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Biden Wins Arizona and President Trump still Refusing to Concede; Obama Says He's Troubled GOP is "Humoring" Trump's Voter Fraud Claims; U.S. Sets New Record for Daily Cases and Hospitalizations. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired November 13, 2020 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[11:00:24]

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everybody. I'm John King in Washington. Thank you for sharing your day with us.

Joe Biden's presidential win looks even more impressive today. We now project him as the winner in Arizona. A state last carried by a Democrat for president a generation ago.

Even China now gets the clear and convincing math and congratulated the president-elect today and said it respects the choice of the American people. Get that, communist China respects your choice. But people paid with your tax dollars continue to ignore it.

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PETER NAVARRO, WHITE HOUSE TRADE ADVISER: We're moving forward here at the White House under the assumption that there will be a second Trump term. Our assumption is the second Trump term. We think that he won that election. And any speculation about what Joe Biden might do I think is moot at this point.

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KING: Trade Adviser Peter Navarro, you just saw him right there. Well, he is part of the circle of sycophants enabling the president's election denial. Trump's son, Don, Jr. and Eric are also in the fight on club.

Our reporters say Ivanka Trump and her husband Jared Kushner are torn, worried the president could damage his prospects for a 2024 comeback if he keeps making reckless claims of voter fraud. There are plenty of Trump tweets pushing those lies. But we have not heard directly from the president in more than a week.

He is described as angry and sulking and pushing advisers to find some way to keep him in power. But the math here is undeniable. Plus, a government election watchdog group is rebuking the president's fraud claims, quote, "There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes or was in any way compromised." There is a rare thing on the president's schedule today. A meeting to discuss the coronavirus crisis. The topic is "Operation Warp Speed." The vaccine effort even more critical now as the United States sets sad records for new cases for the third straight day.

You can see the trendline right there going almost straight up. More than 150,000 new cases on Thursday. There is also a record number of hospitalizations. Both are troubling trends as we head now into the holidays.

And now a new model points to an expected increase in deaths as well. look at those numbers. Putting the number at 200,000 more deaths by March 1st if new measures to slow the spread aren't implemented. This morning, Dr. Anthony Fauci says it is still possible he believes to stop that from happening.

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GAYLE KING, CBS HOST: People are letting their guards down.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: If we do the things that are simple public health measures, that soaring will level and start to come down. You add that to the help of a vaccine, we can turn this around. It is not futile.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: More on the coronavirus numbers in a moment. But as I noted on the top of the program, Joe Biden's victory looks even more impressive today. CNN overnight calling Arizona.

Let's pop it out right here. Arizona, for the former vice president, now president-elect. A little over 11,000 vote lead, that is narrow, 49.4 and 49.1. But significant because not since Bill Clinton back in 1996 as a Democrat carried Arizona for president. Also, more impressive when you take a look at the map now. Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Arizona, and likely Georgia.

Georgia's recounting votes but it is in Biden's camp right now. Look at this, when you go back in time. This is 2020. This is 2016. It would be five flips for Joe Biden if Georgia stays there. Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Arizona and Georgia, plus a congressional district right here in Eastern Nebraska. Those are big flips from this 2016 map into the 2020 map.

And if you go to another look, it actually reaffirms something quite else. As the president continues to insist there was fraud, continues to insist he can overturn the results of the election, it is just now beyond the path of ludicrous.

Here's where we are. And let's just assume Georgia stays with Biden. North Carolina which we haven't called yet, but let's assume that one goes Trump. He is leading there. So, if the president were to somehow - somehow overturn the results in a state, let's just say it were Pennsylvania, OK. Joe Biden is still president. Let's say it is Pennsylvania and Michigan, which is ludicrous, the Biden lead there is almost 150,000 votes, but even if he did those two, Joe Biden is still president.

Now, this leads a pretty much out of reach. Anyone who knows election law would tell you that. But let's just say in the states where the lead is more narrow. Let's just say somehow the president could take away the Biden win in Georgia, the Biden win in Arizona, the Biden win in Nevada. Three states. Guess what? Joe Biden is still president.

The math here is overwhelming. Joe Biden is the president-elect of the United States. And he will be present in 68 days. Barack Obama, the former president, in his interview with CBS says, the math clear and convincing. He wishes the American people would embrace it, even Trump supporters, but he says because of the way the president lies and the way the president gets help with those lies, a lot of Americans still don't buy it.

[11:05:01]

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BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When Donald Trump won, I stayed up until 2:30 a.m. in the morning and I then called Donald Trump to congratulate him. His margin of victory over Hillary Clinton wasn't greater than Joe Biden's margin over him, but if you are listening to some of the talk radio that Trump voters are listening to. If you're watching Fox News, if you're getting these tweets, those allegations are presented as facts. So, you've got millions of people out there who think, oh, yes, there must be cheating because the president said so.

