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U.S. Soars To Record 184,000 New Virus Cases On Friday; Trump Again Refuses To Accept Biden Win Is Legitimate; Georgia's Largest County Expected To Complete Recount Today; Airlines Prepping For Thanksgiving Rush Despite Travel Warnings. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired November 15, 2020 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:17]

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: Good afternoon from New York. Thanks for being with us. I'm Erica Hill, in for Fredricka Whitfield.

And we begin this hour with a nation in crisis. Cases are surging, hospitalizations again on the rise, new concerns about an increase in deaths. And more than nine months into this pandemic there is no national plan despite the fact that this virus is spiraling out of control.

The numbers don't lie here . On Saturday Johns Hopkins reported another 166,000 new cases continuing a devastating trend.

The president touted important vaccine news late last week but didn't address the rapid acceleration in new cases and today he refocused on spreading disinformation railing against the results of the election, one he admitted he lost this morning but still can't seem to let go.

Meantime, the nation's top infectious expert, one of the country's most trusted voices, Dr. Anthony Fauci said the president hasn't attended a coronavirus task force meeting in several few months. Another top White House taskforce member confirming it's been at least five months.

States grappling with this new surging announcing new restrictions as they try to contain the spread. On Saturday, West Virginia and Kentucky reporting their highest single day case counts since the start of the pandemic. Maryland posting its highest increase in new cases.

New Mexico and Oregon ordering new shutdowns and restrictions on businesses. Colorado's governor just ordered the state's emergency operation center to return to its highest level of operation.

And the governor of Washington is set to speak this hour. He's expected to announce sweeping new restrictions for his state including bans on social gatherings and indoor restaurant service, gym closures, and occupancy limits for other businesses.

This morning, my colleague Jake Tapper spoke with Dr. Fauci about the new reality and what lies ahead. Here is that interview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: We just hit a record high 184,000 new cases on one day, Friday and it is getting worse.

Other than wearing masks, washing hands, avoiding crowds, and social distancing, what more on a policy level do we in the United States need to be doing?

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Well, what we have government to do is make what you just said, Jake, uniform. And not spotty. Everybody's got to do it.

There's no excuse not to do that right now because we know that can turn things around. I mean that is the tool we have.

As I mentioned just recently and as you alluded to, we have good news with regard to the vaccine. So there is light right at the end of the tunnel, help is coming. And that should, I believe, motivate people to just say we're going to double down and do this uniformly.

Those are the tools we have right now and they do work. We can get this to plateau and come down. We've got to -- I mean obviously everybody is sensitive to what we call COVID fatigue. People are worn out about this but we've got to hang in there a bit longer particularly as we get into the holidays seasons and the colder weather as we get into the late fall and early winter months.

We've got to hang together on this Jack -- Jake because we can make it turn around. We really can.

TAPPER: New cases are skyrocketing. We know that hospitalizations and then deaths ultimately follow. A University of Washington model projects that the U.S. will reach 439,000 deaths due to COVID by March 1st. Is that really possible? Another 200,000 deaths in just the next four months.

DR. FAUCI: Yes. It is possible, Jake. And the issues, the models, as I've said so often, are as good as the assumptions you've put into the model.

And we've got change those assumptions. You've got to say we're going to turn it around by very, very vigorously adhering to the public health measures.

And we don't need to get to that number. That is a model number if we act in a certain way. We can turn that around. That plus the fact that we're going to start getting doss of vaccines available for the highest priority individuals some time in mid to late December. And then as we get into January, we'll get more vaccine doses available.

I think when we put those two things together, vaccine plus strong adherence to the fundamental public health measures, we can blunt that. We don't have to accept those large numbers that are so terrifying.

TAPPER: Half of the states across the country, 25 states, have reported record hospitalizations this week due to COVID. I know that you have said that you don't think a nationwide lockdown is necessary but given the numbers we're seeing, do you see any circumstances in the next few months where it might make sense for local officials -- mayors or maybe governors -- to issue new stay-at-home orders in just specific, discrete (ph) parts of the country?

