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Moderna Says, COVID-19 Vaccine is 94.5 Percent Effective; Trump Admits Biden Won, Insists He is Not Conceding; Trump Stonewalls Biden Transition During Pandemic. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired November 16, 2020 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:04]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR (Voice over): They announced that last week. U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar says this morning's vaccine news is a game changer.

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ALEX AZAR, SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: Here we are ten months from the date when this virus hit our shore and we have got a second 90 percent-plus effective vaccine for the American people. This is really a historic day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM (on camera): Well, this vaccine news could not come at a more crucial time in this country. Nearly 70,000 people were hospitalized with the virus yesterday alone, more than ever before in this pandemic. 15 states are reporting record hospitalizations, state and local leaders now beginning to roll out measures to try to slow down the virus' spread, including some red state governors.

Let's get to CNN Senior Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen with more details on this Moderna vaccine.

So, great news in the span of a few days, big positive progress for two vaccines. Tell us in particular how the Moderna one works.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Moderna has this trifecta, Jim. They have this incredible efficacy of 94.5 percent, and like Pfizer, they don't seem to have any serious side effects, people had headaches and body aches for just a short time. And, thirdly, and this is just for Moderna, they don't need any special freezers. You can just use the regular freezers that are already in pharmacies and doctors' offices.

Now, let's talk a little bit about these clinical trials that Moderna did. We've heard about challenge trials, which are happening in the U.K. That's not what this is. They didn't give people the vaccine and then give them the virus. Instead, what they did was they vaccinate a whole bunch of people and then told them to go live their lives and then they said, let's see what happens. It was just people living their lives.

Let's take a look at the particular numbers. So what happened in this trial was that 15,000 people were given the placebo. And of those 15,000 people, 90 of them went out and they -- all of them went out and lived their lives, 90 of them ended up coming down with COVID, 90 of them got sick with COVID. They gave another 15,000 people, different study subjects, the vaccine and they were told, go out and live your lives, let's see what happens, and five of them became sick with COVID.

Now, it is notable that none of those five became severely ill with COVID but among the placebo, 11 of them did.

Now, a couple of other basics on this vaccine, it is a two-dose vaccine, the doses are given 28 days apart. And it may be that this will turn out to be a seasonal vaccine.

Now, this is preliminary data, so we don't know. But we may need to do this every year because it may not give long-lasting immunity.

Something else that's interesting about Moderna, and Pfizer as well, they are using a whole new technology. It's called messenger RNA technology. And there are no vaccines out there on the market that currently use this technology. So, again, it's called mRNA technology.

And I spoke with Dr. Tal Zaks. He is the chief medical officer at Moderna. Here is what he had to say.

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DR. TAL ZAKS, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, MODERNA: This is, I believe, a major win for both our mRNA technology and its ability to prevent disease and for us as a society in our ability to work collaboratively and very quickly from the start of this pandemic be able to leverage science and collaboration to have a vaccine that has the potential, now the proof, to prevent COVID-19.

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COHEN (on camera): Now this data has already been reviewed by an independent panel of experts. The next step is that Pfizer and Moderna need to apply to the FDA for review of their application for authorization to put this on the market. I talked to Dr. Tony Fauci last night. He said he expects shots to start going into arms in the second half of December. Jim, Poppy?

SCIUTTO: Can't come soon enough. Elizabeth Cohen, thanks so much for being on top of it.

The sad fact is that today, new infections are rising all over the country, particularly in the city of Chicago, where a 30-day stay-at- home advisory is taking effect this morning now.

HARLOW: Well, this city is also asking everyone that lives there to avoid anything non-essential in terms of going out and all out of state travel ahead of Thanksgiving. The commissioner of the Chicago Department of Public Health, Dr. Allison Arwady, is with us. Thank you very much.

I know, I've got a family, my sister-in-law's family in Chicago, I know what this is like for her with little kids, but it's what you have to do. Can you explain where you are in Chicago, because you've called this uncharted territory and you've been quoted as saying that your city is on the verge of catastrophe right now?

DR. ALLISON ARWADY, COMMISSIONER, CHICAGO DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC HEALTH: So, our concern is that we're seeing about 2,400 cases a day. Early in the summer, we were seeing fewer than 200 cases being diagnosed per day. We've seen just in the last month, our cases go up five times, our hospitalizations go up three times, our deaths go up three times. And the biggest problem is that we see no slowing of that increase.