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KING: Let's discuss this more right now with Jackie Kucinich, Washington bureau chief for "The Daily Beast" is with us. Alex Burns, national political correspondent for "The New York Times" as well.

So, Jackie, just you know, you heard President Obama there saying, president says things and his people believe it. And we know that. We know that from the last four years that they do. Just moments ago, Geraldo Rivera tweeting this. "Just had heartfelt phone call with friend @realDonaldTrump who said he's a "realist" who'll do the "right thing." But he wants to see "what states do in terms of certification." He sounded committed to fighting for every vote and if he loses, talking more about all he's accomplished."

Interesting there, the realist part who will do the right thing. Again, this president says one thing this hour and something else the next hour. But it is interesting that in a phone call with his friend, Geraldo Rivera, the president seems to be at least moving in the right direction.

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. But we're kind of past the point of doing the right thing. He already has lost. When you look at the count, when you look at - he has -- Joe Biden's lead is pretty much insurmountable at this point.

And listen, President Obama knows something about having Donald Trump delegitimize a presidency. He did it throughout President Obama's presidency. But the difference is, then he was you know a reality star and carnival barker. Now he will be the next president and there is a lot more responsibility that goes along with it because so many people voted for him even though they lost.

So, the actual right thing to do would be trying to sooth those folks and transition them into what is going to be a Biden presidency, which is not something they're going to like but it's something as all Americans. Everyone gets behind whoever the next president is traditionally. We're not seeing that here.

KING: And so, Alex Burns, maybe it will never end, maybe it will be the same in the post presidency and maybe in the Trump 2024 comeback campaign, but I just noted at the top, Geraldo Rivera tweets, he just got off the phone with the president. President says he's a realist. President says he will do the right thing.

Moments after that tweet from Geraldo Rivera, President Trump tweets, "For years the Dems have been preaching how unsafe and rigged our elections have been." He goes on to talk about this new report saying, the election was great and then he says at the end, rigged election.

Our world of alternative facts and parallel universes, I guess will continue forever perhaps.

ALEX BURNS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I would expect it too, John. And I do think the way you saw there from Geraldo Rivera is a pattern that we have seen from Trump friends all along going back to the 2016 campaign. They sort of go out in public and say that the president or candidate Trump back in the day is just about to do the responsible thing as a sort of inducement for him to do that because they feel like sort of preemptive positive reinforcement might draw him into that space. And then of course he rarely if ever actually follows through with that.

So, I do think, John, we're approaching a real moment of truth for the Republican Party where you know this president is showing in every way possible that he has no intention of exiting the stage quietly or even semi graciously. And as a party, they're going to have to decide not just what are they going to do between now and the time the next president is sworn in, because Joe Biden as you say will be the president on January 20th. But how much are they going to allow their agenda and their message to be dictated by this person who clearly has very, very limited interest in playing a role in governing.

KING: It is a fascinating point because the president clearly wants to keep them under his thumb for the next four years. It's just crystal clear. You want my support in the Georgia Senate runoffs, be nice to me, support my claims of election fraud. And that was something, Jackie, in the interviews of Barack Obama, former president, as part of his book tour with CBS. He says and you know if Republicans aren't going to listen to President Obama, but he says they should think twice about this. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OBAMA: I'm more troubled by the fact that other Republican officials who clearly know better are going along with this, are humoring him in this fashion. It is one more step in delegitimizing not just the incoming Biden administration, but Democracy generally. And that is a dangerous path.

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KING: I don't really care whether you are a Democrat, Republican or Independent, it is really hard to argue with that.

KUCINICH: Right, but then what Republicans are doing is they are looking at the people that voted for them, who voted for Donald Trump, who aren't going anywhere. Even if President Trump does exit stage right, his voters will still remain and still at least for the near future be very supportive of him.

[11:10:10]

So, Republicans have an eye on their own reelection, and you know their own fortunes. And as far as folks in 2024, oh my God, I can't even talk about it yet. But you know the folks that want him to run -

KING: Too soon.

KUCINICH: -- for president.

I know too soon. But for the Republicans that want to -- are eyeing a run in 2024, they don't want to upset him because -- they didn't want him to tear down their potential aspirations even if he doesn't run. So, there really is the incentive for them not to speak out isn't there politically.

KING: And if you look at the calendar, Alex, if you believe -- if you believe and this is not about Geraldo. This is about the president. If you believe the president's quote/unquote a "realist" and he's going to watch the certification, then you would look there for November 20th, when Georgia certifies the votes. I know the other ones come after that.

