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Biden Says More People May Die If Trump and GOP Obstruct Transition; Biden Says We Have an Opportunity to Come Out of This Stronger; Biden Says Money Is There for Pandemic Relief. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired November 16, 2020 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENT-ELECT: It does figure in my plan. I've laid in detail for example the legislation passed by the Democratic House calls for immediate $10,000 forgiveness of student loans. It's holding people up. They're in real trouble. They're having to make choices between paying their student loan and paying the rent, those kinds of decisions. It should be done immediately.

In addition to that, as you know, I think that everything from community college straight through to doubling Pell grants, to making sure that we have access to free education for anyone making under $125,000 for four years of college, and there is a program that exists now under the law that forgives student loans for being able to engage in a public service.

I'm going to institute that fundamental change in that so that it's able to be available to everyone that in fact is engaged. It's not being very well managed right now, so I'm going to do all of those things. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Thank you, Mr. President-elect. You just spoke of the dangers of some of the President's continued stone stonewalling of this transition, but it doesn't appear that the President is going to come around any time soon and admit defeat. So what are you going to do? What options do you have to try and ensure that you are ready to go on day one?

BIDEN: Do what every individual organization in the country, from business to labor, Republicans to Democrats, to try to pull together a serious and consistent plan so we're ready on day one, everything from staffing to ultimately naming cabinet members to moving along on coordinating with business and labor. The COVID attack, how we're going to attack COVID, and so it would make it a lot easier if the President were to participate. We have a number of Republicans suggesting that.

The good news here is my colleague is still on the intelligence committee, so she gets the intelligence briefings. I don't anymore. So that is, but there is a number of Republicans calling for that. I am hopeful that the President will be mildly more enlightened before we get to January 20th.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: And what is your message to Republicans who are backing up the President's refusal to concede? You clearly need to work with them going forward.

BIDEN: My message is I will work with you. I understand a lot of your reluctance because of the way the President operates. But I've been in contact with them and will be in contact with more of them as we move along. And if it has to wait until January 20th to get actually to become operational, that's a shame, but maybe that's the only way to get it done. Thank you very much, Mary.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Thank you very much, Mr. President- elect. I want to kind of piggyback off of that. I want to get your thoughts on the President's tweet over the weekend where he first seemed to acknowledge that you won, then he said he won't concede, then he said, I won. How did you interpret that, and at the end of the day, do you want him to concede?

BIDEN: I interpret that as Trumpism. No change in his modus operandi, and I think the pressure will continue to build -- but look, I'm having a lot of meetings with world leaders on the telephone. I cannot get into negotiating with them about things that are going to be done, but they're calling with some degree of enthusiasm, everyone from the Holy Father to Prime Ministers across the globe. And so we're moving along knowing what the outcome will be, and as I said earlier, and I probably shouldn't repeat it, but I find this more embarrassing for the country than debilitating for my ability to get started.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: And then secondly, I want to follow up with you on the vaccine. If the FDA gives emergency authorization to the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine in the coming weeks, will you get vaccinated? And if you're hesitant, why should any American have confidence in the vaccine?

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BIDEN: First of all, we'll see if that comes forward. And, secondly, it's important that people who are in the greatest need get it. I wouldn't hesitate to get the vaccine. But I also want to set an example. But I wouldn't hesitate to get the vaccine if, in fact, Dr. Fauci and these two organizations, whether it's Moderna or Pfizer who have been extremely responsible, conclude that it is safe and able to be done.

Look, the only reason people question the vaccine now is because of Donald Trump. That's the reason why people are questioning the vaccine, because of all the things he says and doesn't say, whether it's truthful, is it not truthful, the exaggerations? I think we're on a clear path now. We're on a clear path with the international community and national leaders and the scientific community have focused on these two vaccines. They appear to be ready for prime time, ready to be used, and if that continues along that road, I would take the vaccine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Thank you. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Thank you, Mr. President-elect. You have

been urging the American public to continue practicing social distancing and wearing a mask, but with cases skyrocketing across the country, do you think that more governors should be closing non- essential businesses and reinstating stay-at-home orders?

BIDEN: Look, it depends on the state. What I failed to mention earlier is the enormous respect I have for Republican -- conservative Republican governors who stepped up and issued mandates for wearing masks. In North Dakota, one of the leaders in this area has been the Republican governor and the Republican governor in Ohio. In addition to the folks who have already been leading, like the governor of Michigan.