[14:05:06]

DR. FAUCI: I think that likely will happen Jake, if you don't turn around this surge. I mean you're right, we're not going to get a national lockdown. I think that's very clear. But I think what we're going to start seeing in the local level, be they governors or mayors or people at the local level, will do as you said very surgical type of restrictions which are the functional equivalent of a local lockdown.

But we're not going to have a national lockdown. But you know, if things really get bad and you put your foot on the pedal and yet still, you have to surge, you may need to take the extra step that you are talking about.

TAPPER: And you've already encouraged Americans to consider canceling any Thanksgiving plans that involve visiting with somebody else or having visitors come. I know a lot of Americans are looking ahead, hoping to make plans for other holidays this Christmas.

When do you think Americans will next be able to safely gather together for family events like this? Are you suggesting it probably won't be able to happen until, I don't know, Labor Day 2021, Thanksgiving 2021?

DR. FAUCI: You know, it depends on a number of factors, Jake. For example, we have vaccines now, the first one that came out was highly effective. I anticipate that the second one likely will be comparable. We never can tell until you see the data. But would be comparable.

That is great. But we have to get people to take the vaccine. So if we get the overwhelming majority of people taking the vaccine and you have on the one hand an effective vaccine, on the other hand a high degree of uptick of the vaccine, we could start getting things back to relative normal as we get into the second and third quarter of the year where people can start thinking about doing things that were too dangerous just months ago.

But we've got to put all those things together, Jake. We can't just wish it happening. We have to get the vaccine. It's got to be deployed and we can't abandon fundamental public health measures.

You can approach a degree of normality while still doing some fundamental public health things that synergize with the vaccine to get us back to normal.

TAPPER: So not until the second or third quarter of 2021 though. Christmas is probably not going to be possible.

DR. FAUCI: Yes, well, you know, I think that if we get most of the country vaccinated in the second, third quarter of the year and the vaccine continues to prove its efficacy and people adhere to those fundamental measures, I think we can start approaching the degree -- it's not going to be a light switch, Jake. We're not going to turn it on a orb. Going from where we are to completely normal. It's going to be as gradual accrual of more normality as the weeks and the months go by, as we get well into 2021.

TAPPER: President Trump's administration is refusing to acknowledge reality. They're blocking the transition process with President-Elect Joe Biden's team including any transition related to fighting the pandemic.

How problematic is it for the fight against the coronavirus if the NIH and your agency and other government experts are not able to begin communicating with President-Elect Biden's team which, as you know, has its own expertise in fighting pandemics?

DR. FAUCI: Well Jake, as you know, I've been through multiple transitions now having served six president for 36 years. And it's very clear that that transition process that we go through, that time, the period measure in several weeks to months is really important in a smooth handing over of the information as well as it's almost like passing the baton in a race.

You don't want to stop and then give it to somebody. You want to just essentially keep going. And that's what transition is. So it certainly would make things more smoothly if we could do that.

TAPPER: So just as a public health measure, you think it would be a good idea fi your team would be able to work with the Biden/Harris transition team right just in terms of what's best for the public health of the American people.

DR. FAUCI: Yes, of course, Jake. That is obvious. Of course, it would be better if we could start working with them.

TAPPER: When is the last time President Trump attended a White House coronavirus task force meeting?

DR. FAUCI: You know, it was months ago. But you know, when we have our task force meeting, it's run, as you know, by Vice President Pence and the vice president then translates that to the president himself. But the last time the president was physically at a task force meeting was several months ago.

TAPPER: President-Elect Biden has selected Ron Klain to be his chief of staff in the White House. And partly the reason for that, he pointed to claims experience fighting ebola in 2014. You worked closely with Ron Klain during that outbreak. What do you think of President-Elect Biden's choice for chief of staff?

