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Biden Blocked from State Department Support; Obama's New Book; Death Rate Drops as Treatments Improve. Aired 9:30-10a

Aired November 12, 2020 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:31:13]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: We are following sad breaking news out of Egypt. Five Americans have been killed, military members, in a helicopter crash. It just happened this morning. We're told one American service member did survive.

The helicopter was part of a peacekeeping force known as a multi- national force and observers, part of the peace agreement. They oversee the peace agreement reached between Egypt and Israel as part of the Camp David Accords of 1978.

A U.S. official could not say if the chopper that crashed was an American one or not. We're working on more details.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, President-elect Joe Biden will be making calls to world leaders today despite President Trump's denial of the facts of the election results. But Biden's team is operating without the logistical support of the State Department. Traditionally, the State Department supports all communications for the president- elect, as they did with President-elect Trump four years ago, but the Trump administration is blocking his access to those and other resources.

Joining me now to discuss a whole lot of stuff, Ambassador Richard Haass. He was president of the Council on Foreign Relations. He was director of policy planning at the State Department under George W. Bush.

Ambassador, always good to have you on.

RICHARD HAASS, PRESIDENT, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Good morning.

Just to be clear, I still am president of the Council on Foreign Relations.

SCIUTTO: Did I say "was"? I did not mean to take that job away from you. I never would do that.

HAASS: Unless you know something I don't. SCIUTTO: No secret messages.

All right, I want to start, if I can, on a host of changes at the senior level of the Defense Department that the president is carrying out, quite unprecedented during a transition period. There are concerns that he is setting up for some consequential moves during the transition from withdrawal of U.S. forces, fast track from Afghanistan, Syria, Europe, declassifying Russian intel, even the possibility of military action against Iran.

I wonder, do you take any of those potential moves seriously?

HAASS: Jim, I take all of them seriously. If we've only learned one thing over the last four years is not to assume anything, not to dismiss anything. And if you're getting rid of these people at the Pentagon who are not household names, you're putting people in their place who are not household names, it can't be for political effect. This is -- this is fundamentally different than the sort of resistance to accepting the election result.

So I've got to assume there's some policy reason where he wants the civilian side of the Pentagon to accept certain direction for him and maybe to give certain orders to the military side of the Pentagon.

So it could be any of the things you're talking about, fast tracking troop withdrawals, providing some kind of a gift to Erdogan in Turkey or Putin in Russia, possibly doing something with Israel against Iran, conceivably even a potential use of American military forces domestically for purposes of promoting internal security. I don't know any of those for a fact. I just can't connect the dots in a way though that says this has no policy significance.

SCIUTTO: Yes, I mean, you note rightly that withdrawing all forces from Syria would be a gift to Russia and Iran, frankly. They would quickly fill those spaces there.

But the possibility of military action against Iran, not outlandish in your view?

HAASS: Not outlandish. Iran has been gradually breaking out of the nuclear constraints of the JCPOA, the nuclear deal. Israel's clearly uncomfortable with it, so are we, and a military action against Iran would not involve ground troops, it would obviously involve some combination of aircraft and missiles. Again, I'm not saying it's going to happen, I just can't sit here and confidently tell you it can't.

SCIUTTO: Are these moves -- any of these moves ones that President- elect Biden can reverse easily upon taking office January 20th?

[09:35:00]

For instance, if you withdraw all the troops from Afghanistan or Syria, how quickly, conceivably, could a new president get them back in, or does it make is very difficult to do that?

HAASS: Well, the good news is you can't withdraw troops on a dime. It's not like flicking a switch. So it takes some time for troops and equipment and all that. And particularly in places like Germany or South Korea, if the president wanted to withdraw troops, easily President-elect Biden could announce that he will reverse it and then actually reverse it.

The danger is, it leaves a lingering question mark. If it could happen once, it could happen again, not under a President Biden, but conceivably under some future president.

What it does it really undermines America's reputation, which is a necessary reputation for reliability and predictability. That's an essential if you're going to be a major power.

SCIUTTO: I mean that's a concern on other issues, is it not. For instance, a new President Biden might say we are committed to NATO, right, but I imagine NATO allies would be concerned, well, what happens in four years?

HAASS: Absolutely. I think what's happened over the last four years is that it's been a disruptive presidency and what essentially is the outlines of American foreign policy that were essentially consistent from Harry Truman in the Post-World War II moment, all the way through Barack Obama, we've now had something very different. And I don't think any American ally can dismiss the possibility again that maybe Donald Trump is not a long-term aberration, but Trumpism, American populism, American isolationism, which, by the way, was the norm before World War II --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HAASS: Quite possibly this will be -- it will be making a comeback.

