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Biden Names White House Chief of Staff; COVID-19 Vaccine Distribution Timeline; Some Republican Lawmakers Starting to Accept Election Results?. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired November 12, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:01]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: All right, Dana Bash, thanks for coming on with that reporting.

And our special coverage continues now with Brooke Baldwin.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Hi there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN. Thank you so much for being with me.

While President Trump and his allies refused to accept the outcome of this election, we are starting to see some cracks forming among prominent Republicans up on Capitol Hill.

Just today, Senator Lindsey Graham told CNN that Joe Biden, president- elect Joe Biden, should get intelligence briefing starting now. Also, you have Ohio Republican Rob Portman. He's making similar statements.

All this is happening as president-elect Biden moves forward with his transition plans, despite facing repeated roadblocks from the current administration. Biden is making his first major appointment, when he named his longtime adviser Ron Klain as his White House chief of staff. Klain is expected to be a key figure in Biden's response to the coronavirus pandemic, having previously served as President Obama's Ebola czar back in 2014.

And, of course, that experience will be critical, as the health crisis in this country continues to get worse every day. The numbers are staggering, with the U.S. setting another record of daily cases on Wednesday, more than 144,000.

Hospitalizations are also at the highest level since the pandemic began, with 18 states reporting record numbers. But, even as this virus ravages our country, President Trump is missing in action, no national plan, no reassuring words, just more false claims on Twitter about voter fraud.

But let's start with those cracks forming among congressional Republicans.

CNN's Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill with that story. And so, Manu, what are you hearing from all these Republicans?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's clear, Brooke, that Republicans are willing to give the president some time to mount these legal challenges, but they're not willing to give him that much time, particularly if these legal challenges fall flat or if they don't change the election results that show Joe Biden as the clear winner of the presidency.

Republicans are telling me very clearly that they believe this will be over soon, and, if it's not, when the president loses in court, that he should concede. And, of course, the president has not said that so far, but Republicans, from his closest allies on down, believe this is where this is going.

And a number of them are making clear that they believe the president should at least allow for these classified briefings to take place, allow Joe Biden to have them, so he's ready come January 20. That includes even some of his closest allies, like Lindsey Graham, Chuck Grassley, John Thune, some of the three top Republicans, who all indicated to me today that, yes, Joe Biden should have those national security briefings.

Others also believe that the transition process should officially start. The General Services Administration has not signed off on key paperwork that would allow funds to be released, so the official transition process could take place.

Some Republicans believe that it should take place, including Kevin Cramer of North Dakota, one of the president's closest allies, told me, yes, that should also happen. And some also, Brooke, are saying that the president -- that Joe Biden is in fact the president-elect.

Most Republicans have not yet agreed that he's president-elect or have not said so publicly. One Republican, Shelley Moore Capito, who's a part of Republican leadership, told me, sure, yes, he is the president-elect. They said that they will let his legal chances play out.

But, as one top Republican senator, John Barrasso, who's in the Republican leadership, told me, it's a -- quote -- "very narrow road" for the president to succeed.

So, you're seeing what the president's -- the Republicans here see the writing on the wall, recognize the president's legal challenges have very little chance of success. And they hope the president will ultimately agree to step aside if the election results don't turn out -- the court challenges don't turn out the way he expects.

But, of course, Brooke, if he doesn't, what will they do then? That's still a big question here.

BALDWIN: Sure. And then, obviously, the story is quite different down the road from you at the White House.

Manu, thank you so much. Let's go to the White House and get the latest from the Trump

administration.

Kaitlan Collins is up live.

And so, Kaitlan, does the president still see some path forward here, or is reality sinking in?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Reality has set in with the president.

The question right now for his advisers is, how long does he keep this up, this claim of a fraudulent election, on these baseless allegations?

And sources believe it could be days. Some people said it could be weeks, until they start certifying these results in states, waiting for that recount in Georgia, of course, that's now happening, though it's not expected for the president to overcome the margin there.

And so those are the big questions that are facing the White House, because the president does know that he's lost this race. But see how it's affecting people on Capitol Hill, as Manu Raju just laid out, and you're starting to see Republicans come out and break with what the president has said and how this administration has operated.

So, that's really the question behind the scenes, Brooke. What we do know from sources is that they expect, when the president does finally acknowledge reality and what has happened here, they expect him to tweet -- to tease a run in 2024.

[15:05:08]

Even if it's not a final decision yet, they believe he's going to heavily imply that one is going to happen. And, of course, you can imagine the uncomfortable scenario that is going to put people like the vice president, the secretary of state, the former U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley, people who have all been said to be discussing their own possible run in 2024, and because, of course, those are the people who would rely on the support of the president.

