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COVID-19 Pandemic Growing; Trump Refuses to Acknowledge Election Loss. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired November 10, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: This was really a cool hand, cooler heads prevail sort of press conference, hoping to, on the one hand, tell foreign leaders, I'm here. I will be there January 20. The American people, no matter what happens, I will be there January 20.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: You know, Gloria, we had a former DOJ official on who was talking about how, if you looked at the 9/11 report, one of the things they found was that the Bush administration had sort of struggled to fully ramp up its national security apparatus the way it might otherwise have if there hadn't been the delay of finding out the result of the election--

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Right.

KEILAR: -- and that things can fall through the cracks during a transition.

So, we hear Biden downplaying it. But from the experts that I have spoken to, and I'm sure that you have spoken to, especially in the realm of national security, they have big concerns.

BORGER: They do, although I will tell you something. Bush had access to the presidential daily brief.

So, and--

KEILAR: Al Gore did too, right? Didn't they both have it there?

BORGER: You're right, because--

KEILAR: OK.

BORGER: Because he was -- yes, because he was vice president.

But I think that what he's trying to do, what Biden is trying to do here is say, don't worry, don't worry. You're going to be safe. Let's lower the temperature here. One president at a time. I'm going to be president. I'm going to take that oath of office on January 20, no matter what Donald Trump is doing, because I was duly elected. So, while you have the president of the United States tweeting in all

caps, saying, I won the election, et cetera, et cetera, you have Joe Biden being again -- and we say this all the time -- the polar opposite, taking the temperature down, and saying, we can do this transition. We have experience. We know what we're doing. I'm talking to foreign leaders. Don't worry about Mitch McConnell. I will talk to him when he's ready. And, Mr. President, I'm looking forward to your phone call.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: And can I just add one thing about Mitch McConnell on that very question you asked, Brianna?

Our colleague Manu Raju asked the Senate majority leader that very question, asked about the fact that the 9/11 report said that one of the reasons America wasn't ready was because of the long transition in the 2000 recount. And what McConnell responded to Manu by saying was, I don't think we're going to have an interrupted transition to whoever is in the next administration. "I thought -- I think we ought to quit all the hand-wringing and not act like this is extraordinary."

BORGER: Which it is.

KEILAR: OK, so it sounds like -- and, Laura, you can weigh in legally. It is hugely extraordinary. He says it's not alarming.

It is alarming. But it sounds more like everyone's just kind of thinking that, eventually, President Trump is going to come around, get it together, figure it out, concede, or at least release the ability to manage this transition and shift it over to Joe Biden.

But what happens if that doesn't happen? What is the recourse?

COATES: Well, first of all, us making assumptions that President Trump will fall in line with the norms has not worked out for the past four years. He has been a norm-breaker.

And he has pointed out a number of times that what's behind that in case of emergency break glass when it comes to our democracy is often questions about, what do we do now? And so your concern and your question is a good one in figuring out what if Biden decides and his team to actually have litigation recourse?

He's on pretty firm grounds, because, of course, the document that actually will begin the process of transferring over the $9.9 million worth of taxpayer dollars to a transition team is something that is a bureaucratic red tape notion, but one in which is supported that we already have a constitutional portion that says, January 20, a new president shall be installed.

And so he's got the Constitution and his grounds. He's got the idea these are taxpayer dollars. The idea of uncertainty and a bald assertion by the incumbent president that he should remain in power is not going to be enough to persuade that that should be kicked down the road.

But, ultimately, the biggest thing to think about right now is that December 8. All of this, all the conversations about Mitch McConnell and deciding whether or not he will accept who the president-elect will be for January 20 comes down to that safe harbor deadline and whether these states are able to certify their elections in time in order to remove the question from the Senate and the House.

As long as it remains in the hands of the people and goes to the electorate based on that certification deadline, well, a lot of the power is taken away, the wind out of the sails from the Senate and Congress. So we're looking at that date.