SCIUTTO: Remarkable prospect.

Ambassador Richard Haass, thanks so much.

HAASS: Thank you. Thank you, Jim.

HARLOW: All right, ahead for us, why did President Obama choose Joe Biden to be his running mate? We have new details this morning from President Obama's new memoire "A Promised Land." You'll hear them, next.

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[09:41:20]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

As President-elect Biden prepares to lead a sadly divided nation, his former boss, President Obama, says in his new memoire that his election in 2008 may have exposed and fueled bitterness and anxiety within the Republican Party.

HARLOW: He writes in "A Promised Land," the title of a new book, quote, it was as if my very presence in the White House had triggered a deep-seated panic, a sense that the natural order had been disrupted. Which is exactly what Donald Trump understood when he started peddling assertions that I had not been born in the United States and was, thus, an illegal -- illegitimate, i should say, president. For millions of Americans spooked by a black man in the White House, he promised an elixir for their racial anxiety.

With us now, CNN's senior correspondent Jeff Zeleny.

Good morning, Jeff.

There's a lot in here.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

There certainly is. And we have never heard former President Obama confront, you know, really the rise of President Trump through his eyes of his presidency. So it's extraordinary to hear those words from him in the first volume of the book.

But he's also talking about so much more, including Joe Biden. The timing of this, of course, so interesting. But he does write about his former running mate and his working relationship with him.

Let's take a look at some of the passages directly about Joe Biden. He says this, I like the fact that Joe would be more than ready to serve as president if something happened to me and that it might reassure those who still worried I was too young. What mattered most, though, was what my gut told me, that Joe was decent, honest and loyal. I believe that he cared about ordinary people and that when things got tough I could trust him. I wouldn't be disappointed.

So certainly interesting words there about Joe Biden, who, of course, is on the cusp of becoming the next president.

SCIUTTO: All right, of course, still in the midst of a difficult, to say the least, transition.

Obama also wrote about his own transition to power. What did he say about the former president, George W. Bush, and how he welcomed him?

ZELENY: He did, Jim. And the timing of this is so interesting because the contrast could not be more stark. Just 12 years ago. But Mr. Obama does write this about George W. Bush.

He said, whether it was because of the respect for the institution, because of lessons learned from his father, bad memories of his own transition or just basic decency, President Bush would end up doing all he could to make the 11 weeks between my election and his departure go smoothly. I promised myself that when the time came I would treat my successor the same way.

And he also talks in interesting terms about riding in the limousine for the first team, "The Beast" as it's called, from the White House to Capitol Hill, next to George W. Bush, as signs were outside their window saying indict him and war criminal and Mr. Obama says this about George W. Bush. He said, to protest a man in the final hour of his presidency seemed

graceless and unnecessary. More generally, I was troubled by what these last minute protests said about the divisions that were churning across the country and the weakening of whatever boundaries of decorum had once regulated politics.

So just imagine those two men, the 43rd president and the 44th president, sitting side-by-side in the limousine going up Pennsylvania Avenue and Constitution Avenue seeing those signs. Extraordinary when you think of the weight of those words.

HARLOW: Especially, as Jim said, right now, in this moment.

ZELENY: Right.

HARLOW: One of the parts, Jeff, of the former first lady, Michelle Obama's book, "Becoming," that struck me the most was her candor about their marriage, their marriage in the years when their children were really young and their marriage in the White House and sort of what they did, like every couple does in America, to work on that marriage.

[09:45:02]

What does he say about marriage to the former first lady?

ZELENY: Right.

We've certainly heard Michelle Obama talk about this much more than Barack Obama. And, look, if you think back to 15 years ago, she didn't want him to run for the Senate necessarily and didn't want him to run for president because of the toll it would take on their young family. Well, he does write, in pretty open terms about this, including this passage about Michelle directly.

He said, whether it was my around the clock absorption with work or the way politics exposed our family to scrutiny and attacks, or the tendency of even friends and family members to treat her role as secondary in importance. He goes on to say, there were nights lying next to Michelle in the dark I'd think about those days when everything between us felt lighter, when her smile was more constant and our love less encumbered and my heart would suddenly tighten at the thought that those days might not return.

So certainly strong and personal words from the former president. And he also goes on to write in the preface of this book, he describes the hours after they were leaving the presidency, flying from Washington to California, where they spent some time, and he said they learned to redevelop their relationship and redevelop their friendship. So certainly this is something that, you know, only a few people, you know, can know what this is like. But this is a deeply inside look at what the presidency was like, but also what happened for their family.