But if Georgia certifies the votes, look, the president of the United States would have to flip three states, depending on the size of the states, electoral college size, he would have to flip four states. I mean forgive me, but pigs will fly first. Is that sort of what we're waiting for to get past Georgia and another state and at that point, at least that point would the Republicans say Mr. President, stop?

BURNS: John, the problem is I don't think that we have any evidence that the president is a realist. When we talk about he would have to flip one, two, three, four states, there is no evidence that he has a political or legal strategy for flipping even one state and yet he is persisting in this dead end strategy the way he is right now.

So, I do think where other Republicans are concerned, yes, we are waiting for certification in some of the bigger states where it just becomes procedurally sort of a dead letter even if the president does want to proceed with fighting the election. His options will have exhausted themselves and then potentially Republicans have a way to just say sorry, sir, you tried your best, your lawyers tried their best, and this is where we are.

But again, given how fearful the party has been of antagonizing him to date, and given that the Georgia Senate runoffs are out there, and given that as Jackie said the 2024 dynamics are already sort of in the air and in the water, I don't know that I'd be terribly optimistic that you are suddenly going to have some mass profile of courage from Republican lawmakers just because we get a form of certification in a couple of states.

KING: And to that point, Jackie, one of the interesting tests for Joe Biden, he ran a campaign saying that I can get along with the Republicans. He did in the Obama days. He was often up on Capitol Hill with Mitch McConnell. They are not great friends. They don't agree on much. But they did trust each other back then. Their word was good to each other back then. Listen to Ron Klain. He will be the White House chief of staff. He gave his first interview last night where he said Joe Biden is starting to reach out to some Republicans, but not leader McConnell yet.

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RON KLAIN, INCOMING WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Joe Biden has spoken to Republicans. He has spoken to some Republican senators, some Republican governors. I'm not going to go into the names. He has not spoken though to Senator McConnell.

Look, I think Senator McConnell still seems to be insisting somehow that President Trump won the election. He didn't. There will be a time and a place for Joe Biden and Senator McConnell to talk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: There will be a time and a place to talk but this will be a giant test whether Joe Biden is right, that the Republicans are ready to do business.

KUCINICH: Absolutely. And I wanted to point out one thing. He wouldn't name who he has spoken to, so that in and of itself speaks volumes.

KING: It does speak volumes. He will - they're trying to be nice to those few Republicans who may have talked to the president-elect. All right, Jackie, Alex, grateful for the reporting and insights.

Up next for us, coronavirus outbreaks accelerating to numbers that are just unthinkable.

[11:17:58]

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KING: President Trump next hour is doing something that is sadly quite rare these days, holding a meeting on the coronavirus pandemic. The focus is "Operation Warp Speed," the administration's effort to rush production of COVID vaccines once one or more candidates are approved. There is encouraging news on the vaccine front. The widespread availability is still several months down the road. And the here and now is bleak, even more bleak than when this workweek began.

Let's walk through the numbers and the trendlines. And this map is just horrific. Again, 44 states, that is the orange and the red. 44 states more new COVID infections now compared to a week ago. The states in red, there are 16 of them, more than 50 percent new COVID infections this week compared to last week.

More than 50 percent in 16 states. Five states holding steady. Only one trending down. That is Georgia which it has some reporting issues right now. So, we're not even sure if that is correct.

The new case timeline again, 153. 496 new infections reported yesterday as this red line continues to just point straight up, trending up. The hospitalization trend -- let me come back here, also up 67, that is a high. A new record, 67,096 Americans hospitalized yesterday with COVID.

And if you look at the hospitalization trends, only four states, imagine this, only four of the 50 states West Virginia, Idaho, Alaska and Hawaii, saying they have fewer people hospitalized now compared to last week. Only four. That is sad, beyond sad.

The reason this is happening is because of this positivity map. Look at this positivity rates. 28 percent Missouri, 51 percent Iowa, 56 percent South Dakota, 46 percent Wyoming, 40 percent in Idaho.

More people testing positive, more people with infections, more people likely to spread infections. This is why the case count is going up across. And then that is why you have the sad projections as well. The CDC on projections says the death toll will be up to 282,000. So, up 40,000 by December 5th. That is just a couple of weeks away.

[11:20:00]

IHME, the University of Washington says the death toll could get as high as 438,941. So, 439,000 by March 1st. And watch this. The IHME says another 150,000 Americans could die. 587,000 by March 1st if states begin to ease mask requirements, mask mandates.

Masks somehow still a political debate in the United States. Including a critic, a skeptic who is a member of the United States Senate and a doctor.

