Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Trump Throws Transition into Chaos with Leadership Shake-Ups, Vote Fraud Claims; U.S. Seeing Record Number of COVID-19 Cases, Hospitalizations; Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL) Headlines Georgia Rally for Sen. Kelly Loeffler (R-GA), Sen. David Perdue (R-GA). Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired November 11, 2020 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00]

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: He will win those three electoral votes. That's entirely expected.

Better news for Republicans is that Dan Sullivan has been reelected Senator from Nebraska. That's something that Mitch McConnell will welcome.

But the president still has not accepted the reality, not prepared to embrace the reality of what's happened to him. He met with advisers yesterday, signaled he's going to persist on these legal claims and these phony political claims that he's making. It is likely that the legal claims crash and burn next week. There's no evidence that's been presented, almost entirely courts have shunted aside these claims that he's making.

But this is the situation the president has not faced in his life before. Throughout his childhood, throughout his career in business, he's always been able to bluster or B.S. or by his way out of difficult situations, lawyers, lawsuits, legal settlements. This is a case where he has run into a brick wall of the American electorate.

77 million votes and counting, clear majority for Joe Biden. And the president just doesn't have many options beyond trying to send out messages, rouse his base, raise money from his base. He sent out more than 100 email solicitations for money during this period while he's refused to concede the election.

And it's only a matter of time before that resistance wears down. We don't know if that comes next week or subsequent to that. We know that the states are supposed to certify the results of their electoral outcomes by December the 8th. That is an endpoint of some sort. And we will wait for a signal from senior Republicans to try to call an end to this but the president is certainly not prepared to call an end to it yet.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: It's amazing that recognizing reality is somehow a sign of wisdom or character. John Harwood, thanks very much.

Well, President-elect Biden is meeting with his transition team later today as the country sees its worst week so far in this pandemic.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Let's get to our M.J. Lee. She joins us this hour in Delaware. She's following the Biden camp.

So, what will they do today?

M.J. LEE, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, guys, four days later and still no concession from the president, but Joe Biden is moving ahead with his transition plans. So far this week, we've already seen him announce his COVID advisory board. Yesterday, we obviously saw him give a press conference and talk about the future of the Affordable Care Act. And today, he is going to be busy meeting with some of his transition advisers.

And, basically, what we are seeing from the president-elect is trying to project a sense of calm. And what CNN is being told is that this does reflect the mindset of some of his closest advisers as well, that they basically feel like, let's not be too aggressive right now, that there's no upside to doing that. Here is a little bit of Biden yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: We are already beginning the transition. We're well under way. And the ability for the administration, in any way, by failure to recognize our win, does not change the dynamic at all and what we're able to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEE: Now, something else that Biden has been doing this week is speaking with foreign leaders who have been congratulating him on his victory. So, such a stark contrast between these international leaders and how they are treating the results of the election and some of the Republican leaders in our own country.

And I should quickly note as well, even though he is projecting calm, the fact that the president hasn't conceded yet does have real ramifications for the president-elect. He is not able to tap into some of those transition funds, he is not able to receive the classified presidential daily briefings. And when he was asked about this yesterday, he essentially said, look, would it be nice to get those things? Sure. But for the time being, it is not entirely necessary because I am not yet president. Guys?

HARLOW: A lot of patience for sure from him on that. M.J., thanks very much.

Lisa Lerer is with us, National Political Reporter from The New York Times, and Jack Goldsmith, former Assistant Attorney General under former President George W. Bush and co-author of this book, After Trump, Reconstructing the Presidency. Very good to have you. Thanks so much for joining us.

Jack, let me start with you, it's my first time having you on. You're a conservative. You worked in the Bush administration. But you talk about the steamrolling of norms by this president even going out of office as something that will or could do, quote, lasting damage to both the stature of the presidency and the institutions of democracy. Yes or no, are the actions of the president is taking now putting this country in danger?

JACK GOLDSMITH, PROFESSOR, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL: Clearly it's not great for our democracy.

HARLOW: Okay.

SCIUTTO: That's a fair -- let's put some teeth on that, if we can, for a moment.