So, basically, by the president dragging this out, it's putting his advisers in a tough position, as well as Republicans on Capitol Hill who are waiting for the president to make that call, so they can move on and embrace the Biden administration and look forward to this run- off in Georgia that's going to determine who controls the Senate.

BALDWIN: Yes, certainly, though, a curveball for those Republicans who'd like to put their hats in the ring in four years.

You have been reporting on a number of coronavirus cases, not the least the president himself there at the White House. Someone now has tested positive for COVID? Who is it?

COLLINS: Another person in the president's orbit. This is Corey Lewandowski, who, of course, was on the president's campaign in 2016, has been a very public adviser in this race and certainly in the last few weeks.

He is now, Brooke, the seventh person tied to that indoor party they held a little over a week ago, last Tuesday on election night, where people were tested beforehand, but very few people were wearing a mask. Nobody was social distancing. He's the seventh person now tied to that party that has tested positive for coronavirus, and he is at home self-isolating -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Kaitlan, thank you.

To Delaware we go for the latest developments from the Biden team.

CNN's Arlette Saenz is live at Rehoboth Beach, where the president- elect has a vacation home.

And so, Arlette, we know we have heard from the president-elect. He says he's moving full steam ahead with the transition. He's now named his chief of staff, a huge move forward. Tell us more about why he chose Ron Klain.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, Brooke, president-elect Joe Biden is making it clear he is pushing forward with his transition plans, even as the Trump administration has tried to president some roadblocks.

And he's doing so by making his first major decision. And that is naming his chief of staff and longtime adviser named Ron Klain. Biden and Klain have an incredibly long history together, as Klain worked with him in the Senate decades ago, and even served as his chief of staff in the White House when Biden was vice president.

Now, Klain also led the Obama administration's response to the Ebola crisis, which could make him critical in a moment like this, when the country is still battling the coronavirus. And Biden has made it clear that one of his top priorities is to tackle that crisis.

And Klain's appointment has been welcomed across the Democratic Party. You have seen Senator Elizabeth Warren and Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez both praising Klain in recent days, as this West Wing -- West Wing leadership is starting to pan out.

We have also learned that Biden today spoke with congressional leaders. He held a call with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, where they talked about the coronavirus and even the possibility of -- during the lame-duck of a bipartisan bill when it comes to COVID-19.

And Biden now just a short while ago arrived here in Rehoboth, Delaware, a beach town where he has a home with his wife, Jill Biden, and he's going to continue meeting with his transition advisers.

BALDWIN: Arlette, thank you very much.

And let's bring in someone who knows Ron Klain well, CNN senior political commentator David Axelrod. He served as senior adviser to President Obama. So, David, nice to talk to you, to have you on. And we will get to Ron

in just a second.

But I want to start with the Republican Party. To hear that some Republican senators are now acknowledging Joe Biden should have access to these classified briefings, but they aren't quite going far enough to call for Trump to concede this race, is this just crafty semantics?

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No.

Well, first of all, I think there are practical implications. There are -- there is meaning to a lack of a transition. There is meaning to a president incoming who is not getting the intelligence briefings. They recognize that.

It's irresponsible to deprive him of that, and I'm glad to see some of them are stepping up and saying so.

But, look, Brooke, this is a hostage drama, OK? The jig is up. The people have spoken. The president needs to come out of the White House and leave on January 20. And there should be an orderly transition.

I think Republicans are trying very hard not to antagonize the president, not to antagonize his base, to allow the process to run, to have the result certified, and then slowly ease him into the position of exiting president.

But, in the interim, it's having an impact, because you have seen these polls, 70 percent of Republicans saying they didn't think this was a free and fair election. And that's the consequences of what the president's been saying and the silence on the part of other Republicans.

[15:10:09]

BALDWIN: You are also, though, seeing other polls where more constituents are coming out, even though many 72 million voted for Trump, saying, all right, we believe this was a free and fair election. Like, let's roll on.

AXELROD: Yes.

BALDWIN: To add to all of this, more than half of all the counties in Arizona, David, have conducted post-election audits.

They have found no discrepancies. Is it time to just call it?

AXELROD: Well, look, you mean it call it nationally, Arizona?

BALDWIN: Both. Really -- really, Arizona.

AXELROD: Yes, I don't -- I think, at the end of the day, Joe Biden's one Arizona that will be clear. If people want to wait until every last vote is counted, that's fine. It doesn't make a difference in the outcome of the national election. But we should take a step back. Despite all the dust that the

president and some of his supporters have kicked up, what is really evident is that, in the midst of a pandemic, in the midst of the most difficult and trying circumstances perhaps ever, we had a record turnout, and virtually no, relative to any kind of meaningful number, cases of fraud.