I mean, you know, the idea that the President now is existing remaining adviser on COVID is saying that they should resist. What the hell's the matter with these guys? What is the matter with them? Resist.

And you know, every major individual of any consequence in the health field is saying, we can save 100,000 lives just between now and January 21st by wearing these masks. It's going to take a while for the vaccine to be able to be available, distributed and get to people. We're talking about 350 to 400,000 people dying. What are they doing? It's totally irresponsible. Irresponsible.

And so I compliment the governors who've stepped forward, who have been stepping forward, but also the Republican governors who stepped forward. I left out the governor of Utah, very conservative state, Governor of North Dakota, and all the Democratic governors who have been doing it all along.

I mean it's -- I just ask a rhetorical question. Do you guys understand this? Does anybody understand why a governor would turn this into a political statement? It's about patriotism. It's about being patriotic. It's about saving lives for real. This is not hyperbole. It's about being patriotic. And I think you're seeing more and more as this god-awful virus continues to spread almost unabated that we -- that governors are stepping up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: And just following up on that, especially with many states reporting new highs in terms of the daily number of cases and a lot of public health officials sounding the alarm over the holidays, what is your message to people who are considering, for example, getting together with their families and others for Thanksgiving? Would you urge people to reconsider their plans?

BIDEN: Here's what I'd do. Let me tell you what the health experts have said to me. And it's not because I'm unique and President-elect, it's because of my family. They strongly urge that if, in fact, we're going to have Thanksgiving with anyone that we limit it to a maximum, maximum -- they suggest five people -- maximum ten people socially distanced wearing masks, and people who have quarantined. So Jill and I spent this morning, like many of you, trying to figure out, what are we going to do for Thanksgiving? How are we going to do it? And we've narrowed down which family members and that they were tested, recently tested, in 24 hours.

And so, I would strongly urge for the sake -- not just for your sake, for the sake of your children, your mother, your father, your sisters, your brothers, whoever you get together with on Thanksgiving, think about this.

[15:40:00]

There should be no group more than ten people in one room -- I mean inside the homes. That's what they're telling me. They're telling me that, you know, making sure that that's the case. And I have the more potent mask behind this one. I took it off when I came out here, I wear it inside this, that you be masked. It save lives.

And so, look, I just want to make sure that we're able to be together next Thanksgiving, next Christmas. I mean, it is an international crisis. It's an international health crisis. And the idea -- we're at war with the virus. And it is we're at war for real. And all kidding aside I hope all of you, I've watched you all, you all seem to wear masks all the time and the group that follows me -- follows me -- that is assigned to Delaware with me seem to do that. I strongly urge you to do it. There's nothing macho about not wearing a mask.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Thank you, President-elect, Madam Vice President-elect. Your plan -- my mouth gets stuck on my earring. Wait a second. Demonstrating for America.

BIDEN: I watch Jill try to take it off, it's hard, I don't know. Thank god I don't have an earring.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Your plan that you've outlined just now, about a million union jobs, clean energy jobs, investments in HBCUs, those are things we take time. We have a problem with long-term unemployment that's growing fast right now. What would you do right away, specifically, to address jobs that may not return for months, may not return ever, including in communities of color?

BIDEN: What I would do, I would pass the Heroes Act. It has all the money and capacity to take care of each of those things. Now. Now. Not tomorrow. Now. And the idea the President is still playing golf and not doing anything about it is beyond my comprehension. You would at least think he would want to go off on a positive note. But what is he doing?

And there's virtually no discussion. And the Republicans, we're told -- I don't know that it's true -- you may know, Senator, but there's 22 Republicans who say they won't vote for anything. Well, there ought to be at least a dozen of them have the courage to stand up and save lives and jobs now. We should be doing it now.

Keeping those businesses open, providing the PPE, the protective equipment as well as the PPP, the money that would allow people to get funding to keep their businesses open, everything from separation to testing to a whole range of things that allow businesses to open and stay open. That's what the plan was at the beginning.

And by the way, if you notice in the very beginning when they passed the stimulus program, the first two pieces, what happened? Businesses were staying open. And then when they weren't open, they were still able to -- people able to get paid.

