concede the race. That is a bridge they have not yet crossed. They are saying they are willing to listen to what the courts have to say, what will they do if the president decides not to abide by what the courts have to say.

But, John, they need the president's support ahead of the Georgia runoffs in January. They need his supporters to come out, they need the president to rally the base because, in order for Mitch McConnell to retain that title as majority leader, they need to ensure that the Democrats do not win those two seats.

So they need to keep the team united, which is one reason why you are seeing Republicans side with this president, even if his long shot legal challenges may not succeed, they're getting behind him for now. They need him on their side if they want to keep the Senate majority for the next two years, John.

KING: And so tell me -- correct me if this is not a factual statement. So they are willing to protect and enable the president in his denial of the math because they want to keep their own power. And they fear if they break with the president, they will lose it, fair?

RAJU: That's certainly a fair assessment about how things are shaking out here. They have long viewed staying united with the president as the best way to stay in power. And they've seen the president, the amount of support with their base, the fact he got 71 million votes, the fact that he is still about 2.5 million votes in Georgia, even if he's -- looks like he may fall short in that state, they need those supporters come January 5th.

[11:55:03]

And one way to stay by him is not go after him, even if he is mounting these long shot legal challenges, stand little chance of succeeding, and raising concerns about the foundation of this democracy, they're standing behind this president at least for now, John.

KING: Georgia is about to become a fascinating laboratory in how people in a very competitive state view this discourse here in Washington, D.C. Manu, I appreciate the hustle and the live reporting.

Coming up for us, President Biden prepares for a legal battle as President Trump continues to refuse to acknowledge the election results, gums up the transfer of power process.

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KING: Back up to Capitol Hill, the majority leader taking questions.

REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE).

MCCONNELL: Well, look, what it says about America is that until the Electoral College votes, anyone who is running for office can exhaust concerns about counting in any court of appropriate jurisdiction. It is not unusual, should not be alarming. At some point here, we'll find out finally who is certified in each of these states and the Electoral College will determine the winner, and that person will be sworn in on January 20th. No reason for alarm.

REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE).

MCCONNELL: I don't think anything that's occurred so far interrupts an ordinary process of moving through the various steps that I indicated and allowing, if there is a new administration, it to work through the transition, all of the steps will be taken at the appropriate time. All of these steps will be taken at the appropriate time.

Now, I'm going to go over and open the Senate. We have another stakeout after lunch, and I'll be happy to take your questions then.

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