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Biden COVID Adviser: 4-6 Week Lockdown in U.S. Could Slow COVID Crisis; War Between Trump, FOX & Conservative Media Begins; Dr. Victoria Smith, a Volunteer in Pfizer's Vaccine Trial, Discusses the Treatment. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired November 12, 2020 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: The United States is in crisis right now. And 1,893 Americans lost their lives to the coronavirus yesterday, bringing the pandemic death toll in this country to nearly 242,000.

And the numbers are not slowing down. The U.S. is continuing to set records for daily cases and hospitalizations.

Right now, more than 65,000 people are hospitalized with COVID. Eighteen states reported record-high hospitalizations in the last 24 hours. And some states are warning their hospitals are nearly capacity.

In Wisconsin, hospital bed capacity is at 90 percent. And the Mayo Clinic Health System says its hospitals in northern Wisconsin are full to capacity.

The White House Coronavirus Task Force has singled out the state, saying, quote, "More comprehensive mitigation strategy is needed there."

But the shortage does not stop at beds. Some hospitals are running out of health care workers.

In Idaho, doctors are being forced to ration care. One doctor telling CNN they've shut down the pediatric floor to conserve beds and staff for COVID patients. And elective procedures that required overnight staff have been cancelled.

Meantime, President-Elect Joe Biden will take office in the midst of this crisis and the pandemic could define his presidency.

A member of his COVID advisory board is now warning it might be time for another shutdown.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, MEMBER, BIDEN'S COVID-19 ADVISORY BOARD: We could pay for a package right now to cover all of the wages, lost wages for individual workers, losses for small companies to medium- size companies, cities, states, county governments. We can do all that.

[13:35:04]

If we did that, then we could lockdown for four to six weeks. If we did that, we could drive the numbers down like they've done in Asia, like they did in New Zealand and Australia.

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BROWN: And joining me now is Dr. Celine Gounder, another member of Biden's COVID Advisory Board. She's an epidemiologist and infectious disease specialist.

Dr. Gounder, thank you for coming on.

Let's talk about the idea of shutdown. As you know, that's something people might hear, might freak them out, the idea of another shutdown. Oh, my gosh, what's going to happen?

Is that what you think the U.S. needs to get some control of the pandemic?

DR. CELINE GOUNDER, MEMBER, BIDEN'S COVID-19 ADVISORY BOARD: Pam, I do not like the word "shutdown" or "lockdown." I think it is a little misleading.

We have learned a lot in the last several months in terms of how to control the virus.

I think the problem with those terms is it implies binary decision, an on-or-off switch. I think about this more as a dimmer switch, a dial that you dial up or dial down.

We certainly do have to tighten up on certain things, for example, indoor dining at restaurants, being indoors in bars, going to gyms, nail salons. Those are all areas we know are very high risk for transmission.

And we should be doubling down efforts to make sure everyone wears a mask consistently. We socially distance. We do as much outdoors as possible. We get tested.

And finally, if a contract tracer reaches out, that you work with them to figure out where transition is occurring and how we can curb it.

BROWN: Since you don't like that phrase, would you encourage your fellow task force member to not use that wording?

GOUNDER: I think, with all due respect to Dr. Osterholm, that doesn't necessarily represent the entire advisory reboard or what the Biden/Harris transition team is planning to do. I think you have to adjust your interventions based on the local

epidemiology. Perhaps there are places you need to be more draconian but I don't think that's a national policy.

BROWN: Let's talk about the national aspect of this and how it is being dealt with at the state level.

From what I can tell, what makes this pandemic in the U.S. different from how we've seen it play out in other countries is it has basically been sustained.

We haven't seen a big dip and then a second wave. It has basically been consistent from the beginning. And we have seen little dips but not enough.

In large part, some of the doctors I have spoken to think it is because states have their own way of dealing with this. And you'll see it go down in one state, and then it will pop up in another part of the country.

The Trump administration clearly has not enacted a national strategy. Is that something that you see a Biden administration doing to help get a better grip on the pandemic?

GOUNDER: I do think you're going to see a much stronger national strategy.

I think you're going to see the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention at the center of that, at the center of developing that guidance, at the center of communicating that guidance.

I think, unfortunately, this has been a pandemic that's falling dominoes, dominoes falling from big cities like New York, then onto suburbs, then onto rural areas.