[14:10:02] DR. FAUCI: It is an excellent choice. I mean I worked very closely

with Ron Klain during the Ebola outbreak. He was the -- you know, they called it a czar -- he never liked that word czar. He was the coordinator but he was absolutely terrific at the ebola situation where we had a very successful, ultimate end game with ebola. We developed therapies, we put out the outbreak -- you know, it was a terrible outbreak obviously, but we ultimately were very successful. But that is how I got to know Ron.

TAPPER: It's quite a contrast. In January of this year, Ron Klain wrote a piece for "The Atlantic" talking about what needed to be done for the pending crisis, this is in January, and the next month the Trump acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney was saying that the virus was just another hoax from the media. . You don't have to comment on that. I am.

Let's move on. I want to ask you about this new vaccine from Pfizer which will be hard to distribute, challenging to distribute because it needs to be kept at 75 degrees Celsius and it will have two doses.

We're hearing from state officials, health officials in places such as North Dakota and Mississippi who say they're overwhelmed, they're daunted, one added we absolutely do not have enough to pull this off successfully.

How can it be that we're in November and said health officials are worried that they're not going to be able to properly distribute this vaccine?

DR. FAUCI: Well, it's going to be a challenge. That's for sure. I know that the states -- I mean that's not something that I deal with --

TAPPER: Right. No, I know.

DR. FAUCI: -- the distribution. Others do but I can't -- but I can tell you, Jake, just from what I'm hearing, they feel they need more resources to be able implement something that they had not done before. And namely the special requirements.

I believe it's going to be done, Jake. I'm cautiously optimistic that we will be able to get that done. We have, you know, a system -- the distribution system led by General Gus Perna (ph) who's going to be responsible for getting the material there.

Obviously locally, once they get them there. They're going to have to be able to distribute and that's what they're going to likely need more resources for as we're hearing they're talking about needing considerable more resources to be able to implement that.

TAPPER: Is the Pfizer vaccine safe for kids? Has it been tested on kids?

DR. FAUCI: No, not yet. What we do -- and this is not an unusual situation -- is that once you have a vaccine shown to be safe and effective in adults, you can go back and do Phase 1 and Phase 2 trials in children and then do what is called bridging it -- namely using the immunogenicity data to show that it is comparable responses in children but it's safe.

And the reason we do that is that children are vulnerable and you always got to make sure that you are dealing with a safe and effective vaccine before you even think about putting it into children.

You want to get to children to get it as quickly as you possibly can. You don't want to deprive them of access to it, but you want to make sure you're safe when you're dealing with a vulnerable population such as children. And that's standard what we do with almost all vaccine.

TAPPER: Once somebody has been immunized, I guess for Pfizer it's two doses. I'm not sure what it is for Moderna or the other vaccines coming down the pipe. But once the process is complete, does that mean they can take off their masks. They don't have to social distance. They can just go about their lives as before?

DR. FAUCI: You know, I would recommend that that is not the case. I would recommend you have an added area of protection. Obviously with a 90 plus percent effective vaccine, you can feel much more confident.

But I would recommend to people to not abandon all public health measures just because you've been vaccinated because even though for the general population it might be 90 to 95 percent effective, you don't necessarily know for you how effective it is.

So when I get vaccinated, which I hope too when it becomes my turn to get vaccinated. I'm not going to abandon completely public health measure. I could feel more relaxed and essentially not having the stringency of it that we have right now. But I think abandoning it completely would not be a good idea.

TAPPER: Because 5 percent to 10 percent of the people that get immunized, it will not effective for so they might actually get the virus --

DR. FAUCI: Right.

TAPPER: -- if they just completely let down their guard.

Ok. That's interesting.

DR. FAUCI: Right.

TAPPER: You have worked for six different administrations, as you noted.

