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Oregon to Start Two-Week Freeze Amid Spike in Cases, Hospitalizations; Lawsuits That Tried to Disrupt Biden's Wins in Four States Are Withdrawn; United Airlines Testing All Passengers for COVID before Flight to London. Aired 11:30-12p ET

Aired November 16, 2020 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: But people around him know that as well.

[11:30:02]

He knows he's leaving the White House. Joe Biden will take office on January 20th.

I want to bring in CNN's Abby Phillip for more on this. Abby, what do you think the game is now then for President Trump since he does know the reality here?

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's such a great question, Kate. I think a lot of this is what it has always been about, which is maintaining the president's supporters' reliance on him for their reality.

The reality that he is spinning is one that we saw this weekend as thousands of his supporters showed up in Washington, they really believe. And the longer -- the more that they rely on President Trump for their information, for their sense of reality, the more power that he has. And that's regardless of whether he's in the White House

And you've already seen the consequences of that. Republicans are reliant on President Trump because they need the support of his base and that really is what this is all about. I think President Trump is someone who has always been focused on the importance of raw power and he's exercising it right now regardless of the consequences.

BOLDUAN: And you can see it in how many Republicans are reacting.

PHILLIP: Yes.

BOLDUAN: That's exactly right.

This does get at something that President Obama was speaking to last night in the interviews on 60 Minutes. Let me play this one part. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Maybe, most importantly, and most disconcertingly, what we've seen is what some people call truth decay, something that's been accelerated by outgoing President Trump. This sense that not only do we not have to tell the truth but the truth doesn't even matter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN (on camera): It's something we've all kind of started to talk a lot about much more. Is it clear, do you think, what the long-term impact when you look at politics is, even after President Trump is out of office? Because I don't get a sense that anyone thinks, Abby, that the whole thing, the whole political system resets once Trump gets on green one (ph) for the last time.

PHILLIP: Yes. Kate, you often have the Ohio governor, John Kasich, on your show. He talks about the Republican Party that he once was a part of. And I think he is very hopeful, like a lot of Republicans in his position who are not very pro-Trump but want the party to reset afterwards. I think we are already now in the phase where we know what the answer to that question is. It's not going to reset. There's not going to snapback.

This is the reality in which many Republicans, including establishment Republicans, like Ted Cruz and others, are lining up right behind the president in this universe in which reality is not reality, in which there is some possibility of overturning hundreds of thousands of votes where there is none.

I think that's what's happening right now is that we have to come to terms with the fact that there are many people in this country who don't want to believe objective fact and reality and are willing to believe a lot of falsehoods. We've seen those supporters being interviewed by our own reporters at campaign rallies where we tell them, this is not true, and they say, well, I believe that it's true and you are fake news and you're a liar.

So, look, I think it's incumbent upon people in power to push back on that but we're already seeing that they're not doing it. So I don't know what to say other than that. This is the world that we are living in. I think we have got to be prepared for what that looks like, even with a Joe Biden administration come January 20th.

BOLDUAN: Yes. And with President Trump winning 73 million votes in this election, it just shows once again how divided the country is and also the task, as you perfectly lay out, the task ahead for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, but not alone, for Republican leaders as well.

PHILLIP: The Republicans especially.

BOLDUAN: Yes, absolutely. Good to see you, Abby. Thank you.

PHILLIP: You too, Kate. BOLDUAN: Still ahead for us, hard hit Oregon is about to begin what the governor is calling a two-week freeze. What the restrictions mean especially in one COVID hot spot in the state, why restrictions there are going to last even longer.

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[11:35:00]

BOLDUAN: Welcome back. Oregon is preparing for a freeze. A two-week coronavirus freeze put in place by the governor starting, really, in full on Wednesday as the state is facing more and more troubling indicators that COVID is getting out of control there as well.

The new restrictions include limiting social gatherings to no more than six people from two different households and limiting restaurants and bars to takeout and delivery only.

Churches and other faith groups limited to gatherings of 25 people indoors, 50 people outdoors. Gyms and other similar facilities shutdown again as well, and there is more. These restrictions stay in place for even longer, four weeks for some of the hardest hit areas of the state. That includes Oregon's Multnomah County, which includes Portland.

Joining me right now is the county chair, Deborah Kafoury. Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it.

You've said that this is the toughest thing that your community has really ever had to go through. Why do the governor -- why does the governor and your community need to do this right now?