But look where they are now. People are running out of unemployment insurance. What are they going to do? 20 million people on the verge of losing their home because they can't make a mortgage payment. We have a larger number that will be kicked out in the street because they can't pay their rent. And, by the way, it's not just the renter, it's the outfit that owns the building. A lot of them aren't multimillionaires, they're running small operations. How can they do it?

This is about keeping Americans afloat. Get them through this pandemic, get them through where they still -- their businesses are able to come back. The money is there. The money is there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: And also on the economic front, as we fight the pandemic, world trade continues and there is great debate over world trade agreements, international trade agreements. It seems that in the last couple of days, 15 countries, Asian Pacific countries have signed onto a new trade deal, the RCEP. Should the United States consider joining that trade agreement?

BIDEN: I've talked with a number of these world leaders, and I told them under the law, I am not able to begin to discuss with them -- there is only one President at a time -- as to who can say what our policy will be.

So I'm reluctant to answer that question now, but here's what I can say. We make up 25 percent of the world's trading capacity, of the economy in the world.

[15:45:00]

We need to be aligned with the other democracies, another 25 percent or more, so that we can set the rules of the road instead of having China and others dictate outcomes because they are the only game in town. And so -- but what I'm on and what I have been asked by world leaders as to what I would do without getting into detail, I've said, but I want you to know there are three things that will happen if I'm elected. One, we're going to invest in American workers and make them more competitive. Number two, we're going to make sure that labor is at the table and environmentalists are at the table in any trade deals we make. I'm not looking for putative fate.

The idea that we are poking our fingers in the eyes of our friends and embracing autocrats makes no sense to me. But I'm reluctant to get into more detail at this moment. I promise you I have a pretty thorough plan and I will be prepared to announce that to you on January 21st.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: You have indicated changes you want to make in U.S. international policy on other fronts, like the Paris climate deal --

BIDEN: Yes, that's a generic notion of rejoining, but I didn't get into detail of what we'll do in that agreement. The same thing with rejoining the World Health Organization.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: But why not here?

BIDEN: Because you're asking me about whether I would join a specific proposal that details which are now only being negotiated among those nations. They require negotiation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Thank you.

BIDEN: Thank you. Appreciate it.

MODERATOR: Thank you, thank you, thank you all so much. Thank you, guys!

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: OK, so let's dive right in. We've been talking -- we've been listening to the President-elect there. And Gloria Borger, I want to talk to you first, because to me the line that really resonated I think with me, and I a lot of Americans watching, was when Biden said more people may die if we don't coordinate, right.

This all has to do, of course, with coronavirus and the current administration's unwillingness to give them access to the, you know, information they need in order to not, you know, be behind come January 20th. What did you make of the President-elect's message?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, I think it was very clear and very direct, which is that we need to get the delivery system in place for the vaccines. As he said, quoting his own chief of staff, you know, vaccines don't save lives, vaccinations save lives. And so he said, look, if we can't do this, we need to be able to share that with you right now, and he said, I was hoping the President would become mildly more enlightened on this, and he kind of said it in a way that you know he probably does not expect him to.

And there was one more thing also, which I think he sort of let it be known that while he's not happy with Senate Republicans, he said that he understands that a lot of your re-election depends on the way the President operates, and so he understands why they may be reluctant to come out and call him President-elect. And he called it a shame.

But what he was effectively saying is, you know, I know that the President will be out to get you if you say anything about me, so I get it. He didn't like it, but he said he understood it as a way of showing their lack of courage as well.

BALDWIN: Stay with me, Gloria. I want to bring in Dr. Leana Wen who's also been listening. And, you know, we should just preface this as the President-elect did, saying he had been in touch and this meeting with business leaders and labor leaders just in terms of economic recovery in the months to come. And I know you really want to talk about how public health is the

pathway to economic recovery, number one, and also just what he said and touting the possibility, right, of some really effective vaccines in the form of Pfizer and Moderna. And how, you know, he was asked, would you take the vaccine? He says if Fauci and the docs give it the OK, then yes.

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Yes, I think that this meeting today was so important, Brooke, because for so long this conversation has been framed by President Trump as somehow public health is the enemy of the economy, that it's Democrats and doctors who want to shut everything down and Republicans want to open the economy.