He goes on to talk about his smoking habit, how he quit that, you know, how he hired Hillary Clinton, how he picked Bob Gates. So so many interesting details in this book which is out next Tuesday.

Jim and Poppy.

SCIUTTO: Interesting read for sure. Jeff Zeleny, thanks very much.

ZELENY: Sure.

SCIUTTO: Well, coronavirus infections have surged to record levels across this country over the past several weeks. Deaths, though, have not increased to the levels we saw in the spring. Why doctors feel that may be a glimmer of hope. We're going to discuss it, next.

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[09:51:24]

SCIUTTO: Well, as predicted, we're in the midst of a brutal second wave. Coronavirus hospitalizations surging to record levels as the U.S. reports the most cases in a single day since the beginning of the pandemic. At least 18,093 coronavirus deaths were reported nationwide yesterday alone. The highest number of deaths in a single day since early May.

HARLOW: That's right. And still the nationwide death rate is way down. It has dropped significantly since the beginning of the spring. Why?

Our chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta explains.

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DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): New York City, the epicenter of the pandemic this spring.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Code 99. Code 99.

DR. ROBERT FORONJY, CHIEF OF PULMONARY AND CLINICAL CARE, SUNY DOWNSTATE: Code 99 could means someone that still has a pulse, a blood pressure, but is struggling to breathe.

GUPTA: Dr. Robert Foronjy was in the thick of it in March with very few tools at that time to manage a new respiratory disease.

FORONJY: Imagine trying to treat severe bacterial pneumonia without antibiotics. We're basically relying on a machine and the patient's own immune system to recover.

GUPTA: Other area hospitals also overwhelmed, like Morristown Medical in New Jersey, where Dr. Lewis Rubinson works.

DR. LEWIS RUBINSON, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, MORRISTOWN MEDICAL CENTER: And our numbers went up pretty dramatically, pretty quickly. We ultimately had 20 units with COVID patients. Our maximum census was over 300 patients concurrently.

GUPTA: One study of a New York City health system found that in March 25.6 percent of hospitalized COVID-19 patients would end up dying. Imagine that, one in four.

VJ SMITH, COVID-19 PATIENT: This is a terrible -- a very terrible virus. It is killing my people.

GUPTA: But by June, that mortality rate had dropped by more than two- thirds to 7.6 percent.

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D), NEW YORK CITY: The number of deaths has not been increasing markedly.

GUPTA: And it's not just New York. In England, the fatality rate was around 6 percent in June and by mid-August it was 1.5 percent.

One thing has become clear, if someone is infected with the novel coronavirus now, they are more likely to survive than back in the spring.

But why? After all, the virus itself hasn't changed, but it turns out we have.

For starters, about 75 percent of the people hospitalized were over the age of 50 back in March. Almost 40 percent had at least one underlying condition.

RUBINSON: We were seeing, as many centers were seeing, more mature patients being impacted and having severe disease.

GUPTA: Today, more than half of all newly infected people are under the age of 50 and they are significantly less likely to get sick. But even if patients do end up in the hospital, their care is now very different. We have an expanded tool kit, drugs like Remdesivir and monoclonal antibodies to stop the virus from replicating, the steroid dexamethasone, we are using blood thinners to help reduce clotting associated with COVID-19.

GUPTA (on camera): You know, there was a lot of discussion about ventilators, Doctor, in the beginning. And patients who went on ventilators at one point the mortality rate for them was approaching 50 percent. What was going on there?

RUBINSON: Well, for someone who's breathing is so bad that we can't get enough oxygen in them or carbon dioxide out, the ventilator helps but it comes at potential costs. The pressures and the strategies that we're using mechanical ventilation can actually worsen some lung disease.

[09:55:07]

GUPTA (voice over): Take a look here. With COVID-19 the lungs can quickly fill up with mucous, making it difficult to take in oxygen. Also, damaged lung tissue can sit next to healthy tissue. And if too much oxygen is forced on to the healthy tissue, it can cause leaks and swelling and other damage. It's why doctors started to wait longer to move patients to ventilators, utilizing strategies like having patients breathe on their stomachs, known as proning, and just monitoring patients with low oxygen levels with as few interventions as possible.

RUBINSON: We're driving on the road that we're paving at the same time with COVID.

GUPTA: Evolving standards of care to match are evolving understanding of this disease.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

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HARLOW: Wow, so much in there I did not know about.

Sanjay, thank you for that reporting.

Ahead for us, the State Department, right now, is holding messages from world leaders back from President-elect Biden as President Trump refuses to concede. What are the risks here? We'll speak to the former director of the CIA and the NSA, ahead.

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