The cases of fraud have been de minimis. "New York Times" surveyed every election authority in America, Republican and Democrat.

BALDWIN: Right.

AXELROD: They all agreed on it. That's a triumph for this country. And we ought to embrace that and accept it.

BALDWIN: What do you think, just quickly off of Kaitlan's reporting, Trump 2024? Do you think this is sort of like a maybe, all right, eventually I'll acknowledge this, and I'm going to move on, but stay tuned to the next episode in four years, or what?

AXELROD: Look, one thing is clear. Donald Trump is not going to leave the stage quietly.

He intends to be a player. And he has a big following in the Republican base. And he's going to take his act down the road, but he's not going anywhere. And by saying, yes, I may run in 2024, he's holding his place. And there are a lot of Republican officeholders who are going to be very careful about how they approach him because of that.

BALDWIN: I want to move on to Ron Klain, who you have known, who certainly the president-elect has known, has worked with for years and years.

Tell us a Ron Klain story, and why do you think he picked him?

AXELROD: Oh, look, Ron Klain is one of the most competent, strategic people that I have ever known or ever worked with.

He was the chief of staff for Vice President Biden when we took office when the vice president was assigned leadership of the Recovery Act. It was Ron who really organized that effort. And it was a flawless, flawless effort. He is very smart. He's very experienced, knows Washington very well. He's been around that town for decades in many different responsible positions.

And he knows the vice president, which is really important -- I should say the president-elect -- because the bond between the president and that chief of staff is very, very important. Joe Biden has trust in Ron Klain and his abilities, and that is going to be important for the government moving forward.

BALDWIN: Also, David, people are certainly wondering what other Cabinet positions. You had Senator Bernie Sanders tossing his hat in the ring.

Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: If he asks you to join the Cabinet as labor secretary, would you say yes?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): If I had a portfolio that allowed me to stand up and fight for working families, would I do it? Yes, I would.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: What are the chances of progressives, a la a Bernie Sanders, playing a big role in the Biden Cabinet?

AXELROD: Look, I think there's a lot of -- putting a Cabinet together as a puzzle. And there are a lot of pieces to fit.

One of them is, how do you signify to progressive elements of the Democratic Party that their voices are going to be heard? And there's no more prominent voice than that of Bernie Sanders. So, yes, it could happen.

The complication is, there's a Republican governor in Vermont. He apparently has agreed that, if Bernie Sanders were appointed, he'd appoint some independent who would caucus with the Democrats to replace him. Maybe that removes that obstacle. But it's certainly isn't beyond the realm of possibility.

One thing, Brooke, if I could just go back for a second, I should mention -- and Arlette mentioned it -- Ron Klain's experience on the Ebola -- running the Ebola effort on the part of the Obama administration--

BALDWIN: Yes.

AXELROD: -- very relevant here.

There's no bigger issue that Biden's going to face the day he walks in the door than this continuing siege of the coronavirus, even as the monumental task of distributing the vaccine will be at hand. And Ron has great experience in the area of dealing with pandemics.

So, that's one added bonus that I'm sure factored into the vice president -- to the president-elect's decision.

BALDWIN: President, president-elect, I know.

[15:15:00]

Long week last week, David Axelrod. I watched you every single day. Thank you so much for all of that.

AXELROD: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Thanks for hanging out with me today. Good to see you.

AXELROD: Great to see you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next here on CNN: State officials across the country taking tough new measures to fight the record-breaking spike in coronavirus cases. The question is, are we headed for more lockdowns?

And new CNN reporting today on President Trump's potential pardon claims, including, could he pardon himself?

You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

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BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Restrictions and closures are coming back in states, as the coronavirus continues to wreak havoc on this country. The United States topped 100,000 new cases for a ninth day in a row. That is a record number, added just yesterday over 144,000 new infections.

[15:20:07]

Hospitals, they are being overwhelmed, as their ICUs near capacity. Deaths are surging again. The country is enduring more than 1,000 COVID deaths each and every day.

And as CNN's Erica Hill reports, some experts warn it may be time for a nationwide lockdown.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ERICA HILL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): COVID patients in hospitals hitting another all-time high, new cases surging, nearly triple the daily rate we were seeing just a few weeks ago, 44 states reporting a rise over the past week, deaths also climbing.

DR. PETER HOTEZ, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: This is a humanitarian tragedy. You know, in my moments of despair, I say it's a slaughter. That's why I get so emotional talking about this, because these are lives that don't have to be lost.