KEILAR: Dana, real quick, before we wrap this up here, Biden was asked about what Pompeo said, which was that there was going to be a transition to a second Trump administration.

But Biden laughed. Like, he didn't really answer the question, but he laughed when he said Pompeo's name and his title out loud.

BASH: Yes, because he was trying to signal that's ridiculous and I'm not going to take the bait and I'm not going to justify that with a response.

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The issue is, he's secretary of state, as we have all talked about, and everybody around the world listens to him, because that's his job. And if there is somebody out there who wants to do harm and sees that, I mean, that is the concern.

And you know, Bri, and Gloria also. You have been talking to national security experts. That is the concern that people have when they hear the secretary of state saying things like that nobody thinks is realistic. They think, this is -- there's a crack in the greatest democracy in America.

What Joe Biden was trying to say was, no, there isn't.

KEILAR: All right, you guys, thank you so much for this conversation, such an important one to have as we watch this extraordinary moment.

And our special coverage will continue now with Brooke Baldwin.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Brianna, we will take it. Thank you so much.

Hi, everyone. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN.

Let's jump right into it. The president-elect, Joe Biden, has just now spoken out on President Trump and his allies' refusal to accept the result of the election. You have just heard the president-elect there calling the Trumps -- Trump's actions a -- quote -- "embarrassment," something that will tarnish his legacy.

He also said this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: First of all, we are already beginning the transition. We're well under way. And the ability for the administration in any way by failure to recognize our win does not change the dynamic at all in what we're able to do.

We're going to be going, moving along in a consistent manner, putting together our administration in the White House and reviewing who we're going to pick for the Cabinet positions. And nothing is going to stop that.

And so I'm confident that the fact that they're not willing to acknowledge we won at this point is not of much consequence in our planning and what we're able to do between now and January 20.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Those remarks coming as President Trump continues to undermine the legitimacy of the entire electoral process and delay this transition of power.

And while the president keeps making false claims about voter fraud, top Republican leaders are enabling him. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell will not acknowledge president-elect Biden's victory. You heard him here this time yesterday saying Trump is -- quote -- "within 100 percent within his rights" to challenge the results.

And just this morning, Senator McConnell went further, saying there is no cause for alarm. And if there is a new administration, he says the transition will happen at the appropriate time.

And just to add on to that now, this afternoon, I want you to hear what Secretary of State Mike Pompeo just told reporters when he was asked if the State Department will cooperate with the Biden transition.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE POMPEO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: There will be a smooth transition to a second Trump administration.

All right, we're ready. The world is watching what's taking place here. We're going to count all the votes. When the process is complete, there will be electors selected. There's a process. The Constitution lays it out pretty clearly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: You heard him, a smooth transition to a second Trump administration.

And then the president also is getting support from his attorney general, Bill Barr, who is once again weaponizing the Department of Justice, this after he told federal attorneys to investigate those unsubstantiated claims of voter fraud.

Let's start with you, Arlette Saenz, there live in Wilmington, Delaware.

And so starting with the president-elect, in addition to that embarrassment line from him about Trump, the other line that really struck me was just how he was asked about all these Republicans who aren't acknowledging his win. And his response? They will.

What did you make of that?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, Brooke, what president- elect Joe Biden was essentially trying to do here was lower the temperature a little bit and trying to make the case that he can still move forward with what he needs to do during this transition period.

He's trying to show that he's not affected by the fact that the president won't concede or that the ascertainment for his transition isn't being granted to him at this point.

He strictly wants to make it clear that there are still things that he can move forward with in this transition process. You also heard him talk about his calls with foreign leaders that he's already starting to conduct, telling them that America is back and America is ready to work with them.

But you heard these comments from Biden, where he called the president's decision so far not to concede, he warned that it's an embarrassment, warns that it could tarnish his legacy.

But, overall, he was really just trying to strike a lower tone when it comes to these questions about whether his transition can fully operate. And, in fact, just a short while ago, his transition team announced the agency review teams that will eventually go forward into the different -- different departments and agencies to ease the transition process.