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SCIUTTO: What are the particular risks here? For instance, you see in Europe, they have focused on closing down bars and restaurants and that's shown up in the data, flattening the curve even in the midst of the second surge here. Are those the real risk centers? How about other areas such as schools, right? Because, ideally, you'd rather close restaurants and bars than schools.

ARWADY: Yes. So the data on schools has really been quite good, where you have really good protocols in place, schools have not been shown to be major sources of outbreak or driving community spread. What we see is that where people let their guard down is where COVID takes the opportunity to spread. So part of our recommendation here, right now not forever, is that people in Chicago not have anybody over into their home unless it is essential, like home health, education or childcare, and anyone who is over, of course, wearing that mask.

HARLOW: So, the testing czar for the White House, Admiral Giroir, just reiterated this morning something he also said last week, which is, look, the federal government, he says, has shipped out more than 50 million of these new rapid test, not the Abbott ones but the BinaxNOW, that's what they're called, rapid test. Do you have enough of them?

ARWADY: So we did recently receive some of BinaxNOW tests. They're rapid antigen tests and they're useful to be able to increase some of that rapid testing capacity. We've pushed them out already to our federally-qualified health centers, to some of our clinical locations but that's not the only thing we need. We're working to grow testing across the city.

HARLOW: By the way, you said it right. I said it completely wrong. I'm sorry about that.

SCIUTTO: That's why we have the doctors.

HARLOW: Yes, exactly.

SCIUTTO: Doctor, the president has claimed of a military operation being in place to distribute vaccines once they are ready. Now that we're getting close here, you have tremendous progress for two vaccines, is that true? Are you confident that the infrastructure is in place once these are approved and widely available that you and I and friends and family can get this quickly and reliably?

ARWADY: Well, the problem is, right at the beginning, there's not going to be enough vaccine for you and I and friends and family to get it. We'll be starting with health care workers, we'll be starting with people in long-term care facilities, some of the highest risk folks.

But I am very confident here in Chicago, for example, we've been buying the materials for immunization campaign for months, we've built up our ability to have that ultra cold storage for the Pfizer vaccine, for example. We've already got plans, so as soon as a vaccine is available, we'll be able to be pushing it out. But it's really going to start with our hospitals and our highest risk folks which are, of course, our health care workers.

HARLOW: we heard HHS Secretary Alex Azar say this morning, because the Moderna vaccine doesn't need to be kept at 117 degrees, below zero, Fahrenheit, that it's just going to be, and I'm paraphrasing, easier to distribute. Do you agree with that assessment? And do you get to choose as a city, hey, we want X amount of Moderna or X amount of Pfizer or do you just take whatever you can get?

ARWADY: At this point, we absolutely want and can accept and can distribute any amount of vaccine that we're able to get. There's already been some work done to prioritize based on population. So we have a sense if these vaccines are approved, how many doses we would receive need.

But just to give you a sense, that number is not even enough to cover our health care workers here in Chicago.

HARLOW: Really?

ARWADY: Yes, because there are hundreds of thousands of health care workers in Chicago and we'll probably get maybe 150,000 between the two vaccines, enough to cover initially. But then as more is produced and as more vaccines come online, we'll, of course, be ramping it up.

And so that's why it's so exciting that we're hearing this good preliminary information for a safe and effective vaccine. We want to get started on this, but it's going to take a number of months before we get to a point where it's widely available. Which is why right now, we need people to double down on the things that we know work, the masking, the social distancing, the staying at home when you can, the not having people over to your home. And at least here in Chicago, we have recommended canceling a traditional Thanksgiving.

SCIUTTO: Yes, too bad.

HARLOW: We did ours. We cancelled all of it. Thank you, Dr. Arwady, very much, and good luck to you and your whole team there. We appreciate it.

ARWADY: Thank you. HARLOW: Sure. Well, the president, for the first time on Sunday, seemed to acknowledge that the president-elect, Joe Biden, won the election but not really totally at all, still digging in, refusing to concede, doubling down on wild, unproven conspiracy theories.

SCIUTTO: Yes. He tweeted the words, Biden won, but then quickly backed away from that.

Joe Johns at the White House. Joe, what's happening? The fact is Republicans said give him time, let the legal process play out.

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I mean, the fact is he's losing in court but he's maintaining this attack on the integrity of the election. Is that going to change or no?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Anybody's guess. But it is clear that he maintains those attacks. I have to tell you, just this morning the president tweeted out, taking credit, if you will, for this latest development on vaccines because it happened on his watch.

And it is good news but he and his administration continue to find themselves in the position of gumming up the works on this good news that has now hit the country by not allowing for the acknowledgement of Joe Biden as the rightful winner of the election.