I want to take you back to something that you said to the previous anchor of the show, Candy Crowley, back in 2014 during the Ebola crisis about reflecting on the fact that your job is to deliver bad news to people in power. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. FAUCI: I have never had an experience where the president is telling me to tell him something that he wants to hear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: "I have never had an experience where a president is telling me to tell him something that he wants to hear."

I guess you can't say that anymore.

[14:15:04]

DR. FAUCI: Well, I have been as transparent and open with telling the administration the facts.

What they do with it is a different story. But I certainly have not held back from giving my advice and recommendation based on the facts and the data. That hasn't changed from 2014. In fact, that hasn't changed for 36 years that I have been doing this.

TAPPER: No, of course not. It's just that this is the only time it's gotten you into hot water.

One last question.

DR. FAUCI: Well --

TAPPER: You don't have to comment on that. Let's just -- we need you in that job.

The United States --

DR. FAUCI: OK.

TAPPER: -- has 4 percent of the world's population, and roughly 20 percent of the world's coronavirus cases and the world's coronavirus deaths.

How do you think history will remember the United States government response to this pandemic in the -- over the past year?

DR. FAUCI: You know, obviously, it's not going to be a good report because of the extent of the suffering that we have had.

But, you know, Jake, I think we are going to have to need a real academic analysis of the multifaceted issues that went into this. And it has a lot to do, I think, with the nature of our country, a very large country, with 50 states that tend to want to do things a little bit differently, with a country as great and phenomenal as it is that has a flare of independence, that they don't like to be told what to do.

So, there are a lot of things that are going to go into why we have such a high rate of infection and a high rate of death.

And I think that is going to take some serious examination before we really nail down what the totality of the cause of that is. It's going to be very complicated.

(END VIDEOTAPE) HILL: A clear message there. The worst is yet to come.

With President Trump firmly against a peaceful transition, does this mean even more American lives are being put on the back burner for the next two plus months? The danger doctors say the nation now faces in that time.

Plus the state of the economy. How the suffering of business could result in even more loss.

And former President Obama weighing in on the state of the pandemic under President Trump's leadership.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I was not the person who at a White House briefing room said -- I bleached the way to solve COVID -- I wasn't doing a routine, I was repeating words that I heard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:17:30]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: As we are now firmly in mid-November, the coronavirus is surging to frightening levels across the country and it's setting the stage for what is frankly looking like a nightmarish winter in this country.

New cases have topped 100,000 a day for 12 straight days. Just let that sink in for a moment, look at the way that graph is just spiking up. Hospitalizations and deaths also rising and adding to the crisis is a president who is still refusing to allow the Biden transition access to critical assets and information, both of which are key to the fight against COVID-19.

And joining me now Dr. Carlos Del Rio. He's the executive associate dean of Emery University School of Medicine Equity Health System.

Doctor, always good to see you. As an infectious disease expert. I mean we look at what is staring us down right now. these next several weeks are critical.

In your estimation, what is the impact of this lack of access for the incoming administration? How much could that actually hamper efforts to address the pandemic?

DR. CARLOS DEL RIO, EXECUTIVE ASSOCIATE DEAN, EMORY UNIVERSITY: Erica, I'm very concerned. This is clearly going to cost a lot of lives. And it's going to cost a lot of lives because we basically nobody in charge. We don't have leadership right now against this pandemic.

The Trump administration has essentially closed the books and is waiting for the vaccine to come but the vaccine is not going to come fast enough to make any difference on it. So we have to first of all, have a transition team the Biden coronavirus task force start discussing things, start talking, start taking over.

But one of the things that I think is very important, Erica, is we also need to have institutions like the CDC step up to the plate. They have been silent throughout this pandemic. They need to come out, they need to step up and they need to start talking because the reality is what we have right now is a leadership vacuum.

HILL: So if we're in this, as you put it, this leadership vacuum, we're not, as you're saying, we're not hearing from the CDC. We're not getting regular updates from the task force.

The reality is that's probably not going to change for the next 60- some odd days. So then what should, what can happen in that interim?