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One way that they're kind of getting around the ascertainment aspect not yet being granted to them is by having these agency teams already ready to go. They're going to start by talking to former agency leaders and experts. And then, once that ascertainment has been granted, those teams can go into the federal agencies and determine where things stand and what needs to be done.

So, the Biden transition is really trying to make it clear that they still can move forward with their work, despite this ascertainment not occurring and despite the president not yet conceding the election.

Of course, Joe Biden wants the president to concede, so they can fully operate. But, at this moment, he's really trying to lower the temperature in all of this -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: I think your point is so spot on. He ended by saying, "We can pull the country out of the bitter politics we have seen for the last couple of years."

Arlette, thank you very much. Let's get the White House perspective on all of this. Let's go to the

White House for how the Trump administration is responding to this.

Boris Sanchez is there for us live.

And so, Boris, what are you hearing from team Trump today?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Much of the same, Brooke.

To pick up where Arlette left off, from a White House perspective, the president is stalling. He's dragging his feet. And according to sources who spoke with CNN across government agencies, he has put out the word through his staff that government agencies are not to cooperate in any way with the Biden team on a transition that would install Joe Biden, the president-elect, as commander in chief.

The president has also let federal agencies know that he doesn't want them to do anything that would even imply that Joe Biden won last week's election. So that's where the president's head is at. We haven't actually seen him in quite a while, since last Thursday, when he took to the podium here at the White House press Briefing Room and espoused a bunch of conspiracy theory nonsense about how he is the legitimate winner of the election.

He has been very vocal on Twitter. But we have heard from sources that the president has noticed that Biden himself is taking on a much more public profile and appearing more presidential, doing these briefings and speeches, and also fielding calls from world leaders that Trump does not get along with, congratulating him on becoming president- elect.

One final note I wanted to point to, Brooke, within the last hour or so, we heard from our colleague Manu Raju, who learned that Vice President Mike Pence in his lunch with Republican senators was presenting the details of the lawsuits being filed by the Trump campaign and their allegations of voter fraud.

Again, no evidence that there was widespread voter fraud, but he's presenting it to them. And at least one Republican senator, John Kennedy of Louisiana, said that the vice president's presentation was -- quote -- "very impressive," though he said to Manu Raju that he doesn't know if it will be enough to overturn the results of the election -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Right. We have been talking to so many lawyers just saying they really don't have teeth.

Boris Sanchez, we will continue following that. Thank you.

Let's discuss all of the above.

With me now, CNN legal analyst Elie Honig. He's also a former assistant U.S. attorney and a former federal and state prosecutor. And also with us, CNN political analyst Jackie Kucinich the Washington bureau chief for The Daily Beast. So, let's roll right into it, Jackie, just starting with you.

Listening to the president-elect there, Biden, to Arlette's point, starting to try to lower the temperature, says he's already starting the transition, says Republicans will work with him.

What do you make of his message just now?

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I mean, it's very consistent. That's what he said he was going to do when he was running for president just two weeks ago, projecting calm, not letting himself be rattled by some of the tactics of the Trump administration, that they won't give him access to transition funds.

He says they don't need them. It'd be great if they had them, but it's fine, some of the other pillars that he said they're setting up independent of whether the Trump -- whether or not the Trump campaign or the Trump administration -- excuse me -- allows them to do so officially.

Even Secretary of State Mike Pompeo's lighthearted fashion over at the State Department, he laughed. Just he's not -- he's projecting this: I'm calm. This is going to happen.

And, also, I mean, I have to say one of the other things he talked about is Republicans coming around. Now, that, I think you would have perhaps some Democrats say, that might not happen. However, his message of, just wait, it's going to work itself out really seemed to be throughout that entire press conference.

BALDWIN: No, it just goes to listening to Chris Coons on our air earlier this morning, Democratic senator, essentially saying, hey, behind the scenes, I'm hearing from my Republican friends saying, hey, can you pass along congratulations to the president-elect? We just can't quite say that publicly yet.