That, of course, means that the agency review teams from the Biden transition can't get into the Department of Health and Human Services and really get a look up close at how the vaccine rollout is going to work. So it's just one of many examples of this administration going in the wrong direction on health and science issues.

Another example of that, just within the last 24 hours, Dr. Scott Atlas tweeting out, indicating that people in Michigan should rise up after some additional coronavirus restrictions were put in place there. Dr. Anthony Fauci responding on NBC earlier. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES (Voice over): You know, I totally disagree with it, and I made no secret of that. I mean, I don't want to say anything against Dr. Atlas as a person but I

totally disagree with the stand he takes. I just do, period.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS (on camera): So, Atlas had to walk back that rise up comment, because there were concerns that he was suggesting he was inciting violence, if you will. He said he wasn't doing that. Back to you.

SCIUTTO: There was a plot in Michigan, as we know, targeting the governor in response to those restrictions. Joe Johns, thanks very much. HARLOW: Thanks, Joe.

Well, this morning, we're learning that the Biden transition team's top scientific advisers will be meeting with a number of vaccine makers and they're going to have those meetings starting this week.

SCIUTTO: CNN's Jessica Dean is following the president-elect in Delaware. And President-elect Biden, Vice President-elect Harris, they're going to be giving a speech today on economic issues. What do we expect their message to be?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know they're going to be getting a briefing earlier today on economic issues and then they'll be giving those remarks. Of course, the economic issue from Joe Biden on the campaign trail was all about his slogan, build back better, it was all about manufacturing jobs, building things in America, clean technology, clean energy jobs. So it will be interesting to see how much of that they had in the campaign now moves over to actionable items now that they know they are going to be in office starting January 20th.

The Biden transition team and Biden himself also know very much that the economy is tied to getting the coronavirus pandemic under control, that those go hand in hand. And to that end, as you mentioned, we know that scientific advisers for the Biden transition team will be meeting with those drug makers this week.

We also know that they're doing their very best to try to develop a vaccine distribution plan without getting access to the federal agencies who are responsible for carrying out that vaccine distribution plan, who are also making plans. Here is incoming Chief of Staff Ron Klain yesterday on that. Take a listen.

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RON KLAIN, CHIEF OF STAFF TO PRESIDENT-ELECT JOE BIDEN: We now have the possibility. We need to see if it gets approved of a vaccine starting perhaps December or January. There are people at HHS making plans to implement that vaccine. Our experts need to talk to those people as soon as possible so nothing drops in this change of power we're going to have on January 20th.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN (on camera): And, again, at this point, because that formal transition process has not been activated by the General Services Administration, they cannot talk to the White House coronavirus task force and they are concerned that the longer this goes on, Jim and Poppy, the more trouble this is going to be. This is a serious, large, multi-faceted logistical project, they need to get on top of this as soon as possible, and they know that.

HARLOW: Yes, like yesterday, they deserve the information. Jessica Dean, thanks a lot.

Still to come, approving a COVID vaccine is one thing, it's great, but it's really just the beginning. How do you get it to the millions of Americans who need it? We're going to take a look at the challenges and distribution ahead this hour.

Also, the president is still claiming election fraud with zero evidence of widespread election fraud. Why are a number of Republicans standing by him and not calling out those baseless claims?

SCIUTTO: And Rudy Giuliani touting wild conspiracy theories about the elections experts say will do serious damage to the country, and yet it goes on.

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HARLOW: The numbers do not lie. The COVID crisis is out of control. And every day that the president refuses to concede, it puts the president-elect, Biden, and his team at a disadvantage when it comes to preparing for the plan and the distribution to help Americans when he takes over.

SCIUTTO: Two months and a lot of Americans dying in the meantime.

With us now Jeff Mason, White House Correspondent for Reuters, and Susan Page, Washington Bureau Chief for USA Today. Folks, good to have you on, as always.

Susan, I wonder when this, what do you want to call it, kind of pact ends among most sitting Republican lawmakers, because they said for a number of days, let the legal process play out and the president will come around. The legal process is playing out, they're losing across the board and, in fact, pulling back some of their more outrageous fraud claims, yet the president is amping up his charges of a stolen election.

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No sign that he's going to give that up.

When, if ever, do Republicans or many Republicans or most abandon this and stop indulging?