DR. DEL RIO: Well, I think what's going to happen is you'll see -- you just had Dr. Fauci, you have me, every single one of us infectious disease specialist are going to be in the media, are going to be coming out saying what we need to say which is do the things we've been telling you, we need people to wear their masks, we need people to also watch their distance, we need people to limit gathering to no more than 10 individuals.

We need to get more testing out there. If you're infected, you need to isolate and we need to just stop going to bars, to restaurants, to indoor places because -- the churches -- because that is where infections are happening.

We have to take (INAUDIBLE) as individuals and try to stop the spread of infection right now.

HILL: The reality is there has never been a national plan. There was no national lockdown. There was never a national approach to deal with this. The states have handled it in different ways as we know. I think there are maybe 35 states at this point that have a mask mandate.

We're seeing these new restrictions, the governor Washington just a few moments ago announcing more for his state.

And Dr. Fauci pointed to the fact that these localized measures can work. I wonder though if we're still looking at just localized measures. You know, is there a point where there needs to be a national focus, a uniform plan and could that ultimately make the difference?

DR. DEL RIO: Erica, there needs to be a national plan back in March when the president started the coronavirus task force. We needed a national plan. We needed states to all work together and to have federal coordination. We never had that. And that's why we have a disaster right now.

[14:25:01]

DR. DEL RIO: But the reality is that we still have time to do something. I think governors whether Democratic or Republican need to come together under the National Governors Association. They need to come together and need to agree on the things that they all need to do together.

And we all need to be rolling in the same direction. I think if the country rolls in the same direction, we can weather this very difficult time.

HILL: You know, one of the things that Dr. Fauci said at the end of this interview with Jake that really struck me you know, Jake was asking about as we look back on how the country handled this, essentially what will the report card be.

One of the things he brought up was in his words the, you know, flare I think he said the flare of independence in this country.

And that's one thing that Americans really pride themselves on. I wonder though if some officials based on what we see in terms of backlash, both online and in person for some folks, do you think there's ever been some reticence among officials to take stronger measures because they're concerned about that flare of independence.

They're concerned about the pushback from people who see smart public health measures as somehow infringing on their independence? And has that hampered efforts at all.

DR. DEL RIO: I think there is absolutely no doubt about that. but I think the other thing that Dr. Fauci didn't mention and I will say is that the politicization of this pandemic, especially the way that, you know, public health by nature is political but it has never been partisan. And they it was (INAUDIBLE) partisan pandemic if you wear a mask or you're a Democrat and you don't wear a mask, you're a Republican. If you wear a mask, you're weak. If you don't wear a mask, you're strong.

This has been really, really bad. We need to all come together. And I think, you know, yes, independence and individualism is a characteristic of Americans, but so is the compassion. So is the will to do good.

And I think we need to appeal to people's compassion, these are hard times and when you have 1,000 people or more dying per day, I'm just so concerned that we are not seeing an outrage. I mean with 1,000, you know, I have said this over and over. If you have two jumbo jets full of people drop from the sky every day for a week people would be mad. People will be saying what is going on with the airlines.

Right. So we need to be sure that we as a mainstream demand immediate action.

HILL: Dr. Carlos Del Rio, always appreciate your insight and also your very important voice in all of this. Thank you.

DR. DEL RIO: Thank you Erica.

Just ahead, former President Obama warning of a divided nation as President Trump refuses to concede the election he lost. We are live from the White House next.

[14:27:32]

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HILL: President Trump, again, today, on Twitter refusing to accept that Joe Biden won the election fairly and square. We have just 66 days now until the Trump administration moves on and Joe Biden is sworn in as president.

With the pandemic surging and an economy that continues to falter, a cooperative transition may never have been more crucial. At a new CBS interview, former President Obama expressing concern that President Trump's refusal to concede is an indication of just how deeply divided the American people are.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 72 million people voted for Donald Trump. What does that say to you about the state of this country?