And I think in this conversation today, President-elect Biden is making clear that public health needs to work hand in hand with the economy, that containing the virus is something that business leaders also agree is key to get the economy back on track.

[15:50:00]

And I think the comment about the vaccine is so important. I mean it is great news that we got today about the Moderna vaccine being almost 95 percent effective, at least in their preliminary studies in preventing infection, but we have to get to the point of having vaccinations into people's arms.

And so the plea to be really careful over Thanksgiving, I would even go further that President-elect Biden is saying do not get together indoors with people who are outside of your immediate household right now and that includes over Thanksgiving. We have a difficult winter ahead but we have to get through it in order to get to the spring when a vaccine may well be here.

BALDWIN: I was thinking of you as the President-elect was talking about, you know, how he and his wife were sitting this morning and making their plans and he was saying, OK, you know the experts are saying ten people inside, get your test , make sure you've quarantined. And I thought, Dr. Wen is going to say differently because we talked, you know, just last week about you wrote in "The Washington Post." And so just for everyone watching as you are one of those experts, what is your advice for people in terms of numbers around the Thanksgiving table next Thursday?

WEN: So it's not so much a total number but rather how many people are in your immediate household, the people that you live with who are currently in your pandemic bubble. If you are already in a bubble with one other family and it's ten people total, that's fine. Even if it's 20 people total. If they're in your bubble, that is fine. But do not see people indoors who are not in your immediate household or in your pandemic bubble.

And that's because of how much this virus is surging all across the country. This is not the time for us to take any risks at all because there is just so much virus. There is coronavirus rampant all across the country. The entire U.S. is a hot spot of infection. We have to get through this. We can celebrate Thanksgiving in July if we want but let's survive until then.

BALDWIN: All right, Dr. Wen, thank you so much. And Arlette Saenz she's been covering the Biden transition, she was in the room there, he took a lot of questions, obviously. We in the media are grateful for opportunities like these. And you and I have talked about how he's projecting an optimistic message, you know, lowering the temperature but again he said, very seriously, more people may die if team Biden can't coordinator with team Trump, what did you think of what he had to say?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brooke, it was definitely a bit of a more aggressive posture than the previous week, when Biden talked about the need to have calm and patience over this transition process. But he was very blunt in his assessment that right now if the transition team is unable to coordinate with the Trump administration on issues like the coronavirus vaccine that is going to put Americans' lives in jeopardy.

We heard his incoming chief of staff Ron Klain echo something similar yesterday when he expressed frustration over the fact that the transition team can't speak with HHS officials when it comes to the distribution plans for that vaccine. So Biden, today, really kind of stepping up his game and laying out the stakes of what is at stake right now if the transition team is not coordinating with the outgoing Trump administration.

We have seen Biden over the past week really project those calm tones and saying that this is a process that will play out but he is making it very clear right now that there are lives on the line when it comes to the fact that they are unable to coordinate with the Trump administration.

BALDWIN: Arlette, thank you. And Kaitlan Collins, let me pivot to you over at the White House. Because again hearing Biden say, I'm hoping the President will be mildly more enlightened before we get to January 20th. And he said it in a way that I don't think he's thinking that Trump's getting more enlightened. So on the subject of enlightenment, Kaitlan, what are the chances the President concedes?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I mean the President has told people he's not going to concede, he just said yesterday, I'm not conceding anything when people realized he was finally acknowledging for the first time that Joe Biden has won this election. And so you're seeing how it's making very awkward situations for the Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar, you know, this morning was saying they have not had any contact with Biden's team. They won't until GSA gives them the formal go ahead.

And people like Dr. Anthony Fauci have said that's going to cause problems if there's not a smooth transition when it comes to the rollout of the vaccine. And so you saw new urgency from Joe Biden there talking about whether or not, how this transition is going to go. But also, Brooke, he said it's more embarrassing than it is debilitating the way that the President is blocking the Biden team from getting its access to start this transition. And one really remarkable point that he made was that the Vice

President-elect Senator Harris is still getting her briefings, of course, because of her position as a Senator. He's saying she's still being read in on intelligence that he does not have access to. That's incredibly notable and that is not a power dynamic that you often see between a ticket that has just won.