SUSAN PAGE, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, USA TODAY: Yes. Quite remarkable we haven't heard from more Republican lawmakers in Washington. And it's really different from what we've seen in the past. In past elections, when the party's candidate has lost, the party tends to kind of abandon him, move on to new power centers and new ambitions. That certainly happened with Dole and with Romney and with McCain, the last three times we've had losing Republican candidates. That has not happened with Donald Trump, and I think that's because many in the Republican Party assume he will continue to be a force in the party and that they are loathe to cross him even now.

HARLOW: Then he might run again.

Okay. So, Jeff, beyond the lack of cooperation, to say the least, now in the transition, what about when Joe Biden is president? And I ask you this because Alex Burns and Jonathan Martin have that great piece in The Times yesterday and it brings up the question of will McConnell work with Biden more than he tried to, or did at all, with Barack Obama, right? Is he going to pull another, let's make him a one-term president?

They quote what I thought was interesting, Republican Representative Tom Cole of Oklahoma, who said, it would be folly during simultaneously a health and economic crisis for Mr. McConnell to reprise his strategy of denying Mr. Biden bipartisan success the way he did with Obama. That's from a Republican in Congress. And he said it would cost them seats if McConnell does that.

JEFF MASON, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, REUTERS: Yes, that is an interesting quote. But I think if you look at Senator McConnell's history, it's hard to make a judgment otherwise based on the strategy --

HARLOW: Even though he and Biden have worked together in the past well?

MASON: I mean, again, look at his history. That doesn't mean that's what he's going to do. I certainly know that and because we've heard him say it that President-elect Biden wants to work with Senator McConnell and with Republicans. He's made a big point of saying he wants to reach across the aisle, he wants to bring the country together and he wants to use the bipartisan attitude that he's had as a politician for decades in Washington as president. But that's no guarantee that the other side will offer him the same hand.

SCIUTTO: Susan, help me understand the sticking with Trump here, right? I get it, listen, look on our screen when it changes there, but he has more than 70 million people voted for him, but far more voted for his opponent. And in the past, when a Carter after one term or an H.W. Bush lost after one term, and, yes, they still got tens of millions of votes, as you say, the party moved on. I mean, because the fact is here, the president underperformed his party, right? He underperformed the party, which is remarkable, because people then made a choice for Republicans in down ballot races but not the president voted against him.

So, explain -- can you help us understand the fear factor here and is it exaggerated, in your view?

PAGE: So, it certainly is the most interesting thing. The most interesting surprise of the election wasn't Joe Biden's victory. We had expected that in the polling, it was how well Republicans did down the ballot. Why did they do that? What the Trump White House argues is not that that was a rejection of the president but that the president managed to turn out all these voters to helped Republicans down the ballot.

And the fear factor is because President Trump has been willing to use his power against other Republicans. How many times have we seen him denounce Republicans on Twitter? So, if you're a Republican and you want a future in the party, I think that makes you think twice about whether you're going to acknowledge the obvious, which is that President Trump has lost his bid for a second term, Jim.

HARLOW: To Susan's point, does it change after January 5th in the Georgia runoff Senate races? I ask because they need the president's support of the Republican candidates there, right, to turn out the vote.

MASON: They sure do. But I'm skeptical that it changes after that, largely because of what Susan said. I mean, the president is going to remain a force in the Republican Party for years to come whether he runs for re-election in 2024 or not, but he's dangling that. And that base that he has spent four years boosting and continues to boost right now isn't going away. So Republicans who may want to run for president 2024, be it against the former president or without him in the race will want his blessing and will want that base. So I think he knows that. His people know that. And he's going to continue to wield that power.

SCIUTTO: All right. Susan Page, President-elect Biden is forging ahead. He's building a COVID task force, he's going to have an economic speech later today. Draw us a picture of Biden's first few weeks in office, his first 100 days.

[10:25:01]

PAGE: Well, he has promised to do a series of things on day one. I would expect a flurry of executive action in the first days of his presidency to try to do a U-turn on some of the policies that President Trump has pursued for four years. In a way, it's like what happened four years ago when Trump was so determined to undo Obama policies. We're going to see that.

But one thing I think we've seen is President-elect Biden take a very deliberate attitude, a very low key attitude. He has tried hard not to take the bait from Donald Trump. And in that way, I think he is trying hard to lower the temperature in Washington. And I think there are a lot of Americans who would be grateful to see that.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: Thank you, both.

SCIUTTO: We vote for that.

HARLOW: Nice to have you, Susan Page, Jeff Mason, thanks as always.

Up next how do you vaccinate millions of Americans during a pandemic, the obstacles health experts are trying to overcome before the first dose is even administered.

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