[10:05:03]

Because there are sitting members of Congress who were around in their positions at the time of 9/11, and the 9/11 commission report specifically cited the shortened transition after the 2000 election for having an impact on national security. I'm quoting here, it hampered the new administration in identifying, recruiting, clearing and obtaining Senate confirmation of key appointees.

The fact is we have experienced for how shortened transitions make a difference in national security. Why aren't we hearing from Republicans about that, granting that potential danger?

GOLDSMITH: I mean, you're absolutely right. The 9/11 board in a situation very analogous to this, where the General Services Administration would not certify the winner and therefore delayed access by the president-elect to intelligence briefings and early pre- clearances for classified information. They said that that was one of the reasons that may have led to 9/11. And we're going to be doing basically the same thing because they're not allowing the Biden -- President-elect Biden, to have access to these resources.

I can't explain why some Republicans are acting this way. Maybe they don't understand the implications. It's a very dangerous game that they're playing.

HARLOW: Lisa, Andy Card and Jim Podesta, who worked as White House chief of staff of President Bush and Trump respectively, have a really important op-ed in The Washington Post. Let me read you this line from a quote, while we disagreed about many issues then and have disagreed since, we do agree on one thing, the 2020 election is not like 2000 and it shouldn't be treated as such. It's germane because that is the example that GSA is using now for not signing off on this paperwork to carry forth with the transition.

How important is it to hear from those two voices together, and the point they make that this is not 2000?

LISA LERER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think that's really important and that's what all of the reporting has shown. I mean, at times we spent yesterday calling dozens of officials in dozens of states across the country. They said they saw no evidence of significant fraud. Many of the lawsuits filed by the Trump campaign have been dismissed. There is no evidence here whatsoever that any of these efforts by President Trump are going to change the outcome of the election.

What is happening here is about the president's ego and him coming to terms with what is quite obviously a loss, that he lost the presidency.

The question now becomes how long Republicans are going to go along with it and we have seen more Republicans in the past couple of days coming out and saying that the country needs to move forward and not quite congratulating Biden as president-elect but clearly indicating that that's where things are going to go.

I think the Republicans are in a political bind here. Clearly, Trumpism has a hold on their party. They know they have two big Senate seats in Georgia that are for runoff election in January that will determine who will have control of the Senate. And I think if you're Mitch McConnell, he wants to ensure that the president will be very involved with those races, turning out his base and the Republican base.

But the question is how long they put those political motives ahead of what really the country's national security, which is what we're talking about here.

SCIUTTO: Jack, your book is about the way forward after Trump. And I just wonder speaking to folks because, at some point, the new president will be in the White House, Joe Biden. What steps would you recommend that he take to repair some of the damage, just the national security but to the divisions? I know it's a long list, but what would be your first couple of pieces of advice to him?

GOLDSMITH: I mean, it's a 400-page book with 70 or so reforms. But I think at the top of the list achievable reforms, once where there can either be bipartisan support President Biden can implement them directly are, first, cleaning up and ensuring that the norms of conflicts of interest, financial corruption, tax disclosure, that those are no longer left to the whims of a president and that they are legally required that the president can't do what President Trump has been doing.

The second is -- and there is bipartisan consensus on that for 50 years before Trump. The second is, this is the second election, a serious danger of foreign electoral interference. There's a lot that in the air that there should be bipartisan consensus for bringing (ph) that up.

And then, third, President Biden (INAUDIBLE) a lot of things and his attorney general to basically buck up the norms concerning law enforcement, rule of law, White House interference with ongoing investigations, norms that President Trump obviously violated.

[10:10:00]

There are ways you can take, again, with assistance from Congress, to ensure that the next president, like Trump, has a harder time doing what Trump has done.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: Lisa, the front page headline of the paper this morning, your paper today, says so much. I mean, this is a full banner of -- you guys called them all. You called all of them, all the secretaries of state and election officials in every state, and none of them said, yes, there is widespread fraud in our state.

Still though, you have what's happening in Georgia with the two sitting Republicans senators there attacking and trying to oust their own Republican secretary of state. I guess my question to you is, politically, here, are Republicans who are standing by the president's false claims or doing what they're doing in Georgia paying any political price for that, or are they not?