There really hasn't been anything standing in the way of the dominoes falling because we haven't had a national strategy.

BROWN: Right. Because if it tampers down in one state, it moves to another state, it seems like we're seeing, because it knows no bounds, it crosses borders. That is what we're seeing.

What else would you advice President-Elect Biden to do differently than what is happening right or not being done now, I should say?

GOUNDER: Other major priorities will be massively scaling up testing. That's something that's really been discouraged by the current administration. And it is very difficult to control something that you can't even see.

What we now know and learned in the last several months is many of these infections are asymptomatic. So you're really just seeing the tip of the iceberg when you talk about people in the hospitals.

So it is difficult to control transmission when you can't see the entire picture. And you can only do that with massively scaling up testing.

BROWN: Let's talk about testing. Because Admiral Giroir, who oversees it has argued -- and I've interviewed him -- that they're doing everything they can on testing. It is simply not realistic to do millions of tests a day some people are suggesting or recommending to control this virus.

What would you do to ramp up testing that this administration is not doing because he claims they're doing everything possible?

GOUNDER: Well, we need to look at different regulatory pathways for tests that are for surveillance.

So testing all comers, as opposed to tests appropriate for use in the hospital or doctor offices for someone who has symptoms.

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And the characteristics of each of the tests are not the same. So there needs to be a separate approval process at the FDA for each of those.

And there are some of these cheap tests that are sort of like home urine pregnancy tests that could potentially serve this need, this gap for home-based testing for COVID, a rapid, cheap testing for COVID that could be scaled up.

BROWN: Quickly, would the Defense Production Act factor into ramping up testing?

GOUNDER: I think the Defense Production Act will be critical. It will probably be one of the very first executive orders that the president- elect enacts.

And it is really going to focus on, how do we scale up production of personal protective equipment, so masks and gowns and gloves and so on for health care workers and other first responders.

And also ramp up production of critical things like tests and related supplies.

BROWN: Doctor Celine Gounder, a really important conversation. Thank you so much.

GOUNDER: My pleasure.

BROWN: Despite Americans suffering in a pandemic, the president's concentration today seems to be focused on FOX News. Why he is signaling the start of war with the channel.

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BROWN: Instead of publicly focusing on the pandemic or stimulus or the presidential transition, today President Trump is taking on FOX News. As you see here, retweeting days-old replies, bashing the channel, and

suggesting that FOX is to blame for his defeat.

Joining me now, CNN chief medica correspondent, Brian Stelter, anchor of "RELIABLE SOURCES."

Brian, this country is in a crisis now, looking at the coronavirus alone.

Why is the president doing this? Why is he focused on FOX in the midst of what this country is going through right now?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT & CNN HOST, "RELIABLE SOURCES": He is tweeting more about FOX News than about COVID.

It shows his five stages of grief. And it signals he is still in the anger phase. He is angry at FOX.

And so are some of FOX's loyal viewers. They're angry FOX called Arizona for Biden early on. They're angry FOX has rightly identified Biden as the president-elect.

And so Trump and some of his fans are lashing out on social media.

Pamela, this has always been a marriage of convenience between Rupert Murdoch and Donald Trump. It's always been a marriage of convenience.

Certainly, both sides are saying hurtful words now, but it is still a marriage. Trump may be threatening to see other people, but it is still a marriage.

Trump is promoting Sean Hannity, sharing clips that he likes on FOX.

It is complicated. And divorce could be down the road, but not yet.

BROWN: Right. He seems to like the opinion hosts --

STELTER: Yes.

BROWN: -- like Sean Hannity more than the actual straightforward news journalists.

You're tracking other right-wing media outlets. What patterns are you seeing among voters?

STELTER: When I refer to a divorce, that's because there are other suitors out there.

There are these smaller right-wing channels, like "Newsmax" and "One America News," that are further to the right than FOX News. And Trump is promoting those channels right now.

"Newsmax" has seen an extraordinary surge in viewership. Still a lot lower than CNN or FOX. But this is a channel that had 50,000 viewers before the election. Now sometimes a half million viewers. There's clearly an audience for a channel that's so far right that

they deny Biden is the president-elect, that they promote voter fraud innuendo all day long. So some FOX fans are going off to other channels instead.