HILL: Michael Osterholm, recently named as a COVID adviser to president-elect Biden, suggesting a nationwide lockdown with economic support may be necessary.

DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH: All that we're doing right now doesn't seem to be having much impact on this curve. I believe that small businesses, schools, health care centers all want to do the right thing. But it's very hard right now without financial support to do that.

HILL: Recent polling finds just 49 percent of Americans are very likely to stay home for a month if public health officials recommend it. So, what's the alternative?

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID DIRECTOR: The best opposite strategy to locking down is to intensify the public health measures.

HILL: That strategy increasing across the country, as the message becomes more urgent.

GOV. J.B. PRITZKER (D-IL): I want to remind everybody how deadly this virus is. It hasn't abated. It hasn't changed. It's out there.

HILL: Even areas that seemed to have the virus under control bringing back restrictions, New York and Connecticut limiting private gatherings to just 10 people, New Jersey forcing bars and restaurants to close indoor dining earlier starting today, and coordinating with New England to ban interstate youth sports through at least the end of the year.

GOV. PHIL MURPHY (D-NJ): Our numbers have gone up dramatically. Everything is going in the wrong direction.

HILL: Ohio's governor stepping up mask enforcement.

GOV. MIKE DEWINE (R-OH): My message to Ohioans is, it's not so much what I order or what the health department orders. It's really what you do in your individual life. You can control this.

HILL: Those personal decisions increasingly important, as Thanksgiving looms.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This Thanksgiving is going to suck a bit.

HILL: Yet embracing a rough holiday this year may be the key to having one next year.

DR. RICHARD BESSER, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: What we do right now across the nation, what we do in each state will determine who lives and dies this winter.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: And, Brooke, just another note on that idea of a national lockdown, which was floated, as you heard there, by Michael Osterholm.

The vice -- sorry -- the president-elect's team, president-elect Biden, the team pushing back, saying that this is not in line with Joe Biden's view, and noting that Michael Osterholm is, of course, one of several advisers on that coronavirus board helping the president- elect.

BALDWIN: I'm still back on that note in the piece. We have to do what we need to do this Thanksgiving, so that we have a Thanksgiving next year.

Erica Hill, thank you.

What about a vaccine? We are getting some brand-new information into CNN today about the strategy for distributing a potential coronavirus vaccine. And for that, let's go to CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth

Cohen. She just wrapped up an interview with the deputy chief of supply, production and distribution for Operation Warp Speed, retired Lieutenant General Paul Ostrowski.

Elizabeth, what did he tell you?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: He talked about how we're going to actually make this work, Brooke.

It looks like we do have an effective vaccine. The Pfizer vaccine is looking more than 90 percent effective. How do you get it across the United States? Usually, that wouldn't be such a big deal. I mean, we ship vaccine in this country every day.

But the Pfizer vaccine has to be kept at negative-103 degrees Fahrenheit. And doctor's offices and pharmacies and hospitals, they don't have freezers that go that low. So, Pfizer has basically invented something called a cryo-box that will be replenished, kept with dry ice, and replenished with dry ice.

And so I talked to Mr. Ostrowski about that. Let's take a listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. GEN. PAUL OSTROWSKI (RET.), OPERATION WARP SPEED: The UPS has really stood up the plate here, Elizabeth. They are going to provide dry ice shipments throughout all of America on demand from each of the particular locations where these particular cryo-boxes will be located.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: States, however, Brooke, they still have a lot of questions. Who is going to pay for all this dry ice? Who is going to procure this dry ice?

There's a shortage of it in some parts of the country? And doctor's offices and hospitals, while the CDC has said storage and handling this is, in the words of a CDC doctor, very complex, they will be asked to do things they have never done before, handle dry ice, procure it, open up the shippers, the cryo-boxes, only at certain -- for certain amounts of time, certain numbers of times a day.

It is going to be complex. State immunization managers I have talked to you, they said, you know what? We are going to work as hard as we can at this, but it will be very difficult -- Brooke.

[15:25:08]

BALDWIN: So, if dry ice is aplenty, and if all goes according to plan, Elizabeth, when do we expect that Americans will start getting the vaccine?

COHEN: So, what Dr. Fauci and others have said is that it is possible that, by the end of the year, sort of maybe around the Christmas holidays, maybe a little bit before, that the first Americans could be vaccinated with the COVID vaccine.

Now, it wouldn't be just anyone. It's going to be someone from a high priority group, elderly people, front-line medical workers. Other people who are not in high priority groups will likely have to wait until the spring -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Got it.

Elizabeth Cohen, thank you so much.

Coming up next here on CNN: how President Trump could issue a flurry of pardons on his way out the door, including potentially one for himself.

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