Elie, let's talk about Bill Barr, the attorney general now telling federal prosecutors to look into those unsubstantiated claims of voter fraud. A, is this normal for the Justice Department? And, B, how real are the A.G.'s threats?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Brooke, certainly not normal.

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Watching the press conference just now really drove this home to me. What Bill Barr is doing is dangerous. It is dangerous. Here's why. We have people across this country who are legitimately concerned about whether we will have a peaceful transition of power. I hear it from our viewers. I hear it from friends. You could see it in the questions that were just posed to the president-elect. Are we going to have a smooth transition of power?

Now, the answer is yes. I mean, Joe Biden said they will. He's right. Our constitutional processes are too strong. Our laws are too strong. They will overcome all of this resistance. So, we are going to have a smooth transition of power. The other

problem they have is, they have no evidence whatsoever. I look at these lawsuits. They are flimsier than the paper they're written on. There is no proof massive fraud.

BALDWIN: There you go.

HONIG: But the narrative matters so much. I mean, Mike Pompeo said one idiotic thing today and one smart thing. The idiotic thing was, we're going to have a second Trump transition. The smart thing was, he said, the world is watching.

You bet the world is watching. And they are seeing this. It's undercutting our democracy. It's undercutting what this country is all about. It's a real danger to our democratic institutions.

BALDWIN: So, if we have Joe Biden, who clearly is reflecting this confidence that these Republicans eventually will get hip to the fact that he will be the president and they will be working with him, Jackie, I'm just wondering, if you think of the Mitch McConnells, you think of the Bill Barrs, you think of, to your point about Mike Pompeo and his comments earlier today, they are -- they are enabling -- at this moment, they are enabling the president and his baseless claims.

Is it fear? Is it keeping the momentum going because of the control of the Senate and these two special elections in Georgia? Like, why do you think they're doing this?

KUCINICH: Well, I mean, the president is still the head of the Republican Party. And even when he leaves office, he still will be a major force in the Republican Party.

I think several of these people are looking down the line and looking at their political future or the political future of their Republican Conference and don't want to be the one who look like they deserted the president in the time that he needed them to enable him the most.

And if it's--

BALDWIN: But why not? He lost.

KUCINICH: He did lose. You're absolutely right.

But the president -- but this president values loyalty, and people keeping in line more than anything else. And his -- the people that voted for the president, which were millions and millions of people, are watching these Republican leaders that are very much still in power and how they're handling and how they're treating, because that's what the president cares about, this president on his way out, whether or not he is ready to go.

BALDWIN: You're right. And it's such a great reminder for everyone; 71 million people voted for President Trump

Elie, I want to ask you about the issue with the ascertainment and then the GSA. The Biden team is weighing legal options to get the GSA to release crucial resources for the transition. You just heard the president-elect there himself say he doesn't need the legal action when it comes to getting what he needs.

Is that fair? I mean, he's not getting PDBs. He needs classified information. This could be detrimental to the national security. Where do you stand on all this?

HONIG: I totally understand where the president-elect is coming from. I think he recognizes that going to court and to fight this battle will up the temperature. And I think he's trying to take it down and keep everyone cool.

Ultimately, though, this is not a trivial matter. I mean, we're four days into the transition. The Biden team is being denied crucial information about our national security, our military, our justice apparatus.

So, I think what the president-elect is going to do is see how this goes for a bit longer. But he doesn't want to take out that sort of nuclear option just yet. But, ultimately, if he continues to be denied the access to transition materials, then I think he should go to court and fight for it. It's too important.

BALDWIN: Last question.

Jackie, this is for you. I mentioned this a second ago. Democratic Senator Chris Coons was on our air this morning. He was talking about how he's hearing something very different from his Republican colleagues on the Hill behind the scenes. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): Bluntly, that they except that -- I mean, they call me to say, congratulations. Please convey my well-wishes to the president-elect, but I can't say that publicly yet.