LERER: Well, we're going to have to see, right? And the Georgia runoff elections, as you mentioned, will be a really good test of that. That will be early January. But what is clear is this election was not a resounding denunciation of the president and of Trumpism in the Republican Party. In fact, the president got more votes than just about any one in American history except for Joe Biden.

So, Republicans, I think, are deeply conscious of the hold that the president still has on their party, and I think that they recognize that they need President Trump to get out there in those Georgia races and rally the base. And that's part of the dynamic that we see at play here.

And for Biden, the politics are also rather tricky. This is someone who ran on a message of unity, on working across the aisle. So even though he knows Republicans are taking this approach, that is very harmful for national security, for our democratic institutions. He's really boxed into a position where he can't come out and go really hard against Republicans because it would seem to set a tone that conflicts with a message he just spent more than a year running on, and that he believes voters elected him implement.

So, both parties are really in this very difficult position, politically, in how they maneuver out of this in the next couple of months, in the next month or so will be the dynamics to watch in Washington.

SCIUTTO: Although Trump did underperform, his own party should be noted. Well, Lisa Lerer, Jack Goldsmith, the book is After Trump, Reconstructing the Presidency, lots of recommendations in there. Let's hope folks are listening. Thanks to both of you.

Well, the United States has smashed records for new coronavirus infections and hospitalizations. Dr. Sanjay Gupta will join us next to share what can be done to turn around these numbers.

HARLOW: And also, we just mentioned it, the battle for Georgia, both parties holding rallies this hour for that runoff election. Candidates that could determine, will determine the balance of power in the Senate.

And while the election has been called for President-elect Biden, disinformation on the result running rampant online, false claims keep piling up almost faster than social media companies can address them. We'll talk about that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:15:00]

SCIUTTO: All right. Well, hospitals across the state of Tennessee are now nearing capacity due to a sharp increase in coronavirus infections there. 91 percent of the state's intensive care beds are currently in use as the U.S. surpasses a record with more than 60,000 active COVID- 19 hospitalizations nationwide.

HARLOW: Let's bring in our Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Good morning, Sanjay.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

HARLOW: Why is this happening right now almost everywhere?

GUPTA: Well, you know, I mean, this has been predicted for some time. We knew going into the colder weather months that things were going to get worse in part because viruses tend to spread more easily during this time. And at the same time, I mean, even some of the basic public health measures that people maybe got more diligent about after they saw the spikes in the summer, people got very relaxed on that again, increased mobility in the fall, all of that adding up to this.

And when you look at that hospitalization graphic, which, by the way, the hospitalizations numbers, out of all of the metrics we talk about that's the one that I usually play closest attention to because I think it's the truest, most consistent measure. But keep in mind, that's reflective of what was happening in this country in terms of newly reflected people a month ago, right, so, middle of October, roughly. And how many people were becoming infected daily at that point, around 50,000.

That has led now to this surge in hospitalizations here with 60,000 people in the hospital. What is it going to look like four weeks from now? What is it going to look like after the holidays? I mean, it's going to get worse. And that's the real concern. That's why administrators of hospitals all over the country are doing exactly what they're talking about happening in Washington, D.C., like you mentioned.

SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean, will it be worse than what we saw was the worst in the spring?

Okay, let's talk about masks. The CDC changed their mask guidelines last night. They're now saying that wearing masks not only helps prevent someone from transmitting the virus but also protects them. I'm curious what changed, because I thought that was already the science there.

GUPTA: Yes. Well, Jim, I mean, it is a little confusing. I mean, if you look at the CDC's website up until the day before yesterday, it basically said that the mask -- the evidence they had, the masks were worn to protect people around the wearer of the mask. That's what's called source control. You're controlling the source, which is the person wearing the mass and preventing as much virus from getting into the environment.

I think you're absolutely right. People long believed and thought very reasonable from a common sense standpoint that probably those masks would protect the wearer as well.