[11:40:00]

DEBORAH KAFOURY, CHAIRWOMAN, MULTNOMAH COUNTY COMMISSION: Because we -- we did really well at the beginning of this virus. The governor asked all of us around the state to stay home to save lives, and we did that.

But we've seen just the numbers going through the roof recently. And we think we've had several holiday weekends, we had unprecedented wildfires around our community that we had evacuees from neighboring communities, literally tens of thousands come into our county, and we have pandemic fatigue. People are tired. We've been under some restriction for nearly nine months.

BOLDUAN: As we have talked about quite a bit in the show today, the COVID fatigue is real. Pandemic fatigue is real. With that in mind, are you confident people are going to take the restrictions, this freeze seriously this time, that they're going to comply?

KAFOURY: I am. I'm hopeful. I have seen really throughout you this pandemic, I have seen just -- I've seen people working really, really hard to protect themselves, to protect others and also to reach out to their neighbors to make sure that they are okay. We've set up places for folks who are experiencing homelessness to go and we had volunteers just across our region reach out wanting to help.

And I think people here -- we felt lucky. We had lower numbers than any other state in the country and I think people got relaxed so they started going to the coast for the weekend with another family or having relatives over for dinner. And it's -- we can do it. I know we've done it before. We slowed the spread early in May, this summer, and we can do it again.

BOLDUAN: It's definitely possible. It is doable. It is in everyone's power to actually do it. But I'm also seeing the governor is getting a lot of -- some backlash from Republicans trashing this already, calling the restrictions unconstitutional.

A counterpart of yours, I guess, we would consider it in another county, is tweeting out that she's going to have as many family and friends together on Thanksgiving as she can find because she says the governor is wrong is what she tweeted out to order otherwise. What do you say to that?

KAFOURY: I say it's not about you. I mean, we do -- as you said, we have the power. It's in our control to stop this virus. But it's not just about ourselves and what we believe. We have to think about others. And I think that's what I tell people most of all is if you don't want to wear a mask, stay home and don't wear your mask. But when you go out in public or you're around other people, it's a gesture to them, you're showing them that you care about them and you want to protect them as well as yourself.

BOLDUAN: Look, a big question about this is, especially when you're talking about compliance, is enforcement. I see that there could be a fine of over is$1,000 or even arrest and jail time if people are found not complying with the restrictions. I mean, do you anticipate that folks are going to have to be arrested over this? Do you see that happening?

KAFOURY: I would hope not. And I think that sending out the message from the top, from our governor and being clear to our community that it is an option, we don't -- we don't have a police force at the county, those are run by the cities. But I don't think anybody wants to have additional police contact.

We've had, in Portland, as I'm sure you and your viewers know, we had unprecedented protests for the past few months about our racial unrest and racial injustices in our community. And, really, the last thing we need to do is put the police in the position of enforcing this action from the governor.

So I'm calling on my neighbors to please just do what is in the right thing. It will help us all. It will help us in the long run.

BOLDUAN: Well, Deborah, we'll definitely check back in as it all really starts going into effect on Wednesday. Thank you for your time.

KAFOURY: Thank you so much.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, if President Trump really does believe that the election was stolen from him, why then is his campaign dropping a central part of its election lawsuit in Pennsylvania?

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[11:45:00]

BOLDUAN: President Trump's long shot quest to reverse the results of the election through the courts is facing mounting setbacks. On Friday alone, nine cases meant to attack Joe Biden's -- Joe Biden in key states, those were denied or dropped, nine, nine.

And just last night, the Trump campaign dropped a key claim in its legal challenge in Pennsylvania, a state critical to President-elect Biden's victory. The revised lawsuit removes allegations election officials violated the Trump campaign's constitutional rights by limiting the ability of their observers to watch the ballots being counted, an allegation that has been central to Donald Trump's claim.

Joining me right now is CNN Election Law Analyst Richard Pildes. He is a constitutional law professor at New York University's Law School. It's good to see you.

So, the fact that they're now dropping this -- what has been a central argument overnight from their lawsuit in Pennsylvania, I mean, what does that tell you?

RICHARD PILDES, CNN ELECTION LAW ANALYST: It tells me one of two things. One is that once they investigated the facts more fully, the facts just weren't there to support this claim, or, secondly, it was always clear that this claim was never going to result in the invalidation of ballots and they may have finally kind of woken up to that reality and realized time is pressing, they need to focus on the claims that might potentially do something for them, and so better to jettison this claim, which never was going to affect ballots that had already been counted.