And so these are conversations best kept private.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: When will they be able to say it out loud, Jackie, to your point a second ago? Will it be until after the Electoral College meets mid-December? Will it be January 20, Inauguration Day?

How long?

KUCINICH: I think it varies with whether or not someone is in cycle next election.

BALDWIN: Yes.

KUCINICH: But, to your point, I mean, Brooke, we have seen this throughout the Trump administration, right, where Republicans are expressing concerns and the like behind closed doors and not in front of the cameras, because they don't want to incur the wrath of the president and his supporters. BALDWIN: Jackie Kucinich, Elie Honig, great to see both of you. Thank

you both so much.

Coming up next: A top infectious disease expert warns that we are all about to enter -- quote -- "COVID hell," as cases surge. We will tell you why.

And more than 30 former Republican lawmakers are now calling on the president to admit defeat. I will talk live to one of them.

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And the Supreme Court today hearing arguments over the Affordable Care Act this morning, and the attorneys insisting it should be struck down got some real pushback from conservative justices.

You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: We're back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

The U.S. now tops 10 million coronavirus cases, with infection spreading all across the country at an alarming rate. A top infectious disease doctor warns that we are all about to enter -- quote, unquote -- "COVID hell."

Let's get the latest numbers from CNN national correspondent Athena Jones.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): America is heading in the wrong direction in the fight against COVID-19, coronavirus infections now rising in 44 states, new daily cases topping 100,000 every day for the past week.

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GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): People are letting their guard down. They're taking their masks off. They're starting to get together outside of their household cohorts. As it gets colder, we will see more still.

JONES: Thirty-two states seeing their highest seven-day averages for new cases, among them, Illinois, where the governor announced new restrictions in some areas.

And experts warn it's about to get a lot worse.

DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH: We are watching cases increase substantially in this country far beyond, I think, what most people ever thought could happen. It will not surprise me if in the next weeks we see over 200,000 new cases a day.

JONES: More cases mean more hospitalizations. Monday saw the largest single-day increase in the number of people hospitalized since early July, the total number a nationwide nearing the April peak, 17 states reporting record hospitalizations, including Utah, where the governor declared a state of emergency and issued a statewide mask mandate, Nebraska, where new restrictions, including new rules on masks, take effect Wednesday, and Idaho.

DR. JOSHUA KERN, ST. LUKE'S HEALTH SYSTEM: The numbers continue to be very high. We continue to have 50-plus patients with COVID in the hospital. And just for a reference point, back in September, we were having maybe 10 or even less sometimes patients in the hospital with COVID.

JONES: As more people are hospitalized with severe illness, the number of deaths also rises. In El Paso, Texas, hospital morgues have reached the brink, officials adding for mobile morgues to the six already in place to handle the overflow, a county judge now likely to extend a two week lockdown.

The startling spikes across the country driving home the point that, even if a vaccine is made available in the coming weeks, it won't be enough to stop this dangerous surge without additional measures.

DR. MARK MCCLELLAN, FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER: What we need to rely on now is mass and distancing. We have got some hard work to do before vaccines are going to make a difference over the next few months.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JONES: And to give you a sense of just how much and how quickly coronavirus cases are rising nearly everywhere, if you look at the five states with the lowest seven-day COVID test positivity rate -- these are the places that were doing well -- on Friday, all five were still under 2 percent positivity.

Yesterday, just one was over 2 percent. But, today, four out of the five have surpassed that 2 percent positivity number. It's something that's raising real concerns here in New York City, where this positivity rate stands at 2.8 percent. If it hits 3 percent on that seven-day rolling average, that means that schools will go to remote learning and more restrictions will have to come back -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: I know we're all kind of bracing for this winter, aren't we?

Athena Jones, thank you so much for the update there in New York.

Coming up next, I will speak with one of the more than 30 former Republican lawmakers who says it is time for President Trump to concede.

Plus, Georgia's Republican secretary of state is under attack by members of his own party for not finding significant fraud in his state's election. Among those who want him out, the two Republican senators facing run-offs there in January. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)