[10:20:00]

But you want data around this and that's what the data that's being reflected now in this new CDC guidance sort of reflects. And it's still observational studies, looking at large populations of people and seeing what's happening.

I think we can show you like one of the observational studies out of Thailand. It's interesting, they basically said 1,000 people in high- risk environments, the 1,000 people who wore masks had a 70 percent reduced risk of infection compared to the group of people who were in those same environments, so same high-risk environments and weren't wearing masks.

Again, maybe this is common sense but this idea of wearing it to not only protect those around you but to protect yourself is something the CDC is now strongly recommending. And it doesn't change the advice for people. You should still wear masks.

I did think it was interesting, and this is a little bit of a change in tone from what I normally see on the CDC. They also made an economic argument, as you may have seen, basically saying in this country, if we increase mask-wearing about 15 percent, it would save us about a trillion dollars because it would be more likely to be able to keep businesses open, reduce the overall impact of the pandemic and sort of change the trajectory of the curve.

HARLOW: Wow, that's saying a lot. And maybe that will encourage people who are not encouraged to wear them to actually do it.

Before you go, what about antibody therapy, Eli Lilly, for example? Do foresee potential problems in the roll out of this after it gets the EUA from the FDA?

GUPTA: Well, the way that this plays out is this is an antibody therapy giving antibodies, which are proteins that can help fight the infection. For it to work best, you give it to people with mild illness, typically, mild or maybe early-to-moderate illness. People are not typically in the hospital at that point but to get this therapy, they need to get it in the hospital. It's an infusion that they need to get in the hospital. So that's one of the challenges.

The other is that you've got some 80,000 diagnoses right now. Going back to the numbers, 100,000 people, let's say, being diagnosed every day, let's say even 10 percent of them have mild or moderate symptoms, that's a conservative number, that would mean, within eight days, you would have 80,000 doses that would be qualified for. My point is that this is great and I think antibody therapies are going to be very helpful, but we don't have nearly enough. It's a big task to infuse it in the hospital so we're going to have to overcome some of those obstacles in order to make this as effective for people as possible.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Sanjay Gupta, thanks, as always.

GUPTA: You got it, thank you.

SCIUTTO: Still to come this hour, Georgia is on everyone's mind. This hour rallies, are being held for the state Senate runoff elections in January. The state's embattled secretary of state about to hold a press conference in minutes. A live update is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:25:00]

SCIUTTO: The battle for Georgia and control of the Senate already well under way. Happening now, Senator Kelly Loeffler and Florida Senator Marco Rubio are headlining a rally in the Atlanta suburbs ahead of runoff elections scheduled for January.

CNN's Dianne Gallagher following the latest. Of course, not just Senator Loeffler out on the trail, Dianne?

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Jim, yes. The entire state of Georgia is basically Team No Sleep at this point. Senator Kelly Loeffler is at a Save Our Majority rally right now with Florida Senator Marco Rubio, both for Loeffler and for Georgia Senator David Perdue, who is no there, instead his wife is at this rally.

But, again, they're trying to remind voters in Georgia that just because general election is over, their duty is not, because they have those two runoff races in January that they need to make sure people come out for.

Now, Democrats, as well, Democratic Senate Jon Ossoff, who is running against Senator David Perdue, is in the middle of this seven city statewide marathon tour trying to drum up support and, again, make sure that people turnout for a runoff election.

The other Democrat, Reverend Raphael Warnock, dropped more than $2 million on ad buys November 10th week alone. That's his second post- general election ad buy already.

And, look, the entire political world is looking at the state of Georgia, not just because it could potentially control the Senate with those two runoff races but also, well, the race for president hasn't technically been called in this state yet. And the Trump campaign is trying to make this a flashpoint in its unsupported claims of voter fraud or malfeasance at this point, including both of the Republican senators turning against the Republican secretary of state calling for his resignation, offering zero evidence for their claims of potential voter fraud.

Now, today, this afternoon, the secretary of state's office is going through a process they were already going to do, Jim. It's announcing the statewide audits of the election.

[10:30:00]

Of course, these counties are preparing, the Trump campaign has said that they're going to ask for a recount, Jim.