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Well, what it says is that we are still deeply divided. The power of that alternative world view that's presented in the media that those voters consume, it carries a lot of weight.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you worried about that?

OBAMA: Yes. It's very hard for our democracy to function if we are operating on just completely different sets of facts.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But it's clear as we sit here today, we're not going to have a peaceful transition. I think about John McCain calling, George and Laura Bush welcoming you and Michel Obama to the White House.

OBAMA: Could not have been more gracious.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I remember you inviting Donald Trump to the White House.

OBAMA: If you succeed, then the country succeeds.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wish that you succeed because we want the country to succeed. He does not seem to have taken a page out of any of those playbooks.

OBAMA: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: CNN's Jeremy Diamond is at the White House. So, Jeremy, the president has been all over Twitter again today, still, it seems really focused on the election.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, no question about it, Erica. We saw President Trump today for the first time briefly acknowledged the fact that Joe Biden won this election but then everything else that followed on the president's Twitter feed and in that very same tweet was a combination of conspiracy theories, lies and baseless allegations.

The president saying that Joe Biden won the election but only in the president's view because this election was rigged, which is, of course, not true based on every election official you can ask, as well as the own federal government's conclusions about this election.

Now, the president went on to say after he acknowledged that John Biden won this election that he would not concede this election, and then went on to make another series of baseless claims.

And, really, Erica, this has been reflective of the president's attitude over the past week. Our sources have told us that over last week, the president, on the one hand, urged his attorneys and his legal team to continue fighting to overturn the results of this election, urging them to pursue these lawsuits and recount challenges that so far have really been dismissed or pulled in courts in several key battleground states.

And on the other hand, the president has also begun to come to grips with reality. We saw a brief acknowledgement of that on Friday when the president, for a moment there, appeared to note the fact that a Biden administration could potentially be succeeding him.

[14:35:00]

For now though, it is clear, Erica, that the president is digging in, he appointed Rudy Giuliani, the former New York City mayor, to lead his legal effort. But as I said, so far, all of those legal challenges, including nine on Friday, in a single day, were either dismissed or dropped by the president's legal team and his allies.

And it's also very clear that as all of this is happening, the president is focused on trying to contest this election, not at all focused on the raging coronavirus pandemic, which has been worsening. We are seeing these explosion of cases. And he's not also allowing the Biden team, the incoming Biden administration, to prepare to take on this urgent crisis. Dr. Anthony Fauci today underscoring the importance of having that transition take place. But for now, the president is not budging. Erica?

HILL: Yes, he's not budging and also resisting the job that he is in and not leading on that front either. Jeremy Diamond, thank you.

Joe Biden and Kamala Harris will address the economic recovery, we're told, in a joint speech tomorrow. But with this presidential transition stalled and an epidemic surging, we know the economic outlook for the United States is dire. Renewed optimism on a COVID vaccine offers some hope of relative normalcy, but it is not, as we know, like turning on light switch, and will likely not come until sometime in the back half of next year.

The message from economists, including the Fed, remains clear, a vaccine is not replacement for stimulus and a full recovery will require both.

Diane Swonk is a Chief Economist at Grant Thornton and joins us now from Chicago. Diane, so we'll be hearing from the incoming administration tomorrow in terms of their economic plan. I'm curious, what are you listening for in that address? What do you want and need to hear?

DIANE SWONK, CHIEF ECONOMIST, GRANT THORNTON: Well, the bottom line is COVID doesn't care who won the election, but COVID is the one thing we need to care about because it is the largest determinant of where the economy is going over the next six to nine months. And I think that's something that gets lost in translation, is that health policy and economic policy are complementary, not competitive. And that's just been lost in translation.

We've already seen a huge pullback in response to this fall resurgence that was before many states started to reenact restrictions on travel and where people go. And I think that is very important to keep in mind. Some of the largest losses were in place like North Dakota, that had very little to no restrictions, and the pullback in credit card and debit card spending was fairly dramatic because people are afraid to go where they might get contaminated.