Vice President Mike Pence wasn't getting briefings that the President didn't have access to in their period while they were waiting to come into office. And so I thought that was incredibly notable just to see how he framed that and how part of it is getting access and part is not.

[15:55:03]

The other notable thing I think Joe Biden said was calling for stimulus to happen now in this lame duck period, not to wait until January because, of course, they know that that could affect them. Any little bit of stimulus that could happen now would make it an easier transition for them to try to have the economy recover which obviously was the point of these remarks today.

And so we'll see how people on Capitol Hill respond to that if there's actually any agreement. Right now, of course, we know that there has been none. But the now President-elect is calling on stimulus to happen right now and not wait until he takes office in January.

BALDWIN: And as he called for that, another dig at the President that he's been playing golf he says and has done nothing about it.

COLLINS: Yes.

BALDWIN: Kaitlan, thank you so much. And Julia Chatterley, to you, CNN business anchor, this whole thing was about economic recovery. Talk to those labor leaders, business leaders, wants to get the economy basically rocking and rolling as soon as possible. What was your takeaway from listening to the President-elect?

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR: Brooke, I think the eureka moment for me was a national COVID strategy is not the enemy of the economy or economic recovery. They go hand in hand. You know, music to my ears when you're talking about scaled-up testing, when you're talking about a national mask wearing mandate.

Fine. That is remit of the governors but just getting the messaging right from the President-elect and top down here is so critical for businesses of all shapes and sizes' and also for workers.

The other fact, of course, as Kaitlan was saying there, critical the fact that he's saying, look, do a deal now. Why doesn't the President want to have some victory as he leaves the White House here? He has to now talk to the Democrats and say, look, even if this lame duck period, what's feasible here? Never mind the Republicans.

And then I think we can talk very quickly medium, longer term strategy, great to be talking about green energy, to talk about beefing up the social security nets and the safety nets in this country. This is all important. Infrastructure spending too.

A leaf out of Donald Trump's book as well, as far as buying America and making sure that a lot of the production that we see happens in America. I think also pivots and very important as well but, of course, that comes down to the politics of what's possible and whether or not the Republicans hold the balance o the power in the Senate. He didn't address that issue going forward but in the short term, the messaging is right here on COVID and that's critical to the economy.

BALDWIN: To that point, thank you so much, Julia. Gloria Borger, what is possible for people watching at home, for people listening to this conversation, you know, needing the assurances that help is on the way, not understanding why the folks on the left and the folks on the right aren't getting together to pump something into the economy so that, you know, people can get through this tough pandemic winter, economically speaking? Where are the members of Congress on this?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, look, right now, I think the Republicans in the Senate and don't forget it's the Republicans in the Senate who are standing in the way. The House has passed measures. They're looking to the President for leadership. The President has said time and time again pass a big stimulus package, some of them say, OK. Most of them say that is not going to sit with my constituents.

So the Republicans have to decide right now where they are on this and a lot of them don't want to cross the President. But he keeps changing his mind. First, he says he wants a big stimulus bill, then he doesn't want any stimulus bill and we don't know what exactly he wants to do.

One point about Joe Biden, though, I think his tone today was kind of incredulous. He was saying at one point, you know, in referring to Dr. Scott Atlas who called for people in Michigan to rise up against new COVID-19 measures, he said, what the hell are these guys thinking, right? Something like that. He just seems to say you at least think he wants to go off on a positive note. But he seems to not be able to understand what Donald Trump is thinking right now and I think he's speaking for a lot of us.

BALDWIN: He is incredulous. It is striking to Arlette, you know, Arlette was noting just from last week it's going to be OK. We got this. Like transition, we don't need to be too aggressive and now to the tone we've heard today. We've 65 days to go. I just think it's really noteworthy how, you know, again the embarrassing line, wouldn't he want to do something. He is out golfing. Exactly. I got 40 seconds. Just Gloria, take me to the end and just -- with everything that has happened now with the withdrawals, with Iraq and Afghanistan, and Trump, it's just 65 days to go.

BORGER: I think the President's playing out a string and he's not sure how the show -- he is the star of is going to end but he always knows, Brooke, that he has to be the star no matter what. And I think that's what he's figuring out right now. He's got to leave the stage but he still wants to be the star. How does he do it? BALDWIN: You're so right. Gloria, thank you.

BORGER: Thanks, Brooke.