It is possible, after Inauguration Day, that Trump may do the same, whether he wants to launch a streaming service, host a radio show or go off to a channel like "Newsmax."

There continues to be a lot of chatter about what his future media platform might be. Could he end up with a show on FOX News? It is not out of the realm of possibility.

But there are definitely other options for the outgoing president. That's something to really keep an eye on.

I think, big picture, Pamela, here is the concerning trend line here. People are going more and more into their own echo chambers, more into their own bubbles --

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STELTER: -- especially Trump voters.

There's this new social media app, called Parler, getting a lot of attention. Because conservatives are leaving, saying they're leaving Twitter and Facebook, going off to Parler because they believe Parler is a safer space for them.

What we're seeing is even more of a bunker mentality in right-wing media. Ultimately, that's not good for the country.

BROWN: No, it is not good. It is a threat to democracy that these people are in echo chambers and they're getting fed a diet of lies essentially.

Brian Stelter

STELTER: Lies, that's what it is. Thanks.

BROWN: Yes.

Brian Stelter, thank you so much.

[13:49:18]

Well, a coronavirus vaccine could be on the verge of becoming reality. Up next, I'll talk to a doctor who signed up for the experimental drug. Her insight on the treatment ahead.

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BROWN: Well, the hope for a coronavirus vaccine may be one step closer to becoming a reality.

Next week, Pfizer will have the necessary data on its drug trial participants to meet FDA requirements. That will allow the company to apply for an emergency use authorization.

Family physician, Dr. Victoria Smith, is a volunteer in the Pfizer drug trial. She joins me now.

Thanks so much for coming on.

I just think it is so interesting to talk to someone like you, who has been participating in these trials.

First off, tell us why you decided to do so.

DR. VICTORIA SMITH, FAMILY PHYSICIAN & VOLUNTEER IN PFIZER VACCINE DRUG TRIAL: Well, thank you so much for having me.

There were a lot of reasons why I wanted to be involved. As a physician, I was really seeing how this pandemic was really ravaging my patients and my community.

As you know, I'm in the New Orleans area. We were one of the hot spots in March. So I was seeing patients die from this.

And I just felt like I wanted to be part of a cure or something to try to prevent this from going forward, as opposed to feeling like the victim that I was feeling, that I think all of us feel in the face of this pandemic.

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BROWN: Right. Just I'm sure, from your perspective, you're seeing how it impacts the minority community. And how did that affect you personally?

SMITH: Well, that was also part of my driving force. Many of my patients are African-American, Latino, you know, people of color. Those were some of the patients that I was seeing die and developing this condition.

So I wanted to also be a model because I know that many people of color and African-Americans can have hesitation and concerns in relationship to science and clinical research.

So I felt comfortable in taking part in this, to also be a model to people, people of color and all people to try to get involved in the fight against this pandemic.

BROWN: Let's talk about those numbers. I was going to ask you about the growing skepticism about the vaccine, particularly among minorities.

This nationwide poll conducted by the Kaiser Family Foundation found that half of African-Americans would, quote, "probability or definitely decline a vaccine."

What is your message to those who have reservations about taking a vaccine?

SMITH: And I hear it probably every day. My patients are aware that I'm part of the trial.

So I really try to talk to them about the process of the research, how it is safe, how there's not -- I know a lot of people feel like, oh, this was rushed. But I don't really feel like that's been the case.

So I've just been able to try to share my own experience of the vaccine, to really encourage all of my patience to consider receiving the vaccine once it's available.

BROWN: Quickly, you don't know if you had the placebo or vaccine. But you didn't have any serious side effects, I'm assuming, right?

SMITH: I do not. I do think I'm in the actual vaccine arm because I did have some flu-y feelings after each of the two injections and a little arm soreness. I don't think a placebo could make me feel like that.

BROWN: Interesting.

All right. Dr. Victoria Smith, thank you for your time and for coming on and for being a volunteer --

SMITH: Thank you.

BROWN: -- for this important trial.

SMITH: Thank you for having me.

BROWN: We have more on our breaking news. As the president continuing to deny he lost the election, his support among Republicans is cracking. Hear what GOP Senators are telling him to do.

Plus, we have new reporting on the president's thinking about pardons, including one for himself.

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