HILL: Right. And without confidence, obviously, in what's coming next, it is hard to people spend money and we are consumer-based economy, as we know.

When we look at stimulus, I mean, there is a lot of agreement that stimulus is needed. Look no further than the average American who has been shouting at their top of their lungs that this is needed. And Congress, you wrote earlier this week, seems unable to get a deal done unless the stock market is tanking.

But as you point out, that is -- it is sort of the apples and oranges to look solely at the stock market. Why is there such disconnect, do you think, in Washington?

SWONK: Well, it's interesting, because we a long history of unfortunately the only thing bringing together this divided government, whether it'd be today to 12 years, when we were in the height of the global financial crisis, is, in fact, stock market volatility and, really, a meltdown in the financial markets.

We saw Congress come together in a remarkable way with the CARES Act back in March of this year but that was when the economy -- the financial markets were melting down more rapidly than they had been in the height of the global financial crisis in 2008 and 2009.

And so, for some reason, that is what financial market -- that's what Congress pays attention to and that does seem to get them to come together. Yet, we know that the stock market is less reflective of the economy today than it ever has been. The broader stock in this season only account for about 20 percent of employment and, in fact, much of the reasons the stock market is doing well is because it's betting on the consolidation that we're actually seeing in a broader economy, and it is not reflecting the pain of the loss of small businesses and dynamism in the U.S. economy that undermines job creation going forward.

HILL: In terms of both job creation and, frankly, the loss of jobs that we've seen, you also heard about the lasting damage from COVID on the labor market. Can you just walk us through that, because I think you just put it in perspective so well?

SWONK: It is really sort of astounding to think about how the wounds that were triggered by COVID are now festering and could become permanent scars on the complexion of the U.S. labor market. We know that the ranks of the long-term unemployed in the month of October before we saw much of this pullback and the economic activity we're seeing now had already began to swell again over 27 weeks, over a million people joined those ranks in October alone.

Why do we care about that? Because at six months, we hit a tipping point where unemployment, people who were unemployed more than six months experienced more mental and physical health problems, their family structure disintegrates, the wellbeing of children is sort of undermined.

[14:40:02]

And when they do get reemployed, they tend to take -- have to take in ever lower-paying job they had than they lost.

Now, that may not be the case because of the low wage nature of the recession, but what we've seen COVID do is expose and exacerbate inequality across race, gender. Two-thirds of the women who -- the workers who have dropped out of labor force entirely since February are women who are bearing the burden of caring and teaching their children now at home as they do online schooling. And that's losing women in the pipe line that could be in leadership.

Same thing with race, black and Hispanic workers have been hit the hardest, little wage workers the hardest, and then educational attainment has been hit as well. 60 percent of low-wage households are not getting the kind of education that they should be getting. And many of the dropouts we're seeing from kindergarten to 12th grade are damaging their educational attainment and those dropouts we know from natural disasters could permanent.

So this is on addition to the crisis itself and the long-term effects that COVID can have on our health of workers who even have mild cases. So, I think a lot gets lost in translation in terms of we need to dress the wounds we have so that they don't deepen and so that we are not faced with the longer term scars that only undermine the labor market and a healthy labor market, but our ability to grow as an overall economy going forward, it hurts the trajectory and our potential to grow.

HILL: Yes, as you point out, the personal impact, we can't lose sight of that. And oftentimes, I think that is the best story that can be told to make people sit up and pay attention, listen. Diane Swonk, I appreciate it. Thank you.

We are getting some new numbers from the hand recount in Georgia. The state's largest county actually expecting to be finished with the recount later today and we are inside the room where it is happening. We'll take you there live, next.

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HILL: A hand recount of the ballots cast for president in Georgia's largest county is expected to be completed this afternoon. An election official in Fulton County telling CNN the county is finishing its hand recount in record time.