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SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): We have 11 million people in our country who have already had COVID. We should tell them to celebrate. We should tell them to throw away their masks, go to restaurants, live again because these people are now immune. But Dr. Fauci doesn't want to admit to any of that. Dr. Fauci is like, oh, no, woe is me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is your message to the people who apparently are tired of wearing the mask over their nose as well as their mouth, they think it is uncomfortable and annoying?

GOV. PHIL MURPHY (D-NJ): You know what is really uncomfortable and annoying? When you die. That's my answer.

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KING: Joining us is Dr. Jonathan Reiner. He is a professor of medicine at George Washington University, previously advised the Bush administration as well as treated Vice President Cheney.

Dr. Reiner, it is good to see you. What goes through your mind when you hear a medical professional doctor like Senator Paul who is an ophthalmologist just essentially just waved his hand and brush it off, Dr. Fauci is woe is me, go ahead and celebrate in a restaurant, if you've had COVID. Walk us through your mind when you hear that.

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: He is an embarrassment. He is an embarrassment to medicine. He is an embarrassment to United States Senate. I've reminded you that he is the same person who while he was waiting for his COVID testing to come back thought it was a good idea to go for a swim in the Senate swimming pool. So, I put no credence in anything that he says about this pandemic.

What we know with certainty is that we're seeing exponential growth of the virus right now. As you said, 153,000 cases yesterday. And it is going to continue to rise until we did something differently. Cases are up 40 percent in the last week, hospitalizations are up 20 percent. Which may be the most critical issue. We are going to run out of room in hospitals unless we do something different. And what we need to do different is exactly the opposite of what Senator Paul said, which is we need to get everyone in this country to wear a mask. Every single person in this country needs to wear a mask when they go out in public.

KING: It would also -- I think you would agree it would also be nice if the president would spend daily attention on this. The current president does have a meeting on this today, it has been months since he's met with his Coronavirus Task Force throughout the campaign. He just essentially waved the back of his hand at the rising case count going up across the United States.

This is the take. Ron Klain will be the White House chief of staff when Joe Biden becomes the president little under 10 weeks from now. Listen to how he describes the change that will happen the moment Joe Biden is president.

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KLAIN: And he will have a COVID coordinator who works in the White House who has direct access to him and will be briefing him daily. That official will have a team of people that he works with, someone in coordinating here she works with, someone coordinating vaccine distribution, someone coordinating fixing the supply chain problems we're having, someone coordinating, fixing the testing problems we're having.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: You have experienced working with the White House. I assume that that is music to your ears if you will. My big question is, what happens between now and then? 68 days away.

REINER: Well, hopefully what would happen is the incoming administration would coordinate with the outgoing administration so that they can be up and running on day one in terms of vaccine distribution, in terms of understanding how much PPE we have, understanding what our ventilator reserve is, understanding what our testing capacity is, how to ramp that up further, know what every state needs. Except we don't have that now. That's what we want. That's what we want to see.

The other side of that is with the inattention that this administration has had right now to the virus, the president hasn't said a word about it, he has said more about cable news rankings than he has about the COVID pandemic. Without any action on the part of this administration, deaths are going to mount, hospitals are going to fill, you will see refrigerator trucks reappear in American cities. So, we can't wait you know until the next administration takes office on January 20th. We need to act now.

KING: Yesterday, Dr. Michael Osterholm, who is one of - on the president-elect's advisory council on coronavirus. He floated the idea of a four to six weeks lockdown, that was quickly shutdown by other members of the vice president, president-elect's team, saying, no, we're discussing a whole lot of things. But the president-elect prefers not to do that. Yet the Illinois governor, he is one of the governors who's dealing with this, every governor is now dealing with the spike in cases, he says at least at a state level, something like that just might be necessary. Listen.

[11:25:03]

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GOV. J.B. PRITZKER (D-IL): We're running out of time. And we're running out of options. Our growth in new cases is now exponential. The numbers don't lie. If things don't take a turn in the coming days, we will quickly reach a point when some form of a mandatory stay-at- home order is all that will be left.

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KING: Should this in your view be a state by state issue still or might there be a need for a national lockdown of some sort?

REINER: Well, I think - well, first of all, the virus gets to dictate this, it doesn't matter what I say, it doesn't matter what the governors say, it is what the virus says. And what you will start to see on state levels is that hospitals will exceed their capacity to treat patients safely or effectively. And states will be forced to lock down. So, it is better to consider what we can do short of that now, get the public behind this, but understand that when hospitals fill, states will have no choice but to shut down. KING: That is a sober assessment as we go. Dr. Reiner, always grateful for your time and your insights. Thank you.

Still ahead for us, the president's own Department of Homeland Security calls this election the most secure in U.S. history, directly contradicting the boss.

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