[11:50:11]

BOLDUAN: Right. And so when you look at kind of this now paired down lawsuit and the allegations in it, in Pennsylvania specifically, is there any chance remaining that President Trump is going to be able to find tens of thousands of votes to overturn the result in Pennsylvania?

PILDES: So, the easy answer to that is no. When I look at these cases, I'm looking at two things. One is, are there plausible legal claims. The second, if there are plausible legal claims, how many ballots could potentially be affected? And in the couple of cases where there might be a plausible legal claim, there's simply aren't enough ballots to be affected, even if those claims were to win.

So there's been nothing in all of these suits from the very beginning that had any realistic chance of overturning the margin as large as the one in Pennsylvania and we just are waiting for the process to play out, but there's no realistic prospect that the number of ballots that would need to be affected are at stake in these cases. BOLDUAN: And now we know that the president has put Rudy Giuliani in charge of kind of the overall strategy of all of these election challenges. The fact that Giuliani is now his lead attorney on this, what does that say about President Trump's case kind of hear just more broadly, Richard?

PILDES: Well, Rudy Giuliani seems to be the attorney for purposes of public press conferences, he is not the attorney in any of the courtrooms, and there's a huge difference between the kinds of claims you can make rhetorically in press conferences and what as when it comes brass tacks and having to prove those in court.

BOLDUAN: Well, that's exactly right. I mean, Rudy Giuliani, just last night, talking about 600,000 votes that should be invalidated in the commonwealth, and they, in court, have offered no evidence of any kind of voter fraud that would lead to that that we've seen so far.

If you take a step back, kind of voting and counting went is going smoothly, challenges without basis in court are being dismissed, even more today is happening. Yet, you still have thousands of people who are protesting Washington over the weekend saying that Trump won and the election was rigged. Is there longer term impact that you're concerned about in what the president is doing here?

PILDES: Yes, absolutely. These claims are not going to change the outcome of the election in court but it is of enormous concern if a significant portion of the president's supporters remain convinced that the election was rigged, that the process was manipulated, that is very damaging potentially for government going forward, for the democracy of the United States.

Both in the immediate short-term and in terms of the Biden administration and resistance that might be mobilized against it, but also in terms of undermining people's confidence in our democratic processes.

We actually ran an incredibly smooth election under extremely difficult circumstances, and part of the tragedy here is that a significant portion of the president's supporters may never believe that the election was, in fact, fair and properly run.

BOLDUAN: Richard, thank you for your expertise.

PILDES: Nice to talk to you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Coming up next, today, United Airlines is launching a program to give rapid COVID tests to transatlantic passengers. Could this lead to an end on restrictions in international travel? What does this mean now? We'll be back.

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[11:55:00]

BOLDUAN: Starting today, United Airlines is offering rapid coronavirus tests to all of its passengers on a flight from Newark, New Jersey to London. Is this a sign of things to come and what does this mean for air travel now?

One of the people set to board is CNN's Richard Quest. He is joining me from Newark International Airport.

So, Richard, walk us through this new protocol by United.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN EDITOR AT LARGE: Well, United found it very successful from San Francisco to Hawaii at avoiding -- allowing passengers to avoid quarantines on the other side. So, they're trying it now with London.

Tonight, in the airport, before we depart, and all the passengers will receive a rapid results COVID test. It's a nasal swab that we are familiar with. Only if you're tested negative can you board the aircraft. The idea being that you can guarantee all passengers are tested negative.

Of course, yes, some will say there could be incubations and this, that and the other, but if you're trying to build confidence with passengers and with other governments like, the U.K. government, Kate, then this is the way forward. Testing is far better than quarantining, which is what something like the U.K. is using.

BOLDUAN: Understandable. And confidence as you get at is basically everything with the airline industry at the moment. What is the current status of how things are going in the travel industry?

QUEST: The second and third wave that's happened in the U.S. along with the appalling conditions elsewhere in the country, I'll be blunt, the industry is on its knees, they can't get up.

Now, the airlines have done a very good job of recapitalizing. So they have billions and billions of dollars in the bank. They're not going out of business, the big carriers, but what they do need is passengers back on the plane, Thanksgiving, Christmas, holiday times. Scott Kirby of United this morning was telling me that reservations are pretty much staggered. They flat-lined because of what's happening.

So these testing measures are the way forward to build confidence and get people flying again.

[12:00:04]

I'll see you in London tomorrow.

BOLDUAN: Sounds good, darling. Thank you so much. Good to see you, Richard.