CNN's Amara Walker joining us now from Atlanta. So, are where we standing right now? Almost done, that seems really quick.

AMARA WALKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, I think a lot of us are pleasantly surprised, including the elections director. And you can see behind me, Erica, that it is pretty empty here. The 170 tables for the auditing -- I counted about 14 still working. And like you said, Fulton County, which is the largest county in Georgia, is finishing up this hand recount in record time.

The elections director saying that the results of this hand recount should be uploaded to secretary of state some time this afternoon, so, really any minute now. And he did also mention that he does not expect the overall results to change in any substantial way, which was basically echoing what the secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger, has been saying.

I do want to mention a tiny little county in Southwest Georgia, called Early County, which finished its hand recount on Friday, because there's only 5,200 ballots to count, the elections director there said that the results from that hand count were exactly the same and she said that she was thrilled and shocked by that.

But, look, all in all, like you said, things clearly moving pretty smoothly as the secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger, has been saying. And it looks like many of the counties and the state are on track to meet the Wednesday deadline to finish up the hand audit so that Secretary Brad Raffesnperger can certify the results by Friday, the 20th, the federal deadline.

HILL: Amara, we've also learned that incoming White House Chief of Staff Ron Klain is now saying President-elect Joe Biden is going to be campaigning in Georgia for Democratic Senate candidates Jon Ossoff and Reverend Raphael Warnock. And that runoff election, of course, where Georgia's pivotal Senate seat is drawing closer. Amara, what more are you learning about that?

WALKER: Yes, you're right about that. Joe Biden's campaign will be focusing resources and money here in Georgia to support the Democratic candidates, Reverend Raphael Warnock and Jon Ossoff. In fact, the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee also announcing that it will be pouring millions of dollars here in these races to get Georgians registered to meet that December 7th deadline so that they would be able to vote on the January 5th, the date of the runoff. In fact, Jon Ossoff, the Democratic candidate, was on -- one of the Democratic candidates was on ABC this morning, saying that there are 23,000 young people in Georgia who will become eligible to vote between November 3rd and January 5th. Also the RNC pouring millions of dollars, $20 million into the runoff races and sending more than 600 staff members to support Senators David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler, so, all in all, all four candidates very well aware of how high the stakes are. Erica?

HILL: Yes, they are, and we'll be focusing on Georgia for the next several weeks. Amara Walker thank you so much.

Stay with us. We'll be right back.

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HILL: Thanksgiving now less than two weeks away, and despite the warnings from public health experts and officials to forego travel this year, airlines are preparing for a holiday rush. CNN's Pete Muntean reports.

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: So many of you are considering whether or not to travel for the Thanksgiving holiday. And airlines think the week of Thanksgiving will be the busiest they have been since March. American Airlines, United and jetBlue are all adding hundreds of flights in their schedules that they slashed because of coronavirus.

But what's so interesting here is that this is coming as the virus is surging across the country. And as airlines are announcing their doing away with policies they put in place at the start of the pandemic. JetBlue says it will sell every seat onboard its flight starting January 8th, 2021. Right now, it is capping capacity at 70 percent onboard. Southwest says it is done capping capacity after the Thanksgiving rush.

Airlines feel empowered by new research studies, a new one from Harvard University, says that ventilation systems onboard an airliner keep virus transmission rates low, so long as everybody onboard is wearing a mask, something that airlines have had to police on their own without any help from the federal government.

Delta Airlines just said it's added even more people to its no-fly list for refusing to comply with its mask policy.

[14:55:01]

Delta now says 550 people are now banned from flying.

Pete Muntean, CNN, Washington.

HILL: Just ahead, a sobering mark of the most dangerous health day in Washington State's state 100-year history. That is a blunt assessment from Governor Jay Inslee, as new coronavirus cases spike and hospitals brace for what's to come.

So is the U.S. in greater danger today than back at the start of this pandemic?

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